SACD and DVD-A dead, but K2HD is HERE!!!?!!?!?

[Mr Peabody]

I don't think you can say audiophiles stayed away from SACD. Most high end manufacturers either went to all universal players or at least offer a full line of them. And, the titles that are on SACD, for the most part, weren't picked for the masses. Almost every audio manufacturer offers something that will play SACD.

Music disc sales are way down in general, so when you combine that with SACD's additional cost and limited selection, you have, what you have.

It also seems like those behind SACD just quit with the thrust. I haven't revisited SACD in a long while but you'd think with it's potential the sound quality improvement would be more noticeable against redbook players in the same price range. Maybe they should have put a couple killer SACD stand alone players on the market rather than stuffing everything into a universal player. After DVD player manufacturers being forced to include CD playback in the player and the manufacturers then putting the cheapest thing possible in to meet that need, I am leary of universal players. I may be wrong but I am of the mind set that you should do just one job and do it to the best of it's ability.

[pixelthis]

I don't think you can say audiophiles stayed away from SACD. Most high end manufacturers either went to all universal players or at least offer a full line of them. And, the titles that are on SACD, for the most part, weren't picked for the masses. Almost every audio manufacturer offers something that will play SACD.

Music disc sales are way down in general, so when you combine that with SACD's additional cost and limited selection, you have, what you have.

It also seems like those behind SACD just quit with the thrust. I haven't revisited SACD in a long while but you'd think with it's potential the sound quality improvement would be more noticeable against redbook players in the same price range. Maybe they should have put a couple killer SACD stand alone players on the market rather than stuffing everything into a universal player. After DVD player manufacturers being forced to include CD playback in the player and the manufacturers then putting the cheapest thing possible in to meet that need, I am leary of universal players. I may be wrong but I am of the mind set that you should do just one job and do it to the best of it's ability.

Right about that, but its just not feasible for some.
A CD, DVD, AND a SACD player would just cost too much.
AND there was plenty of support from manufacurers, sure, but with limited mainstream support, a format like SACD needs the support of most ALL audiophiles.
And too many stayed with their records.
Sacd is a true high quality sound source, answering many of the complaints that some have against redbook, which is why some stayed with turntables.
Well, give em something better than redbook and they STILL stayed with their turntables.
I loved all of the turntables I had before the advent of CD, here was something that beat cassettes, radio, you name it, and the setting up was an art form itself.
But CD is better, and sacd even better.
I really think that all of those that grew up with turntables as the main deal will have to die out before it actually starts to fade away, kinda like the straight shift sports car

[PeruvianSkies]

Right about that, but its just not feasible for some.
A CD, DVD, AND a SACD player would just cost too much.
AND there was plenty of support from manufacurers, sure, but with limited mainstream support, a format like SACD needs the support of most ALL audiophiles.
And too many stayed with their records.
Sacd is a true high quality sound source, answering many of the complaints that some have against redbook, which is why some stayed with turntables.
Well, give em something better than redbook and they STILL stayed with their turntables.
I loved all of the turntables I had before the advent of CD, here was something that beat cassettes, radio, you name it, and the setting up was an art form itself.
But CD is better, and sacd even better.
I really think that all of those that grew up with turntables as the main deal will have to die out before it actually starts to fade away, kinda like the straight shift sports car

You're throwing rocks at the vinyl hornets nest, better hope there is some water nearby before you get stung.

[pixelthis]

You're throwing rocks at the vinyl hornets nest, better hope there is some water nearby before you get stung.

The truth always hurts

[Chas Underhay]

Greetings Gentlemen

I remember being involved in some lively discussion here three of four years ago about Hi Rez formats. I had no faith then in SACD or DVD-A surviving but even I was supprised at how quickly they both died out.

There are just not enough audiophiles out there to support any Hi Rez format. In my opinion CD is here to stay for the forseeable future. Yeah, sure sales will slow because of downloads etc but CD is too well established to die out. Everybody in the civilised world probably has a minimum of three CD players; 1 in the stereo, 1 in their computer and 1 in their car. Also probably a couple of portable ones as well. If Vinyl won't die, then nor will CD.

But what of the future? Well it's already been with us for about the last ten years; Yep DVD-V! I know there are Hi Rez format wars there but Joe Public is unlikely to be very interested so standard DVD-V is also here to stay.

The world has changed, try finding a proper Hi-Fi shop these days, it's all something or other sound and vision. Few people buy a Hi-Fi set anymore they all have home cinemas.

A lot of people don't even bother to buy a cheap stereo anymore and just have a TV and a DVD player that they play all of their music on. If they have freeview, cable or satelite; they have a radio tuner thrown in.

So what possibilities are there for the future? Good quality DVD-V music is the one I'd have faith in ! I know music videos have been around for a long time but I think it is a largely untapped market. What better format for opera lovers? All the operatic works released on DVD-V would make even the most devoted vinyl fan rush out buy them as fast as they became available.

As far as I know, the sales of music DVDs are increasing over the years (I think it is the only standard format that is) but in the past there have been three problems with music video. 1. Poor choice of material. 2. Poor to medeocre production. 3. Insufficient numbers of people had an A/V type system. Item 3 is being addressed at a rate of knots so it has to be a music marketing man's dream.

[Woochifer]

I remember being involved in some lively discussion here three of four years ago about Hi Rez formats. I had no faith then in SACD or DVD-A surviving but even I was supprised at how quickly they both died out.

SACD's not dead, but it ain't exactly breathing on its own either. Some classical titles and select reissues will continue to trickle out in the hybrid CD/SACD format, but who knows how long that will last. The HDMI 1.3 spec might also provide a reprieve for SACD, since allows for digital output with both DVD-A and SACD.

But what of the future? Well it's already been with us for about the last ten years; Yep DVD-V! I know there are Hi Rez format wars there but Joe Public is unlikely to be very interested so standard DVD-V is also here to stay.

Well, I think that point's debatable, because there are plenty of differences between the HD-DVD/Blu-ray format war and SACD/DVD-A. First off, the major studios have already standardized their major new releases around concurrent day-and-date HD disc releases with the DVD versions. This is support that SACD and DVD-A never got from the major record labels.

Second, the difference between HD and SD video is much easier to demonstrate than comparing a SACD or DVD-A with CD audio. The video quality improvement with HD resolution is obvious, even while standing in line at a Costco or Sam's Club. In order to demonstrate the virtues of higher resolution audio and even multichannel audio requires a proper setup with decent acoustical conditions -- something you'll rarely if ever find at a Costco or Best Buy or Wal-Mart. Even Joe6p can see the benefit of HD, because it's there where he/she shops.

Third, the rest of the video chain (broadcast, PPV, satellite, cable) is going HD. I doubt that disc media will indefinitely remain the last non-HD holdout when broadcasts and on demand services are moving towards HD. Someone who has grown used to seeing sporting events and prime time programs in HD will immediately see the drop off in quality when going over to DVD. And within the next few years, good luck finding a non-HD TV. Even now, non-HD TVs are rapidly disappearing from retail stores.

The world has changed, try finding a proper Hi-Fi shop these days, it's all something or other sound and vision. Few people buy a Hi-Fi set anymore they all have home cinemas.

A lot of people don't even bother to buy a cheap stereo anymore and just have a TV and a DVD player that they play all of their music on. If they have freeview, cable or satelite; they have a radio tuner thrown in.

The primary shift over the last decade has been the massive growth in the mobility markets (car audio and portable audio). The home audio component market has had a steep decline since it peaked in 1992. Part of it is cost reductions, but most of it is simply changes in how people listen to music. They no longer want to be tethered to that sweet spot between two speakers when they'd rather take their entire music collection with them and listen on the go. And to me, that expectation of being able to have your entire music collection with you at all times is the most revolutionary conceptual change that the iPod has brought to the market. Home theater's need for a large stationary screen is now the primary reason to keep home entertainment in the living room.

So what possibilities are there for the future? Good quality DVD-V music is the one I'd have faith in ! I know music videos have been around for a long time but I think it is a largely untapped market. What better format for opera lovers? All the operatic works released on DVD-V would make even the most devoted vinyl fan rush out buy them as fast as they became available.

That would depend on if the DVD releases go with a compressed lossy Dolby Digital track that compromises the audio quality, or actually allow for an uncompressed PCM two-channel track. While the DVD tracks allow for up to 96/24 resolution, most music DVDs use 48/16 resolution if they even include a PCM track to begin with (not much of an improvement over the 44.1/16 resolution used with CDs). 96/24 or even 48/24 tracks are rare because of the disc space needed for the video data.

The advantage of HD-DVD and Blu-ray is that they provide enough disc space for HD video data AND lossless audio. These formats have the potential to actually standardize uncompressed audio tracks on music releases. Any future with the DVD format is just more of the status quo -- i.e., lots of music releases with lots of lossy Dolby Digital.