What's REALLY going on in Iraq.

[piece-it pete]

Get sick for a coupla days, miss everything!!

RGA, your personal attacks on folks like me may play well to the left, but where I live calling someone KKK earns a trip outside.

It's easy to be insulting when you're typing words many miles away.

But the mudslinging during the election is SO regrettable.

Strangely enough, Congress was Dem during the Reagan years. Who writes the budget? Oh yeah, Reagan MADE them do it. But wait! He didn't have the Patriot Act, so how?

All surpluses over the last couple of decades are sheer fiction. Our deficit is FAR worse than shown, and NEVER ran a surplus, unless you believe in fairy tales.

We (the evil racist GOP) intentionally devalued the dollar a couple of years ago. We did this so the effects of the recession would be spread through the entire population vs hitting the poor the hardest, while giving exports a short-term boost. It also has the side effect of lowering the real value of our debt.

As our productivity continues to skyrocket, 'cause of the free flow of capitol (not told where it has to go, like so many socialist gov'ts) and the hard work of our citizens, the only likely result is a trend to increased wages and a stronger dollar. Of course, no one can see the future. But things look better than many would have one believe.

I live on Lake Erie - at least our part of the country will be fine with water into the forseeable future. It wil be a problem soon for most - will you give the water away, or sell it?

Facts: We, and the UN, and Germany, and France, and Russia, and Canada had the same Iraqi documentation of the thousands of tons of chemical and biological weapons Iraq had produced.

That they had them NO ONE disputed. The argument was that it wasn't reason enough to invade. Powell, who the left tries to cop whenever they can, even though he works for Bush (?), was obviously on board 100%.

The real concern should be - where are they? Instead, it's - we told you so. Who? And what purpose does this serve?

The US isn't safer. This is quite frankly a load of crap. I haven't seen any buildings come down lately.

And the Iraqis? While one guy was talking to a kid on camera an adult walks by and makes this comment - so quick-like I had to rewind - something like "It would be better to starve than have Saddam as ruler".

Pete

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Facts: We, and the UN, and Germany, and France, and Russia, and Canada had the same Iraqi documentation of the thousands of tons of chemical and biological weapons Iraq had produced.

This is a fact. However UN inspection had not been held in that country since 1998. From that point on no one had verified one single piece of that evidence was true or false. Hence inspections to see if Saddam had destroyed them like he said he did, or he has them like our information pointed out.

That they had them NO ONE disputed. The argument was that it wasn't reason enough to invade. Powell, who the left tries to cop whenever they can, even though he works for Bush (?), was obviously on board 100%.

They THINK and SUSPECTED they had them, but that was not verified. That is why the UN called for inspections of all known(and unknown) manufacturing sites that are have the potential for making these chemicals. The arguement is that that was not our war to fight, it was the UN's. There was absolutely no evidence that Saddam was personally threatening us with anything, he definately had his hands full with Iran, and sanctions. And for the record, Powell was not onboard at all with going into Iraq. It is VERY well documented that Powell had a major beef with Cheney(very personal and not very nice), Rumsfield, and Wolfowitz over this issue. Powell managed to convince Bush to go to the UN for another resolution to force this issue. Powell got the resolution, but it stopped short of invasion. Bush wanted invasion(or war as a consequence), the UN wanted to take the approach in steps. Nothing the UN proposed passed mustard with Bush, he wanted war. Powell was againist this war, and commented to Bush "you break it, you own it". Well we broke it alright, and now we own it to the tune of 200 million dollars and counting. Pretty expensive mistake wouldn't you say.

The real concern should be - where are they? Instead, it's - we told you so. Who? And what purpose does this serve?

We should have asked that question before prematurely going to war. Now they deserve a I told you so because of their hard heads, and deaf ears.

The US isn't safer. This is quite frankly a load of crap. I haven't seen any buildings come down lately.

We are not safer at all. Just because these terrorist are smart enough not to do the same thing twice doesn't mean we are safer. It just means they are figuring out another approach. It's this same kind of short sighted thinking that has made a mess of the post war reconstuction. These terrorist guys are not stupid. They have managed to kill alot of our soldiers with very crude weapons, and alot of patience. They have managed to break pieces away from this so called coalition of the willing(Spain, Philippines) through kidnapping and bombing.

And the Iraqis? While one guy was talking to a kid on camera an adult walks by and makes this comment - so quick-like I had to rewind - something like "It would be better to starve than have Saddam as ruler".

Pete

This may be ONE instance, but in communicating with my cousins they have a very different perspective. The appreciate us getting rid of Saddam that's apparent. They do not appreciate our extended stay, our way of doing things, our disrespect of their religious culture, and our lack of respect of them as people(abu grabe spl?). We have not done enough in terms of security, and they don't feel safe walking the streets because of the insurgency. So all is not as rosy as one would try and make it.

[RGA]

RGA, your personal attacks on folks like me may play well to the left, but where I live calling someone KKK earns a trip outside.

KKK hate gays so doesFallwell aqnd all religious people - they cloak it in words like "we don;t hate you but your a sinner blah blah - these people are WORSE than the KKK at least the KKK are up front and honest about their hate.

Strangely enough, Congress was Dem during the Reagan years. Who writes the budget? Oh yeah, Reagan MADE them do it. But wait! He didn't have the Patriot Act, so how?

Which democrat wrote Reganomicis again? Which Reagan haleped put Saddam in charge of Iraq and helped keep him there? Which country supplied the most arms to Iraq and which weapons were used to gas all those people again - yeah but guns don;t kill people people kill people - nice comfort except to the gassee.

All surpluses over the last couple of decades are sheer fiction. Our deficit is FAR worse than shown, and NEVER ran a surplus, unless you believe in fairy tales.

Never heard Bush say that ever in any debate - you must know more than him -- well I'd hope so so does Forest Gump.

We (the evil racist GOP) intentionally devalued the dollar a couple of years ago. We did this so the effects of the recession would be spread through the entire population vs hitting the poor the hardest, while giving exports a short-term boost. It also has the side effect of lowering the real value of our debt.

Hey no it's either the Evil racists biggetted anti gay GOP or the incompetant GOP - you are certainly welcome to choose the latter if you desire.

As our productivity continues to skyrocket, 'cause of the free flow of capitol (not told where it has to go, like so many socialist gov'ts) and the hard work of our citizens, the only likely result is a trend to increased wages and a stronger dollar. Of course, no one can see the future. But things look better than many would have one believe.

Well that makes no sense - what productivity is skyrocketing - ohh yeah the hard work of foreign slave labourers - but I forgot you're doing them a favour by giving them a job.

live on Lake Erie - at least our part of the country will be fine with water into the forseeable future. It wil be a problem soon for most - will you give the water away, or sell it?

No like most American tactics around the world - we'll sell you the product as we SOLD California hydro electricity to keep the state from going dark a few years ago - we'll charge you a lower rate then we could because Canada doesn't want to piss of the big bad America - and then when it comes toime to pay the Billions and Billions owed to us they pay ZERO. Then on top of that they do the ol' softwood lumber shtick for a thrid time for a SHORT term gain to keep your logger in an overinflated position. We grumble we take you to a world court and like the other two times we won on the same issue we'll win again but not before you got a 5 year run of jobs at the expense of workers and the industry here. And this is small potatoes compared the totallitarian work in Jamaica and Venezuala - making sure they have fair voting priactices like it'sa your job. Gods guns and anti-Gay nationalism sums up the Right pretty well. I'll give 5% of the Republican voters the benefit of the doubt (the ones who are NOT religious) for believing the rhetoric around finances.

Facts: We, and the UN, and Germany, and France, and Russia, and Canada had the same Iraqi documentation of the thousands of tons of chemical and biological weapons Iraq had produced.

That they had them NO ONE disputed. The argument was that it wasn't reason enough to invade. Powell, who the left tries to cop whenever they can, even though he works for Bush (?), was obviously on board 100%.

Please the information everyone had was America's information. Canada, Germany France Russia and Britain combined don't have the intelligence ability of the US. Iraq HAD produced it IRAQ also dumped it as they were TOLD to do and which was shown to be the case. The reason they were inspecting was to make sure they had no more of it or produced more of it. The American proof that Powell went over with that LAUGHABLE display of satelite images (They can read the DATE on a Dime in 1985 from sats in outer space but they can;t make out a truck clearly in 2001???) - See that truck thing there it's moving over there and they have cartons on it see and then that blurry thing over there with the red splotch is this other truck and that is the UN team see they are moving the other truck around. Yeah next time you're on trial for murder - you got love that evidence.

Which is why those countries didn't buy the tripe no one is that stupid (except the Republican voters of course) and why Canada stayed the hell out of it - gee along with France, Germany etc. Good ol Blaier love em was no doubt hoping to be the wing man to help steer Bush as much as possible form the nutty God has told me to free the world fanatacism of delusional dictators.

The real concern should be - where are they? Instead, it's - we told you so. Who? And what purpose does this serve?

Where are they ask Colin Powell, Condaleeza Rice and Bill Clinto before 9-11 - they all knew they all SAID it - how a day changes their mind. There is none because there was none.

The US isn't safer. This is quite frankly a load of crap. I haven't seen any buildings come down lately.

1) How many buildings came down before 9/11? How many came down a year after before plans were started to make it safe? This was a fringe group FROM AFGHANISTAN who attacked your country - and you've made a lackluster attempt at getting the culprit - why is that - you fly his family home - and you have a nice brief show of trying to get him bah.

2) safer - US citizens abroad are not safer - embassies getitng bombed way more than ever? more US citizens will die in Iraq by the end of it than that died on 9-11. And what if another attack happens? What will you say then? Just a fluke. That's the other thing wiith the Republicans - PARANOIA - It's pretty sad that I would agree with Pat Buchanen on Foreign policy - he's about as nutty as the right gets but on foreign policy he's closer to being right than most of the Right wing.

And the Iraqis? While one guy was talking to a kid on camera an adult walks by and makes this comment - so quick-like I had to rewind - something like "It would be better to starve than have Saddam as ruler".
Pete

Really it would be better to starve - than have free education all through to your PHD and then leave the country and emigrate to Canada and get a job - now they have no school or running water or electiricty and members of the family dead - yes it's better - let's see who the replacement is and who has the gauranteed contracts of their natural resource.(which has already been contracted without a leader's consent).

One Guy - One Guy interviewed in your street my call Bush the worst scourge to hit manking since Hitler - One guy could be very much overstating things. And according to the Fifth Estate part of the news here which inteviewed MANY Iraq citizens including members of their television networks - you would be VERY interested to have all the information on that scene where Iraqis pulled down the statue of Saddam Hussein and rode the head around. I'm surprised Michael Moore missed this one(probably because he's not a good researcher as he is a jokster) - but that was revealing bit of US propaganda - soince not a single person in the shot was born or came from Iraq. Also of interest was that no one came from the other two ajoining streets - and one happened to have an Iraq flag from many years ago and made illegal just in his pocket. Ohh this ios one small story to the others your media NEVER ina bazillian ytears will show. But this goes back to WWII - your new was just as one sided.

I'm not coming back to this thread - largely because it doesn't matter - The religious Right will never ever even if thy had 100% evidence that Bush outright Lied would listen to it - I mean they have PROVEN beyond any shadow of a doubt that gay men do not choose to be gay but is biological - and even then they try and twist the science around - so there's no point.

You deserve the dictator you elect.

[gonefishin]

RGA,

you are one young kid filled with much hate and ignorance. I do hope you mature in the coming years.


God bless...and best wishes,

dan

[piece-it pete]

This is a fact. However UN inspection had not been held in that country since 1998. From that point on no one had verified one single piece of that evidence was true or false. Hence inspections to see if Saddam had destroyed them like he said he did, or he has them like our information pointed out.

This would have been fine with me - if only Saddam had been cooperative! He kept ACTING like he had something to hide.

He was biding his time, playing us for suckers - again.

They THINK and SUSPECTED they had them, but that was not verified. That is why the UN called for inspections of all known(and unknown) manufacturing sites that are have the potential for making these chemicals. The arguement is that that was not our war to fight, it was the UN's. There was absolutely no evidence that Saddam was personally threatening us with anything, he definately had his hands full with Iran, and sanctions. And for the record, Powell was not onboard at all with going into Iraq. It is VERY well documented that Powell had a major beef with Cheney(very personal and not very nice), Rumsfield, and Wolfowitz over this issue. Powell managed to convince Bush to go to the UN for another resolution to force this issue. Powell got the resolution, but it stopped short of invasion. Bush wanted invasion(or war as a consequence), the UN wanted to take the approach in steps. Nothing the UN proposed passed mustard with Bush, he wanted war. Powell was againist this war, and commented to Bush "you break it, you own it". Well we broke it alright, and now we own it to the tune of 200 million dollars and counting. Pretty expensive mistake wouldn't you say.

The potential payoff is still huge.

Any dissent in the admin is carefully orchestrated and largely show. Call me cynical. What is for sure is that Powell did present our case to the UN, not Rumsfeld.

This was supposed to be the UNs' war? Come on, what are they going to do? Argue Saddam into submission?

How about Frances' contract with Saddam, where when sanctions were lifted they had the right to almost unlimited amounts of oil for $10.00/barrel? They have a permanent veto on the UN security council!

We should have asked that question before prematurely going to war. Now they deserve a I told you so because of their hard heads, and deaf ears.


We are not safer at all. Just because these terrorist are smart enough not to do the same thing twice doesn't mean we are safer. It just means they are figuring out another approach. It's this same kind of short sighted thinking that has made a mess of the post war reconstuction. These terrorist guys are not stupid. They have managed to kill alot of our soldiers with very crude weapons, and alot of patience. They have managed to break pieces away from this so called coalition of the willing(Spain, Philippines) through kidnapping and bombing.

I would call it a coalition of the weak, with some very large exceptions. A shadow UN?

Don't these folks know you should NEVER give in to hostage takers? It encourages them.

You really believe that we're not safer now than 9-12?

Think about it - the worlds' greatest power, spending untold sums of money and thousands of manhours (worlds finest), and have accomplished NOTHING?

Sorry TT, we are safer, and getting more so every day.

This may be ONE instance, but in communicating with my cousins they have a very different perspective. The appreciate us getting rid of Saddam that's apparent. They do not appreciate our extended stay, our way of doing things, our disrespect of their religious culture, and our lack of respect of them as people(abu grabe spl?). We have not done enough in terms of security, and they don't feel safe walking the streets because of the insurgency. So all is not as rosy as one would try and make it.

That was one comment. The movie was made by hundreds of Iraqi citizens.

I will admit, there was some disturbing comments made. Not all was rosy. But the overall picture was maybe ONE MILLION TIMES BETTER than we are told on a daily basis.

We can lose battles and win the war. As a matter of fact, we WILL lose battles. Winning is up to us, and most Iraqis hope we do. They want to be free.

We succeed, we will have friends there for a long time, as well as an answer to those who paint us as an evil oppressor, who teach young boys and girls to blow themselves up taking out civilians.

Watch the movie, hear and see it for yourself. Like I say, not all is a bed of roses, but...

see it yourself.

Pete