To Hell In A Hand Basket

[Dusty Chalk]

No, I was assuming that their work I hadn't seen was art. Still an audience of one.

Yeah, but you know what "assuming" does, don't you? It makes an ass out of u and ming.

Go back and read Webster's definition of art again. The idea that something the prokoves ANY emotional response (as opposed to a positive one) is art is a fairly recent spin on the meaning of art . . . and one that I don't really buy into. Art doesn't piss you off, it doesn't make you angry or depressed.

Some of my most favourite music is supremely depressing. Gorgeous, beautiful, pleasing...depressing.

I guess where I was coming from on that statement was censorship. The law about censorship says something to the effect of "...a work of art must have some social redeeming value..." -- I never liked that definition, so I was just trying my hand at something else -- something more vague, but not having to abide by social values. I guess it didn't work, but I think I was closer to the mark than they were.

That goes both ways dood! It's called debate. Sure, I'm trying to get you to see it from a perspective that you normally don't see it from. I'm not so much looking to change your mind as much as get you to acknowledge that there are other ways of looking at it other than the common conceptions that you adhere to.

Well, just for the record, I was trying to change your mind. There's a difference between arguing fact and arguing opinion. The latter is pointless, and I usually don't go there.

There's a grey middle ground that people often tread, and that's to try to convey fact as opinion or vice versa. I saw you...well, someone...trying to convey "rap is not music"...as opinion, and I disagree that it is a matter of opinion. It is my belief (not the same as an opinion) that what is and is not music, and what is or is not art, is not a matter of opinion.

Obviously, we disagree on this point.

Not to say I wasn't having some fun along the way. At this point, my expectations to change your mind are low...miniscule...non-existent. And it's no hair off my back either way.

Jack seems to believe that it is a matter of religion with me. Hmm...the analogy is not that far off. But let me turn it around on you, Jack. Murder. This is a matter of right and wrong, yes? This is a matter of definition (as well as many other things) possibly even religion (a lot of people base the fact that murder is wrong on That Commandment), not of opinion, wouldn't you agree? At least, in 90% of the non-borderline cases. My analogy is that sometimes, whether it appears to be religious-based or not, sometimes, matters are worth arguing. To use the old camel's-nose-under-the-tent-flap theory would be wrong in this case -- just because 10% (or whatever the number is, I'm making it up anyway) of the cases are borderline, doesn't mean that the definition of "murder" isn't still some "absolute".

The analogy would be that someone says that whether or not a particular ritual is right or wrong is a matter of opinion. It might be in some cases, but in the case of murder, that's got nothing to do with it.

Sorry, that sounds pretty extreme, to compare "rap is not music" with "ritual is not murder", but I think the analogy part holds.