What's a "Reputation"?

[markw]

She is a woman and I would have to meet her to determine if she was a lady.

Well, I guess I'll define a lady as a female/woman with class. Using that as my ruler, judging from her posts here, I feel comfortable in referring to her as a lady.

[GMichael]

Well, I guess I'll define a lady as a female/woman with class. Using that as my ruler, judging from her posts here, I feel comfortable in referring to her as a lady.

Ditto. But she doesn't seem to mind us joking with her.

[JohnMichael]

One of the interesting ideas about the term lady I learned from some of my womyn friends. They percieve the term lady as sexist. When you tell a woman to act like a lady there is a certain mental framework of behaviors expected. Think Laura Bush. On the other hand I know someone who will say that it takes breeding and class to become a lady. Which again is a narrow stereotype of a woman's expected behaviors.

[Bernd]

One of the interesting ideas about the term lady I learned from some of my womyn friends. They percieve the term lady as sexist. When you tell a woman to act like a lady there is a certain mental framework of behaviors expected. Think Laura Bush. On the other hand I know someone who will say that it takes breeding and class to become a lady. Which again is a narrow stereotype of a woman's expected behaviors.

Well said JM.

My wife hates the term "Lady". IMHO-You're either a decent human being or you're not. Simple really.
Or it should be.

Peace

[Resident Loser]

Well, I guess I'll define a lady as a female/woman with class. Using that as my ruler, judging from her posts here, I feel comfortable in referring to her as a lady.

...then again, you probably hold doors open, etc. You are an anachronism...a dinosaur...you sexist pig!

I guess the alternative of callin' 'em all ho's is more au courant, the more acceptable, contemporary nomenclature...Hmm...no, maybe not...Imus be mistaken...

jimHJJ(...then, of course, you have the "womyn" aspect in all if it's herstorical glory...)

[markw]

One of the interesting ideas about the term lady I learned from some of my womyn friends. They percieve the term lady as sexist. When you tell a woman to act like a lady there is a certain mental framework of behaviors expected. Think Laura Bush. On the other hand I know someone who will say that it takes breeding and class to become a lady. Which again is a narrow stereotype of a woman's expected behaviors.

I would be interested if she felt either honored or insulted by my calling her that.

Maybe it's a generational thing, but virtually every female I've ever run across (no exceptions) of any age found being called a lady a compliment simply because it implies breeding and class, which can transend many self-imposed barriers.

And,anyone that insists that woman be spelled "womyn" and defines the therm "lady" as sexist has issues of their (note I didn't say "her") own. After all, lady is, and has always been, simply the female counterpart of gentleman. Do any natural born males find this sexist?

In the meantime, it seems you're all just trying to rationalize the continued use of gutter talk in her thread. IMNSHO, she subtly (as a lady would) expressed mild displeasure with it initially, but several here took that as tacit approval and played off of it. It's as if some here can't take a subtle hint.

[markw]

Well said JM.

My wife hates the term "Lady". IMHO-You're either a decent human being or you're not. Simple really.
Or it should be.

Peace

Maybe she isn't a lady? Just wondering...

[ForeverAutumn]

Well, this thread certainly has taken an interesting turn.

In regards to the phrase Lady, I have no problem with it. I think that it is a statement of respect. I see nothing sexist about it. And I venture to call men Gentlemen on a rather frequent basis. But only if they are deserving of my respect. I understand what Bernd is saying, but I don't know of a non-gender word that could replace lady and gentleman, so those are the words that I use.

Even the slang words like wench, b!tch, or ho, I don't find sexist. I find them degrading. The attitude with which they are said is probably sexist, but the words are only words.

What I do find sexist is when I'm referred to in my husband's name...Mrs. John Smith (no, his name isn't really John Smith ). Especially, since I didn't take on his last name when we got married. I find that tradition of a woman changing her name highly sexist, as though she doesn't deserve her own identity. I told my Hubby that if he wanted us to have the same name, he was welcome to change his. He chose to keep his maiden name.

I don't mind when someone holds open the door for me. It's just a nice gesture. And I always say Thank You. I often hold the door open for other people...men and women. I get mad if they don't thank me for doing so (and I usually yell YOU'RE WELCOME after them, to let them know that they were rude).

Sexism is an attitude and it goes both ways. I think that it's sexist for a woman to expect a man to open a door for her, or to pay for dinner, etc, just because he's a man.

I used to call myself a feminist. Now I call myself a humanist. Treat me (and everyone) with respect and I'll treat you the same way. Cross the line and either I'll ignore you or you'll feel my wrath...depending on my mood. Luckily, lines aren't crossed too often on this site (or maybe I'm just not easily offended). I think that, for the most part, we all respect each other. And if we don't, then we are at least respectful of each other.

And while I appreciate markw's sentiment in calling me a lady and being concerned that I was offended, there was nothing to read into my comment. I was just making a joke.

[Bernd]

Maybe she isn't a lady? Just wondering...

Well, well, well - what have we got here. A real brave internet warrior. I doubt you would come out with crap like that standing in front of me.

As I said, You're either a decent human being or you're not. Just wondering too.....but maybe, on second thoughts, I don't need to anymore.

[Bernd]

Well, this thread certainly has taken an interesting turn.

In regards to the phrase Lady, I have no problem with it. I think that it is a statement of respect. I see nothing sexist about it. And I venture to call men Gentlemen on a rather frequent basis. But only if they are deserving of my respect. I understand what Bernd is saying, but I don't know of a non-gender word that could replace lady and gentleman, so those are the words that I use.

Even the slang words like wench, b!tch, or ho, I don't find sexist. I find them degrading. The attitude with which they are said is probably sexist, but the words are only words.

What I do find sexist is when I'm referred to in my husband's name...Mrs. John Smith (no, his name isn't really John Smith ). Especially, since I didn't take on his last name when we got married. I find that tradition of a woman changing her name highly sexist, as though she doesn't deserve her own identity. I told my Hubby that if he wanted us to have the same name, he was welcome to change his. He chose to keep his maiden name.

I don't mind when someone holds open the door for me. It's just a nice gesture. And I always say Thank You. I often hold the door open for other people...men and women. I get mad if they don't thank me for doing so (and I usually yell YOU'RE WELCOME after them, to let them know that they were rude).

Sexism is an attitude and it goes both ways. I think that it's sexist for a woman to expect a man to open a door for her, or to pay for dinner, etc, just because he's a man.

I used to call myself a feminist. Now I call myself a humanist. Treat me (and everyone) with respect and I'll treat you the same way. Cross the line and either I'll ignore you or you'll feel my wrath...depending on my mood. Luckily, lines aren't crossed too often on this site (or maybe I'm just not easily offended). I think that, for the most part, we all respect each other. And if we don't, then we are at least respectful of each other.

And while I appreciate markw's sentiment in calling me a lady and being concerned that I was offended, there was nothing to read into my comment. I was just making a joke.

Great post F.A.

My wife also kept her maiden name. Why anybody would want to surrender their identiy is beyond me.
And I agree that sexism is an attitude. I just don't like the class term of Lady or Gentleman. No biggie. Far to much is placed on that surface terminology. Look beyond the facade and you most likely come across selfishness and a complete spiritual desert.
I believe that what you do and the values you live by count for much more than being called a L. or a G. What's wrong with being called a man or a woman.
Do no harm. That's what matters.

Peace

[markw]

Well, well, well - what have we got here. A real brave internet warrior. I doubt you would come out with crap like that standing in front of me.

As I said, You're either a decent human being or you're not. Just wondering too.....but maybe, on second thoughts, I don't need to anymore.

You said your wife doesn't want to be called a lady. So I simply asceded to her wishes and paid her the compliment you say she desired.

After all, I never said she wasn't a good person, just not a lady which, as per your prior post, is exactly what she wants.

Make up your mind. Either you want your wife to be regarded as a lady, or you don't. Ya can't have it both ways. The fact that you rile when, as per your wishes, she's said to not be a lady makes you seen a bit of a hypocrite. I suggest you think about what you really want.

As I said earlier, I've never met a woman who didn't feel complimented when referred to as a lady. No exceptions. Your wife is no different, no matter what you say.

Me? I'm happy and proud that Mrs W. is regarded by all who know her as a lady, and neither of us would have it any other way.

and, yeah. I would say that in front of you.

[Bernd]

....shame, you had to drag this thread down to your level.

[GMichael]

Well, this thread certainly has taken an interesting turn.

In regards to the phrase Lady, I have no problem with it. I think that it is a statement of respect. I see nothing sexist about it. And I venture to call men Gentlemen on a rather frequent basis. But only if they are deserving of my respect. I understand what Bernd is saying, but I don't know of a non-gender word that could replace lady and gentleman, so those are the words that I use.

Even the slang words like wench, b!tch, or ho, I don't find sexist. I find them degrading. The attitude with which they are said is probably sexist, but the words are only words.

What I do find sexist is when I'm referred to in my husband's name...Mrs. John Smith (no, his name isn't really John Smith ). Especially, since I didn't take on his last name when we got married. I find that tradition of a woman changing her name highly sexist, as though she doesn't deserve her own identity. I told my Hubby that if he wanted us to have the same name, he was welcome to change his. He chose to keep his maiden name.

I don't mind when someone holds open the door for me. It's just a nice gesture. And I always say Thank You. I often hold the door open for other people...men and women. I get mad if they don't thank me for doing so (and I usually yell YOU'RE WELCOME after them, to let them know that they were rude).

Sexism is an attitude and it goes both ways. I think that it's sexist for a woman to expect a man to open a door for her, or to pay for dinner, etc, just because he's a man.

I used to call myself a feminist. Now I call myself a humanist. Treat me (and everyone) with respect and I'll treat you the same way. Cross the line and either I'll ignore you or you'll feel my wrath...depending on my mood. Luckily, lines aren't crossed too often on this site (or maybe I'm just not easily offended). I think that, for the most part, we all respect each other. And if we don't, then we are at least respectful of each other.

And while I appreciate markw's sentiment in calling me a lady and being concerned that I was offended, there was nothing to read into my comment. I was just making a joke.

Bravo FA,

I knew there was a reason I liked you.

[markw]

....shame, you had to drag this thread down to your level.

Get real. It seems only you and JM seemed to have a problem with it and, had you simply let your wife speak for herself, you would never have been involved.

[Bernd]

....with your sweeping statements.

Quote [As I said earlier, I've never met a woman who didn't feel complimented when referred to as a lady. No exceptions. Your wife is no different, no matter what you say.]

You don't know me or my wife, nor have you got the faintest idea how she feels or would feel.

And your comment about my wife was purely put to provoke. But then it takes all sorts.

Call anyone a "Lady" who you like, it's your right. I happen not to like that terminology, and that is my right.

Wonder no more ...... me thinks.

[ForeverAutumn]

Hmmm. Interesting to see how the initial turn in this threat, which was started as a means to not offend, has done exactly the opposite.

Just an observation.

Carry on...

[GMichael]

Hmmm. Interesting to see how the initial turn in this threat, which was started as a means to not offend, has done exactly that.

Just an observation.

Carry on...

See what you started?

[markw]

....with your sweeping statements.

Quote [As I said earlier, I've never met a woman who didn't feel complimented when referred to as a lady. No exceptions. Your wife is no different, no matter what you say.]

You don't know me or my wife, nor have you got the faintest idea how she feels or would feel.

And your comment about my wife was purely put to provoke. But then it takes all sorts.

Call anyone a "Lady" who you like, it's your right. I happen not to like that terminology, and that is my right.

Wonder no more ...... me thinks.

Happy now? Sheesh...

[Bernd]

Happy now? Sheesh...

Yes. Thank you.

[Resident Loser]

...Henny Youngman or Lyle Lovett who said:

"She's no lady, she's my wife"

Howzabout "...that's why the lady is a tramp..."

jimHJJ(...one of Sinatra's as I recall...)

[ForeverAutumn]

My wife also kept her maiden name.
Peace

She didn't keep her maiden name. She simply kept her name.

tsk. tsk.

[kexodusc]

She didn't keep her maiden name. She simply kept her name.

tsk. tsk.

LOL...You sound like my wife (who also kept her name, btw, it sounds better that way).

Sexism is an attitude and it goes both ways. I think that it's sexist for a woman to expect a man to open a door for her, or to pay for dinner, etc, just because he's a man.

Okay, you and she might disagree here...I think she's a feminist-by-convenience. She let's me pay for dinner, but refuses to spell "womyn" with a "y". Can't say I blame her. I like it when she pays for dinner, too.

I dunno, I think the onus is on men to be more aware of sexist behavior than women. I'm sure it exists both ways, but I'm not aware of as much sexist behavior on the part of women that reduces the quality of life for men by the same degree in which sexist men can affect women.

[Resident Loser]

She didn't keep her maiden name. She simply kept her name.

tsk. tsk.

...If we assume she was a maiden prior to marriage (nothing personal Bernd) and no longer one after marriage, then it was indeed her maiden name...Dislike the term as you will, it's used for identification purposes and has significant legal import...

jimHJJ(...apply for a loan and you'll see what I mean...)

[GMichael]

LOL...You sound like my wife (who also kept her name, btw, it sounds better that way).


Okay, you and she might disagree here...I think she's a feminist-by-convenience. She let's me pay for dinner, but refuses to spell "womyn" with a "y". Can't say I blame her. I like it when she pays for dinner, too.

I dunno, I think the onus is on men to be more aware of sexist behavior than women. I'm sure it exists both ways, but I'm not aware of as much sexist behavior on the part of women that reduces the quality of life for men by the same degree in which sexist men can affect women.

I take it on a case by case bases. Any women or womyn or lady who treats me fair, will be treated fair right back. Any of them who are mad at me for something some other guy has done will be avoided. I didn't do it and shouldn't have to pay for it. I'll hold a door open for a guy or a gal equally. If they get mad at me for it, then I pitty their miserable lives. If they don't say thank you, I may say you're welcome as FA does. Or I may just roll my eyes and go on with life.
My wife took my name. But not because I expected her to. It's part of how she grew up and she expected it of herself. I wouldn't have had a problem if she didn't.
I do understand what JM and Bernd are saying about the "lady" label. Some (mostly younger) women feel that a lady is subservient. That it means that they do the cooking & cleaning, stay home and "serve her man." I don't see it that way but will fight for their right to think what they want. I'll call them what they want to be called. My idea of a lady was always a woman with class, but never thought of a woman as a lady without it.

Hey, how did this happen? I never get serious. Who did this to me? Where's the punch line? When do I get to make a joke.

See what you did FA?

[Resident Loser]

I do understand what JM and Bernd are saying about the "lady" label. Some (mostly younger) women feel that a lady is subservient. That it means that they do the cooking & cleaning, stay home and "serve her man."

See what you did FA?

...tell that to Jerry Lewis when he calls after some "L-a-a-d-y-y-y!"...

Odd thing is Lady is the equivalent to Lord, peers of the realm, if nothing else, terms of deference...as in SNLs Garrett Morris' announcing Lord and Lady Douchebag...hardly subservient...Resentment of the term, IMHO, just shows ingnorance of the facts...I hear many a "lady" but hardly ever a "lord" unless it's followed by "help me"...

Now ifn ya' wants to see smoke come from the ears upon hearing a particular appellation, just wait 'til the first time some snotty, gum-poppin' salesgirl (and I'm sure we'll hear more about that) calls a woman "Ma'am"...

jimHJJ(...yaaaa-hooo...getout the way...)