Roger Ebert Hates 3D

[Ajani]

I'd love to agree with RE with regards to new technology dumbing down movies, but that horse left the barn a long long time ago, and it twern't technology as much as it was profits. The summer blockbuster is what killed "serious" or "conventional" movies. With movie and concession stand prices continuing to go up, people are doing their own cost/benefit analysis - even when they see a so-called serious movie trailer, one that they think will be really good, they axe themselves, "does this warrant being seen in a theater?" or they tell themselves, "I don't need to see this on a big screen, I'll just wait until it comes out on DVD" or they amuse themselves trying to guess which antiquated amusement park ride Disney is going try to prop up next with a movie...Sir Terrier is right; people have voted and they'd rather watch Brendan Fraiser jump the shark (again) than watch something that might have some social or cultural merit. People want their senses challenged, not their sensibilities.

I also don't think technology dumbed down movies... But my issue with tech is that the movie studios keep thinking that new tech is the solution to the problems... There are 2 issues that need to be addressed:

1) The quality of the movies released - just because a movie is a summer blockbuster does not mean it has to be dumb... Why couldn't Avatar have a decent plot?

2) $$$$$$ - Setting up a HT with a big screen TV has become cheaper and cheaper, while going to the movies just keeps becoming more expensive... each new wave of tech is another excuse to jack up movie prices even further and ensure that the market contracts... This is why so many persons only watch big special effects films in the cinema... It really just costs way too much to regularly go and watch a movie, that you could enjoy just as much on a 27 inch TV screen as on an IMAX screen in the cinema... Hollywood assumes that means people only want to see blockbusters... Whereas I see it as meaning that people are only willing to pay the excessive ticket prices for the occasional blockbuster... Drop the prices to sensible levels and we might all be shocked at how popular even intellectual films become...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I also don't think technology dumbed down movies... But my issue with tech is that the movie studios keep thinking that new tech is the solution to the problems... There are 2 issues that need to be addressed:

1) The quality of the movies released - just because a movie is a summer blockbuster does not mean it has to be dumb... Why couldn't Avatar have a decent plot?

2) $$$$$$ - Setting up a HT with a big screen TV has become cheaper and cheaper, while going to the movies just keeps becoming more expensive... each new wave of tech is another excuse to jack up movie prices even further and ensure that the market contracts... This is why so many persons only watch big special effects films in the cinema... It really just costs way too much to regularly go and watch a movie, that you could enjoy just as much on a 27 inch TV screen as on an IMAX screen in the cinema... Hollywood assumes that means people only want to see blockbusters... Whereas I see it as meaning that people are only willing to pay the excessive ticket prices for the occasional blockbuster... Drop the prices to sensible levels and we might all be shocked at how popular even intellectual films become...

A, you have it exactly backwards. The public has voted with its dollars that they only want to see blockbusters. Studio survey after survey has proven this over and over again. The studios are just giving the public exactly what it wants, hence why blockbuster are do so well even during recessionary times.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

For some reason I thought the digital Imax 3D had higher resolution than a traditional digital theater. We've got a Imax dome near us and i've seen several features there, They use the 70mm film on immense reels. The projector room is behind glass so you can see all the workings. Outstanding!

Both traditional and IMAX digital theaters use the same type of projectors. IMAX uses two stacked Christie DLP projectors to put more light on the screen, but they are just 2K projectors. IMAX uses 65mm film stock for their classic theaters, but 70mm is often cited on literature and websites. The difference between the two is minuscule and interchangeable.

[Ajani]

A, you have it exactly backwards. The public has voted with its dollars that they only want to see blockbusters. Studio survey after survey has proven this over and over again. The studios are just giving the public exactly what it wants, hence why blockbuster are do so well even during recessionary times.

Backwards? I'm not claiming that moviegoers would rather see some independent documentary than Avatar... Blockbusters would always be the highest grossing films, regardless of ticket prices and technology...What I am talking about is the fact that with the high price of tickets, only the Blockbusters are able to succeed... If ticket prices were reasonable then even low budget films could draw viewers... The higher the price of tickets, the more movies become a luxury and the smaller demand becomes...

So my point is that new tech and higher prices will only shrink movie audiences... If the studios really want to keep the theaters alive (assuming they care) then the aim should be to figure out a way to lower ticket prices and get persons to consider the movies as a cheap date option on a Friday night again (as it once was - back before I was born )...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Backwards? I'm not claiming that moviegoers would rather see some independent documentary than Avatar... Blockbusters would always be the highest grossing films, regardless of ticket prices and technology...What I am talking about is the fact that with the high price of tickets, only the Blockbusters are able to succeed... If ticket prices were reasonable then even low budget films could draw viewers... The higher the price of tickets, the more movies become a luxury and the smaller demand becomes...

Ticket prices have always been perceptively high, and smaller movies always managed to get out. The two are not correlated at all when you do careful analysis. It has been almost ten years since we have really seen a price hike here in California(and New York City for that matter), and things get more expensive like the film, the delivery of the film, and the subsequent destruction and recycling of that film. Getting on location permits have gotten more expensive, and all forms of movie production have gotten more expensive. Nothing is stagnant, and just like the cost of gas and electricity, the price goes up when it cost more to produce the product. You still have before 12:00pm matinées, and theaters in smaller markets have not really raised their ticket prices as much as the big cities have. The problem is not the prices that have kept smaller movies out of the picture(excuse the pun), it is the public's lack of demand for them. That's the problem. And with that lack of desire, the studios are buying or producing only the very best of the smaller flicks, because the potential losses for them are greater than a big budget blockbuster - which can spread its risks over many viewing outlets such as television, Blu ray, DVD, and VOD and streaming as well. If a movie like Precious fails in the theater, where else do you think a studio can recoup the losses? Nowhere is the answer to that.

The current upgrades to theaters that has driven up prices is a necessary upgrade. The cost of film, and the delivery and security of that delivering is going through the roof. The maintainece of these projectors was getting expensive as fewer technicians knew how to fix them. With the digital cinema rollout, a theater can now have many different ways to make profits besides just showing movies(of which their cut was getting smaller). Everything has gotten more expensive, and movie ticket prices are not immune to that.

So my point is that new tech and higher prices will only shrink movie audiences

That has not been the case so far. People are coming to see 3D movies at almost twice the rate they are coming to see 2D movies. Dts and Dolby Digital didn't shrink audiences. Neither did Cinemascope, color, or basic sound. Theater tech HAS so move forward, or the business would be dead by now.

... If the studios really want to keep the theaters alive (assuming they care) then the aim should be to figure out a way to lower ticket prices and get persons to consider the movies as a cheap date option on a Friday night again (as it once was - back before I was born )...

This is impossible, just like you cannot get a car for the same price as when you were born. The cost of food cannot roll back to when you were born, the cost of going to Disneyland cannot, the cost of entertainment cannot roll back 30 years, as the cost of living in general cannot be rolled back. Salaries are higher, and the cost of goods is higher, so it is impossible to lower ticket prices below the threshold of making a profit, or the whole shebang goes down the tubes. Ticket prices are keeping up with inflation, that is the bottom line.

There is one thing you must consider. The hottest thing right now is not cheap theater, but high end theater going. Arclight theaters are doing booming business in Los Angeles, Chicago and New York, and more of them are coming.

In the end, 3D is just another step up, and there will be others like Iosono sound to come along. Movies theaters are much like hometheaters, they evolve, and they should.

There is just no evidence that higher prices are keeping people away from theaters, and that is evidenced by the early morning attendance of Iron Man 2

[Ajani]

Ticket prices have always been perceptively high, and smaller movies always managed to get out. The two are not correlated at all when you do careful analysis. It has been almost ten years since we have really seen a price hike here in California(and New York City for that matter), and things get more expensive like the film, the delivery of the film, and the subsequent destruction and recycling of that film. Getting on location permits have gotten more expensive, and all forms of movie production have gotten more expensive. Nothing is stagnant, and just like the cost of gas and electricity, the price goes up when it cost more to produce the product. You still have before 12:00pm matinées, and theaters in smaller markets have not really raised their ticket prices as much as the big cities have. The problem is not the prices that have kept smaller movies out of the picture(excuse the pun), it is the public's lack of demand for them. That's the problem. And with that lack of desire, the studios are buying or producing only the very best of the smaller flicks, because the potential losses for them are greater than a big budget blockbuster - which can spread its risks over many viewing outlets such as television, Blu ray, DVD, and VOD and streaming as well. If a movie like Precious fails in the theater, where else do you think a studio can recoup the losses? Nowhere is the answer to that.

The current upgrades to theaters that has driven up prices is a necessary upgrade. The cost of film, and the delivery and security of that delivering is going through the roof. The maintainece of these projectors was getting expensive as fewer technicians knew how to fix them. With the digital cinema rollout, a theater can now have many different ways to make profits besides just showing movies(of which their cut was getting smaller). Everything has gotten more expensive, and movie ticket prices are not immune to that.



That has not been the case so far. People are coming to see 3D movies at almost twice the rate they are coming to see 2D movies. Dts and Dolby Digital didn't shrink audiences. Neither did Cinemascope, color, or basic sound. Theater tech HAS so move forward, or the business would be dead by now.



This is impossible, just like you cannot get a car for the same price as when you were born. The cost of food cannot roll back to when you were born, the cost of going to Disneyland cannot, the cost of entertainment cannot roll back 30 years, as the cost of living in general cannot be rolled back. Salaries are higher, and the cost of goods is higher, so it is impossible to lower ticket prices below the threshold of making a profit, or the whole shebang goes down the tubes. Ticket prices are keeping up with inflation, that is the bottom line.

There is one thing you must consider. The hottest thing right now is not cheap theater, but high end theater going. Arclight theaters are doing booming business in Los Angeles, Chicago and New York, and more of them are coming.

In the end, 3D is just another step up, and there will be others like Iosono sound to come along. Movies theaters are much like hometheaters, they evolve, and they should.

There is just no evidence that higher prices are keeping people away from theaters, and that is evidenced by the early morning attendance of Iron Man 2

Hmmm... if all of that is correct and increased prices are not lowering attendance, then where do all the complaints 'that theaters are not attracting audiences' come from? Is it just an urban legend that cinemas are not doing as much business as they used to?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Hmmm... if all of that is correct and increased prices are not lowering attendance, then where do all the complaints 'that theaters are not attracting audiences' come from? Is it just an urban legend that cinemas are not doing as much business as they used to?

I think it is coming from a bunch of people who don't know what they are talking about. 2009 had the highest attendence and box office revenue ever. There were ten films that made more than $200 million dollars, and the is the highest number that made it that far ever. There were even more films that made over $100 million mark. Last year the movie industry crossed the $10 billion mark for the first time in history

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec...ce14-2009dec14

Keep in mind that theaters are not just showing movies anymore. Last week I went to something called the Drum Corps showdown, which took the best performances of Drum Corps championships from several years, and showed them in HD and 5.1 digital sound. I have gone to two Metropolitan operas shown at my local AMC theater. They were beamed straight from the Metropolitan opera house to select theaters that have satellite downlinks.

The new tech is bringing folks in, not chasing them away!

[pixelthis]

2009 WAS A SPEEDBUMP on the way down.
The overall trend is (after inflation) for movie attendance is down.
More and more would rather see a movie at home.
Video games do better than movies.
Eventually there will be a change in movies, has to be.
You cant get away with making a 300 million movie and have it flop.
THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS gonna cave sooner or later from its own weight,
and movie makers will have to start living in the real world like the rest of us.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

2009 WAS A SPEEDBUMP on the way down.
The overall trend is (after inflation) for movie attendance is down.
More and more would rather see a movie at home.
Video games do better than movies.
Eventually there will be a change in movies, has to be.
You cant get away with making a 300 million movie and have it flop.
THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS gonna cave sooner or later from its own weight,
and movie makers will have to start living in the real world like the rest of us.

Sorry Pix, don't know where you get your information, but you are wrong for the millionth time. Attendance in the theaters has been rising for the last two years. 2009 attendance was up 9.7% over 2008, and 2008 was up 4.6% over 2007. If this is a speed bump, it sure is big. Can you tell me what attendance has to do with inflation? And if you are speaking about revenue(which I know you don't know the difference) with inflation added, revenue is still up year over year. So once again, you don't know what you are talking about.

Do you want to try again with your own home brewed version of misinformation?

[kevlarus]

2009 WAS A SPEEDBUMP on the way down.
The overall trend is (after inflation) for movie attendance is down.
More and more would rather see a movie at home.
Video games do better than movies.
Eventually there will be a change in movies, has to be.
You cant get away with making a 300 million movie and have it flop.
THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS gonna cave sooner or later from its own weight,
and movie makers will have to start living in the real world like the rest of us.

Yup... actors/actresses demanding huge amounts will need adjusting to be more inline (like professional sports -- but that's another topic & another site). We hardly go to the theatre any more. Much rather have the fresh homemade popcorn (from fresh kernels on gas stove) that what they make. After buying a couple of sodas and popcorn, the cost just doubled for that movie outing.

Cinemas only download the movies now instead of receiving physical film from the studios -- so no Fed-Ex needed any more. Just storage which is capital and reusable.

But then, I thought the MPAA said they were going broke from all the DVD copying. Someone needs to make up their minds and I don't like the current system. Can't even "legally" make a copy of a DVD and play the copy. Used to do that for tape since eventually the tape would stretch and would be useless.

[frahengeo]

I definitely go to the movies less frequently than I used to, but that's because my priorities have shifted due to family life. However, the next generation, with less responsibilities, has filled in the gap.

Back to 3D. When I saw A Christmas Carol in 3D, I was so annoyed at how distracting the 3D glasses were. I'm really looking forward to Toy Story 3 this summer, but I'm taking my Wife and Kids to see the 2D version. Since Pixar is about quality animation and great story telling, I don't think I will miss out.

[Smokey]

2009 had the highest attendence and box office revenue ever. There were ten films that made more than $200 million dollars, and the is the highest number that made it that far ever. There were even more films that made over $100 million mark. Last year the movie industry crossed the $10 billion mark for the first time in history.

Lets not forget that 2009 total was also aided by a 28 cent increase in ticket prices from the year before to an average $7.46

Movie attendance seem to have stayed flat since 1994 to anywhere between 1.2 to 1.4 billion tickets sold annualy (except in 2002 where it was 1.6 billion).

[Geoffcin]

Lets not forget that 2009 total was also aided by a 28 cent increase in ticket prices from the year before to an average $7.46

Movie attendance seem to have stayed flat since 1994 to anywhere between 1.2 to 1.4 billion tickets sold annualy (except in 2002 where it was 1.6 billion).

I think that's pretty resonable especially since I pay $16 a seat to see features at the Imax theater. Smaller theaters with anemic soundsystems and less than state-of-the art projector equipment just don't apeal to me anymore. I'll pay the extra for the few movies I want to see first fun.

Flat attendance since 1994 is quite an achievment considering that that time period. DVD tech, large screen TV, Home Theater sound, cable TV explosion, sattilite TV, movies on demand, Xbox, Playstation, ect. the list goes on-and-on for things that would compete with first run movies at your local theater. 3D tech is one of the few things that the theaters have that the population in general doesn't. It's a big draw for me, and as Avatar proved, a big draw for a lot of others.

[E-Stat]

I think that's pretty resonable especially since I pay $16 a seat to see features at the Imax theater. Smaller theaters with anemic soundsystems and less than state-of-the art projector equipment just don't apeal to me anymore.

Ditto. I'll wait for the BR for many releases. I'm convinced that 3D is here to stay. Just today, I got the new Playboy with the PMOY rendered in 3D. It is only with that capability that one is able to fully appreciate the true uh...relief involved.

rw

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Lets not forget that 2009 total was also aided by a 28 cent increase in ticket prices from the year before to an average $7.46

That is not going to come halfway in explaining the total gross from 2009.

Movie attendance seem to have stayed flat since 1994 to anywhere between 1.2 to 1.4 billion tickets sold annualy (except in 2002 where it was 1.6 billion).

This does not square with NDP's report, nor the report from NTA. In 2008, attendance was 1.36 billion tickets sold. Attendance was up 1.55 billion in 2009 according to NDP. So it was a bit above flat, and was pretty close to 2002 figures.

[Geoffcin]

Ditto. I'll wait for the BR for many releases. I'm convinced that 3D is here to stay. Just today, I got the new Playboy with the PMOY rendered in 3D. It is only with that capability that one is able to fully appreciate the true uh...relief involved.

rw

I heard Lindsey Lohan is going to star in a remake of "Deep Throat".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/...ce-deep-throat

I can't wait to see that in "3D"

[pixelthis]

I heard Lindsey Lohan is going to star in a remake of "Deep Throat".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/...ce-deep-throat

I can't wait to see that in "3D"

She has the skills.
THAT IS, IF SHE CAN KEEP OUTTA JAIL.
A warrant has been signed for her arrest, 100,000 bond.
Dont tick off the judge.

[Smokey]

Flat attendance since 1994 is quite an achievment considering that that time period. DVD tech, large screen TV, Home Theater sound, cable TV explosion, sattilite TV, movies on demand, Xbox, Playstation, ect. the list goes on-and-on for things that would compete with first run movies at your local theater.

I was thinking the same thing, especially after LCD hit the market. As TVs being sold are getting bigger and bigger since last few years, one might think that movie attentance would drop symmetrically.

I remeber back in 90's, we had almost ten or twelve movie theaters scatter all over town and had two of them locally. But one by one they close down and now we are only down to four movie plexes and one IMAX theater. I guess you can say the movie attentance have reached equilibrium where new generation of movie goers keep replacing the older generation that want to stay home.

I got the new Playboy with the PMOY rendered in 3D.

Playboy magazine really does not show anything that it warrent a 3-D feature

In 2008, attendance was 1.36 billion tickets sold. Attendance was up 1.55 billion in 2009 according to NDP. So it was a bit above flat, and was pretty close to 2002 figures.

I was reading that current recession have actually helped raise the movie attendance. Where people quit going on vacation or expensive dinner or night out, have channel that fund to see a movie since it is still a cheap entertainment.

[pixelthis]

Sorry Pix, don't know where you get your information, but you are wrong for the millionth time. Attendance in the theaters has been rising for the last two years. 2009 attendance was up 9.7% over 2008, and 2008 was up 4.6% over 2007. If this is a speed bump, it sure is big. Can you tell me what attendance has to do with inflation? And if you are speaking about revenue(which I know you don't know the difference) with inflation added, revenue is still up year over year. So once again, you don't know what you are talking about.

Do you want to try again with your own home brewed version of misinformation?

Not really.
So you have two years, five is a trend.
And except for a bump(which started during the reccession) the overall trend is down
AND you know it.

[pixelthis]

And notice how it went up right after the last crash.
Thats because any homeless person can scrape up 9.00 to take a nap.
And a theater is better than a culvert.

[Smokey]

Thats because any homeless person can scrape up 9.00 to take a nap.

That is an expensive nap. Why not take a free nap at the laundry mat where it is warm in winter and cold in summer

[E-Stat]

Playboy magazine really does not show anything that it warrent a 3-D feature

I guess that depends upon what part of a balloon you fancy.


rw

[pixelthis]

That is an expensive nap. Why not take a free nap at the laundry mat where it is warm in winter and cold in summer

Are any of those still around?
And cheap is relative, compared to a motel.

[Geoffcin]

Are any of those still around?
And cheap is relative, compared to a motel.

OK, if it has nothing to do with 3D, or Roger Ebert, or even the movies it's getting tossed.