Samsung Cuts Into Vizio Lead in U.S.

[Smokey]

While Vizio maintained its leadership in the U.S. LCD-TV market in '09 second quarter, No.-2 ranked Samsung Electronics closed the gap significantly as buyers gravitated toward its LED-backlit sets, according to iSuppli Corp.

"U.S. consumers increasingly are warming up to higher-specification LCD-TV models, including those using new LED-backlighting technology,” Patel added. "iSuppli estimates 2.2 percent of LCD-TVs shipped in the U.S. in the second quarter used LED backlights.

Samsung’s share of U.S. LCD-TV unit shipments rose to 21.3 percent in the second quarter, up from 17.8 percent in the second quarter. however Vizio still retained leadership in the U.S. LCD-TV market for the second consecutive quarter.

The overall U.S. LCD-TV market posted a strong performance in the second quarter, with shipments rising by 8.7 percent to 6.9 million units, up from 6.3 million in the first quarter. This represents a major turnaround from the first quarter, when shipments plunged by 15.3 percent.

http://www.isuppli.com/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=20655

[pixelthis]

Nice to see quality rewarded.
A friend returned a Sony after a month, got a 46" Samsung, and the picture I saw last time I
was over there was spectecular, to say the least, tho not as good as the LED type.
Setup controls arent as comprehensive as a Sony, but you dont need em because Samsung gets it right straight outa the box most of the time.
I have had a "30" Tau CRT, a 47 RPTV (HD) , both from Samsung, and am not surprized that they are doing so good.

[Smokey]

I think the price of LCD might also have something to do with Samsung closing the gap on Vizio. While Vizio's LCD prices have been steady, the price on major LCD brands have been falling very rapidly.

[pixelthis]

I think the price of LCD might also have something to do with Samsung closing the gap on Vizio. While Vizio's LCD prices have been steady, the price on major LCD brands have been falling very rapidly.

Tell me about it .
I saw a 52" size Vizio and Sony next to each other at walfart today, there was like a 30 buck
diff in price. A few differences , five HDMI on the Vizio, three on the Sony, but that price is close.
Wouldn't buy a Vizio if I could get a Sony at the same price, going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

[pixelthis]

I think the price of LCD might also have something to do with Samsung closing the gap on Vizio. While Vizio's LCD prices have been steady, the price on major LCD brands have been falling very rapidly.

And there is blood all over the place for the EL-CHEAPOS.
Saw a Sylvania at TARGET for 599 on closeout, a 1080p I THINK.
a 42IN MODEL!
A 599$ 42" is simply incredible, knew the day would come but not this soon.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Home theater mag just did a comparison of new LCD panels from the majors and vizio. Once again the vizio was at the bottom of all testing done on each. It had the lowest contrast dynamics, poorest color rendition, longest panel lag(far behind the majors), not so white whites, and poor blacks as well. There was no parameter of testing that it did not finish on the bottom.

Vizio televisions are for those who value a bargain over those who value performance, much like the Joewalmarts and Joecostco's.

[frahengeo]

much like the Joewalmarts and Joecostco's.

Wow! And what a broad brush you have. "Joecostco's"?? Are you serious? Oh right. That ol' model of: Highest Price=Highest Performance. Seems to contradict an earlier discussion we had...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Wow! And what a broad brush you have. "Joecostco's"?? Are you serious? Oh right. That ol' model of: Highest Price=Highest Performance. Seems to contradict an earlier discussion we had...

Ahhhh..no it doesn't. Let me school ya. When you want a good burger, you go to a burger joint. When you want good Chinese food, you go to a Chinese restaurant. When you want a performance oriented flat panel, you go were they sell performance oriented flat panels. Walmart and Costco are designed to move product to the budget conscious masses. Manufacturers create different products at different price points to be market to different types of consumers. You can find Sony flat panels at walmart, but they will not be from the Bravia or XBR line of flat panels, their more expensive performance oriented models. They wouldn't sell well there, and walmart likes to move products. Costco sells brands from Vizio and Funai almost exclusively. You will not find any high performance models on their shelves. Costco is also designed to move a lot of products, not be a showroom for high performance flat panels.

I never mentioned anything about the highest price=equal highest performance, so please do not put words in my mouth. It however is a fact that Sony's Bravia and XBR line will outperform any Vizio television no matter what the price. They are also more expensive than any Vizio television. There is a difference between selling a product with a whole bunch of unnecessary options for a higher price, and selling a higher priced television that was designed from the ground up for high performance that shows up on the screen. Let's not get this twisted.

[frahengeo]

Walmart and Costco are designed to move product to the budget conscious masses.

Can't argue with you there, but they do not only carry electronics. What's wrong with being budget conscious? Comments like "JoeCostco" and "JoeWalmart" come off as ignorant phrases. Perhaps making purchases at the likes of Costco and Wal-Mart is beneath you.

[Feanor]

.... What's wrong with being budget conscious? Comments like "JoeCostco" and "JoeWalmart" come off as ignorant phrases. Perhaps making purchases at the likes of Costco and Wal-Mart is beneath you.

Yeah, I wonder about that too. I'm budget conscious myself; not because I'm cheap but because I'm poor. (Do I loose face by admitting this?)

SirT is an industry insider and, I dare say, a very successful one. Being exposed to the best and able to afford it, it isn't surprising he has some distain for compromised, entry level products. On the other hand, unlike some audiophiles, he [edit]is not[/edit] awed only by expensive "high-end" products: witness his endorsement of Oppo over pricier McIntosh and Denon products recently discussed. He only needs to consider that for some of us it's budget or nothing.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Can't argue with you there, but they do not only carry electronics. What's wrong with being budget conscious? Comments like "JoeCostco" and "JoeWalmart" come off as ignorant phrases. Perhaps making purchases at the likes of Costco and Wal-Mart is beneath you.

I see no problem with being budget conscious, as long as the budget conscious know they are not usually getting a quality performance related product.

I have a membership with costco, but I do not buy my televisions or Bluray players there. They will not meet my performance standards. I buy food in bulk there, and they do have my favorite line of casual clothes there as well. I don't mind going to the Polo shop to buy my casuals, but when I step into costco and see them there as well, I just can't pass it up.

I am not really concerned at how JoeCostco and JoeWalmart comes off to you. Sorry if it made you defensive. However, Walmart and Costco have not gotten as large as they are without the average Joe(and many cheapskates) shopping there for just about everything. Many of Walmarts products are so poorly made, you have to keep replacing them over and over yearly if not semi yearly. I have nothing bad to say about Costco except every time I go there, I spend more than I planned. I have just no interests in purchasing their televisions that when tested always finish at the bottom of the pack(Vizio, and any Funai electronics)

JoeCostco and JoeWalmart is what I call the budget conscious. Cheap people are just plain cheap people. There is a difference between the two.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Yeah, I wonder about that too. I'm budget conscious myself; not because I'm cheap but because I'm poor. (Do I loose face by admitting this?)

Your not poor Feanor!! LOL. Aren't you retired? If I was retired I would be watching my money very closely. It is smart to be budget conscious if you are living on a fixed income.

SirT is an industry insider and, I dare say, a very successful one. Being exposed to the best and able to afford it, it isn't surprising he has some distain for compromised, entry level products. On the other hand, unlike some audiophiles, he awed only by expensive "high-end" products: witness his endorsement of Oppo over pricier McIntosh and Denon products recently discussed. He only needs to consider that for some of us it's budget or nothing.

I like performance not fancy high end names. If the high end products meet my performance standards without including unnecessary connects or processing I am so there. However if these unnecessary options are there just to justify a price point, I have no interest. The higher price must have performance gains or its just fluff. I like fluff in my pillows and comforters, not in my electronics.

I do understand that some folks just cannot afford high performance products. At some point you have to make compromises in performance just to get the product in your home. That is perfectly understandable. However where I have a problem with the budget conscious(or in some cases a cheapskate) is when they actually believe they are getting a superior electronic product when test after test has proven it is not. I have never known you to fit in that category, but we do have one on this forum that does.

[frahengeo]

I am not really concerned at how JoeCostco and JoeWalmart comes off to you. Sorry if it made you defensive.

Apparently not concerned of others as well. Don't bother apologizing since you're not concerned. Just stick to the facts, findings and opinions about AV and we can all get along. Remarks regarding people's purchasing preferences does not serve a useful purpose.

I have nothing bad to say about Costco except every time I go there, I spend more than I planned. I have just no interests in purchasing their televisions that when tested always finish at the bottom of the pack(Vizio, and any Funai electronics)

They sell Pioneer, Sony, Samsung, and Panasonic. Just not Elite, XBR, or Touch of Color.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Apparently not concerned of others as well.

You don't know me that well to come to this conclusion.

Don't bother apologizing since you're not concerned.

You really need to tuck your emotions back into your pocket. I did not label JoeWalmart and JoeCostco in a negative way, just in a way to draw a distinction between the average cost conscious person, and the person looking high performance cost aside.

Just stick to the facts, findings and opinions about AV and we can all get along.

We would also get along if you didn't try and act like God, or my father.

Remarks regarding people's purchasing preferences does not serve a useful purpose.

In the context of this discussion, yes it does.

They sell Pioneer, Sony, Samsung, and Panasonic. Just not Elite, XBR, or Touch of Color.

You can find Sony flat panels at walmart, but they will not be from the Bravia or XBR line of flat panels, their more expensive performance oriented models.

I think I already covered that.

[02audionoob]

I'm budget conscious myself; not because I'm cheap but because I'm poor. (Do I loose face by admitting this?)

I'm budget conscious myself; not because I'm poor but because I'm cheap.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'm budget conscious myself; not because I'm poor but because I'm cheap.

LOL too funny. I bet that is not really true though.

[frahengeo]

You don't know me that well to come to this conclusion.

Not fully, but getting there. Your recent response to NF is a perfect example. Keep those types of comments coming. Not doing you any good.

You really need to tuck your emotions back into your pocket.

You need to keep derogatory comments out of this forum. So you've installed AV gear, and you've reviewed blu-ray titles, you have access to information that I don't. So what? Get off your high horse.
I assume that you've been published?? What titles have you reviewed on blu-ray.com? Do you use phrases like cheap-skate and JoeWal-Mart.

We would also get along if you didn't try and act like God, or my father.

Yeah. Look who's talking here.

In the context of this discussion, yes it does.

I totally disagree. The discussion should have centered around poor performances of Vizio, and how Samsung recently closed the gap potentially due to recent price cuts. Furthermore, we could have discussed how they were able to cut prices, if that was the reason in the first place.
Samsung's recent success has nothing to do not with "JoeCostco", since according to you, JoeCostco would only find Vizio and/or Funai at their favorite store. Extremely arrogant and uppity statement.

You can find Sony flat panels at walmart, but they will not be from the Bravia or XBR line of flat panels, their more expensive performance oriented models.

I think I already covered that.

Let me clarify. COSTCO has those brands and yes, Bravia too, so no it wasn't covered. I don't know what Wal-Mart carries, but I'll take your word on that one.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Not fully, but getting there. Your recent response to NF is a perfect example. Keep those types of comments coming. Not doing you any good.

You have a very long way to go man, so please delay your opinions until enough information is gleaned to come to an accurate one. It will takes years, so don't think you have figured things out in a days worth of postings, or even a weeks or months.

NF and I have a long history. Since you do not know that history, so then it would behoove you to curtail your uneducated analysis of our interactions.

You need to keep derogatory comments out of this forum. So you've installed AV gear, and you've reviewed blu-ray titles, you have access to information that I don't. So what? Get off your high horse.
I assume that you've been published?? What titles have you reviewed on blu-ray.com? Do you use phrases like cheap-skate and JoeWal-Mart.

You need to stop telling me what to do, and govern your own behavior. I don't care for horses or heights. Yes I have published, and I have access to ALOT of information you don't. Blu-ray.com is an open website, go look at what titles I have reviewed yourself, I should not have to list them for you here. There are 93 of them for you to find so far, and if you want to know if I used the words cheapskate and JoeWalmart, read them and find out.

Yeah. Look who's talking here.

That would require you have a mirror.

I totally disagree. The discussion should have centered around poor performances of Vizio, and how Samsung recently closed the gap potentially due to recent price cuts. Furthermore, we could have discussed how they were able to cut prices, if that was the reason in the first place.

Discussions evolve and are not usually limited on this forum to just one topic per thread. Discussions can often wander in several directions in any given thread, that is how it has been for more than twelve years I have been participating here. You are welcomed and encouraged to agree or disagree, that is your God given right. However you do not see me telling you which to choose like you are telling what to do right?

Samsung's recent success has nothing to do not with "JoeCostco", since according to you, JoeCostco would only find Vizio and/or Funai at their favorite store. Extremely arrogant and uppity statement.

Boy, I must have really outed you or something to get you this wound up. To be labeled arrogant and uppity requires knowledge, experience and be in the presence with the individual you are labeling. You have none of this, so save your uniformed labels for those you do have a knowledge, been in the presence of, and have the history with.

Samsung success comes from being smart enough to design and manufacturer a panel that is affordable to the masses, being marketed to the masses, and found in a store where the budget conscious masses go to shop. One does not go to a big box store looking for performance oriented products, they are looking for a bargain based ones.

Let me clarify. COSTCO has those brands and yes, Bravia too, so no it wasn't covered. I don't know what Wal-Mart carries, but I'll take your word on that one.

It was covered, and your denial doesn't change that. The Bravia line consists of many models at different price points with different levels of performance. You are not going to find the top of the line high performance Bravia lines with all the performance laden bells and whistles in costco stores, it is beyond the price point that moves product. All of the major electronic manufacturing giants design and manufacture lower performing brands of their panels to be sold at big box stores. You can move a lot of televisions that way, and use the profits to fund R&D and find operating and manufacturing efficiencies that increase profits. Manufacturers also use costco to clear out inventories of obsolete, non supported and dated technology such as DLP RPTV's, and last years lines of televisions. These products if they cost over 2k will be on their website, not in their stores. I have three costco's within driving distance of my house, and I am VERY familiar of what they carry in their stores, especially their electronics. I also know that those Polo shirts I buy from there are either unsold overstock from polo stores, or last years lines and designs. Major clothing manufacturers also use costco in much the same way as electronics companies do. The walmarts and costco brick and mortar stores of this world are designed for impulse buying. Anything over 2k is pass the impulse of the majority of budget conscious consumers.

It is not common to not use the word BRAND to identify a company name. A brand is called Bravia, the company that manufactures that BRAND of television is called Sony. There is a difference.

[Smokey]

Home theater mag just did a comparison of new LCD panels from the majors and vizio. Once again the vizio was at the bottom of all testing done on each.

Thanks for info TT. That is an interesting Face-off between Panasonic Plasma, and LG, Toshiba, Sony and Vizio LCD TVs.











It seems lack of Black Level and Shadow detaill are still hunting average price LCD TVs. Hopefully with new LED models that have local dimming capability, that shortcoming will not be a factor anymore.

And welcome back

[frahengeo]

You have a very long way to go man, so please delay your opinions until enough information is gleaned to come to an accurate one. It will takes years, so don't think you have figured things out in a days worth of postings, or even a weeks or months.

NF and I have a long history. Since you do not know that history, so then it would behoove you to curtail your uneducated analysis of our interactions.

You're right. I don't know either of you or your relationship. And since its unlikely that I'll meet you, I only have your statements, the tone in which you make those statements to assess you by. And this is what I'm doing.

Boy, I must have really outed you or something to get you this wound up. To be labeled arrogant and uppity requires knowledge, experience and be in the presence with the individual you are labeling. You have none of this, so save your uniformed labels for those you do have a knowledge, been in the presence of, and have the history with.

Outed me? Like you, I do buy some stuff there. I like a bargain and don't believe in paying full retail.

No. I said your STATEMENT was an arrogant one.

It is not common to not use the word BRAND to identify a company name. A brand is called Bravia, the company that manufactures that BRAND of television is called Sony. There is a difference.

?? (Q: What brand TV do you have? A: I have a Sony, Q: What model is it? A: It is a xxxx Bravia XBR8.) The following is uncommon: Q: What Manufacturer's TV do you have? Lastly, you only mentioned Funai and Vizio in connection with Costco.

Okay T, I am done with this argument. Feel free to put in the last word, but I've got a long weekend coming up and getting some quality time with the wife and my two boys.

[Worf101]

Frahengo.. okay. I've been round here a bit longer than you and know Sir TT pretty well. While his comments about Joe this and that might have struck you as insulting or patronizing I believe they were done "off hand". I've discussed many things with Sir TT over the years and learned much from him I've never found him to be evil or arrogant. I personally give most posters the benefit of the doubt because the internet doesn't allow for tonal variation or nuance like speech does. If I personnaly thought Sir TT was chittin' on poor folks I'd call him out too, but honestly don't think he was.

I just hate to see folks cuttin' on one another is all. There, I've said my piece.

Da Worfster

[pixelthis]

Can't argue with you there, but they do not only carry electronics. What's wrong with being budget conscious? Comments like "JoeCostco" and "JoeWalmart" come off as ignorant phrases. Perhaps making purchases at the likes of Costco and Wal-Mart is beneath you.

Just about anything is "beneath" him, his nose is so high in the air its got frostbite.
Vizio is a good set with a quality picture, what sir talky fails to mention is that a lot of the
"tests" such as the one he cited are straight outta propaganda 101, designed to justify
the much higher prices of "high end" brands.
Most don't fall for it, they still buy a balance of good pic and price.
TRUTH is that the differences between performance in most of these "comparison "
tests between the high and "low" performing are usually quite small, and usually
not noticable.
Some pay more for their gear to look down on others , and these "comparisons"
are used to help justify their buying choice.
Vizio is still one of the top sellers, and there is a reason for that beyond price.
Sure a Samsung would be nice, but the extra PQ isnt priceworthy sometimes.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Boy, I have never seen anyone so steeped in denial like you pix. No matter what, I guess you stand for what you believe in....even if it a lie from hell.

[pixelthis]

Boy, I have never seen anyone so steeped in denial like you pix. No matter what, I guess you stand for what you believe in....even if it a lie from hell.

YOU are a "lie from hell"
Lying by ommision is still lying.
Like saying the Vizio was "at the bottom " when in fact it was a virtual tie between the bottom three, with the top two only having a star difference between them.
The Vizio was really in the middle of the pack, not "at the bottom",
and it did beat Toshiba, your brand of choice.
So I wouldnt't gloat, these types of "comparisons are exercises in splitting hairs to
the extreme.

[bobsticks]

Frahengo.. okay. I've been round here a bit longer than you and know Sir TT pretty well. While his comments about Joe this and that might have struck you as insulting or patronizing I believe they were done "off hand". I've discussed many things with Sir TT over the years and learned much from him I've never found him to be evil or arrogant. I personally give most posters the benefit of the doubt because the internet doesn't allow for tonal variation or nuance like speech does. If I personnaly thought Sir TT was chittin' on poor folks I'd call him out too, but honestly don't think he was.

I just hate to see folks cuttin' on one another is all. There, I've said my piece.

Da Worfster

Well said and I concur...