What's REALLY going on in Iraq.

[piece-it pete]

Good news!

The media here in the States have been lying to us.

Wait, that's not good!

Anyway, things in Iraq is going well, with most Iraqis hopeful and CERTAINLY not haters of America.

Quite the contrary.

This curtesy of, of all things, Netflix:

"The producers of this groundbreaking documentary distributed 150 digital video cameras across Iraq to enable everyday people -- mothers, children, teachers, sheiks, even insurgents -- to voice their perspectives on issues such as war, terror and the democratic reform. The result is a unique tableau documenting Iraqis' lives and their hopes as they struggle with years of turmoil and strive to build a civil society. Note: Contains graphic content."

Perhaps it paints a too-rosy picture to a degree, but I'm not so sure. As people talk on camera there IS bombs going off in the background. If it was slanted they would use different clips, edit it out altogether.

WATCH THIS MOVIE.

"Voices of Iraq".

The Iraqis really do appreciate our help. They hated Saddam, are excited about democracy, and believe the problems they are having with terrorists are the result of the other Arab nations trying to stop Iraqis from being free.

Pete

[JeffKnob]

Good news!

The media here in the States have been lying to us.

Wait, that's not good!

Anyway, things in Iraq is going well, with most Iraqis hopeful and CERTAINLY not haters of America.

Quite the contrary.

This curtesy of, of all things, Netflix:

"The producers of this groundbreaking documentary distributed 150 digital video cameras across Iraq to enable everyday people -- mothers, children, teachers, sheiks, even insurgents -- to voice their perspectives on issues such as war, terror and the democratic reform. The result is a unique tableau documenting Iraqis' lives and their hopes as they struggle with years of turmoil and strive to build a civil society. Note: Contains graphic content."

Perhaps it paints a too-rosy picture to a degree, but I'm not so sure. As people talk on camera there IS bombs going off in the background. If it was slanted they would use different clips, edit it out altogether.

WATCH THIS MOVIE.

"Voices of Iraq".

The Iraqis really do appreciate our help. They hated Saddam, are excited about democracy, and believe the problems they are having with terrorists are the result of the other Arab nations trying to stop Iraqis from being free.

Pete

I will have to check that out. I am not surprised that the media is lying to us. It is harder and harder these days to get the truth about what is going on. We can't even count on our president to tell us the truth....after all he is a politician. I am not trying to start a fight about Bush. We all know that he has lied to us many times. I think that if we all knew the truth about everything we would be in a much different place right now.

[JSE]

We all know that he has lied to us many times.

We do? Speak for yourself. Afterall, this is just your opinion and you know what they say about opinions.........

JSE

[BillB]

WE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!

Sorry...couldn't resist...I'll have to check out that movie though, the documentary on Al-Jazeera as well. Today's a sad day for me, I fear what our world will look like in four years.

[JeffKnob]

We do? Speak for yourself. Afterall, this is just your opinion and you know what they say about opinions.........

JSE

You must live in your own delusional world of bliss to honestly think the president has been truthful to you. I live in the real world...I hope the land-of-make-believe works out for you.

[karl k]

You must live in your own delusional world of bliss to honestly think the president has been truthful to you. I live in the real world...I hope the land-of-make-believe works out for you.

what JSE hears from the Prez and what the Prez tell US are fundementally different!

When GW was elected, he told JSE(as a fellow Texan) "You can always count on me to tell YOU everything I can't tell the public!" LOL!

[JSE]

You must live in your own delusional world of bliss to honestly think the president has been truthful to you. I live in the real world...I hope the land-of-make-believe works out for you.

Knob,

Actually, I live in the real world and don't cling to "He's a liar" as my best offense. For the most part, I feel Bush is an honorable man that makes decisions that are hard decisions that don't always make everyone happy. But, he makes a decision and sticks to it. I know, I know, he lied about why we went into Iraq. Being wrong about WMD is not a lie! If it was, then Kerry would also be a liar. Cuz he did vote for Iraq, I mean he did not, or no, he did. I mean he didn't. Whatever. Go ahead and keep up the "Liar" tactic. Look where it got you this time. Of course there is no sense in it now.

Your statement said that "we all" know he lied to us many times. I don't feel that is the case. "We all" means everyone. I can tell you about 51% of American voters would probably differ with you. A little short of "All" huh? But you don't want to here that. You feel that you are the voice of every American and you know what everyone is thinking. After all, you think it. Why would anyone disagree. You are the all-knowing KNOB! I understand why people like you like to use terms like "we all" and "everyone". You think it lends importance and credibility to your statement. But in the end, it's simply a useless tactic.

Anyway, I am off to live in my "delusional world of bliss".

Karl,

What's up man? You are right in that the President does confide in me about what he is really thinking. He's coming here next week to throw back a few colds ones with me. I will be sure to give everyone the "down-low" on what we talk about. Can secret service guys drink on duty? Nah, probably not.

JSE

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Knob,

Actually, I live in the real world and don't cling to "He's a liar" as my best offense. For the most part, I feel Bush is an honorable man that makes decisions that are hard decisions that don't always make everyone happy. But, he makes a decision and sticks to it. I know, I know, he lied about why we went into Iraq. Being wrong about WMD is not a lie!

JSE, He did lie about going into Iraq. In this particular case, it was safe to err on the side of caution. There was really no evidence that Saddam was collaborating with terrorist. We knew the information about WMD was sketchy, but instead of being patient until we knew more, we went head on in there, and made a huge mess. Now more have died(our soldiers) in post war activities than when we first invaded. Iraqi citzens are dying by the hundreds weekly, and terrorist are now entrenched within the country. He has lied about going in there, and now he's telling us things are going on as planned. You mean to tell me it was planned that we lose this many soldiers????? More lies, more spin, hide the truth, spin until you can change the subject, that is what we have seen so far. We don't know how much this is going to cost us, how bad things really are, how many innocent people have died, or when our soldiers will be coming home. He may be honorable as a person, but as a president, it's a different story. Why stick with a mistake, and cannot admit it happen, that is just plain stubborness, not honor.

If it was, then Kerry would also be a liar. Cuz he did vote for Iraq, I mean he did not, or no, he did. I mean he didn't. Whatever. Go ahead and keep up the "Liar" tactic. Look where it got you this time. Of course there is no sense in it now.

This whole flip flop crap is nothing more than a montra, to be repeated time and time again, so you do have to actually analyze this man position. Everyone should be able to change their mind when they get different information. This is called growth. EVERYONE does it. When you were a kid, did your behavior change as you grew older and learned more things. Do you do the same thing snow you did as a kid? No, you know do things differently based on the information you have learned over time. This is what Kerry has done, you do, I do, and every critical thinking person does. Bush on the other hand made mistakes, and stuck by those mistakes out of stubborness, this shows entrenched thinking that doesn't appear to evolve with new information. This type of thinking will get us into trouble, and keep us in trouble, hence this current Iraq situation.

Your statement said that "we all" know he lied to us many times. I don't feel that is the case. "We all" means everyone. I can tell you about 51% of American voters would probably differ with you. A little short of "All" huh? But you don't want to here that. You feel that you are the voice of every American and you know what everyone is thinking. After all, you think it. Why would anyone disagree. You are the all-knowing KNOB! I understand why people like you like to use terms like "we all" and "everyone". You think it lends importance and credibility to your statement. But in the end, it's simply a useless tactic.

Anyway, I am off to live in my "delusional world of bliss".

Karl,

What's up man? You are right in that the President does confide in me about what he is really thinking. He's coming here next week to throw back a few colds ones with me. I will be sure to give everyone the "down-low" on what we talk about. Can secret service guys drink on duty? Nah, probably not.

JSE

The rest of this stuff is personal, and the T-man finds himself tip toeing out of the picture.........

[JeffKnob]

Knob,

Actually, I live in the real world and don't cling to "He's a liar" as my best offense. For the most part, I feel Bush is an honorable man that makes decisions that are hard decisions that don't always make everyone happy. But, he makes a decision and sticks to it. I know, I know, he lied about why we went into Iraq. Being wrong about WMD is not a lie! If it was, then Kerry would also be a liar. Cuz he did vote for Iraq, I mean he did not, or no, he did. I mean he didn't. Whatever. Go ahead and keep up the "Liar" tactic. Look where it got you this time. Of course there is no sense in it now.

Your statement said that "we all" know he lied to us many times. I don't feel that is the case. "We all" means everyone. I can tell you about 51% of American voters would probably differ with you. A little short of "All" huh? But you don't want to here that. You feel that you are the voice of every American and you know what everyone is thinking. After all, you think it. Why would anyone disagree. You are the all-knowing KNOB! I understand why people like you like to use terms like "we all" and "everyone". You think it lends importance and credibility to your statement. But in the end, it's simply a useless tactic.

Anyway, I am off to live in my "delusional world of bliss".

Karl,

What's up man? You are right in that the President does confide in me about what he is really thinking. He's coming here next week to throw back a few colds ones with me. I will be sure to give everyone the "down-low" on what we talk about. Can secret service guys drink on duty? Nah, probably not.

JSE

It is amazing how Republicans get fired up when they are questioned. That is very arrogant. Bush does that all the time. How dare anybody say Bush is wrong!!

I just stated that all politicians lie including our wonderful angelic president that could do now wrong. You are totally whipped if you think only the Republican politicians tell the truth. I was assuming too much by using "all" when referring to a politician lying. I was assuming "all" people were smart enough to have looked at the facts and realized that the president has lied to us. I guess 51% of the people don't realize that politicians lie to us. According to JSE there is no way that for these people the lying didn't bother them or they simply voted based on different issues. Last time I checked there was more than one issue talked about in this election.

I don't believe everything that politicians tell me. If it is an issue that I feel matters to me I will research it and come to my own conclusion as to who is corrrect about the issue. Factcheck.org is a great place to find some information about the election. If you read that site you will learn that BOTH Bush and Kerry lied to us.

[JSE]

"It is amazing how Republicans get fired up when they are questioned. That is very arrogant. Bush does that all the time. How dare anybody say Bush is wrong!! "

You did not say that Bush was wrong, you said he lied. Big difference. What "I" get fired up about is when people like yourself carelessly lump everyone into "we all" in your posts. Last time I checked you did not speak for "we all". Hense, my post stating "Speak for yourself".


"I just stated that all politicians lie including our wonderful angelic president that could do now wrong. "

You did?

"You are totally whipped if you think only the Republican politicians tell the truth. I was assuming too much by using "all" when referring to a politician lying."

When did I say that? And yes, you are assuming to much.


"I was assuming "all" people were smart enough to have looked at the facts and realized that the president has lied to us."

Bye all means, keep clinging to that little shred of worthless nonsense to make you feel better.

" According to JSE there is no way that for these people the lying didn't bother them or they simply voted based on different issues."

No, but I would be willing to bet that most of these people can see the difference between being a liar and being wrong. Apparently you can't.

"I don't believe everything that politicians tell me. If it is an issue that I feel matters to me I will research it and come to my own conclusion as to who is corrrect about the issue. "

I would hope so.

JSE

[JeffKnob]

It is amazing how Republicans get fired up when they are questioned. That is very arrogant. Bush does that all the time. How dare anybody say Bush is wrong!! "

You did not say that Bush was wrong, you said he lied. Big difference. What "I" get fired up about is when people like yourself carelessly lump everyone into "we all" in your posts. Last time I checked you did not speak for "we all". Hense, my post stating "Speak for yourself".

I was referring to you when I said Republicans because you get very fired up when someone disagrees with you. Bush is a Republican and he has displayed an additude in the debates when Kerry has told him he was wrong. That is why I stated "How dare anybody say Bush is wrong" You don't seem to ever entertain the idea of him being wrong. That is very closed minded.

"I just stated that all politicians lie including our wonderful angelic president that could do now wrong. "

You did?

We can't even count on our president to tell us the truth....after all he is a politician

I am sorry but I lumped Bush in with all politicians. He still is a politician or am I wrong there too.

"I was assuming "all" people were smart enough to have looked at the facts and realized that the president has lied to us."

Bye all means, keep clinging to that little shred of worthless nonsense to make you feel better.

I would like to think that people in this country are smart. I am very sorry if you feel that is "worthless nonsense". Maybe in your neck of the woods the people aren't very smart.

" According to JSE there is no way that for these people the lying didn't bother them or they simply voted based on different issues."

No, but I would be willing to bet that most of these people can see the difference between being a liar and being wrong. Apparently you can't.

The statement I made about being wrong was an observation made about the arrogance of our president. He acts like he is above being wrong. Of course I know the difference between a liar and wrong. I am one of those smart people I was talking about.

"I don't believe everything that politicians tell me. If it is an issue that I feel matters to me I will research it and come to my own conclusion as to who is corrrect about the issue. "

I would hope so.

I haven't seen very much evidence that you have done this. All of your arguments are exactly what Bush has stated many times in his speeches. Do you have your own thoughts?

[JSE]

T,

The President did not lie about going into Iraq. Was he wrong about WMD? Looks like he was. But's that is not a lie. Did he "knowingly" really on skectchy information? No. Most other countries came to the same conclusion we did including France, Russia and Germany. Were they all lying when they said Iraq had WMDs? They did not decide our course of actions were correct but again, where is the lie?

and

"This whole flip flop crap is nothing more than a montra, to be repeated time and time again, so you do have to actually analyze this man position. Everyone should be able to change their mind when they get different information. This is called growth. EVERYONE does it. "

Yes, but going back and forth on issues so much is not a quality I look for in President.

JSE

[JSE]

"I was referring to you when I said Republicans because you get very fired up when someone disagrees with you. "

Are you reading my replies? I answered by saying "I" get fired up when......


" Bush is a Republican and he has displayed an additude in the debates when Kerry has told him he was wrong."

What is he supposed to say? Yep, you got me! Come on.

"That is why I stated "How dare anybody say Bush is wrong" You don't seem to ever entertain the idea of him being wrong. That is very closed minded."

This absolutely wrong, please see one of my prior postings. Looks like you did not do that research you so often refer to and formed an incorrect opinion.

I'm running for President!


" Maybe in your neck of the woods the people aren't very smart."

LOL!


"Of course I know the difference between a liar and wrong. "

Do you? Cuz, you can't seem to grasp it so far.


"I am one of those smart people I was talking about. "

I'm arrogant?

"Do you have your own thoughts?"

Nope, I am a mindless drone.

JSE

[JeffKnob]

"I was referring to you when I said Republicans because you get very fired up when someone disagrees with you. "

Are you reading my replies? I answered by saying "I" get fired up when......


" Bush is a Republican and he has displayed an additude in the debates when Kerry has told him he was wrong."

What is he supposed to say? Yep, you got me! Come on.

That is why I stated "How dare anybody say Bush is wrong" You don't seem to ever entertain the idea of him being wrong. That is very closed minded."

This absolutely wrong, please see one of my prior postings. Looks like you did not do that research you so often refer to and formed an incorrect opinion.

I'm running for President!


" Maybe in your neck of the woods the people aren't very smart."

LOL!


"Of course I know the difference between a liar and wrong. "

Do you? Cuz, you can't seem to grasp it so far.


I am one of those smart people I was talking about.

I'm arrogant?

"Do you have your own thoughts?"

Nope, I am a mindless drone.

JSE

I see you have resorted to using only personal attacks and not having a political discussion.

I am not arrogant. I know I am smart. That is self-confidence. Do you know the difference?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

T,

The President did not lie about going into Iraq. Was he wrong about WMD? Looks like he was. But's that is not a lie. Did he "knowingly" really on skectchy information? No. Most other countries came to the same conclusion we did including France, Russia and Germany. Were they all lying when they said Iraq had WMDs? They did not decide our course of actions were correct but again, where is the lie?

If you read the UN reports, and Bob Woodward in depth report on the war, there was plenty of evidence to make us take a pause before going to war. That evidence was ignored by this administration in spite of Colin Powells pleas to hold off. According to Woodwards report information that would have stop this war was buried, and information that leaned towards the fact the WMD were in Iraq was trumped up to support the war cause. Colin Powell knew the information was sketchy, but Rumsfield, Cheney, and Wolfiwotz disagreed and it was their voice that the President listen to. The lie he told is that he went with what he thought was credible evidence, when if fact it was sketchy and he knew it.

and

"This whole flip flop crap is nothing more than a montra, to be repeated time and time again, so you do have to actually analyze this man position. Everyone should be able to change their mind when they get different information. This is called growth. EVERYONE does it. "

Yes, but going back and forth on issues so much is not a quality I look for in President.

JSE

On the other hand, making the wrong decision, and then sticking with it is not exactly showing flexibility, agility, or any progession whatsoever. The local newspaper here did an in depth study on whether Kerry flip flop as many said he did. If fact Bush was the one flip flopping in the end. We went to Iraq to find WMD. We went to Iraq to crush a evil dictator. We went to Iraq to free the people. We went to, we went to....it just kept spinning and spinning as evidence was uncovered that WMD were not there in the first place. No admittance of possible error, no apology for the mistakes, just unapologetic banter, and tons of lies on the cost, and the ground conditions over there. This is not what I want to see in our President.

[JSE]

I see you have resorted to using only personal attacks and not having a political discussion.

I am not arrogant. I know I am smart. That is self-confidence. Do you know the difference?

Huh?

JSE

[RGA]

Good news!

The media here in the States have been lying to us.

Wait, that's not good!

Anyway, things in Iraq is going well, with most Iraqis hopeful and CERTAINLY not haters of America.

Quite the contrary.

This curtesy of, of all things, Netflix:

"The producers of this groundbreaking documentary distributed 150 digital video cameras across Iraq to enable everyday people -- mothers, children, teachers, sheiks, even insurgents -- to voice their perspectives on issues such as war, terror and the democratic reform. The result is a unique tableau documenting Iraqis' lives and their hopes as they struggle with years of turmoil and strive to build a civil society. Note: Contains graphic content."

Perhaps it paints a too-rosy picture to a degree, but I'm not so sure. As people talk on camera there IS bombs going off in the background. If it was slanted they would use different clips, edit it out altogether.

WATCH THIS MOVIE.

"Voices of Iraq".

The Iraqis really do appreciate our help. They hated Saddam, are excited about democracy, and believe the problems they are having with terrorists are the result of the other Arab nations trying to stop Iraqis from being free.

Pete

Umm who's to say the documentarian didn't fix it. Mr. Moore showed the tapes of Bush Rice and Powell among others "saying" things for themselves and now he's a liar.

You don't get a history or truth from a documentarian - nor do you get it from a mocumentarian like Moore.

Whyeveryone bothers to get into these debates - a good 40% 45% of the US population is of the religious right(so they are about as bright as people who believe in Ghosts and Goblins - which is what you believe if you belive in Christianity Catholocism and eveyr other man made reluigious power questing manifest destinyish tripe). Religious right are about keeping power building money screwing everyone over and then using terms like Thou Shalt not kill well except when it is in our opinion justified and thou shalt not steal except when we want it.

But at least you KNOW this going in when the republicans win. The Democrats show better to the rest of the world - but do no better. So there is a bit of slyness to them. I mean when Clinto helps screw over the Jamaicans no one really notices or when he bombs a country nobody relaly says much - the Republicans do the same things and then everuyone has hightened anti-Americanism radar up and get all over them. It wasn't surprising tha the slack jawed religious right Deliverence KKK element in all of the middle states went Republican nor was it a surprised the educated west coast went to the left. Sadly they were trying to pick the best of 2 pretty lousy candidates. I personally think you should have a minimum intelligence level to be president which rules out Bush - on the other hand you need some charisma too which rules out Kerry(think they would have learned after the robotic Gore). Seriously the dems screwed themselves - they need a good looking rock star type to get the conservative female republicans excited bored with their husbands who aren't allowed to go down on them becuase they'll go to he double hockey sticks - they need someone to fantasize about because they're shackled by their religious nuttyness husbands like Jerry Fallwell.

C'mon - JFK proved that you can win on looks and charisma alone. The radio only debate they chose Nixon - the telvised viewers chose JFK. Clinton??

[JSE]

The lie he told is that he went with what he thought was credible evidence, when if fact it was sketchy and he knew it.

I guess it comes down whether or not the President was deliberately trying to ignore certain evidence and whether he knew the evidence was sketchy for a fact or was that just the opinion of some. I feel he weighed everything and unfortunately made a decision based on fautly info. I can't go as far to say he did this knowing he was relying on proven false info. Remember, just about every other country in the UN made the same conclusion. DID THEY ALL LIE?

I feel he did not lie, you feel he did. Nothing we can do about that. But, back to Pete's original post.

I agree that the media has been very intent on just showing the bad in Iraq. Why, it's juicy and gets attention. Sure, people and soldiers have died and there are problems but there is also a lot of good being done. We are builing schools, power faciliies, improving oil product, people have their own businesses, people are FREE to do what they want when they want, people are not being gassed for no reason, women are not being brutalized by their own goverment officials, they had an olympic team that was not shot win they did not win. The list goes on and on. How many times do we hear about these things on all the networks combined each week? 1 maybe 2 times. Maybe. How many times are we reminded how many soldiers are killed and how many families do we need to see interviewed after their son or daughter is killed? I'm not saying we should not be aware of these things but come on, enough is enough. The networks don't care about these people, they want ratings. Pretty sick if you ask me.

JSE

[karl k]

Karl,

What's up man? You are right in that the President does confide in me about what he is really thinking. He's coming here next week to throw back a few colds ones with me. I will be sure to give everyone the "down-low" on what we talk about. Can secret service guys drink on duty? Nah, probably not.

JSE

It HAS been awhile hasn't it? Everybody was getting pretty deep with the politics and doing more research on the subject than is healthy... for me anyway. I just took a little break from posting and worked on my other projects. Then, when I did check in after some weeks, I find a new "marshal" in town and decided to lay low and see how bad it would get before I open my preverbial mouth and get the boot. This time I just couldn't resist the temptation to reach out and tickle you a bit! I'm glad you will keep things real and those secret service guys... I hear they are smokers... not drinkers!

Glad to be back for a bit!

Karl K

[dean_martin]

Good news!

The media here in the States have been lying to us.

Wait, that's not good!

Anyway, things in Iraq is going well, with most Iraqis hopeful and CERTAINLY not haters of America.

Quite the contrary.

This curtesy of, of all things, Netflix:

"The producers of this groundbreaking documentary distributed 150 digital video cameras across Iraq to enable everyday people -- mothers, children, teachers, sheiks, even insurgents -- to voice their perspectives on issues such as war, terror and the democratic reform. The result is a unique tableau documenting Iraqis' lives and their hopes as they struggle with years of turmoil and strive to build a civil society. Note: Contains graphic content."

Perhaps it paints a too-rosy picture to a degree, but I'm not so sure. As people talk on camera there IS bombs going off in the background. If it was slanted they would use different clips, edit it out altogether.

WATCH THIS MOVIE.

"Voices of Iraq".

The Iraqis really do appreciate our help. They hated Saddam, are excited about democracy, and believe the problems they are having with terrorists are the result of the other Arab nations trying to stop Iraqis from being free.

Pete

I'm not sure what's going on over there, but I do know that we've been telegraphing our plans for a huge strike on Fallujah for the past few days (maybe even weeks). I wouldn't be surprised if the folks we're after are gone when we do attack or if we see something like Somalia. I saw another report on our preparation for the attack while home for lunch today. For some reason the scene and news setup reminded me of the movie Black Hawk Down in an eerie kind of way. I know our strike force was limited (no bombing or real air support) and our mission was different but still we were supposed to have the element of surprise on our side then. We're certainly not counting on surprise now. We need to continue to keep our soldiers in our thoughts and/or prayers.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I guess it comes down whether or not the President was deliberately trying to ignore certain evidence and whether he knew the evidence was sketchy for a fact or was that just the opinion of some. I feel he weighed everything and unfortunately made a decision based on fautly info. I can't go as far to say he did this knowing he was relying on proven false info. Remember, just about every other country in the UN made the same conclusion. DID THEY ALL LIE?

He knew the information was sketchy, it wasn't just some innocent wrong guess. Colin Powell warned him about going in there on this kind of flimsey evidence, but Bush, and his warmongering buddies pushed forward. He didn't weigh everything(I know you feel this way, but it's not the reality in this case), because if he did, he would have let Hans Blix finish his report, and we would not have been dragged into this quagmire. The UN knew the information was not complete, hence the inspections. We had NO SUPPORT in the UN to go to war with Iraq. And this was outside the usual crooks Germany, France, and Russia. No other country aside from the 28 we have bribe with a economical carrot would join us, or verbally support us.

I feel he did not lie, you feel he did. Nothing we can do about that. But, back to Pete's original post.

Like so many other division we have in this country, now a lie isn't quite a lie anymore. I guess if we Demo's are willing to accept a Clinton lie, you Repubs should be allowed to accept a Bush lie. Fair enough, except wasn't Bush supposed to "restore the integrety" of the White House?

I agree that the media has been very intent on just showing the bad in Iraq.

I am not listening to the media, I am listening to my two cousin on the ground over there. Bush is saying they are training thousands of security forces. My cousin say they don't trust these guys, and don't really want to work side by side with them. Too many infiltration problems. They say they run at the first sign of trouble, and don't want to engage with the terrorist(they are arab after all). A huge oil pipeline was blown up there, setting the economy back. The far north, and deep south seem somewhat tame, but the middle of that country is a fire keg ready to explode.

Why, it's juicy and gets attention. Sure, people and soldiers have died and there are problems but there is also a lot of good being done. We are builing schools, power faciliies, improving oil product, people have their own businesses, people are FREE to do what they want when they want, people are not being gassed for no reason, women are not being brutalized by their own goverment officials, they had an olympic team that was not shot win they did not win. The list goes on and on.

Now the reality. My cousins say everytime they fix something, or rebuild it, the terrorist come and sabotage it. We are spending our money repairing what we have already just built. 60% of all Iraqi's are unemployed, underfed, and have no place to seek medical attention. Electricity is still spotty, and inconsistant because of constant sabotage. Women are still second class citizens, business have to guard themselves againist looters, and the soldiers cannot even trust the people because they don't speak up about where they know the terrorist are hiding. Now this is coming from the ground, not from a news agency. For every one thing good that happens, ten bad things happen. That is not a news problem, it's a security problem.

How many times do we hear about these things on all the networks combined each week? 1 maybe 2 times. Maybe. How many times are we reminded how many soldiers are killed and how many families do we need to see interviewed after their son or daughter is killed? I'm not saying we should not be aware of these things but come on, enough is enough. The networks don't care about these people, they want ratings. Pretty sick if you ask me.

JSE

None of this would be had we not allowed the UN to handle this issue. Had they have failed to handle this correctly, then there would have been a much stronger case to go to war. But they didn't even get a chance to finish, and because of that, this country is 200 million dollars poorer, out 1,100+ fewer soldiers, and have a division in this country so deep over this war, you can throw a million elephants in the gap, and you still couldn't see the bottom. Congratulations on your win, but its a shame you have to cover for such incompetence.

[karl k]

I'm not sure what's going on over there, but I do know that we've been telegraphing our plans for a huge strike on Fallujah for the past few days (maybe even weeks). I wouldn't be surprised if the folks we're after are gone when we do attack or if we see something like Somalia... ... We're certainly not counting on surprise now. We need to continue to keep our soldiers in our thoughts and/or prayers.

Ya, it's alot like blasting the police sirens and skreeching the tires when trying to catch a robber in the act. Still don't get that one.

[Slosh]

Sure, people and soldiers have died and there are problems but there is also a lot of good being done. We are builing schools, power faciliies, improving oil product...

And can you tell me why we are rebuilding? Did these things fall apart on their own?

...people have their own businesses, people are FREE to do what they want when they want

You are talking about the Iraq on the planet Earth, right?

...women are not being brutalized by their own goverment officials

You're right. Now they're being raped and maimed by thugs of multiple sects.

Dubya's second term: now rednecks rule America!

[RGA]

I agree that the media has been very intent on just showing the bad in Iraq. Why, it's juicy and gets attention. Sure, people and soldiers have died and there are problems but there is also a lot of good being done. We are builing schools, power faciliies, improving oil product, people have their own businesses, people are FREE to do what they want when they want, people are not being gassed for no reason, women are not being brutalized by their own goverment officials, they had an olympic team that was not shot win they did not win. The list goes on and on. How many times do we hear about these things on all the networks combined each week? 1 maybe 2 times. Maybe. How many times are we reminded how many soldiers are killed and how many families do we need to see interviewed after their son or daughter is killed? I'm not saying we should not be aware of these things but come on, enough is enough. The networks don't care about these people, they want ratings. Pretty sick if you ask me.
JSE

Firstly no one argues that Saddam wasn't a bad guy. No one is saying he was Saddam Santa Clause.

However, Iraq did not start a war, Iraq didn't attack America - they may have had some tough talk but the fact remains that Condaleeza Rice and COlin Powel said before 9-11 that Iraq was fully contained and not a threat - Clinton said the same thing. Just because he's a democrat the info was still there by the military. As for schools - Ira is the most well educated country in the region they had businesses which they owned and they were free to do what they wanted. Women were not being stoned there. You want more atrocities Saddam is a veritable nice guy compared to North Korea's nut job, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

In the end it's done - the American right has their view - but this notion that Freedom is on the march (lol people obviously know nothing of other cultures) and that America is safer makes anyone with brains chortle - it ain't true. Though in some ways this is good for Canada - our dollar has risen close to 20cents to the US dollar Since Bush came in and our dollar has always been good when Republicans have been in charge becuase your ecnomy is always in the DUMPER when the Republicans are governing -- we're now hovering around .80(Yee haw I see our dollar getting up to nearly par when Bush's term ends - hopefully you'll get another Republican after that). So in some ways I'm happy Bush is in charge - the growing Anti- Americanism will hopefully grow and grow and grow around the world - don't worry when you go to foreign countries and everyone treats you like crap - HINT - put a Canadian Flag on your shirt so they'll treat you a lot better.

I understand that people down there are moving to all Conservative communities deepening the divide between people sort of like Racism of political beliefs. Chevron did well though and you should all be able to drive your Hummer's around for a good 10 years more at reasonable gas prices. Please give me warning though when it's time to capture our water reserves -

Canada has it all and AMerica will soon run desperately low - Fresh Water will soon be way way more valuable a resource than oil for you folks -Just give me warning when it's time to take it - I want to change citizenship to hmmm, Australia maybe. Because Canada will no doubt be deemed a terrorist state with an evil dictator who bombed you even if it's someone elset. A year's warning is all so I can pack before my school is bombed and then I see on TV how great America is to build a school for me?? Yeah!!

[JSE]

Firstly no one argues that Saddam wasn't a bad guy. No one is saying he was Saddam Santa Clause.

However, Iraq did not start a war, Iraq didn't attack America - they may have had some tough talk but the fact remains that Condaleeza Rice and COlin Powel said before 9-11 that Iraq was fully contained and not a threat - Clinton said the same thing. Just because he's a democrat the info was still there by the military. As for schools - Ira is the most well educated country in the region they had businesses which they owned and they were free to do what they wanted. Women were not being stoned there. You want more atrocities Saddam is a veritable nice guy compared to North Korea's nut job, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

In the end it's done - the American right has their view - but this notion that Freedom is on the march (lol people obviously know nothing of other cultures) and that America is safer makes anyone with brains chortle - it ain't true. Though in some ways this is good for Canada - our dollar has risen close to 20cents to the US dollar Since Bush came in and our dollar has always been good when Republicans have been in charge becuase your ecnomy is always in the DUMPER when the Republicans are governing -- we're now hovering around .80(Yee haw I see our dollar getting up to nearly par when Bush's term ends - hopefully you'll get another Republican after that). So in some ways I'm happy Bush is in charge - the growing Anti- Americanism will hopefully grow and grow and grow around the world - don't worry when you go to foreign countries and everyone treats you like crap - HINT - put a Canadian Flag on your shirt so they'll treat you a lot better.

I understand that people down there are moving to all Conservative communities deepening the divide between people sort of like Racism of political beliefs. Chevron did well though and you should all be able to drive your Hummer's around for a good 10 years more at reasonable gas prices. Please give me warning though when it's time to capture our water reserves -

Canada has it all and AMerica will soon run desperately low - Fresh Water will soon be way way more valuable a resource than oil for you folks -Just give me warning when it's time to take it - I want to change citizenship to hmmm, Australia maybe. Because Canada will no doubt be deemed a terrorist state with an evil dictator who bombed you even if it's someone elset. A year's warning is all so I can pack before my school is bombed and then I see on TV how great America is to build a school for me?? Yeah!!

Actually, I hear our first target will be Soundhounds! Although, I am sure Audio Note will have created a very simple yet very effective defense system to ward off those pesky Americans. And Soundhounds will of course carry it. Acutally they will carry many of them because they bought out the remaining supply at a special price.


JSE