New Obama Controversy

[thekid]

Well I thought the election would have ended alot of this type of discussion but........

As for the canard re Obama's birth.......Information does not exist in a vacum and public records like birth certificates are not "controlled" by any special interest group. If people not aligned with the "liberal media" wanted to find out where Obama was born it would not be too hard. However that is not their goal, instead they would rather imply a problem rather than resolve it.

This is not the Little League World Series where someone just comes out of nowhere for 2 weeks charming the media while using doctored Birth Certificates and throwing fast balls. This election lasted 2 years with Obama being the front runner for at least 8 months so there were plenty of people who had a vested interest in uncovering the "fact" that Obama is not a citizen qualified to hold the highest office...........

[02audionoob]

We Americans all know almost the entire national media is extremely biased toward the left. The one exception is Fox News, which is very balanced and gives equal time to both sides.

[Ajani]

We Americans all know almost the entire national media is extremely biased toward the left. The one exception is Fox News, which is very balanced and gives equal time to both sides.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh God, that was the best one I've heard in ages....

Here in St. Kitts, people refer to Fox News simply as "The Republican Channel"....

I think Fox News' Conservative biases alone, more than balances out the entire "Liberal" Media....

[Auricauricle]

COUGH!!!!!

If there was any doubt about Obama's citizenship, I have little doubt it would have been cleared up and addressed before it came to a head and was worthy of even a whisper, let alone this infernal banter, here! Can't you guys think of anything more sustantive to discuss, like what sort of redecorating Michelle O's gonna do? I think the White House is way overdue. Perhaps some shag carpet and a velvet Elvis....

[ForeverAutumn]

Actually, given the way the law reads, it does matter.


Here's a credible source, as requested:

An Open Letter to
Barack Obama
By John Wallace
New York Campaign for Liberty
11-2-8

I know you are busy running for President of the greatest country in the world, but there are a couple of things about your background and qualifications for the office that concern me and many of my fellow Americans. Never before has a Presidential candidate failed to fully disclose routine information about their background that might help the voters make an informed choice in an election. It seems that many records concerning your background have either be been sealed or are temporarily unavailable for review. I know that any honest person like yourself, who is running for the highest office in the land, would never overtly want to keep such information from public review.
Here's a partial list:

1. Occidental College records -- Not released
2. Columbia College records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- Not available, locked down by faculty
4. Harvard College records -- Not released, locked down by faculty
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released (sealed?)
8. Certified Copy of Certification of Live Birth -- Not released (sealed?)
9. Birth records from Kenya -- (Sealed by the government of Kenya until after Election Day)
10. Your record of Christian Baptism -- Not released or unavailable
11. Illinois State Senate schedule - 'Not available'
12. Illinois State Senate records - Destroyed


I believe items #7,8 and 9 are the most critical and concern two issues that are very important to the American people:

1. Are Are you a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S.? and

2. Are you legally qualified to hold the Office of President?

In a recent federal court case in Pennsylvania, an American citizen, Philip Berg, filed a lawsuit claiming you were not a natural born citizen of the United States and therefore not qualified to be President. During that case, you never denied Mr. Berg's claims, but neither did you provid a valid birth certificate or other proof that you are a natural born citizen of the United States and therefore qualified under the Constitution to be President. Rather, you hid behind technicalities in the law to avoid the issue and the federal judge hearing the case dismissed Mr. Berg's lawsuit stating that Mr. Berg, acting as a "citizen," did not have legal standing to make such a challenge. This is a prime example of another outrageous decision by a federal judge to deny the American people their rights clearly outlined in the constitution.

There have been lawsuits filed, or currently being filed, in 7 or 8 states with various state Boards of Elections, claiming you are ineligible to be on their ballots because you have not produced proof that you are a natural born citizen of the United States. Mr. Obama, if you are truly and honorable man and a "Natural Born Citizen of the United States" you can clear up this issue very quickly. Just produce a certified copy of your birth certificate in any one of the names you have been know by (Barack Obama, Barry Soetoro, Barry Obama, Barack Dunham and Barry Dunham).
Your avoidance of the issue and your subsequent failure to prove you are a "Natural Born Citizen of the United States" is very suspicious and raises a very important constitutional issue that must be addressed before the November 4th election. Stop using legal technicalities, record sealing and courtroom maneuvers to avoid the issue. The American people have every constitutional right to know and they will eventually find out.

Try using honesty and truthfulness for a change and put this issue to rest. Either prove that you are a "Natural Born Citizen of the U.S." and are legally qualified to hold the Office of President, or withdraw the race.

If you do not do one of the other, the American people, regardless of party affiliation, will surely stand up and kick you out.

John Wallace
New York Campaign for Liberty
http://www.nycampaignforliberty.com/

This is what you consider a credible source? An editorial letter from a guy who plans on running for office on a Republican platform? My guess is that this so-called law suit gets laughed out of court.

It didn't take me more that two seconds to find a biography of Obama naming his birthplace as Hawaii. His dad is from Kenya, his mom from Kansas. http://www.barackobama.com/about/.

[trollgirl]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh God, that was the best one I've heard in ages....

Here in St. Kitts, people refer to Fox News simply as "The Republican Channel"....

I think Fox News' Conservative biases alone, more than balances out the entire "Liberal" Media....

Some folks refer to it as "Faux" News, in the spirit of "All the News that's Print to Fit."

FA, there are those who consider, and for reasons that seem good to them, that Obama's Hawaii birth cert is a complete fraud. Keep in mind that it is an after-the-fact document. Oh, and I can ply you with many more articles on this issue, and from a variety of sources.

Laz

[ForeverAutumn]

COUGH!!!!!

If there was any doubt about Obama's citizenship, I have little doubt it would have been cleared up and addressed before it came to a head and was worthy of even a whisper, let alone this infernal banter, here! Can't you guys think of anything more sustantive to discuss, like what sort of redecorating Michelle O's gonna do? I think the White House is way overdue. Perhaps some shag carpet and a velvet Elvis....

Oh, oh, oh. Or that picture of the dogs playing poker! I love that one.

[trollgirl]

Oh, oh, oh. Or that picture of the dogs playing poker! I love that one.

Any of those decor abominations (pun intended) should be grounds for impeachment. You know: high crimes AND misdemeanors.

[ForeverAutumn]

Some folks refer to it as "Faux" News, in the spirit of "All the News that's Print to Fit."

FA, there are those who consider, and for reasons that seem good to them, that Obama's Hawaii birth cert is a complete fraud. Keep in mind that it is an after-the-fact document. Oh, and I can ply you with many more articles on this issue, and from a variety of sources.

Laz

Don't waste your time Laz. I don't really care. I just didn't think that this particular source was credible. And I'm pretty sure that somebody would have taken the time to check for citizenship before any name landed on the ballot. It sounds like a great big conspiracy theory to me. And if it's not...well...it'll be fun to watch the **** fly.

[Auricauricle]

Ah the Dogs Playing Poker series. I have a relative who has the set in her beach house. 'Tis true, 'tis true....I like the velvet series, myself, as it plays so well against a blacklight. Trollgirl, yer just...harsh....Knowwhatimean? BTW: It really is amazing that Faux gets away with this shizu. I wonder if it's all a lampoon, but when I see people with gleams in their eyes and large, well developed teeth (like some unnameable contributers whose initials resemble F's and M's), I have to remind myself where I am....

[02audionoob]

While argument continues about what is known as "jus soli" Barack's a citizen based on "jus sanguinis".

[Auricauricle]

Isn't that jus ducky!

[02audionoob]

Isn't that jus ducky!

What does that mean?

[trollgirl]

What does that mean?

Have you ever played Duck, Duck, Goose?

[Mr Peabody]

Laz, that is trumped up internet crap that was spread before the election and has no merit what so ever. I know from news stories that most of those things on the list are not true which leads me to doubt any of them are.

FOX is as right wing as a so called news agency can be, in fact, most talk shows are right wing conservatives so if any of that stuff was anything other than embarrassing they'd be all over it.

It's pathetic when a party can't win on their own record so all they can do is spread lies to play on ignorant peoples fears.

The internet and email was plagued with false information about Obama spread by racists and the ignorant. You doubt, did you receive this crap in your box about Carey in the last election? Did we receive any McCain crazy email? As low as Bush's rating was, did emails go out about him? Sure Bush was made fun of a plenty but no one spreading out right lies like they did with Obama. Obama is the president and it's time to give it a rest. Those who don't like Obama will have to suck it up andlive with it just like every one had to live with Bush in the White House until last election.

[Groundbeef]

OMG. I about puked reading that people are still hung up on Obama, and whether he is a citizen or not. Here is a nice article to answer the question.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/po...citizen_y.html

Here is a little excerpt:

"This was clarified by the Civil Rights Act of April 9, 1866, which provided that 'All persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power are declared to be citizens of the United States.'"

"Senator Obama was born in the State of Hawaii two years after it became a state on Aug.21, 1959 As such, he acquired United States citizenship automatically at birth. While it is not necessary to go into all of the other legal errors contained in the posting (and there are many), the simple fact is that, with rare exceptions (children of diplomats), everyone born in the United States is a citizen of the United States at birth."

He has provided a copy of his Hawiian birth certificate as well.

Of note, it might also be pointed out that McCain wasn't born in the USA at all. However, he was born of US Citizens, thus making him a citizen anyways. I belive that he was also born on a US military base abroad. He could have been born in a cab in Poland though, and it still wouldn't have mattered.

[Ajani]

OMG. I about puked reading that people are still hung up on Obama, and whether he is a citizen or not.

Yeah, I know the feeling...

I think a lot of us (whether we were pro or anti Obama) are still trying to adjust to the fact that it's over.... Having gotten used to watching CNN daily , following all the polls and articles (even tuning into Fox News every now and again for a good laugh), it just feels so strange to no longer have any presidential politics to discuss...

As a foreigner, I can tell you that the funniest part of all this is that many of us foreigners were far more interested in the US elections than our own local ones...

[nightflier]

Boy this thread sure filled up in a couple of days. What is most disgusting about the questioning of Obama's birth, is what Mr.P pointed out: a white-haired pale-faced Republican presidential candidate never gets this kind of scrutiny and criticism. My friends overseas were absolutely appalled at the overt racism and bigotry that permeated this election. It makes us look rather dum and immature, folks. To put this in perspective, let's remember how much better a black person has always had to be to get on equal footing with someone who isn't black. Obama's qualifications in comparison with McCain's were such a painful case-in-point about this racist legacy we all contribute to, that it's amazing it has to be repeated once again.

As Grounbeef said: it's over. Obama won. So he's got a funny name, he's black, he's a moderate, he doesn't own a purebred dog, he actually knows what grassroots campaigns are, he wasn't born with a silver spoon in him mouth, and he's going to change things. Live with it, already. If you think about how miserable life has become for so many millions of people elsewhere in the world in the last eight years, this little conservative temper tantrum about not wanting to accept it, is odious to the extreme. So the economy isn't doing so well and some industries are hurting. Are you kidding me? There are people just south of our border, heck there are people on our own "reservations" and in our city ghettos who won't eat today. They'll be lucky to find clean water to drink. All these people wanted nothing more than Obama to win this thing and they could care less about whether he was a citizen or not.

I don't hear anybody here saying they're going to have to sell their $3K speakers to make ends meet, so I'm presuming things aren't all that bad with most of us on this forum. So stop with the wining about Obama's birth, you're starting to sound like Coulter, Limbaugh, and Dr. Laura, who just can't accept that the world is changing all around them. Not that these folks were ever that cheery or positive to begin with, but now at least they can justify the misery they fear. Well it's about time for these nitwits to be relegated back to the woodwork from where they emerged, and hopefully to stay there. That kind of thinking is not mainstream and it should never have received the kind of national attention that it did get. So for those who want to be counted with that sorry lot, go ahead and keep questioning Obama's legitimacy. In the meantime, the rest of society will be moving on.

It's over. Live with it. Pretty soon we'll all also see that it was the best thing that could have happened to us and that the alternative could never have measured up. In 4 years, when the economy is back in order, industry restored to manageable levels, jobs are created, education is once again given priority, most of our troops in Iraq are replaced by other peacekeepers, and we all have affordable health-care, we'll all be wondering why we were even having this discussion.

The fact is, it doesn't matter if Obama is foreign-born or not. From the cabinet that he's putting together it's obvious he cares deeply about fixing this country. He cares about the welfare of Americans and people all over the world, he is reaching across party lines, and he is an honorable, respectable, and a hardworking president-elect. He will change things, but is anyone really worried that he is going to do damage? Well Maybe Coulter, Limbaugh, and Dr. Laura might be - they could find themselves without an audience. But for the rest of Americans, there are no worries. Granted, Bush lowered the bar more than it has ever been, but that does not change the fact that he surpasses that level of mediocrity already, but perhaps more importantly that he will raise that bar, perhaps higher than we've ever seen.

So, trollgirl, why do you care so much about Obama's birth? It's not like you're worried about things getting any worse than they already are, is it? I mean does it really matter if Obama is Kenyan, Indonesian, or whatever? Has he ever indicated that his American upbringing isn't paramount to all that? If this really does trouble you, then maybe you will find common cause with the rest of the religious conservatives who are still hoping to find an audience.

The rest of us have moved on.

[02audionoob]

I think Barack's "funny name" helps alleviate some of the racial issue. I'll bet someone with a name like Harold Washington wouldn't have as good a chance as Barack Obama. Just a theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Washington

[trollgirl]

So, trollgirl, why do you care so much about Obama's birth? It's not like you're worried about things getting any worse than they already are, is it? I mean does it really matter if Obama is Kenyan, Indonesian, or whatever? Has he ever indicated that his American upbringing isn't paramount to all that? If this really does trouble you, then maybe you will find common cause with the rest of the religious conservatives who are still hoping to find an audience.

The rest of us have moved on.

You're right, you're absolutely right. The citizenship thing is almost a red herring isn't it? You know, what really worries me is Obama's political connections, how he came so rapidly from obscurity just like Bill Clinton, as if he had powerful and wealthy backers, his hawkishness, his proposals for a domestic army, and the veil over his past. Ah well, presidents are just errand boys these days, even sock puppets. Obama is going to be president because he swore to his Masters that he would do as he was told...

About the name thing, brought up by the previous poster: a co-worker of mine, Abdul by name, who is black, went to an Obama rally but was told by rally security that he needed more documents to present to them to show that he was safe. Other people have said that Obama would not be able to attend his own events.

Laz

[Feanor]

You're right, you're absolutely right. The citizenship thing is almost a red herring isn't it? You know, what really worries me is Obama's political connections, how he came so rapidly from obscurity just like Bill Clinton, as if he had powerful and wealthy backers, his hawkishness, his proposals for a domestic army, and the veil over his past. Ah well, presidents are just errand boys these days, even sock puppets. Obama is going to be president because he swore to his Masters that he would do as he was told...

About the name thing, brought up by the previous poster: a co-worker of mine, Abdul by name, who is black, went to an Obama rally but was told by rally security that he needed more documents to present to them to show that he was safe. Other people have said that Obama would not be able to attend his own events.

Laz

Let us please eschew character assassination based on rumor and innuendo.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I think Barack's "funny name" helps alleviate some of the racial issue. I'll bet someone with a name like Harold Washington wouldn't have as good a chance as Barack Obama. Just a theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Washington

I honestly thought at first his name was Osama Obama. Really. It sounds like poetry don't you think?

[Rich-n-Texas]

You're right, you're absolutely right. The citizenship thing is almost a red herring isn't it? You know, what really worries me is Obama's political connections, how he came so rapidly from obscurity just like Bill Clinton, as if he had powerful and wealthy backers, his hawkishness, his proposals for a domestic army, and the veil over his past. Ah well, presidents are just errand boys these days, even sock puppets. Obama is going to be president because he swore to his Masters that he would do as he was told...

About the name thing, brought up by the previous poster: a co-worker of mine, Abdul by name, who is black, went to an Obama rally but was told by rally security that he needed more documents to present to them to show that he was safe. Other people have said that Obama would not be able to attend his own events.

Laz

Fight the good fight Laz.

Let's see where the left-wingers are next March or April when liberal/socialist philosophies start to take hold.

[Feanor]

I think Barack's "funny name" helps alleviate some of the racial issue. I'll bet someone with a name like Harold Washington wouldn't have as good a chance as Barack Obama. Just a theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Washington

From a certain perspective, Obama isn't actually an "African-American". Sure, his father was African and his mother American but neither were African-Americans. His early upbring was largely by his white American grandparents and in a mainly white milieu. I suspect that Obama's electability was improved by the lack of cultural baggage that African-Americans, with their unhappy history, have to carry.

On the other hand I don't mean to imply that Obama doesn't understand African-Americans, given his work with them and marriage to one of their number. Nor do I imply that an African-American, struggling with baggage or not, is in the least degree ineligible to lead the United States.

[Ajani]

From a certain perspective, Obama isn't actually an "African-American". Sure, his father was African and his mother American but neither were African-Americans. His early upbring was largely by his white American grandparents and in a mainly white milieu. I suspect that Obama's electability was improved by the lack of cultural baggage that African-Americans, with their unhappy history, have to carry.

On the other hand I don't mean to imply that Obama doesn't understand African-Americans, given his work with them and marriage to one of their number. Nor do I imply that an African-American, struggling with baggage or not, is in the least degree ineligible to lead the United States.

Two points:

1) I find the distinction between who is Black/African American and who is 'mixed' to be seriously stupid... Racists don't look at Obama and think "Oh geez, he's part white so that makes him OK or one of us" or "he's only part black so we don't hate him as much as the full blacks"... He looks Black and so he'll be as 'discriminated against' as any other Black person.. in fact he might well have it worse, since Non-Blacks regard him as Black and many Blacks disown him... so he's a minority within a minority... Unfortunately for me, I fall into this category, so I know how stupid people can be....

2) The fact that he doesn't fit the Stereotype of the "Angry Black Man" or "Angry Minority" is a large part of why he could appeal to so many voters... No sane person (who is not part of that angry minority) is likely to vote for someone who probably hates them... I sure as hell wouldn't vote for an angry white man, so why would I expect a white person to vote for an angry black man? This is a point I've long argued to other minorities: You can't expect to get results and racial equality if you walk around with a chip on your shoulder... This is why leaders like Jesse Jackson have become irrelevant compared to calmer leaders like Obama...