Guitar buying advice

[Mike Anderson]

Screw the GC salesmen. (Sorry, I should have warned you about them.)

I wouldn't buy a guitar at Guitar Center to save my life. Should you go there again, just make it clear that you only want to try out a specific guitar or amp, and leave your wallet at home. You're not there to buy, only to get a sense of what it is you want.

Believe it or not, it's quite possible to get a fairly inexpensive rig that sounds good and plays well. You have to be smart about it, and try out lots of guitars, but it can be done. Ignore whatever the salesman tells you and go with your ears and hands (or your son's ears and hands, since he's the one who knows how it should sound and whether it's comfortable.)

[dean_martin]

I've seen the cheap Vox amps and I was not impressed. They're certainly not the same quality of Vox that Hendrix played through.

For a decent practice amp with ok built-in digital effects (overdrive/distortion, delay, reverb,flange) give the small Marshall amps a try. I bought my son one 2 or 3 Christmases ago. He uses it with his Epiphone LP100 (the same model you mentioned) and his Ibanez acoustic-electric. The amp has a cd player input. We use it to mic vocals when my other son, the drummer, gets his band together for practice. It's a handy-dandy device that sounds good for the money. Here's a link from Musician's Friend - http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/483187/

You can get a model without the effects for less money, but you might spend more money on effects boxes later. IMO, the bigger, nicer amp with add-on effects pedals, etc. comes later when he has an idea of the tone he wants. (Also, Peavy amps seem to be popular for practice amps, but I haven't tried one.)

Finally, I'm a Fender man (Jazzmaster, Mustang, Princeton Reverb tube amp), but I was intrigued with the Epiphone Dot Arch Top semi-hollowbody. I tried one, but didn't like the feel of the neck - I thought the fretboard had sharp edges that were uncomfortable. As far as Fender goes, I'm surprised by the number of working musicians who use Strat copies from other manufacturers - they must be doing something right for much less money. The Strat and Strat copies are popular because of the variety of tones you can get without any fuss. I can't recommend a manufacturer for a Strat copy, but that might be something to look in to. You might be able to get better quality with another manufacturer as opposed to going with a Squier or even a Mexican Fender. In the heirarchy of Fender, US-made and Japan-made are a close 1, 2 with Mexico and Korea at the bottom. You'll pay through the nose for a US made Fender. IMO, the Japan-made Fenders represent the best value - my Jazzmaster is an MIJ.

[ToddL]

Jim
I think you mentioned you are near the TO area, if so go to Long and Mquade (this may be spelt wrong) we don't have the music superstores that the American's have but this is close. Also you can find some really nice Mexican Strats that are a lot cheaper than the US one's, the nice ones are about a 1 in 20 but they are out there because of inconsistancies in Mexican production that sometimes works out well.

[Jim Clark]

Jim
I think you mentioned you are near the TO area, if so go to Long and Mquade (this may be spelt wrong) we don't have the music superstores that the American's have but this is close. Also you can find some really nice Mexican Strats that are a lot cheaper than the US one's, the nice ones are about a 1 in 20 but they are out there because of inconsistancies in Mexican production that sometimes works out well.

Thanks for the replies, one and all. Not much time right now but wanted to acknowledge the continued replies.

Todd, you lost me which really isn't all that hard to do. I live in Lenexa, a suburb of Kansas City. Not really sure what the TO area is, unless that's Topeka? If so I'll see what I can do to check out that store. Maybe they have an online presence. Thanks much.

Regards,
jc

[ToddL]

Sorry I had you mixed up with another member, in that case check guitar center.

[MindGoneHaywire]

Jim...


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/..._tid=topseller


I own a Japanese Jazzmaster myself & while most people will insist that the American-mades are better, only the truest of snobs will insist that the Japanese issues are not as good. Yes, they're a cut above the Mexican & Korean models. But that's something that I'm not sure is going to matter all that much to a beginner. Really.

Fender may not be what yr kid wants in terms of tone, playability, etc. But I can't see what good spending more than this is going to accomplish for a beginner. I disagree with the notion of thinking about resale value, or that whether or not interest will be retained has anything to do with how good the gear is. If you want to play, you'll play on a jail guitar, on a guitar that looks like Willie Nelson's with the hole in it. My first acoustic was a no-name pos that I played into the ground for 10 years until I got an Ovation that I still own; my first electric was a no-name pos that I played the crap out of for 6 years until I picked up my first name guitar, a Rickenbacker I later traded for my Jazzmaster. And my first bass was a Univox sort of made to look like a Hofner violin bass, with the body made out of plastic. And the Precision I've been using for nearly a decade? Korean.

Unless you get unlucky & end up with a complete pos I don't think he'll notice much. When you're learning how to play an instrument is not the time when a true player is going to get caught up in the quality of the instrument, so long as it's above the relatively low level required for learning & early-stage playing. As for the amp...a tube amp for a beginner? I don't see why. A kid is going to be more concerned with portability than sound quality, in my estimation. If it doesn't sound like complete poopy, why get tubes that insure that the amp has to be treated better than one would reasonably expect a 14-year old to treat this? Someone might counter that even a beginner should learn how to treat gear properly, but I know plenty of long-time players who didn't necessarily follow this as beginners & may not have grown into it if they hadn't had the flexibility to knock the thing around--or at least not feel like they've trashed a valuable antique if it accidentally falls on the floor.

I struggled with inferior gear for years when I was learning because I knew that if I stuck with it that one day it'd warrant acquiring the better gear that so many insisted I should be learning on. I didn't get their all-knowing tone then, and I don't get it now, either. I'm not saying you shouldn't spend a few hundred dollars & get a more credible match, but I will say that unless you think this is going to be a lifelong passion, I'm not sure I see the point. You could pick him up a better gtr in a year, a better amp the year after that. There's plenty of birthdays & Xmas's in the future, right? If he wants to be a player, really wants to be a player, he'll do what he has to do. The one area where I wouldn't skimp at this stage of the game is not the electronics, but the ability of the thing to stay in tune. I believe you'll do better in that area at this price point with a Fender or Squire than with a Gibson or Epiphone, but others may see it differently. My recommendation in this area is because, if the kid has an ear. he'll hear it if the thing can't stay in tune, and that's a #1 frustration-builder, way more so than an inferior tone. And even on a practice amp you can work to improve the tone with a pedal or two down the road. But one of the reasons I was able to stick with my inferior learning instruments was that they stayed in tune. Which was something I didn't realize the importance of until I started using my Rickenbacker, which never did, and was therefore unplayable in spite of how cool it looked & even sounded. So...it's going to be a matter of priorities. If getting something like a PRS makes more sense, go for it...but I'd never have thought of one of those as a guitar for a beginner.

[GMichael]

Jim...
Fender may not be what yr kid wants in terms of tone, playability, etc. .

Wow, back in the 70's, if you didn't own a Straticaster you weren't cool. I got my Epiphone because I couldn't aford a Fender. Even when I got the Steinburger there were a few who would ask me why I didn't get a Strat.

[Mike Anderson]

Jim...


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/..._tid=topseller

Jim, just so you know, I think Musician's Friend is now owned by Guitar Center.

But that's something that I'm not sure is going to matter all that much to a beginner. Really.

Fender may not be what yr kid wants in terms of tone, playability, etc. But I can't see what good spending more than this is going to accomplish for a beginner.

I have to disagree. If you want your kid to keep it up, it seems to me you'd want to make the experience as enjoyable as possible. This doesn't mean you need to spend a lot of money, but it means you should spend the time to find a guitar that's comfortable to play and sounds good to him.

Now maybe he's so driven that he'll play a string on a log, but why set up obstacles if you don't have to.

If getting something like a PRS makes more sense, go for it...but I'd never have thought of one of those as a guitar for a beginner.

The Korean PRS's most certainly are beginner's guitars. The U.S. models most certainly are not!

[MindGoneHaywire]

Well, I think Jim was looking for a range of opinions, looks like he got a pretty wide range. I haven't had anything but positive experiences with Guitar Center, so I'm not going to agree with those bashing them. After years with little alternative to West 48th St., they were a breath of fresh air in these parts. In Guitar Center I made it clear I wasn't interested in sales talk OR 48th St. attitude. That's something that may be unique to NYC, LA, Nashville, I don't know. All I know is it was always annoying as hell, and at GC I was able to just go in & get what I wanted. But then I've never been the type to spend much time in a store. I've never had to take much time with an instrument to know whether or not it's what I want. Either it's playable, or it's not. Either it's comfortable, or it's not. It's going to sound a lot better through whatever amp they're going to plug it into, so you ask them to plug it into something that's as close to what you'll be hearing it through as possible. Most players will probably disagree with me on this stuff, but that's been my experience. I loathe being in the stores anyway, surrounded by hackers who can't find a captive audience any other way. But I've never had to return a guitar, so I've never found it necessary to test-drive it any more than I was comfortable with. Most people will probably want to take more time then me. I think letting someone know you just don't want to hear any sales talk will work as well as anything else. If a hard sell is the main complaint against GC, it's something that's never affected me. And since outfits like Sam Ash have had their in-store selection reportedly shaped at various times by personal disputes between company execs & vendors...well, outside of vintage gear, which is of course extremely expensive, I haven't seen too many mom'n'pops that have the selection of twangers GC can put out on their walls.

I maintain that if the kid really wants to be a player, he'll play on anything. If he started on an acoustic, moving to electric makes a much bigger difference than the difference between a mediocre approximation of a Les Paul vs. a mediocre approximation of a Fender. However, a Squire is probably going to be more comfortable to play sitting down, than a Les Paul. The guitars these things are based on were designed for the comfort of the player more than anything Les Paul ever put his name on, in my estimation. And I have this weird thing where, if you're going to play a Les Paul, it should be the heavy guitar he intended it to be, not some facsimile intended for beginners. I don't think of this guitar as being something geared towards beginners. But hey, that's just me. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Les Pauls for what they are. But they're serious pieces of wood for serious players, in my book--and they're heavy as lead. Leo Fender took quite a bit of scorn 50 years ago, but he did the world a big favor by putting something out there that bridged the gap between the great Les Paul (and other) guitars, and the cheap junk sold in department stores, like the Airlines, Harmony Rockets, Kay, stuff like that. As inferior as the Mexican & Korean models may be, I think there's a playability on those instruments that make them beginner-friendly. I guess someone else might see an obstacle there, but to me they're just not likely to dissuade anybody from becoming a player if they have the ability & the desire, and not necessarily in that order. But hey, if the kid wants the Epiphone Les Paul, or if it makes more sense, go for it! But, assuming that at least some practice time is going to be spent sitting down, I think most would disagree that a Les Paul-type instrument is going to be more comfortable than a Fender. Not all, of course. Everyone is different. But I hardly think a Squire constitutes putting an unnecessary obstacle in the way of a beginner.

A more arguable point is the issue of identity: an Ibanez--you mentioned a starter pack--is considered to be a heavy metal guitar, for the most part. Les Pauls, if not used for jazz, are closely associated with people like Ace Frehley, Slash, etc. Fenders are more neutral; if yr kid is very specific about what he likes & what style he wants to play, then you know which direction to go in. If he likes to play a lot of different kinds of things, I do think it's easier to get there with a more versatile instrument like a Strat, which I've never liked personally but always viewed as a good option for a starter. I do think it allows players to grow into an identity more so than the other types, since you can add effects that can approximate those, and it works better than, say, using a Les Paul to play surf music. That's not to say that you can't, of course, but I do think this is something to keep in mind, and another reason why I mention it as a good all-around choice for yr situation. But then I'm a big fan of single-coil versatility. I like the idea of a more advanced player getting his sound with as little processing as possible, and most of the players I've played with have been sticklers in this regard. Personally I love the sound of a single-coil guitar with an overdrive pedal. But...some like distortion instead! Others prefer those DOD "Grunge" pedals; then of course some people are partial to chorus...or a flanger...or a particular flavor of reverb. And then there are zoom units, and all other sorts of MIDI contraptions. I recall being at a party some years ago where someone had a zoom unit, and they were having a good time making the thing sound like all sorts of things. Eventually the guitar made its way into the hands of a friend of mine, who asked, 'can you make this sound like...a guitar?

Much like the idea of learning on an acoustic before moving on to an electric, I say that even a kid who's hell-bent on making one heck of a racket with a guitar that's shaped like an ornate medieval weapon is liable to benefit from the ability to achieve a reasonably decent clean tone while acquiring some fundamentals. And outside of a specialty item like a Rickenbacker, you can get a much better result dirtying up a good clean sound than you can cleaning up a good dirty sound...in other words, maybe one can't make a Fender going through a Fender sound like a Gibson going through a Marshall...but they can come a lot closer, with the right tools, than one can trying to make a Gibson through a Marshall, sound anything like a Fender...but all this is just player bias. It may not have any bearing on what you're going for here.

As for PRS...don't know much about them, didn't know they made beginner models. This could be appealing in being somewhere between the Gibsons & the Fenders in terms of some of the aspects I'm thinking about. When are you going to pull the trigger on this purchase, anyway? Couple weeks?

[Mike Anderson]

I haven't had anything but positive experiences with Guitar Center, so I'm not going to agree with those bashing them.

Apparently Jim didn't share your experience!

I've never had to take much time with an instrument to know whether or not it's what I want. Either it's playable, or it's not. Either it's comfortable, or it's not.

As an experienced player, I can pick up a guitar and size up the instrument in less than a minute. A less experienced player will need to spend more time with it.

As I mentioned earlier, when I first started playing electric, I had a guitar with a very thin neck. Because I had large hands, I would cramp up - but only after playing for 30 minutes or so. This is a common problem.

Because of my experience, I know now that I need a large, thick neck. But there's no way I would have known the guitar wasn't right for me after picking it up and playing it for a minute or two.

outside of vintage gear, which is of course extremely expensive, I haven't seen too many mom'n'pops that have the selection of twangers GC can put out on their walls.

Where I live, that's just not true. For example, a place like Subway guitars:

http://www.fatdawg.com/

They have more guitars than you could shake a stick at, and they aren't all big $$ axes, not by a long shot.

And I have this weird thing where, if you're going to play a Les Paul, it should be the heavy guitar he intended it to be, not some facsimile intended for beginners.

Depends. If what you want is the sound of a Les Paul, you do NOT necessarily need to hang a brick around your neck. The same sound can be had in a lighter, more comfortable guitar.

I do think it's easier to get there with a more versatile instrument like a Strat

Again, I have to disagree. I have never, but never been able to get a good fat Les Paul-type sound out of a single coil Fender-type guitar. But I can routinely get a shimmering clean Fender-type sound out of a Les Paul type guitar (usually using split coil or P-90 style pickups).

Much like the idea of learning on an acoustic before moving on to an electric

I agree with this. I learned on acoustic, and played it for several years before I bought an electric.

As for PRS...don't know much about them, didn't know they made beginner models. This could be appealing in being somewhere between the Gibsons & the Fenders in terms of some of the aspects I'm thinking about.

This is definitely true of the US models, but I don't know enough about the Koreans to say so for them.

[Jim Clark]

Being a non musical sort, this has been an interesting experience. My younger brother is a professional musician but he lives 200 miles away and hasn't been much help. One thing I've learned for certain is that guitars are a very personal item for the musicians that play them. I suspect that's true in just about every endeavor be it golf clubs for the serious player or motorcycle for an experienced rider. I was not necessarily prepared for such a wide array of opinions with guitars but that comes only from my own ignorance, which has faded only the smallest bit. You guys do have some really cool looking guitars and the pride in ownership is obvious and probably well deserved.

This thread has been a trip. In the beginning I was really hoping for replies from J and Swish since I've "known" them for many, many years now. It's been great to get such thoughtful replies from Mike, Nabstentia, GMicheal, Kex, and anyone else I'm temporarily spacing as well, I consider those as an unexpected bonus.

J- Whatever I end up with will be purchased in time for Christmas. It's way more than we spend for birthdays and truthfully, more than we will want to spend for Christmas at this point. If he was an only child it would be a different story, but he's not. We have to preserve some semblance of fairness here. He will get some other things as well, but this is the big one. As of right now, he's not excited about Fender product. I honestly don't know why but before it's all said and done, he will sit down and play the model you suggested. I don't want to be too pushy here, it's kind of like him telling me what kind of speakers to buy, it just won't work.

As things stand right now we are really still deciding what road to take and we're going to let Mason make the decision. For the guitar we are willing to spend 300.00 which will cover the Epiphone Les Paul 100 (or Fender, or whatever). He does have interest in the 500 Les Paul Standard he played at Guitar Center. Basically he's needing to decide if he wants to kick in 200 bucks for the difference. Not really very Christmasy of us but if it gets him the guitar he wants it seems to me to be our best option. He still wants to play the import PRS at the local Guitar Source where he takes lessons. He figures if 500 guitars are in play, he wants to try those as well since his teacher made the recomendation. I tend to agree. My best guess is that he'll take the 100 and be thrilled despite the fact that the GC guy implied gently that it was a POS. He's not the greedy sort at all which is why his mother and I really want him to be happy with whatever he ends up with.

Regards,
jc

[Mike Anderson]

^^^ Sounds like a great kid.

Keep in mind that for any given price, you can always optimize the quality of your buy -- even if you've already selected a particular model.

Your son needs to understand that there is a great deal of variation from guitar to guitar, even if they're the same model. There are variances that come about in the construction process. The wood varies in density and makeup. One Les Paul might weigh 11 lbs, while another of the exact some model weighs only 8 lbs.

All these things affect the sound and playability of the guitar. This is especially true of cheaper guitars.

That's why it's important to try a large number. Even if he knows he wants Model X, he should pick up a whole bunch of X's and play them each before selecting one. Play them without plugging them into the amp. A good electric will resonate and ring out in tone, vaguely resembling an acoustic.

Also, he should play all notes on the fretboard and let them ring as long as possible. Many cheaper guitars have "dead notes". Certain notes will not sustain; once you pluck the string, the note will die out in a second or two no matter how hard you try to sustain it. Obviously, you want to avoid this.

Finally, keep in mind that a place like Guitar Center will often set up the guitar with very low action (the strings close to the fretboard). That makes it easier to play since you don't have to press down as hard on the strings. However, it also affects the tone of the guitar. Higher action will give you better sustain and clarity in the notes, and fret buzz is not a problem. Since he already plays an acoustic, this should not be a problem for him. Thus it would be preferable if he could go somewhere where he can try out the guitars when they are properly set up.

[Dusty Chalk]

I should also mention that the reviews on Harmony Central are what turned me towards my Steinberger Spirit GT-Pro.

You may want to look over there.

[MindGoneHaywire]

>My best guess is that he'll take the 100 and be thrilled despite the fact that the GC guy implied gently that it was a POS.

Probably the best move. While I find that a budget Fender is a closer approximation to the real thing than a budget Gibson...if he has no interest in it, then that's probably the option that makes the most sense. If he doesn't like it he can always pick up something else down the road, and he certainly will if he sticks with it. The PRS may offer better value, but unless he's sure he's going to stick with it, he may want to hold off putting any money down at this point, at all. One way or another, it looks like you're going about this soundly.

I enjoy guitar discussions every once in awhile, & I wouldn't mind continuing this one, but it'll have to be later. There is one point that Mike made I'd like to respond to, though:

>All these things affect the sound and playability of the guitar. This is especially true of cheaper guitars.

The things referred to, weight, variances in construction, etc...this is all true. Quality controls only go so far. But I put things in a slightly different perspective with stuff like this: unless the kid is into jazz or maybe stuff like Steely Dan, some--a lot--of those differences may only be of minimal importance. Most 14-year-olds like to make a racket in the garage. Instruments like PRS have always struck me as being for players who've gotten that sort of thing out of their system (and some people never do). Of course, the marketplace changes all the time, so it may well be in vogue for kids to play gtrs like those, and I wouldn't know. But my point is that while it is of course good to keep that sort of advice in mind, its importance is going to vary at least as much depending on what type of player you're talking about, and what he or she is going to be doing.

Some of the other stuff I'll try to get back to later...best of luck, in any case, of course!

[pelly3s]

what i would do is take him to a music store and put a ton of different guitars into his hands and see what he is more comfortable with.... and definately think of going used. I took my cousin to buy a new guitar and i had him play over 50 different ones before making his mind up

[Mike Anderson]

Most 14-year-olds like to make a racket in the garage.

Perhaps. But he won't be 14 for long.

Believe it or not, I bought my first electric guitar when I was 14 too. In fact I paid $300 for it.

I still have it. By now it's worth well over $1,000; but I'll never sell it!

[3-LockBox]

My son Dylan is a very practical 11 year old who likes to keep his room clean, mow our lawn (push mower) and work with his Papa, doing landscaping on a small scale (He can operate a small Kabota tractor). He worked all summer long and saved his money to buy an X-Box. You and I are lucky. But I do know a little about what you're going through.

When my currently useless step-son was around that age (12), he wanted an acoustic guitar. My wife will never go into a music store again without me. Not that I know jack about guitars, but the salesdude pulled the same crap with her. We wound up spending a few hundred dollars on a youth-sized acoustic guitar (I know I could spend much more than that) that he got bored with in about two months. Never touched it again. But when we were shopping for it, no way in hell was he going to accept anything under 100 bucks. (and he's still like that)

Its ok to buy down for now. If he really wants to learn to play, he'll tear-it-up with anything he gets his hands on. If he really 'shines' on the thing, then maybe you guys can spend the better part of a year or two saving-up and then step up to a better guitar. But if the guitar doesn't remain a pashion of his, and he tires of it, then you don't have a $500 or $600 doorstop setting in his bedroom.

Lots and lots of luck, Jim. You're a good dad.

3LB

[Jim Clark]

FWIW, I bought an amp. I went with this one - http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/483187/ that Dean Martin recomended. Discounted new is 169.00 I found it used for 84.00 and other than a nick on the lower right front of the cabinet it looks new. Oh, yeah, it works! Went with this because of all the amps I saw, it was the only one recomended that I found used and was portable enough for my son. He will crate this thing over to his friend's house since that's where the drum set is. I really liked the Vox, but in the end it was too big to be really all that portable unless I drive him all the time, and I'd rather not. I think it will be more than adequate for a starter amp.

Got a line on a guitar that I'm off to see now. It's one of those things that despite all of the advice, I'm thinking I'm going to take a chance on

Regards,
jc

[Mike Anderson]

^^^ I had one of those amps, used it for a practice amp. It's got a cool little sound, good score.

I don't know whether it'll put out enough volume to cover a drum set though. Definitely not if you throw a bass and vocals into the mix.

[Jim Clark]

Now that I've finally figured out how to get pics from the camera into the PC I figured I'd upload pics of the final result. In the end I found a used Epiphone Les Paul Standard with a hard case for 400.00 at a pawn shop. No nicks, no scratches, no nothing. It was a tough call but for the money, it's hands down the best looking guitar we saw through the whole ordeal. It's actually quite beautiful and the pics don't really do it justice. I'm not so good at taking them and I probably crunched the jpegs too small but you'll get the ideal. The guys at the guitar shop where we took it to have it restrung and polished gushed over it. The over the top comments made us feel very confident in our choice. Nobody could believe that we only paid 400.00 for it. A bit more than we had planned to spend but the grandparents are going in on it and Mason loved it, so what the L. It'll be a keeper first guitar and should get them by nicely over the next couple of years.

Thanks for all of the advice and suggestions.

jc

[Mike Anderson]

That's a beautiful guitar, congratulations! That deep cherry red with a flame top has always been one of my favorite looks.

Your son is lucky to have such a thoughtful father.

[Swish]

Now that I've finally figured out how to get pics from the camera into the PC I figured I'd upload pics of the final result. In the end I found a used Epiphone Les Paul Standard with a hard case for 400.00 at a pawn shop. No nicks, no scratches, no nothing. It was a tough call but for the money, it's hands down the best looking guitar we saw through the whole ordeal. It's actually quite beautiful and the pics don't really do it justice. I'm not so good at taking them and I probably crunched the jpegs too small but you'll get the ideal. The guys at the guitar shop where we took it to have it restrung and polished gushed over it. The over the top comments made us feel very confident in our choice. Nobody could believe that we only paid 400.00 for it. A bit more than we had planned to spend but the grandparents are going in on it and Mason loved it, so what the L. It'll be a keeper first guitar and should get them by nicely over the next couple of years.

Thanks for all of the advice and suggestions.

jc

What amp did you settle on by the way?

Swish

[Jim Clark]

What amp did you settle on by the way?

Swish

This one: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/483187/

84.00 at another pawn shop. I know it's not going to be loud enough for gigs but I figure he really should learn how to play before we worry about that. Wish all guitarist's had the same philosphy.

And BTW, what's a flame top? I couldn't google an answer.

jc

[Swish]

This one: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/483187/

84.00 at another pawn shop. I know it's not going to be loud enough for gigs but I figure he really should learn how to play before we worry about that. Wish all guitarist's had the same philosphy.

And BTW, what's a flame top? I couldn't google an answer.

jc

You can see the stripes in the wood finish...hence the term "flame" top, which I believe is always maple, but I could be wrong. Many guitars are one solid color and you can't see any grain in the wood. Flame tops usually command a higher price as well, or are found in better quality guitars, or at least near the top of the line for that particular model. Not always, but usually. My Strat is a "Special Edition", with higher quality hardware, pickups, and it's a flame top as well, so it cost more than a standard Strat, ditto your son's Epiphone.

As for the Marshall amp, 15 watts is plenty loud and should serve him very well, and it's enough power to drive you batty if he plays it cranked up. You did a good job with your purchases, and I hope your son respects the equipment and takes good care of it. I would spend a few bucks on a book or care manual so he can learn how to keep it in good condition, how to clean it and change the strings properly. I've seen so many abused guitars and it's really a shame. A good teacher should be able to help him with that too.

Oh yeah, spend another $15-20 on a guitar stand so he doesn't resort to leaning it against a wall or the furniture. That's a recipe for disaster.

Good luck to him.

Swish

[Jim Clark]

Well that explains it nicely, thanks for that. Since that's the case, I'm a flamer all the way. I didn't really like too many without wood grain but I'm a wood grain kinda guy.

Good advice on the other things and to be sure, many other family members are getting him guitar related accessories as their gifts to him and I know for a fact that a stand in among them. The book on care isn't overlooked either since I want him replacing his own strings from here on out.

Regards,
jc