Silicon Optix HQV Question

[nightflier]

Is there an advantage to having a TV with Silicon Optix HQV processing (such as Olevia's 747i) as well as a player (such as the Samsung BD-P1500) with the same chipset?

[elapsed]

I can't see an advantage to both devices having HQV video processing - my preference would be towards the TV having HQV, this will benefit all of your sources. Then be sure to output native resolution from your sources to get the strongest video processing (for instance, output 480i from your DVD player if at all possible, and allow the set to perform the upconversion and processing).

[Mr Peabody]

Does the 1500 have the Silicon Optix chip? The generation after the 1200 did not. It would be great if Samsung went back to using the chip but I have my doubts they did. The 1500 is still very new and I haven't seen a feature list that gives the video chip or chips used. The newer machines all went with a single video chip that did both HD and SD made by Sigma Design and the SD playback suffered.

[nightflier]

Does the 1500 have the Silicon Optix chip?

Oops, I meant the 1200. Here's a partial list of supported hardware:

http://www.hqv.com/products.cfm

I'm leaning towards the Denon DVD-2500BT, but at $1K, that's still a bit steep, especially since I can buy Toshiba's XA2 for $50, although I would then only use it for DVD upscaling.

Maybe I'm not asking the right question.

What is so special about the Silicon Optix HQV chip? And if it is special, then why would I want it in the TV and not the source? Also, are there lesser versions of the chip that I should stay clear of?

[bobsticks]

I'm under the impression that as long as the television has a native resolution of 1080p that it won't rescale anything that's fed to it. This may be cost effective depending on how often you upgrade, especially since the newest VXP/Gennum chip reportedly outdoes the SO.

I recognize elapsed point but, at the same time, if you're insistent on being cutting edge it may or may not be more cost effective to replace the player rather than the TV. In other words you might wait a minute and see if SO-based chip machines become less expensive through the trickledown process.

[Mr Peabody]

The Silicon Optix chip does very good DVD playback. The 1200 has separate chips for HD and SD. You should check Amazon.com for the 1200, I bought a refurb for $266.00. The 1200 lacks the newest HD audio decoding and you will need to make sure the firmware is up to date but it's DVD playback is unrivalled in BR players. You might be able to find the CNET review of the 1200. The upscaling and where it is best done is a mystery to me and all I can say is one just has to experiment. I can say that the 1200's I have look excellent in both HD and SD with my Sony tube and Toshiba DLP.

The only chip I'd say be weary of, and this is only for DVD playback, is the Sigma Design. Reviews of all current machines show the Sigma fails many DVD video tests on test discs. The Sigma is a single chip used now that does both HD and SD. The Sigma seems to do very well on BR discs but one reviewer when talking about the DVD playback said, "I've seen better pictures on a sub $99.00 DVD player".

Sir T and I have been debating this DVD playback thing, I maintain BR players should still do good DVD playback, while ST says it's not necessary and ain't going to happen anymore. So are you willing to buy a $399.00 or so BR player and buy a separate DVD player like the Oppo to get good DVD playback? Another consideration for me and I'd think others as well is simple shelf space. In today's multi-media world space is important. I just don't understand why it's such a problem to go back to good DVD playback.

[pixelthis]

The Silicon Optix chip does very good DVD playback. The 1200 has separate chips for HD and SD. You should check Amazon.com for the 1200, I bought a refurb for $266.00. The 1200 lacks the newest HD audio decoding and you will need to make sure the firmware is up to date but it's DVD playback is unrivalled in BR players. You might be able to find the CNET review of the 1200. The upscaling and where it is best done is a mystery to me and all I can say is one just has to experiment. I can say that the 1200's I have look excellent in both HD and SD with my Sony tube and Toshiba DLP.

The only chip I'd say be weary of, and this is only for DVD playback, is the Sigma Design. Reviews of all current machines show the Sigma fails many DVD video tests on test discs. The Sigma is a single chip used now that does both HD and SD. The Sigma seems to do very well on BR discs but one reviewer when talking about the DVD playback said, "I've seen better pictures on a sub $99.00 DVD player".

Sir T and I have been debating this DVD playback thing, I maintain BR players should still do good DVD playback, while ST says it's not necessary and ain't going to happen anymore. So are you willing to buy a $399.00 or so BR player and buy a separate DVD player like the Oppo to get good DVD playback? Another consideration for me and I'd think others as well is simple shelf space. In today's multi-media world space is important. I just don't understand why it's such a problem to go back to good DVD playback.

Afraid you're tilting at a windmill.
It seems that the industry has already decided the issue.
it may seem wrong headed now, but a few years down the road, when everything
is blu and dvd has taken the place of other obsolete formats you will wonder what you were fussing about.
I HAVE A CLOSET full of laserdiscs, some costing upwards of 60 bucks each,
thought once that one of those cheap players off of ebay might allow me to enjoy them some, but finally decided to say bye to that format.
Someday my DVD collection will be parked next to it, just a matter of time.
Remember the "HQ" improvements in VCR'S that came out a few years after the vcr came out?
They were incorporated into the format quite seamlessly.
Seems like blu will be the same way, incorporated into the dvd format .
Or maybe be like SVHS, ignored completely.

[nightflier]

The Silicon Optix chip does very good DVD playback. The 1200 has separate chips for HD and SD. You should check Amazon.com for the 1200, I bought a refurb for $266.00. The 1200 lacks the newest HD audio decoding and you will need to make sure the firmware is up to date but it's DVD playback is unrivalled in BR players. You might be able to find the CNET review of the 1200. The upscaling and where it is best done is a mystery to me and all I can say is one just has to experiment. I can say that the 1200's I have look excellent in both HD and SD with my Sony tube and Toshiba DLP.

The only chip I'd say be weary of, and this is only for DVD playback, is the Sigma Design. Reviews of all current machines show the Sigma fails many DVD video tests on test discs. The Sigma is a single chip used now that does both HD and SD. The Sigma seems to do very well on BR discs but one reviewer when talking about the DVD playback said, "I've seen better pictures on a sub $99.00 DVD player".

Sir T and I have been debating this DVD playback thing, I maintain BR players should still do good DVD playback, while ST says it's not necessary and ain't going to happen anymore. So are you willing to buy a $399.00 or so BR player and buy a separate DVD player like the Oppo to get good DVD playback? Another consideration for me and I'd think others as well is simple shelf space. In today's multi-media world space is important. I just don't understand why it's such a problem to go back to good DVD playback.

So it seems the best option is to have the chip in the TV, then? That way, no matter what I feed it, the TV will do the conversion. I guess that leads me back to the Olevia 747i. At $1100, it's just a screaming deal. It's motion blur is very minimal so eventhough it does not have 120Hz, it's still at the top of my list. And this way I can wait a little while before I buy the BR player (currently I'm borrowing a PS3, but everything else I have is either component or DVI - so I haven't been doing much with it).

I agree that it makes little sense having two players. I've been giving serious thought to the latest Panasonic player just because it has such good audio support, but there are a other issues with that player. Since I also still don't have the pre/pro I want, I suppose I still have some research to do.

[natronforever]

So Nightflier, have you seen the 747i? What are your thoughts? Man, I've been looking at it a lot lately, because of it's low price, but I can't bring myself to pull the trigger, so to speak. It's hard for me to buy something so big online. If something goes wrong, it's such a hassle. Are you going to be purchasing it soon?

[Mr Peabody]

Buying online you want to try to use a reputable site. Read the site to see if there are any restocking fees on returns and what their return policy is. Down the road problems are usually taken care under warranty and can be done locally. Most any retailer on or off line is usually more than willing to sell you an extended warranty for more protection.

I bought my 62" DLP from www.crutchfield.com as well as a host of other things and can highly recommend them. I bought a Sharp LCD from some place online and that transaction went smoothly, I saved enough to get an extra warranty on it. It goes against my grain to promote online buying but anymore a local store don't do anything more for you. They don't help with warranty, or anything. The only thing you get is a pimply face, minimum wage, poor individual forced to hear the wrath of disgruntalled customers.

If you buy online with a good credit card company it gives you a bit more added protection. Discover usually doesn't have the lowest rate but they have been great on detecting credit card theft and taking a charge back report right on the phone. Some credit cards want you to fill out a form and send it back.

What I'm trying to say is buying online from an established retailer is not a big deal and shouldn't be a concern. Look around many will even give you free shipping. Amazon.com is another good place to buy online, if they don't sell it themselves you can still buy through them and the other site ships it. So establishing an account with them is an option.

[pixelthis]

Buying online you want to try to use a reputable site. Read the site to see if there are any restocking fees on returns and what their return policy is. Down the road problems are usually taken care under warranty and can be done locally. Most any retailer on or off line is usually more than willing to sell you an extended warranty for more protection.

I bought my 62" DLP from www.crutchfield.com as well as a host of other things and can highly recommend them. I bought a Sharp LCD from some place online and that transaction went smoothly, I saved enough to get an extra warranty on it. It goes against my grain to promote online buying but anymore a local store don't do anything more for you. They don't help with warranty, or anything. The only thing you get is a pimply face, minimum wage, poor individual forced to hear the wrath of disgruntalled customers.

If you buy online with a good credit card company it gives you a bit more added protection. Discover usually doesn't have the lowest rate but they have been great on detecting credit card theft and taking a charge back report right on the phone. Some credit cards want you to fill out a form and send it back.

What I'm trying to say is buying online from an established retailer is not a big deal and shouldn't be a concern. Look around many will even give you free shipping. Amazon.com is another good place to buy online, if they don't sell it themselves you can still buy through them and the other site ships it. So establishing an account with them is an option.

Crutch is a good company but they charge retail.
AND some bad news MR. P, just read a review of Pannys new blu player,
and it was rather, shall we say estatic?
THE 1.1 PLAYER loads faster, looks great, but guess what?
STANDARD DVD playback sux.
So it looks like the trend is continuing.
Sorry Mr P

[nightflier]

So Nightflier, have you seen the 747i? What are your thoughts? Man, I've been looking at it a lot lately, because of it's low price, but I can't bring myself to pull the trigger, so to speak. It's hard for me to buy something so big online. If something goes wrong, it's such a hassle. Are you going to be purchasing it soon?

The 747i is selling at MicroCenter in Tustin, CA at $1100, even with tax, it still cheaper than Tiger or Amazon. Also, Syntax Brillian which makes Olevias, is right here in SoCal as well, so I can always shlep the TV over there if I need to. Who knows maybe I'll buy it this weekend...

The 747i, by the way, is a friggin' 123 lbs. monster. The image is 47" exactly (I measured it), but the glass plate in front of it adds another 2" all the way around (kind of like the Sony XBR). The speakers are removable, and hanging on a wall w/o the speakers it makes for a truly stunning screen. Next to the other LCDs in the store, it looks a bit less bright, but that won't matter inside the home and that SO chip really does work miracles, at least from everything the sales reps let me throw at it. I'll tell you weighing the Samsung A650 40 inches against the Olevia's 47 inches, not to mention that the latter costs $400 less, makes me wonder why I don't just buy it. I was considering this TV back when it was $2500, so now it's really hard to resist.

FYI: if the 747i is a bit too large, Olevia also has a 42 inch 742i, that has identical specs and weighs less, too. Shipping should be less expensive and will probably experience less problems with the shippers.

If you're worried about buying online, the absolute best customer service I've ever received was from Crutchfield, but you pay for that, though. They also don't offer extended warranties, if that's important to you, but they do honor their own warranty extremely well. As Pix said, you'll pay retail for that, but if you care about service, then there are few places that have as good of a reputation.

(And they carry Thiel and PS Audio as well.)

[natronforever]

Tiger is now selling it for $999. Now I'm really thinking.

[Mr Peabody]

I've seen links for extended warranty through Crutchfield you have to click on the item and go into the particulars. They do mostly stick to retail but run some deals on stuff, you just have to shop them.

Pix, I've got two 1200's to hold me over for a while. If I upgrade my processor some day then I will keep my eye out for one of the higher end units with the realto to come down in price or some one to give a deal.

[nightflier]

So just to bring this to a close, there is no communication between two devices using the HQV chipset, not even over HDMI 1.3+?

[Mr Peabody]

I'm not exactly sure of the particulars of the communication problem, I think it's just a quirky thing between only certain brands. I've been told that when 2 pieces connect via HDMI that they share over 20 signals to see what each other can handle etc. So far this is just things I've been told, I haven't had a chance to really do much research on the matter. I thought our resident insider know-it-all might chime in. You know there have been problems in the past with certain brands working with Denon receivers and such I think it's a similar situation. It's a pain for those who have to deal with it but the companies usually iron it out eventually. I'll try to find out more and post back.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'm not exactly sure of the particulars of the communication problem, I think it's just a quirky thing between only certain brands. I've been told that when 2 pieces connect via HDMI that they share over 20 signals to see what each other can handle etc. So far this is just things I've been told, I haven't had a chance to really do much research on the matter. I thought our resident insider know-it-all might chime in. You know there have been problems in the past with certain brands working with Denon receivers and such I think it's a similar situation. It's a pain for those who have to deal with it but the companies usually iron it out eventually. I'll try to find out more and post back.

Peabody, why should I chime in? The vast amounts of information that you and boy in dress have between you would far overshadow what I know. By the way, no there is not 20 signals in a HDMI handshake. There is a simple protocol authentication, authentication key check, and a new key assigned and exchanged. That does not take 20 signals to do.

To the boy in dress. There is always a communication between two devices when connected through HDMI or the handshake would fail. What version of HDMI is irrelevant. The HQV chip has nothing to do with the process, it is just a scaling chip and not part of the HDMI protocol. If you had just given you original question some forethought, you probably wouldn't have asked it. The best place for a HQV chip is where it would benefit the most sources. That would be the television if you just thought about it. If the 1200 doesn't function correctly(and there is that chance with that player) you still have a good upscaler in your television. Also the HQV chip is not going to help you much with bluray playback, its is already mastered at 1080p, so there is nothing to scale. Besides, the PS3 does a very good job of upscaling DVD's, so I am not sure you even need the HQV processing with it.

Sticks, thanks for holdin this one down. If you had not chimed in, the amount of educated discourse would have been near zero. Even Pixie made some sense here! Go Pixie!!!

[Mr Peabody]

Well you know your name, or who is being referred to when you hear it.

I still need to do some checking but I think you are wrong on this, my BR player and HD satelite receiver automatically set themselves to the display, if there isn't any exchange how do they do that. I was told there are also other communications between the two pieces being connected via HDMI. The key thing you refer to is just HDCP, that's not the only reason for HDMI.

[Mr Peabody]

Here's a laudry list of communications that will be done:
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=7&gl=us

The patent for HDMI seems to indicate a mess of commincating going on:
http://www.freshpatents.com/Solution...0060095596.php

Good interview, notice Steve Venuti says HDMI is a "two way communication between devices".
http://www1.electronichouse.com/info...mi_basics.html

I'm under the impression there's a whole lot of communicating between digital devices via HDMI. I'll assume ST may have misunderstood the question.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Well you know your name, or who is being referred to when you hear it.

The model of maturity. I guess if I say Resident idiot, you'll answer.

I still need to do some checking but I think you are wrong on this, my BR player and HD satelite receiver automatically set themselves to the display, if there isn't any exchange how do they do that.

That is not part of the handshake, that is a completely different process within HDMI

I was told there are also other communications between the two pieces being connected via HDMI. The key thing you refer to is just HDCP, that's not the only reason for HDMI.

You are apparently mixing up too many processes. There is the handshake, their are bitstream latency processes(which is completely different from the handshake), their are bitstream control functions, and many other communication AFTER the handshake takes place. But it is not even close to 20 different things, even after the handshake has taken place.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Here's a laudry list of communications that will be done:
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=7&gl=us

The patent for HDMI seems to indicate a mess of commincating going on:
http://www.freshpatents.com/Solution...0060095596.php

Good interview, notice Steve Venuti says HDMI is a "two way communication between devices".
http://www1.electronichouse.com/info...mi_basics.html

I'm under the impression there's a whole lot of communicating between digital devices via HDMI. I'll assume ST may have misunderstood the question.

No I didn't misunderstand the question. The HDMI specs that are listed are what HDMI CAN DO, not what it is doing now. HDMI 1.3 and 1.3a are forward looking updates. I said it was two way communication between two components in the first place, that what the handshake is. You seem to have got it in your thick head that all this communication is going on all the time, and that is not the case at all.

For instance. The increase in bandwidth is a look forward spec, as there is nothing right now that challenges the old bandwidth of 165mhz. No product uses deep color, and there is no video format that support deep color. It would require a huge amount of storage space on disc to do it. xvYCC extended color is also not used in any current video format, and most television sold today couldn't support it anyway. Lip sync compensation will only kick in if the dialog gets out of sync with the picture. That will only occur if there are two different processing SOURCES handling audio and video, like my system has. Most folks just pass both audio and video through the receiver, so there are no latency issues to deal with.

At any given time while watching a movie, the only thing going on through HDMI is the video stream and metadata, the audio stream and metadata, and latency checking, that is it. That is not 20 signals no matter how you slice it.

Presenting information without context is misinformation. If you do not understand what you are reading(which is your case), then maybe you should not post it. You won't know what you are talking about(which is your case)

[Mr Peabody]

The articles speak for themselves and those who read them can interpret for themselves.

You embellish and twist things to cover your own stupidity. That's why you always have to be the first to start name calling and attaching adjectives. The article clearly makes a distinction between what HDMI is now and what may be down the road. I also was clear that the "20" figure was something that was communicated to me. You also added your comment about the communication between devices would not be constant when no one said it would be. From the first article the communication is more significant than you are willing to admit. You are clearly a "wanna be", a poser. I gave you an opening, you could have said you misunderstood, or nothing at all would have been great but not you, you have to spin, misquote and embellish to try to save face. The article and interview are from those who are truly in the industry I will tend to believe them if that's alright with you. You can go back to sweeping the floors for whatever company you claim to work for. It's interesting you have a bald head, a common thing amongst you penuses.

[nightflier]

Gee another thread lil'terry is going to smear his stench all over. 'Wonder if FA is reading this one?

It just never stops with you, does it lil'terry? Again, you start with the insults and the name calling. Look, if you can't be civil, stay out of threads others start with a ligit question. Or is it not allowed to ask questions anymore either? Does everyone who asks a question about anything remotely related to HDMI risk getting run over with your insults?

Bottom line, if your insults make your contributions to the discussion a pain to read through, stay the hell away! If you cared at all about the topic, you'd take care not to debase your own point of view with attacks that turn everyone off. If no one reads your posts anymore, what's the point of participating?

Aren't there any moderators here?
______________________________________

For what it's worth, nothing said so far has convinced me that two components having bi-directional communication capability are not communicating about the video processing in each. For example, maybe the two components could be deciding which one has the better video processing capability and hand the processing to the better one? With chipsets produced from the same source, such as HQV, that is even more likely. This concept isn't exactly rocket science and I know it is implemented in other industries (ie computers).

[Mr Peabody]

NF did you read any of the links yet? The components definitely communicate and HDMI was designed for that two way exchange.

[nightflier]

NF did you read any of the links yet? The components definitely communicate and HDMI was designed for that two way exchange.

Yes, but the links did not specifically address the question of this post. I realize HDMI is capable of bi-directional communication, but does that extend to video processing?