Toshiba Launches XDE DVD

[Mr Peabody]

Interesting review. He lost me a bit when he gave I think the Onkyo a 10 and 9.7. Did he say that was with the Reon Edge turned off? Maybe this is a feature. But wouldn't that actually make the Onkyo better than the XDE since he only gave XDE the highest score of 8.2?

[Smokey]

Interesting review. He lost me a bit when he gave I think the Onkyo a 10 and 9.7. Did he say that was with the Reon Edge turned off? Maybe this is a feature. But wouldn't that actually make the Onkyo better than the XDE since he only gave XDE the highest score of 8.2?

If you look closely, you will note that high score of 10 and 9.7 for Onkyo were from HD-DVD 1080P, not UpConvert SD DVD

[pixelthis]

I'd like to see where it says Toshiba is losing money on these players. No one who has a successful corporation like Toshiba would be so dumb as to enter into a money losing project after the HD-DVD war. Either way though Toshiba has a big marketing issue trying to explain to consumers why this player is better than other upconverting DVD players. This player is about the same price as a HD-DVd player was. It may have a nitch though for those wanting a great DVD picture who may not need SACD playback or wanting to pay for it.

An article I read from Assc.. Press said they picture was sharper and clearer on big screen TV's compared to other upconverting DVD players but Toshiba did not show a comparison of the player to BR. They admit that BR has 6 times the picture capacity and BR is not their intended competition. Toshiba claims the intent was to give DVD a sharper clearer picture on large screen TV's. I have to admit though if one had to pay the money for a 1080p to reap full benefit of this player you might as well go BR and get the full benefit of 1080p. We also have to keep in mind that the closest priced BR player is more than double the price of this Toshiba player.

On one hand many in the industry say Blu-ray is just a nitch still but on the other hand I see a lot of DVD dumping going on. Those intent on staying or keeping DVD can pick them up cheap now. Will a DVD exodus snowball? It wouldn't seem so but it does look like retailers are positioning for one. I have to admit some of the cheap prices are tempting, I saw 3 Schwartzenager movies in a package for $10.00 and picked them up. A place here in town is advertising DVD 3 for $12.00. That's cheaper than renting.

CEDIA is only a couple weeks away so it will be interesting to see what new products will be coming for Fall and further down the road how consumers vote with their dollars.

Pix, which BR player did you end up with?

Sorry for the late reply.
I have a friend that has to buy three of one thing, keeps taking stuff back, guess it extends the buying experience for him.
I set up his DSL and his new system, piped his computer sound and video to his HT, basic stuff, and he offered to let me have his Sony
BDPS300, ninety days same as cash.
So I wouldnt have to wait for the vacation pay.
HE got the Samsung, probably a lot like yours. No offense but I LIKE THE UPCONVERSION on the Sony better.
My main holdout on BLU was software, how would my collection of
"legacy" discs hold up?
Well so far so good, every disapointment (Italian job) has several
quality "upconversions" that rival BLU.
Anyway Blu players are getting cheaper ( a sony 300 was selling for 269, cant remember where I saw that) so I think it would be silly to buy
a comparable priced DVD player, weather OPPO , tosh or otherwise.
Just doesnt make sense, really.
upconverted discs are watchable, some are really amazing, but even the best pale in comparison to a decent BLU disc.
And its kinda like the phenom where that VHS tape you watch after weeks of DVD watching really looks like crap squared.
WELL, people buying these expensive "upconverters" are gonna be watching HD on the tube, mostly, and after watching real HD
for awhile any kind of "upconverted" anything will be disapointing.
A movie on disc is an "event", I WANT IT TO LOOK BETTER THAN REGULAR TV, and Blu does that, but since "regular" TV is HD, DVD
comes up short.
BLU wont kill off DVD like DVD killed laser, different situation,
but I think Blu will minimize DVD a great deal.
In other words you were right MR P, a BLU player is a great bargain,
especially since most now have HD sets, you can buy 1080p for 300 bucks or less, and thats not even mentioning the audio.
A lot of BLU DISCS are DTS, giving a meg and a half worth of sound
to those (the majority) with older gear, even the "plain" DD and dts
on Blu discs is better by far than even the best DVD.
People opting for a "regular" DVD player, especially the golden ears types, forget this. Music lovers trying to decide. DVD or BLU,
get a concert disc like DAVE MATHEWS , instead of standard movie
fare, listen to one of those not with one of the newer soundtracks,
but one of the "standard" DD or dts tracks.
That alone should comvince you to go blu.
And yes I STILL WATCH quite a bit of VOD, and am dlw even more from sites like VUZE, but BLU is the "event" I enjoy for something special.

[pixelthis]

Idon't disagree that quality jump might not be huge (better is probably more accurate), but you also have to consider the content also. I must have seen T2 and Fifth Element (have FE on Superbit) 100 times already, and don't think be spending more money on same title just for sake of better resolution and color.

And once the wow factor is gone , we re back to square one as far as content is concern. I rather spend on a movie on DVD that have not seen before.

Also check out this exhausting review where the reviewer put Toshiba DVD player against Onkyo DV-HD805 and Oppo DV-981HD upconvert players which cost 2 to 3 times more than Toshiba. And results are eye opener.

http://www.amazon.com/review/product...R211E844VYQ78D



In Rodney King voice......

"Can't we all get along without name calling"

no

You do know that tosh and Onkyo have a very close business relationship dont you?
Heres probably the best idea, just get a BLU player and the newest tosh "gimmick", around 450 bucks and you get the best of both worlds.
I would buy a tosh if I THOUGHT THE UPCONVERSION was much better than on my Sony Blu player, just to watch dvd on.
But I dont think it will be worth it, really

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

It would seem simple enough economics that IF a corporation lost 950 million dollars and wanted to stay in business they would not knowingly put a product on the market that would loose more money. So maybe you can break it down for me how continuous loss leads to profit.

Sorry peabrain, I didn't design Toshiba's business plan. They knew they were going to lose the HD on disc war, that didn't stop them from entering the market did it?

Terry you blurtted out an assumption you can't back up and all the name dropping from your imaginary friends can't cover your butt. So take a lesson from an old man, keep your mouth shut so you can't insert your foot. If my brain is small you shouldn't be picking on me. Shame on you for harassing the handicapped.

Peahead, I have learned not to put pearls before swine. You are too stupid to realize that maybe someone is more up on this subject than yourself. So, if my friends are imaginary, then you will just have to sit on your thumb, and believe your own press.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sir Terrance does NOT like to be contradicted. If you make that mistake you are likely to be called an ignorant peabrain and a liar.

Actually Feanor, don't mind being contradicted at all. What I don't like is a no brained idiot who doesn't even know how HDMI works telling me stuff that is direct contridiction to the professionals who actually program Toshiba's Cell chips. Since the gentleman programs the chips, and knows the part cost to the player, it would seem to me that he would know more than some peahead that has never even broken a player open.

[Feanor]

Actually Feanor, don't mind being contradicted at all. What I don't like is a no brained idiot who doesn't even know how HDMI works telling me stuff that is direct contridiction to the professionals who actually program Toshiba's Cell chips. Since the gentleman programs the chips, and knows the part cost to the player, it would seem to me that he would know more than some peahead that has never even broken a player open.

Unlike Mr. Peabody, I'm not calling into question your buddyship with industry insiders, I'm questioning the choice of words in your rejoinder to him and various other people at various times.

But bearing on Toshiba's costs, unless your buddy actually knows the actual price negociated with Toshiba, you can't be entirely certain whether the latter is losing money on account of the chip. I dare say the chips have their MSRPs just like most stuff, but what the particular customer pays can be a different matter.

[Mr Peabody]

Sorry peabrain, I didn't design Toshiba's business plan. They knew they were going to lose the HD on disc war, that didn't stop them from entering the market did it?

* Another lame statement pulled from your back side. You have no way of supporting that statement. Toshiba fought a hard fight and I can still remember the doom and gloom in the BR camp when Paramount was bought to be HD-DVD exclusive. It wouldn't have taken much for things to go the other way.

Peahead, I have learned not to put pearls before swine. You are too stupid to realize that maybe someone is more up on this subject than yourself. So, if my friends are imaginary, then you will just have to sit on your thumb, and believe your own press.

* There could be some one more up on things but it isn't you. You are a wanna be, blow hard. For some one with all the inside info you don't give any more info or predictions than Pix or anyone else here. The only thing you are up on is your mouth.

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks, Smokey, for clearing that up.

[Mr Peabody]

Actually Feanor, don't mind being contradicted at all. What I don't like is a no brained idiot who doesn't even know how HDMI works telling me stuff that is direct contridiction to the professionals who actually program Toshiba's Cell chips. Since the gentleman programs the chips, and knows the part cost to the player, it would seem to me that he would know more than some peahead that has never even broken a player open.

* Terry, you are such a clown. Even though I posted enough links to info to show you are a fool, you still think you were right and want to claim I don't know HDMI. If you are going to bring up old discussions into new ones to use as reference, why don't you post the link to bring everyone up to speed, But you want to use insinuation to lie and make yourself look like something you aren't.

Besides this is supposed to be a forum where people can come to share ideas and information NOT to be belittled or put down because they weren't the first one to know. Terry you are a pathetic excuse of a human who feels he has to put down others to make yourself look better. I wonder if you really have others here fooled with your charade or they just don't want to come under fire from your nasty verbal assault. If anyone analyzed your posts and looked more for what is not said opposed to what was said they'd soon realize you are a poser.

[pixelthis]

* Terry, you are such a clown. Even though I posted enough links to info to show you are a fool, you still think you were right and want to claim I don't know HDMI. If you are going to bring up old discussions into new ones to use as reference, why don't you post the link to bring everyone up to speed, But you want to use insinuation to lie and make yourself look like something you aren't.

Besides this is supposed to be a forum where people can come to share ideas and information NOT to be belittled or put down because they weren't the first one to know. Terry you are a pathetic excuse of a human who feels he has to put down others to make yourself look better. I wonder if you really have others here fooled with your charade or they just don't want to come under fire from your nasty verbal assault. If anyone analyzed your posts and looked more for what is not said opposed to what was said they'd soon realize you are a poser.

Finally, someone who realizes that someone with this maturity level
cant be all he says.
I am not talking about the "name calling", but the quality of it.
Pea brain? CANT YOU DO BETTER THAN THAT?
Doo Doo head

[Feanor]

...

Pea brain? CANT YOU DO BETTER THAN THAT?
Doo Doo head

Like "Doo Doo head" for instance??????

[pixelthis]

Like "Doo Doo head" for instance??????

IF you don't get that one you're hopeless.
Get a job as an accountant or something

[pixelthis]

Or go and get one of those new XDE players!!!
You sound like the target market

[Feanor]

IF you don't get that one you're hopeless.
Get a job as an accountant or something

I was an accountant for many years.

[GMichael]

I got it. Wasn't all that funny.

You guys sure do like to fight. A person could make a small fortune selling rotten eggs and old tomatoes around here.

Where's LJ with that popcorn?

[O'Shag]

This player must be decent for Toshiba to go to the trouble of streamlining the technology and releasing it. As far as I can remember the Toshiba HD-DVDs were among the better performing out there. With this technology there must be some merit to it. The way I see it, $150 is not a lot to ask for much improved picture quality. The price of BluRay software is still too high. If that software is to become the defacto standard it will have to drop way down in price, ie $12 - $20 for software. Only then will it replace DVD entirely. If Target,WalMart, or Circuit City for instance had many Blu Ray movies for sale at $7.50 $9.50 and $13.00, then it would replace DVD completely - after all the players are affordable now.

But this is not the case. So Toshiba have released a player that makes the most out of what is still the standard for the vast amjority of shoppers; standard definition DVD. Well done Toshiba.

[pixelthis]

I got it. Wasn't all that funny.

You guys sure do like to fight. A person could make a small fortune selling rotten eggs and old tomatoes around here.

Where's LJ with that popcorn?

Like you need rotten eggs(butterbeans for lunch? HMMMM?)
Anyway this player is a dumb idea with no market whatsoever.
Guarentee ya it'll be gone in a year, if it lasts that long

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Unlike Mr. Peabody, I'm not calling into question your buddyship with industry insiders, I'm questioning the choice of words in your rejoinder to him and various other people at various times.

I understand that you may not like what I say to these people, and that is okay. But my response to them is at exactly at the level they are. I would prefer that unknowledgeable people recognize exactly what they are, and stop trying to be more than they are. That way anyone can take their advice in the right context, or not at all. We already have too much misinformation on this board, and if this board is about exchanging accurate info, then we do not need anymore.

But bearing on Toshiba's costs, unless your buddy actually knows the actual price negociated with Toshiba, you can't be entirely certain whether the latter is losing money on account of the chip. I dare say the chips have their MSRPs just like most stuff, but what the particular customer pays can be a different matter.

My buddy knows the price that Toshiba paid for each of the components that went into that player, or else he would not have ever made the claim. He predicted that Samsung would abandon the Reon chips in their players after the 1200 came out because of the cost of implementing the chip into the player at that time, and the price points they where trying to meet at the time (less than $500) He was totally right. The 1400 came out, no reon chip. The 1500 came out, no reon chip. Both of these players are priced at below $500. He also said that Samsung was sold on the reon chip, but would only include it in players that are being priced at $600+. He was right again. The 2500 comes out with the reon chip, at its set to be priced at $700.

One you put in a chip like the Cell processor, or the reon upscaler, the cost of all downstream components becomes more expensive as well, or you will never get the quality of of them that the chip can provide. Kjack quite frankly has never been wrong about anything he has said, and there nothing that makes me disbelieve him this time. Since he is face deep in this business, and Mr Nobody is not, I would definately take his word over nobody's. The Cell processor in this implementation cost Toshiba about $60 by itself(the PS3 chip costs $90) in each player, even though they manufacture it themselves. Since his company programs these chips, he knows every part in the player itself, and knows the cost of each of the components as well.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

* Terry, you are such a clown. Even though I posted enough links to info to show you are a fool, you still think you were right and want to claim I don't know HDMI. If you are going to bring up old discussions into new ones to use as reference, why don't you post the link to bring everyone up to speed, But you want to use insinuation to lie and make yourself look like something you aren't.

Your words:I've been told that when 2 pieces connect via HDMI that they share over 20 signals to see what each other can handle etc. So far this is just things I've been told, I haven't had a chance to really do much research on the matter

Mr. Nobody, the link you posted does not support your claim of 20 different communications going on in the HDMI protocol. Maybe you need to read it again

http://www.hdmi.org/devcon/presentat...ge_English.pdf

I think you are mixing up communications with data streams, though you would still be wrong on both accounts. If you carefully read what the new standard says, It is improving on what is already established, and adding a few new features, that by the way, no current component supports. Televisions may support xvycc, and deep color, and even the PS3 can output it. But it is not in the bluray standards(disc capacity would have to get larger than 50GB to support it) it wasn't in the HD DVD standards, and it is not in any component devices standards that I know of, so you would not find that stream in any current HDMI implementation. Lip sync is part of the standard, but A/V receivers already have that adjustment within them, so there is no need to pass that through HDMI. Dolby trueHD and Dts MA lossless bitstreams were added, but that is just two bitstreams that may or may not be present depending on if the player does the decoding, or the receiver does it. We still have not gotten to twenty communication have we? LOL Then they added a new connection for digital mini cams and digital cameras. Sorry, that would not be a communication would it? They added greater bandwidth. The problem is, there is nothing now that challenges the bandwidth we currently have. Please read your link(I even provided it for you) and clearly tell me where 20 different communications between two components are taking place. It does not take 20 different communications for two components to optimize and communicate the resolution of the display device to the output of the player. It takes just one from each component.

Besides this is supposed to be a forum where people can come to share ideas and information NOT to be belittled or put down because they weren't the first one to know. Terry you are a pathetic excuse of a human who feels he has to put down others to make yourself look better. I wonder if you really have others here fooled with your charade or they just don't want to come under fire from your nasty verbal assault. If anyone analyzed your posts and looked more for what is not said opposed to what was said they'd soon realize you are a poser.

You feel belittled because you now find that you don't know as much as you think you do. What good would the information be if it where not ACCURATE information, not just information. You seem to think that you can just post information, and that is the end. But if you information is not accurate, then it is not doing any good for anyone. You cannot attempt to take the high road and talk about belittling when you call me a name that isn't mine, and you throw verbal assaults yourself. Being a victim and a perpetrator is not possible.

How can you possibly analyze anything I say and determine that I am just a poser, when you do not understand the information yourself? You are alot of mouth, but you have yet to prove that I am inaccurate enough in my information to be dismissed as a mere "poser". When you make claims like this, you have to actually support it with information, or its just words. You are good at spreading just words, with no support whatsoever. You really cannot belittle a person that was not all that big in the first place.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

This player must be decent for Toshiba to go to the trouble of streamlining the technology and releasing it. As far as I can remember the Toshiba HD-DVDs were among the better performing out there. With this technology there must be some merit to it. The way I see it, $150 is not a lot to ask for much improved picture quality. The price of BluRay software is still too high. If that software is to become the defacto standard it will have to drop way down in price, ie $12 - $20 for software. Only then will it replace DVD entirely. If Target,WalMart, or Circuit City for instance had many Blu Ray movies for sale at $7.50 $9.50 and $13.00, then it would replace DVD completely - after all the players are affordable now.

Actually Toshiba's PLAYERS were not the best performing at all. HD DVD standards were complete(which is still a dubious claim when they starting trying to push TL51), but the players were known for freezing up, skipping, or would not play back some discs at all. I own three HD DVD players, and one had to be replaced three times(the A1) before one was acceptable for playback, the other twice(A-35), and the third required two extra firmware updates(and a trip back to the factory for both) past the ones actually released to the public to get it to playback 24fps content correctly. As far as the pricing of discs, bluray is only on the average $5 more expensive than their DVD counterparts on new releases, so to me this is a red herring of an arguement. HD discs should be more money because you are getting a superior products on all fronts. Right now DVD is being bargained binned on older releases, so its largely cheaper price is artificial to move product.

Now to the XDE-500. It's processing does not work with display devices that do not have a resolution of 1080i/p, so all of the 720p folks are crap out of luck with this player. You cannot use all three processing modes at once, only two. It does no do resume play like all other DVD players do. The actually video chipset they use is an old Zoran chipset, but with new software doing all of the work(having a cell processor in it helps tremendously I am sure). If you want to draw an opinion based on users opinions, they are all over the place. So I decided to give one a try(its only 150 bucks, and could return it.) On my freshly calibrated 1080p RPTV and Sony G-90 projector at 1080p, the sharpness setting produced a sharper picture, to the point of unnatural making film based material look more video based. The contrast mode changed my gamma curve from the proper curve for both video and film, to an improper curve for both. When a display devices is properly calibrated, you do not need this enhancement. It is mainly for non calibrated setups that are looking to add salt and pepper to a perfect tasting dish. The color setting mainly focused on green and blue, and really didn't enhance anything else. One good thing about this player is that the sharpness application is dynamic and not fixed. So the processing is frame by frame, and not just one setting for all frames.

IMO(and it is just that) XDE is much better for those who have not calibrated their sets, like post enhancements so they can tweak to their own taste(and not abide by SMPTE standards), do not mind having their gamma curve changed, especially when it wasn't right in the first place, have sets or experience with upconverting players with poor deinterlacers(which most have), hence the need for sharpening of the image POST upconversion. If your television is properly calibrated, has a good deinterlacer(not many have), then this player is neither accurate nor particularly flattering if the object of obtaining accuracy true to the encoding is your bottom line. It does not perform miracles, that is for sure. A poorly encoded disc will still look bad(and I found worse) through the Toshiba.

But this is not the case. So Toshiba have released a player that makes the most out of what is still the standard for the vast amjority of shoppers; standard definition DVD. Well done Toshiba.

You might want to audition one before you congratulate them. The reviews are all over the place. What I have noticed from comments I have read is the player will appeal to a certain type of viewer, but not to others. What I mean by that is those who believe firmly in accuracy will not like this player at all. Those folks usually go to the trouble of calibrating their sets(whether they pay for it, or do it themselves), and have gone through the painstaking process of choosing a upconverting player with good deinterlacing.(that is the key to good upconversion, not the upconversion process itself) Those who like to tweak to taste, and accuracy be damned, will probably love it. Lastly I just want to add that if you have a display smaller than perhaps 50", forget about noticing the difference between the XDE processing, and just a common ordinary upconverting DVD player. This players processing bad or good is much more noticeable on displays that are 60" and more with the proper seating distance. Beware of any review that states they are watching it on a 50" sitting 9-10 feet away. It is more likely the reviewer likes sprinkling the salt and pepper rather than actually tasting it.

[Mr Peabody]

Blu-ray discs are at least $15.00 higher than a DVD on new releases.

Terry, if you really went back to that old thread provide that link. I doubt I posted the link you already posted since I avoid PDF like the plague and the first few pages didn't sound familiar and I'm not about to read all 40 or so. Furthermore, I'm not going to argue an argument we've already had.

[Mr Peabody]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]I understand that you may not like what I say to these people, and that is okay. But my response to them is at exactly at the level they are. I would prefer that unknowledgeable people recognize exactly what they are, and stop trying to be more than they are. That way anyone can take their advice in the right context, or not at all. We already have too much misinformation on this board, and if this board is about exchanging accurate info, then we do not need anymore.

> Yeah, heaven forbid we have any more "accurate" information

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Blu-ray discs are at least $15.00 higher than a DVD on new releases.

Terry, if you really went back to that old thread provide that link. I doubt I posted the link you already posted since I avoid PDF like the plague and the first few pages didn't sound familiar and I'm not about to read all 40 or so. Furthermore, I'm not going to argue an argument we've already had.

Nobody, this is just as I figured. Alot of mouth, nothing to support the lip service. If you doubt what you posted, I'll refresh your very small mind.

Silicon Optix HQV Question

Post #19

I used the PDF form of the same information that was done in HTML. You are at the least a cowardly spinless person who throws rocks, and then runs. In all three of the links you provided, there was not one mention of 20 different communication exchanges between two devices. Once again, if you actually understood what you posted, you would be embarrassed that you were still trying to advance the 20 different communication arguement, and think you were right. You are a joke that is just not funny.

New release blurays are not $15 more expensive than DVD. Amazon

Iron man DVD $22.95

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ND3TQ07DQ1PPWB

Bluray $27.95
http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Man-Ultim...0222006&sr=1-1

Nightmare Before Christmas DVD $22.95
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ND3TQ07DQ1PPWB

Nightmare before Christmas Bluray $27.95
http://www.amazon.com/Nightmare-Befo...0222006&sr=1-3

Indiana Jones DVD $22.95
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ND3TQ07DQ1PPWB

Bluray $27.95
http://www.amazon.com/Indiana-Jones-...0226212&sr=1-2

I could go on with even more narrow price differences, but I think I have made my point.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

[QUOTE=Mr Peabody]

I understand that you may not like what I say to these people, and that is okay. But my response to them is at exactly at the level they are. I would prefer that unknowledgeable people recognize exactly what they are, and stop trying to be more than they are. That way anyone can take their advice in the right context, or not at all. We already have too much misinformation on this board, and if this board is about exchanging accurate info, then we do not need anymore.

> Yeah, heaven forbid we have any more "accurate" information

No chance of that with you, you can't even get the basics right.