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Originally Posted by L.J.
Interesting that you start your stupid PS vs PX catfight thread to try and call out PX when you do the same thing. Troll Killer? Please.
What the F is your deal? Go whine about your rep points some more and leave me alone with your petty garbage.
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Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
What the F is your deal? Go whine about your rep points some more and leave me alone with your petty garbage.
What, your the only one who can jump in a thread. Rep points? Ok Lex, got me there. The only thing petty around here is you, my friend.
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Originally Posted by L.J.
What, your the only one who can jump in a thread. Rep points? Ok Lex, got me there. The only thing petty around here is you, my friend.
You are welcome to hijack this thread all you want, just don't go b!tchin' about it or about those who do. I was staying on topic and I disagree with what SirTtT is saying...just because I disagree doesn't mean that he is wrong or right, it's just my opinion. I don't like people who can't admit when they are wrong simple as that. If you have a problem with me, start a thread about it...and bring your pack of wild dogs too!
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Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
You are welcome to hijack this thread all you want, just don't go b!tchin' about it or about those who do. I was staying on topic and I disagree with what SirTtT is saying...just because I disagree doesn't mean that he is wrong or right, it's just my opinion. I don't like people who can't admit when they are wrong simple as that. If you have a problem with me, start a thread about it...and bring your pack of wild dogs too!
I'm not too concerned about this thread or jacking it. I don't need to start a "vs" thread. I got better things to do than try and bring attention to myself like some people. You know, those that put "vs" threads in the news/rumor forum so everyone can be sure to see. We do have a off topic forum you know.
I don't have a problem with you, I just simply don't like you. You run your fat mouth too much, you cry and complain too much. Maybe you should try shuttin' up for a bit and stop hatin'.
Wild dogs? Please, your still kidding yourself. As much as you would love it, I'm sure everyone has something better to do than worry about you.
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Originally Posted by pixelthis
The thing is, the 2 mb in the US is plenty.
2 mb is probably alright for most internet activities, but most likely not for downloading. I have 1.5 dsl and takes three hours to download contents equal to a CD (700 mb). Now if I want to down load a movie size of DVD (4.5 gb), it will take about 20 hours :nonod:
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Originally Posted by Sir TT
The fact that you have such high speeds in Japan would make you think that downloading movies must be big there. Well, interestingly enough, the market for bluray disc is larger than the market for downloading movies in Japan, even with the higher internet speeds.
I agree with you. Downloading is not an attractive option when you can own it "physically" :16:
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Originally Posted by nightflier
OK, first of all, I prefaced almost every one of my posts with respect to your tenure here - I certainly never insulted you. I also never said that I could compete with your statistics and figures. I mean for someone who has such a close, cozy relationship with industry insiders, I would have to be sleeping someone to know more - no thanks and more power to you.
If I was a Doctor, I would know my business inside and out. If I was a business analyst, I would know whatever business I was analizing backward and forwards. I work in the film industry, and I know my industry very well. I have been a studio staff audio engineer, and a freelance re-recording mixer. I have calibrated professional theaters and studio dubbing stages all over hollywood. I have designed and installed screening rooms and high end hometheaters for alot of studio executives. After doing this some 25 years, you do build close cozy relationships with some well placed people from all of the studios. I see nothing bad about that, audioreview and my wallet over the years has benefitted greatly from my cozy relationships.
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What is striking though, and I've also looked at your long-winded prosaic posts, is that you always have to be right. I don't think there is a single one in all those 1900+ posts, where you admit to be wrong. I almost think that your inability to admit to even the possibility that there might be just a slight flaw in your world-view, would bring the whole house of cards down. There's a term in psychology for such rigidity, and I think where I've struck a nerve is in questioning its stability. After all, what I'm questioning is the validity of all this official or insider information. If that is questioned, then there is nothing left for you to stand on.
You are only making this statement because in this thread, you have been consistantly wrong. Considering the fact your posts have been just as long as mine..kettle meet black, black meet kettle.
Have you read all 1907 of my posts? Then how in the name of the holy one can you make such an unintelligent statement? Read them all, then make that kind of statement if you can.
If I do not know what I am talking about, I do not enter into a debate with somebody who does, or at all. That has been my practice every since I joined audioreview 11 years ago. Perhaps you should follow this advice so you won't be left making statement regarding my character to which you know nothing about. You wouldn't have to take a false high road just to leave the impression that you are in fact correct when you are not. You hit no nerve, so far you have only hit air. You can question my inside information all you like, and you have had ample oportunity to do so. Since you have nothing to question it with(like some information of your own) you are standing in sinking sand. Your problem is that you are questioning me with your gut, and that thing is only full of food, not information relevant to this topic.
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You obviously don't like the current administration and the direction of the war in Iraq, but aren't they just as exemplary of this type of rigidity? Question just one official statistic, event or factoid, and it could bring down everything - it's the domino theory all over again - it got us real far in Vietnam. The problem with this approach is that it makes for a whole lot of information to control. You almost have to establish a dictatorship. Such systems abhor anything outside of a dogmatic black-white / good-evil world view. Orwellian.
There is more than two pages of you and I going back and forth. You have had more than enough oportunity to challenge my stats and figures concerning bluray and HD DVD. You have presented nothing, not a damn thing that refutes anything I have stated. The figures are out there to challenge, yet you have not one quantifiable peice of fact that rebutes, disputes, or even slightly weaken anything I have said.
As you can see I have no problem controlling the information I have, and I also have no problem using that information to support what I say. Where is the information you have to rebut mine????
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Now regarding the BR & HD-DVD format war, I believe and I maintain with confidence that:
1. The stats could be ever so slightly off
2. It doesn't take much variance to swing the pendulum in the format war
You can't just state it, you have to PROVE it. So where is your evidence. links, links to direct quotes, anything, Bueller?
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The first point is just a nature of statistics - there are political (yes, even in this industry), economic, mathematical, and procedural reasons for this. This should not be up for debate. If it is, then we have nothing more to talk about because you would be arguing against all of academia. The second point is perhaps where we'll have to agree to disagree. I think there are enough examples in the history of economics to suggest that it really doesn't take more than a tiny percentage to shift things, especially when it's made into a PR mantra by one side.
Unlike yourself, I operate under the presumption that stats and figures are correct until proven not. You work the other way around which leaves the burden of proof right in your lap. Just because you don't like the stats and figures, or do not have access to them, doesn't give you the right to outright dismiss them. These same facts and figures that you choose to ignore to support your point are paid for, and used by thousands of companies all over the world. So it is up to you to go directly to Neilsons, and tell them their sales figures they offer to the studios and manufacturers all over the world are incorrect, because nightflyer says they are based on a political, economic, mathmatical and procedural basis. Go to the studios and manufacturer all over the world and tell them that nightflyer says the information they purchased from Neilsons is incorrect because nightflyer says so. I would be profoundly interested in what they tell you.
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Actually, the books do extrapolate to today. You may want to pick one of them up check out what is being said. It is quite riveting.
It will only be as riveting as it applies specifically to this arguement. Since it does not, I have other material I would rather read. I really do not have the time to read material that re-inforces you obvious paranoia, or your doubts about any and all information. When you can prove its applicability to this particular subject, then it becomes a compelling read to me. Otherwise, it is more crap thrown against the wall.
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So basically you are reducing every one of my examples and links to "muddle." I've been trying to show that the "official" info isn't the whole picture. For that I have to look outside of the "official" info, don't I? But you dismiss it because it's outside of the "official" story. Well if you only wish to see what is "official" then how is that not tunnel vision? How is that the whole picture?
Not one of your links are applicable to this particular arguement. Not one address this particular issue. You have not been able to prove how they are applicable to this subject, and you have not presented a single opposing bit of information that directly challenges anything I have stated. That is why it is muddle, because there is no proof that what you have advanced in this arguement is applicable to this arguement. When you can show me that what you have stated trumps what I have stated ON THIS ISSUE, then you have my attention. Until then, you gut, your theories, and your links are just mud in a clear lake.
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So lemme get this straight, cause it's a biggy. You establish the boundaries of what we can include, the stuff that only you seem to know well, and then you dismiss everything outside of it.
Actually no. The established boundaries are the topic at hand, HD DVD and Bluray sales figures and stats. Anything that is not relevant to this topic is outside the bounds of this discussion. This includes your links to an unrelated issue, to an unrelated industry, and unsubstantiated claims you make.
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So anything anyone else brings up is outside of those boundaries and thus "muddle." You are essentially pre-screening the topics for "relevance." That sounds more like a presidential press conference to me than anything else. Look, you can go on jabbing at me and getting hot under the collar, but you have to be able to consider what is outside of your boundaries. If you don't, then there can't be a meaningful discussion about this topic, or any topic.
I cannot PRE-screen anything looking for relevance. I cannot do it because I cannot read your mind. What I can do is look at what you presented as evidence to support your theories, and it is clear that what was presented is completely unrelated. I never saw any link directing its attention to HD DVD or Bluray sales figures. If there is, and I missed it, please show me.
So you understand this clearly. You do not know when I am hot under the collar. You don't know me personally, and it is impossible to see me over the internet. So once again, before you make any statement regarding anyone state of mind, make sure you can support that claim with SOME evidence. Is that so hard?
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You obviously have some seniority here, and a reputation for thoroughness, maybe even respect. Then show us that you can be magnanimous, that you do have that reputation for a good reason. As it is right now, you're not.
What does seniority buy me here?? This I am curious to know. So what you are now advancing is that I come to your side of thinking, that makes me magnanimous. Just tell you that you are right(inspite of the fact you offered no evidence applicable to this arguement) and that shows that I am rational. Not no, but hell no man. That would be beyond stupid considering how you have argued your point. Had you had even a shred of support for your arguement, you probably could have swayed me if the information was valid and correct. But you have not, so I am not compelled to acquiesce your request.
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And the more you get upset, the more you show of your true colors. " 'Left white & blue somewhere way back and but a tiny red loin cloth to cover up the privates" (forgot what movie that's from, but it does seem to apply here).
You would like for me to be upset, but those who know me here know that I don't get upset in online debates. This is first entertainment, and second a way to exchange information, and thirdly a way to educate people about the movie business. Beside I can just tell you that my true color is brown. I was a ligher shade at birth, but too many on location shoots has left me a little tanned. As far as the tiny red loin cloth, well I would rather have nothing since neither suggestion would cover much.
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Really, you mean the discussion about the effect that the movie SuperSize Me has had on the fast food industry? Yes, I noticed you poked your head in there, and what of it? In that discussion I'm having pretty much the same discussion as I'm having here. I'm arguing agains someone who has dismissed everything I've presented as examples (outside of their boundaries - sound familiar?). Maybe it's because I'm arguing the obvious - that the movie had an impact. Anyhow, that's another topic.
Actually you debated better in that arguement by far than you have done here. I least you remained on topic, which is something you have completely failed to do here. At least you provided some credible support for your arguements in that subject, something you have failed to do here as well. Actually so you do not have to continually repeat your own lies, it is "outside the boundaries of the topic" not outside my boundaries. Big difference
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Or are you referring to the many discussions about, guess what, this format war? I've disagreed with a few people, Wooch, Pixel, etc., but I must say, that despite the disagreements over BR / HD-DVD, they have been far more respectful and have actually taken the time to read what I've posted.
Oh I read what you posted, that is how I know that it wasn't relevant.
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These forums are here to discuss topics. Dismissing everything someone presents without reading them is the opposite of what we are here for.
Making crap up off the top of your head, and attempting to apply it where it cannot be is also not why we are here. Presenting valid and relevant facts that support an arguement is why we are here. You haven't done that at all period. When it is not relevant, its dismissed because it is not relevant. Please do not tell this lie again, I did read you post, that is why I know they are outside the bounds of HD DVD and Bluray. You know they are too so let's not act like you are talking to a fool okay.
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People want to read what others have to say - stifling decent is draconian and counter-productive. You may have seniority here, but that does not give you the right to dictate what is relevant to a discussion.
Did I tell you that you cannot post? Am I a moderator? Do I control your actions on this board? No to all questions, so just how in the heck am I stifling dissent. This is obviously a massive case of passive/agressive. Relevance is dictated on how the information conforms to the topic of HD DVD and Bluray. Presenting a book on conspiracy theories regarding stats and figure manipulation is far outside of the HD DVD and Bluray arguement. Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder can see that. I am not stopping you from doing anything, put it out there so I can shoot a hole in it.
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Yes, but they are still "official" sources and thus represent an interest. Moreover they are statistics and are inherently unreliable to some degree, however small. They do not represent a complete picture - one that nobody, not even you with all your connections - can rely 100% on.
Sorry nightflyer, but Neilson has built their business on amassing numbers and stats, and guess what, many a company pays for it. Has any company paid you for the figures and stats you amassed? No, and for a good reason, you have none. No business can grow without market trends, sales figures and data. The fact DO create a complete picture. It is complete within the bounds that it is presented. If a mega billion dollar industry can rely on the figures they amass, then it really doesn't mean a whole lot that you don't trust them. What would you use to find trends in your business, your gut? See how far that get's you.
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While you can say that your sources are from many different areas within the industry, doesn't that weaken their reliability as well? After all, it increases the potential for variability within the "official" pool so that even that is not reliable.
Different sources provide different facts. Not all of my sources are used for just one thing. They span the gamut of the industry. If all of my sources agree, then a trend exists. So where are your sources that invalidate mine?? I am waiting.......
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You said specifically: no one. Pixel is someone.
He's not me thought right?
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Well if my perspective is outside of your boundaries, and yours is inside, and we're talking about a tunnel, then I fail to see your logic.
Your perspective is outside the boundaries of the topic, not my boundaries. Since mine are inside, then their relevancy cannot be disputed. If you cannot understand that logic, then logic completely escapes you.
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That does sound Pompous to me. Hey, your words. I'm not claiming to know more than everyone else.
You cannot make that claim, because you don't. I do know my industry, and there is nothing pompous about that. Its why I have been pretty sucessful at what I do, because I know what I am doing within the industry I work.
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Obviously you don't know a lick about logic. My argument is that the unknowns may be more significant than the knowns. Yes, it may be uncomfortable for you, but you'll have to face it eventually.
You can't build an arguement on unknowns because they're unknown. Only a person with no arguement works off of unknowns. Unknowns do not shape a industry, only knowns do. Do you think a business makes a business decision based on unknowns? I know of none that do. What is uncomfortable to me is having someone try and tell me what I already know well, when they don't know much about anything to do with the industry I work in. I wouldn't begin to debate you on what you do for a living, I wouldn't know what I was talking about, just like in this case you don't.
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If it's such a stupid wager, what's the fear in a commitment? I'm willing to admit that I was wrong. I guess you just can't do that. Wonder why? Shaky foundation?
You are making an assumption of fear. How about I have better things to bet on that are less stupid and a waste of time.
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If I failed, why are we still here? There are comparisons to be made, I've made them. I admit that my info is not as "official" as yours, but again, let's wait and see what the media says about this if BR & HD-DVD are relegated to niche markets. I'm not saying that it will happen that way, I'm only saying if it will. I can wait. Can you?
You are going to wait to see what the media says, and you chide me for using "official" sources. Okay, I am done with your contradictory perspective. The media is the last place for accurate information, I would rather go to the data collectors before the media. They at least have the obligation to check and re-check their information. The media has no such constraints.
Your last paragraph is a prime example of your lack of focus on this whole subject. You distrust the people that gather the information, but trust the people that report it. How stupid is that? It is contradictory, and doesn't make a damn bit of sense. Your whole perspective on this has been rather schizophrenic and weird, do you want to try this again?
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No they don't. Wars are based in black and white, right and wrong, good and evil. You can't get your soldiers to fight or the public to go along with such senseless slaughter otherwise. Confusion is what ends wars. You really should pick up a history book sometime instead of those "official" sources.
You think the Iraq war is black and white? Why did we go in there in the first place? If you come up with just one answer, you are already contridicting your President. He so far has had three different reason and three different times as to why we went there. That is not so black and white.
Consfusion is a byproduct of war. Look at what the Iraq war has done to this country. We are completely confused as to why we went there in the first place, and why we are still there as well.
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Not hard at all. I've admitted that I don't have your insight in just about everyone of my posts. And about the internet and its capacity, I wouldn't be so sure about how little I may or may not know. I certainly know enough not to be so absolute as you. Maybe you're sill upset about that Netscape stock you owned?
Never owned Netscape, but have plenty of Google, Yahoo, and oil stocks right now though. More of you not knowing what you are talking about.
If you are admitting you don't have my insight, then why are you still trying to argue me down. Obviously you are not equipt to do so, so why not just bow out with your face still intact?
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If you are so "confident" instead of "pompous" then why the fear of a little wager? Put up or shut up.
Your wager is as stupid as your evidence you have presented in this thread. I do not throw good money after stupid causes, it takes away from me purchasing bluray's for my enjoyment. If you don't have the insight that I have, why don't you just shut up?
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Well, yes after all, when it comes to determining what we're going to talk about, you are the decider...
Well, in this case Mr Peabody decided what we are going to talk about. He chose the subject matter, a subject that you have no background in, no way to interpret anything, and no point of reference to guide your opinions. He set the scope of the topic, HD DVD and Bluray, of which you have a terrible time staying on. When we are discussing conspiracy theories, then what you have presented may have some traction. Within the contexted of this particular subject, you do not.
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Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
You are welcome to hijack this thread all you want, just don't go b!tchin' about it or about those who do. I was staying on topic and I disagree with what SirTtT is saying...just because I disagree doesn't mean that he is wrong or right, it's just my opinion. I don't like people who can't admit when they are wrong simple as that. If you have a problem with me, start a thread about it...and bring your pack of wild dogs too!
Actually you didn't disagree with anything I said, you just called me pompous, and that is just name calling, not disagreement. Now if your opinion is that I am pompous, then yes, you were stating your opinion. However that would make you a thread hyjacker and off topic.
When I am wrong, I admit I am wrong. When I am right, don't expect me to admit that I am wrong, that wouldn't make any sense whatsoever. I have supported everything that I have said with open, and verifiable facts and figures. The only way to prove me wrong is to produce evidence that my facts and figures are incorrect. So far that has not been done.
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Originally Posted by L.J.
Interesting that you start your stupid PS vs PX catfight thread to try and call out PX when you do the same thing. Troll Killer? Please.
THANK YOU!!!:thumbsup:
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The comment about hiding the special effects by lowering the light was interesting.
I have always been fascinated by how the flaws in a moivie stick out on higher resolution
devices.
"Start trek is now basically guys running around the galaxy in spandex long johns.
And it wasn't until the special edition of Wizard of Oz that I noticed the clear plastic bubble around glenda's head.
Eventually moviemakers will have to bite the bullet and "clean up" special effects if they don't want their stuff laughed at, such the "redone" starwars" .
And classic DR who also does the same thing. The ark in space has two editions, one with digital effects and the classic version for purists.
And this shows what a visionary RIDLEY SCOTT was (and is).
Both Blade runner and Alien hold up well in high def:1:
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Originally Posted by L.J.
I'm not too concerned about this thread or jacking it. I don't need to start a "vs" thread. I got better things to do than try and bring attention to myself like some people. You know, those that put "vs" threads in the news/rumor forum so everyone can be sure to see. We do have a off topic forum you know.
I don't have a problem with you, I just simply don't like you. You run your fat mouth too much, you cry and complain too much. Maybe you should try shuttin' up for a bit and stop hatin'.
Wild dogs? Please, your still kidding yourself. As much as you would love it, I'm sure everyone has something better to do than worry about you.
Whatever you say Pix#2.
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Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
Whatever you say Pix#2.
Ssssshhhhhhhh!!!! There there, it'll be alright :out:
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Is Sir. T ever wrong? Statistically speaking....
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I work in the film industry, and I know my industry very well....After doing this some 25 years, you do build close cozy relationships with some well placed people from all of the studios. I see nothing bad about that, audioreview and my wallet over the years has benefitted greatly from my cozy relationships.
What is wrong with that is two-fold:
1. You have an interest. It's sort of like a speaker evaluator for Sound & Vision who has an interest in not insulting the speaker manufacturer because the manufacturer could without the product for evaluation. Your access is predicated on being partial.
2. The picture you paint from your inside sources does not consider factors in other related industries. Things such as chip manufacturing, politics in Myanmar, and what Alan Greenspan publishes in his new book all can have an impact on this industry.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You are only making this statement because in this thread, you have been consistantly wrong.
If I am discussing things outside of your area of expertise, how can you be so sure they are wrong? Or are you an expert at everything?
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Considering the fact your posts have been just as long as mine..kettle meet black, black meet kettle.
Actually, that's because responding to you takes that much. If you look at any of the Sir.T-free threads that I contribute to, you'll notice they are shorter, more cordial, and dare I say, funny. This thread is one long miserable debate about getting you to look outside of your petty little world.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Have you read all 1907 of my posts? Then how in the name of the holy one can you make such an unintelligent statement? Read them all, then make that kind of statement if you can.
Find me one thread, just one, where you admit to being wrong. I can't read all your threads, but I did a quick search through most of them for the word "wrong" and aside from all the times you tell others that they are wrong, I haven't found anything. If you can find one, I will admit that I was wrong for making the statement. Put up or shut up.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You hit no nerve, so far you have only hit air.
Well it certainly got your panties in a bunch, from reading the posts.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
There is more than two pages of you and I going back and forth. You have had more than enough oportunity to challenge my stats and figures concerning bluray and HD DVD. You have presented nothing, not a damn thing that refutes anything I have stated. The figures are out there to challenge, yet you have not one quantifiable peice of fact that rebutes, disputes, or even slightly weaken anything I have said.
I thought I was doing just that. Maybe you're forgetting how to read? I'll repeat it again: stats are inherently incomplete - they are estimates. You keep harping on how I don't refute your figures, but if I say they are not accurate, how is that not addressing your point? Oh, I see, you need me to say by how much they are inaccurate, right? Well that would just be another stat, inherently questionable too, and you'd probably relish in pointing that out, I'm sure. This discussion would never end. Look, however disturbing it is for you to think outside of your mathematical sandbox, this format war, economics, society, nature and everything else in the universe cannot be completely defined with stats. They are estimates.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Where is the information you have to rebut mine????
It's in the books I listed, that you conveniently dismiss as irrelevant to this argument. If I could just get you to read one book (because apparently you are so busy shimmying up to your industry buddies), then it would be How to Lie with Statistics. I think they even made that into a "For Dummies" book with plenty of cartoons - you should be able to read that, at least.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You can't just state it, you have to PROVE it. So where is your evidence. links, links to direct quotes, anything, Bueller?
Hey, I'd rather be Ferris any day than the teacher. As a matter of fact, you remind me of him. Will you be doing Vizine commercials next? The evidence is outside of the official insider info, are you sure you want to hear it? OK, I'll try again: stats are estimates. Did you survive the shock? OK, let's try this one then: stats are skewed to the interest of the person collecting them. Still standing? OK, maybe you can handle this one: the unknowns outside of the observed population can invalidate the results. I know that last one is a shocker - I knew you wouldn't have the stomach for it, although you really could have tossed your cookies to the side instead of all owver yourself. Hey, but at least you can tell your insider friends that you were schooled in Stats 101 by none other than Ferris Bueller. Wana "Save Ferris" T-shirt?
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Unlike yourself, I operate under the presumption that stats and figures are correct until proven not.
Spoken like a true black and white egghead. The math may be perfect, but you seem to forget the most basic tenet of statistics: they are estimates.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You work the other way around which leaves the burden of proof right in your lap. Just because you don't like the stats and figures, or do not have access to them, doesn't give you the right to outright dismiss them.
I didn't dismiss them. I left them standing right where you left them. They're still there. I even said that I can't argue against them - or let me be more specific - I can't argue against the math. What I said is that I don't accept them as the whole picture - I'm pretty sure I said that multiple times. The fact is you cannot say that they are, it's mathematically illogical. You also cannot account for outside factors.
Now let's be clear: I said that because they have a degree of error, because they are collected by entities with vested interests, and because of the uncertainty of outside factors, they are not the complete picture of what is happening with this format war.
These are not conspiracy theories, muddle, or unknowns. They are facts (I know how you like facts). If you want, I can rephrase that in reference to the BR / HDDVD format war:
Because your insider industry information has a degree of error (check you freshman math classes), because they are collected by parties with vested interests (the industry insiders and apparently, your wallet), and because of the uncertainty of outside factors (VOD, manufacturing shortages, politics, economics, etc.), the statistics you have presented on BR and HDDVD do not represent the complete picture.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
These same facts and figures that you choose to ignore to support your point are paid for, and used by thousands of companies all over the world.
Yes, they are paid for. That is one of my points right?
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
So it is up to you to go directly to Neilsons, and tell them their sales figures they offer to the studios and manufacturers all over the world are incorrect, because nightflyer says they are based on a political, economic, mathmatical and procedural basis.
Apparently they know it. The fine print on everything they publish states quite plainly that their conclusions are "estimates." It is you and other yahoos cheering on their chosen format who make them more than they are. Face it, you have a vested interest in making that 2-1 margin larger. Are you really that angry at Toshiba, or just a little hot under the collar?
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
It will only be as riveting as it applies specifically to this arguement.
It pertains to statistics. Isn't that what we are talking about? Sales figures, rental figures, etc. Or are you referring to the super "inside" information that only your ears are privy to, and us lesser peons can only hope to understand from your vaulted pedantry?
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Since it does not, I have other material I would rather read.
Yeah, we know, your precious stats.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I really do not have the time to read material that re-inforces you obvious paranoia, or your doubts about any and all information. When you can prove its applicability to this particular subject, then it becomes a compelling read to me. Otherwise, it is more crap thrown against the wall.
My appologies your highness. I am sorry to have troubled your precious mind with statistics. Are you sure you're not related to our president? 'Cause you two sure have a disdain for anything outside of your own realities. It may be genetic. Are your parents like that too? Hmmm that would explain a lot.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Not one of your links are applicable to this particular arguement. Not one address this particular issue. You have not been able to prove how they are applicable to this subject, and you have not presented a single opposing bit of information that directly challenges anything I have stated.
Well how would you know since you have not had the time in your busy shmoozing schedule to read them? Oh, you perused them? Well then I will presume that we can continue the discussion. So let's see if I can tie this all together for you so that it addresses the BR/HDVD format war to your satisfaction: If statistics are estimates, and your whole argument that BR is winning the war is based on them, then your conclusion is also an estimate. It is not the complete picture. The complete picture is that we don't know who will win, we don't know if either will win, and we don't know what else will win. I'm hedging my best on VOD, but I'm not going to say it's a definite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
That is why it is muddle, because there is no proof that what you have advanced in this arguement is applicable to this arguement.
Sounds a little doublespeak-ish to me, but I'll see if I can address that. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there will be no new numbers, stats, or figures forthcoming from me. So if your whole strategy was to refute them, you should probably rethink your plan of attack. My argument is that your numbers are questionable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
When you can show me that what you have stated trumps what I have stated ON THIS ISSUE, then you have my attention.
I never set out to trump your figures. I clearly stated that. I am merely questioning their complete validity. If that doesn't grab your attention, then what will?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Actually no. The established boundaries are the topic at hand, HD DVD and Bluray sales figures and stats. Anything that is not relevant to this topic is outside the bounds of this discussion. This includes your links to an unrelated issue, to an unrelated industry, and unsubstantiated claims you make.
No Mr. Peabody specifically asked for new and other info related to a statistic of 67% in favor of BR sales. News and info does not have to be just statistics. If a large shipment of BR players from China was to sink in the pacific, that would also be relevant. You're the one who just wants to talk about specific statistics (and your insider info).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I cannot PRE-screen anything looking for relevance. I cannot do it because I cannot read your mind.
I think you misunderstand "pre-screen." What I was trying to say is that you establish before hand what can be considered relevant and then build your argument within only those parameters that you approve of. Anything that anyone brings up that does not fit your boundaries is dismissed outright as irrelevant. How exactly is that not narrow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
What I can do is look at what you presented as evidence to support your theories, and it is clear that what was presented is completely unrelated. I never saw any link directing its attention to HD DVD or Bluray sales figures. If there is, and I missed it, please show me.
Your argument is about statistics. I questioned statistics. I didn't dismiss them like you do, I just suggested that they were not the complete picture. So questioning statistics, when you present statistics is irrelevant? Boy, you sure know how to narrow a topic down to your own needs. Of course, the narrower you get, the less of the whole picture we get to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
So you understand this clearly. You do not know when I am hot under the collar. You don't know me personally, and it is impossible to see me over the internet. So once again, before you make any statement regarding anyone state of mind, make sure you can support that claim with SOME evidence. Is that so hard?
"...This is fluff and blather. WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE THAT MAKES THIS APPLICABLE TO THIS DISCUSSION!!!!!" and "You have presented ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that..." and "Actually it IS the point!!!"
I'm sorry, is that calm and composed? Boy, I hope I don't have to read what happens when you do get upset. I also don't think I need to "see" (huh?) you over the internet to get the idea that you are getting out of control. Well if this is normal, then I must have misread your state of mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
What does seniority buy me here?? This I am curious to know.
Well now that I think of it, it certainly doesn't buy you respect. And what's with this need to always buy something? Is this something that is for sale here on AR? With your deep pockets that gives you an unfair advantage, doesn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
So what you are now advancing is that I come to your side of thinking, that makes me magnanimous. Just tell you that you are right (inspite of the fact you offered no evidence applicable to this arguement) and that shows that I am rational.
Never said anything of the sort, you're twisting my words around to mold them to your argument. Hell no to that, man. I didn't ask you to say that I'm right. Even if I asked you to say that you were wrong about the format war (and I'm not doing that either), that wouldn't necessarily imply that I was right (simple logic, man, just follow along). I asked you to broaden your horizons to the possibility that there is something beyond your statistics. If you would just see outside of your created reality, you'd see that there's a whole world of interesting alternatives out here: VOD could eclipse both, HDDVD could win, neither would replace DVD, the format war could go on for years, the possibilities are endless, really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Had you had even a shred of support for your arguement, you probably could have swayed me...
Since to the best of my knowledge no one has ever been able to prove the great almighty Sir T. wrong, I seriously doubt that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You would like for me to be upset, but those who know me here know that I don't get upset in online debates.
Well, you seemed pretty upset before. Did you take your pills, now? Can we proceed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
This is first entertainment, and second a way to exchange information, and thirdly a way to educate people about the movie business.
There you go again dictating the boundaries. What you think this forum is, isn't what other may think it is. It is not entertainment before everything else. I'd like to think that that would be secondary or even lower on the list. I know that the newbies who come here looking for help (before you make them feel infinitesimally small), see the entertainment value quite a bit further down the list. No wonder you have no respect for other people's opinions, this is just entertainment to you. Talk about a god-complex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Beside I can just tell you that my true color is brown. I was a ligher shade at birth, but too many on location shoots has left me a little tanned. As far as the tiny red loin cloth, well I would rather have nothing since neither suggestion would cover much.
Huh? I was talking about the colors red, white and blue and what they stand for. You obviously don't know much about allegory or symbolism either. And nobody wants to see you naked, man. Keep those pics off the AR gallery.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Actually you debated better in that arguement by far than you have done here. I least you remained on topic, which is something you have completely failed to do here. At least you provided some credible support for your arguements in that subject, something you have failed to do here as well.
Well thank you for the compliments, I didn't think you had it in you. But I think that when you come to see the world outside of your own boundaries, you'll see that I was pretty accurate here too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Actually so you do not have to continually repeat your own lies, it is "outside the boundaries of the topic" not outside my boundaries. Big difference
Hey, buddy, I'm repeating your inconsistencies, because you don't seem to read them. You're the one who narrows Mr. Peabody's request for news and info to just statistics, and then only those statistics from your "inside" sources. You are the one who narrowed the boundaries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Presenting valid and relevant facts that support an arguement is why we are here. You haven't done that at all period. When it is not relevant, its dismissed because it is not relevant. Please do not tell this lie again, I did read you post, that is why I know they are outside the bounds of HD DVD and Bluray. You know they are too so let's not act like you are talking to a fool okay.
I never said that any of the links and books I presented where specifically about BR & HDDVD. I said they are about statistics. And since your whole argument is about the supposed irrefutable completeness of statistics, I think that makes them pretty relevant. The fact is, and this is probably why you are so upset, that the questioning of statistics shakes up your whole world view. If statistics are questioned you have nothing solid to stand on and that is a very uncomfortable position for you to be in. It's uncertain, inexact, and ambiguous. Well welcome to the universe, man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Did I tell you that you cannot post? Am I a moderator? Do I control your actions on this board? No to all questions, so just how in the heck am I stifling dissent.
You dismiss everything outside of your precious statistics as irrelevant. That is stifling dissent. You say it has no place on this thread. That is stifling dissent. You won't even discuss it. That is stifling dissent. If my evidence is not good enough for your lofty boundaries, how can I present my case? You are stifling dissent.
Just FYI, that is a position of intellectual weakness. That's from another author you've probably never heard of: Hana Arendt. She's pretty big, though, look it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
This is obviously a massive case of passive/agressive.
Oh, so now you want to talk psychology? You're way out of your league, here. Statistics are pretty shaky in the field of psychology. I'd run back to your own sandbox before someone gives you a sand wedgie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Presenting a book on conspiracy theories...
I presented no conspiracy theory books. I assure you the books I presented are well researched by academics, journalists, doctors, etc. And they are reviewed by peers. Anyhow, how would you know? You haven't read them.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
stats and figure manipulation is far outside of the HD DVD and Bluray arguement.
You're really gona stand by that? Weren't you saying that you base your whole argument on statistics? Or are you gona do a quick reversal and tell us it's also from your "inside" sources, the ones that we can't corroborate? Well which is it?
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Sorry nightflyer, but Neilson has built their business on amassing numbers and stats, and guess what, many a company pays for it.
No need to apologize, I'm not wrong. The very fact that you put "Neilsen" and "business" in the same breath is troubling, don't you think? It's bought and paid for, I think we've established that.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Has any company paid you for the figures and stats you amassed? No, and for a good reason, you have none.
Actually you know nothing about what I've written and published. But no, you're right, I have never been paid for any of it, if that's your only criteria (and it shouldn't be).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
If a mega billion dollar industry can rely on the figures they amass, then it really doesn't mean a whole lot that you don't trust them.
Are you hearing what you are saying? You are telling me that these figures with billions at stake are from the very industry that stands to benefit, right? How does that not give you the willies that this is perhaps not accurate? It means a whole lot that I don't trust them and you shouldn't either, at least not completely and unequivocally as you apparently do.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
What would you use to find trends in your business, your gut? See how far that gets you.
I've managed my own business for some time, so again, don't presume you know that much about me. I can tell you that statistics are useful, sure, but almost never representative of the whole picture. People shouldn't be lemmings to "official" information - it's what gets us into wars, makes us believe that Fox is news, that there will be plenty of oil forever, that China will always provide us with cheap low & mid-fi, and that BR has won this format war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Different sources provide different facts. Not all of my sources are used for just one thing. They span the gamut of the industry. If all of my sources agree, then a trend exists. So where are your sources that invalidate mine?
I never set out to completely dismiss your sources. I only said they were not complete. And the broader your sources, the more chance for variance - it's just mathematical probability. You seem bent on the idea that I want to invalidate everything you present. So who's paranoid, now? I'm not out to get you. Frankly I could care a flying flaming fairy fart less about you, your insider information, and your seniority on AR. You are completely irrelevant to my point about statistics. You just want to carry the torch for such a narrow focussed argument that you think it makes the whole case. It doesn't. Get over yourself.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
He's not me thought right?
Let me quote you verbatim. You said: "No one has proclaimed a winner here. NO ONE." Except that Pixel did. And to be frank, your own flag waiving is pretty transparent too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Your perspective is outside the boundaries of the topic, not my boundaries. Since mine are inside, then their relevancy cannot be disputed. If you cannot understand that logic, then logic completely escapes you.
Do you hear yourself saying this? I mean, it's almost comical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I do know my industry, and there is nothing pompous about that. Its why I have been pretty sucessful at what I do, because I know what I am doing within the industry I work.
That's just the problem. You're within the industry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You can't build an arguement on unknowns because they're unknown. Only a person with no arguement works off of unknowns. Unknowns do not shape a industry, only knowns do. Do you think a business makes a business decision based on unknowns? I know of none that do.
I'm not building my argument on just unknowns (you should really get yourself some glasses and read what I actually wrote). I said that the unknowns may be significant, perhaps overwhelming. I also said that statistics were inherently questionable and that you have an interest. Since you're obviously making a hansome profit from your pontification, I hardly think that is up for debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
What is uncomfortable to me is having someone try and tell me what I already know well, when they don't know much about anything to do with the industry I work in. I wouldn't begin to debate you on what you do for a living, I wouldn't know what I was talking about, just like in this case you don't.
Well it's good for you I'm not a debate coach. Or am I? Wait a minute, weren't you trying to tell me a thing or two about computers? Downloads? The internet? Maybe I invented the Internet? You don't know. That's an unknown that may just be relevant here, heck it could even be overwhelmingly more important than the knowns. Don't even try to throw sand in my sandbox - you will get hurt.
What is uncomfortable to me is someone who is so rigidly stuck on their own facts, won't admit that they may be wrong, and wants to stifle all dissent. We've met your types before throughout history and it's never been a pleasant outcome. Did you fail history in school too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You are making an assumption of fear. How about I have better things to bet on that are less stupid and a waste of time.
It's not like there's any of your precious money on the line. We're only wagering on who will admit to being wrong. You threw down the gauntlet, I picked it up. What? Is that too far outside of your boundaries?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You are going to wait to see what the media says, and you chide me for using "official" sources. Okay, I am done with your contradictory perspective. The media is the last place for accurate information, I would rather go to the data collectors before the media. They at least have the obligation to check and re-check their information. The media has no such constraints.
Well, what media would you consider within your boundaries? A/V mags? Newspapers? Books? White papers? The Wall Street Journal? What are you willing to exclude to arrive at your desired conclusions? Sounds to me like you are obsessed with defining the boundaries of this argument. Personally, I would feel more comfortable with sources from a broader perspective, you know, to get the whole picture. Oh, that's right you don't want the whole picture. Just your own narrow sandbox will do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Your last paragraph is a prime example of your lack of focus on this whole subject. You distrust the people that gather the information, but trust the people that report it. How stupid is that? It is contradictory, and doesn't make a damn bit of sense. Your whole perspective on this has been rather schizophrenic and weird, do you want to try this again?
I will consider all reasonable sources, and I think Mr. Peabody and most others here will too. Even if it's on a blog, it will have relevance if viewed in the context of the whole picture. If the scope is too narrow, then it is inevitable that something just slightly larger will supplant it. But that's where you want to define it. It's moronic, I know, but I can't seem to make that clear enough.
[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]You think the Iraq war is black and white? Why did we go in there in the first place? If you come up with just one answer, you are already contridicting your President. He so far has had three different reason and three different times as to why we went there. That is not so black and white.[[QUOTE]
You really can't read can you? I said that people think about war in black and white. It's what gets them to go along with it. The complexity of this war, the history, the culture, the languages, the politics are infinitely more complex and gray. And what you are desperately trying to address is just the hard numbers, the black and white, if you will, without taking into account that the real issue is the people's attitudes in choosing one format over an other, the vagaries of the technology, and the market trends that shape this war, the vague, the unknowns, and the gray.
Now I think I'm beginning to undertsand why you are coming off so myopic about this format war. You see war (Iraq or format) as confusing and complex so you want to slap some numbers on it to make sense of it. You have a type-A obsession to define, reduce, categorize, enumerate, compartmentalize, and quantify it. Well, the reality is that your quest is a fantasy. No amount of statistical analysis is going to get you the answers you want - it can never be the whole picture with just mathematical parameters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Consfusion is a byproduct of war. Look at what the Iraq war has done to this country. We are completely confused as to why we went there in the first place, and why we are still there as well.
I'm not confused. Most people aren't confused. They know it's to make a few people richer. They may not want to admit it, but it's pretty simple really. What the "official" sources would have you believe is that we should be thoroughly confused about it. This is why Limbaugh, O'Reily and the lot are spreading FUD. The simple people cannot possibly undertstand the complexities, so just let us politicians, billionaires, and paid pundits worry about it. Hmmm, kind of like people claiming that we here can't possibly be ready to hear the "insider" information, so it's up to a few select and privileged "individuals" to disseminate it for us, the simpletons, the hoi polloi.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Never owned Netscape
That was a joke, duh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
...but have plenty of Google, Yahoo, and oil stocks right now though.
Oil stocks? Interesting. I suppose in act 2, you're going to convince us that alternate fuels are irrelevant too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
If you are admitting you don't have my insight, then why are you still trying to argue me down. Obviously you are not equipt to do so, so why not just bow out with your face still intact?
I'm not after you. I could care less about you. What I care about is this over-reliance on "official" sources. I'm not saying they are irrelevant, I'm saying there's more to the story. I've pointed that out in more ways than one. And frankly, you've refused to address any of those. My face is fine, thank you, but yours seems to have some egg on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Your wager is as stupid as your evidence you have presented in this thread.
Then why not back up what you're claiming? Or are you afraid that it will prove to be the first time ever that you will have to admit to being wrong? Either put up or shut up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I do not throw good money after stupid causes, it takes away from me purchasing bluray's for my enjoyment.
Here you go again with the money. Don't your industry buddies pay you enough to stop worrying about it? For the umptieth time, there's no money involved in this wager. Either put up or shut up. Or as my grandfather used to say, either sh*t or get off the pot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
If you don't have the insight that I have, why don't you just shut up?
So let me get this straight. Because I don't have access to your "inside" sources, I need to shut up? Then everyone here should just shut up, right? Maybe if all of AR were filled with your 1900+ posts only, the world would be a better place? Now how would that be useful? It would be narrow, to be sure, it would make you happy, I'm sure too, but how would that be of any use to those who do not see this forum as just "entertainment"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Well, in this case Mr Peabody decided what we are going to talk about. He chose the subject matter, a subject that you have no background in, no way to interpret anything, and no point of reference to guide your opinions. He set the scope of the topic, HD DVD and Bluray, of which you have a terrible time staying on.
No I have a hard time staying on the topic that you have defined and narrowed down from what Mr. Peabody requested. That's a bit different from your undertsanding of where we got started.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
When we are discussing conspiracy theories, then what you have presented may have some traction. Within the contexted of this particular subject, you do not.
I presented no conspiracy theories. I presented well researched and peer-reviewed books. Oh, I'm sorry is that beyond the scope of where you want to keep it? Who made you the decider? Oh, I know, you decided that yourself. Are you absolutely sure you're not related to Bush? Maybe just dipping your nose into the snuff box too much?
Well that was a non-productive way for me to spend the late morning. You can bring a mule to water...
All kidding aside, you need to be willing to talk about the facts I have presented:
- Statistics are estimates
- Statistics are biased towards the entity collecting the data
- Statistics do not address the unknowns
We can argue forever, and I won't shy away from it, but if you can't look beyond what you have defined as the parameters of this discussion, then I really have nothing to discuss with you. My simple point is that statistics and inside information do not present a complete picture. I believe that is why Mr. Peabody started this thread. Does 67% in favor of Blu-Ray make this a format war a done deal? My answer is that it doesn't.
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One Serious Battle...
Man, this one is fierce. It takes 20-minutes just to wade through all of the back-and-forth retorts. I do see valid points from both sides, but I am with Nightflier on this issue. SirTTT reminds me of those writers from WidescreenReview who at one point were calling DVD a 'perfect' medium and their reviews gave 5/5's for picture or sound and were often times too favorable, which only makes sense...they are not going to trash DVD's when they are being supplied with them by vendors. They were very biased in their reviews and their version of 'reference' quality was always limited. Now comes Blu-ray...with superior picture and sound, so what does that mean for DVD? Well, now those ratings are skewed. How can you rate something on a sliding scale? In 5-10 years there will be something superior to Blu-ray or maybe Blu-ray will still be around, but it will have evolved into a superior format than where it is now. What is the point of reference? The 35mm film? From what I have seen of Blu-ray it definitely has a stunning resolution in picture, but does not have the color fidelity of true film, nor does it has the saturation. Same goes for HD-DVD.
When I mentioned the LD for BRAM STOKER's DRACULA it was simply the best reference piece to bring up for the new BR disc. Why? Not for a resolution comparison, but for the color. I am sure that the BR disc is far superior in terms of resolution, but I do wonder how the Video Black and Video Red look on that disc....this film has been plagued by issues in those areas on just about every format. I saw this film twice in the movie theater and it was incredibly dark to begin with, but the red was still vibrant and stunning and again....there were issues on the DVD that somehow turned things that were meant to be green to an orange color and vise versa. The Criterion Laserdisc was the best way to see this film at home (until the new BR disc arrives/arrived).
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4 Attachment(s)
Check out this....
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Right after your first post on the Dracula movie, Sir T posted "I agree", referring to the assumption that many made, the movie was a poor transfer from DSD. If he was really involved with Blu-ray.com, Terrence, being what he is, would have jumped at the chance to set things straight right then, and took another opportunity to boast about his supposed affiliation with the biz. But he didn't, because he really had no idea, so he Googled around, and then posted a few lines from the article that apparently didn't get highlighted when I copied it. Then put on his pose to try to save face. If it hasn't been deleted, his stumble is right on this thread. I for one have always doubted Sir T's claims to be in the biz. I believe he is a very insecure person who feels he has to build himself up in order to be accepted and try to be the big fish in a small pond. I have to give him credit I've never seen anyone twist peoples statements around to try to make them say something that was not originally intended. He missed his calling, he should be in politics.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
Right after your first post on the Dracula movie, Sir T posted "I agree", referring to the assumption that many made, the movie was a poor transfer from DSD. If he was really involved with Blu-ray.com, Terrence, being what he is, would have jumped at the chance to set things straight right then, and took another opportunity to boast about his supposed affiliation with the biz. But he didn't, because he really had no idea, so he Googled around, and then posted a few lines from the article that apparently didn't get highlighted when I copied it. Then put on his pose to try to save face. If it hasn't been deleted, his stumble is right on this thread. I for one have always doubted Sir T's claims to be in the biz. I believe he is a very insecure person who feels he has to build himself up in order to be accepted and try to be the big fish in a small pond. I have to give him credit I've never seen anyone twist peoples statements around to try to make them say something that was not originally intended. He missed his calling, he should be in politics.
I spoke with my friend recently who watched the Blu-ray Disc and also went back and took out his Criterion Ed. Laser of BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA. I also asked him about the documentary on the Blu-ray as it features clips from the film as well. My friend also saw the film when it was released theatrically in 1992 and also has seen, but does not own the Superbit DVD from Columbia Tristar. Our conversation basically talked about color depth, accuracy, detail, and of course the black levels, Video Red, and overall fidelity of the picture. We briefly discussed the sound too. Here is a snapshot of our conversation...
His first impression of the Blu-ray was....ehhh. He actually took the Blu-ray around to a few shops in his area and played them on some high-end projection systems as well as a 50" DLP, Plasma, and a 42" LCD for a true comparison. He said that projected the film actually looked more film-like in quality, while the LCD/Plasma/DLP showed off the resolution a bit more. Color fidelity seemed more accurate and he said it was more like the Laserdisc in nature. Although comparing overall resolution is invalid here. He also commented on just how dark the Blu-ray looks overall. Contrast seems to be the bigger issue as he said that theatrically the film was able to show detail and depth, but also remain dark and that seemed to be the case across the board on all playbacks. I can easily see why too, I mean film is still the winner when it comes to being able to show a films true contrast and formats like DVD and Blu-ray have limitations still. Video Red he said was better, but still veered towards a more orang-ish nature, again this seemed to be true across all playbacks. Now this still might be an approval directors edition of the film, but he said theatrically the film definitely was a true deep red, I also agree...the film was RED RED RED. Skin-tones were definitely more orange in the film and the Blu-ray does seem to get that right, If you notice on the screen captures that I posted and the link to that website you can see how they are more rich in nature and fidelity. This is how I remember the film being in the theater and also on the LD.
We briefly talked about the sound, I remember playing the Superbit a few years ago and being unimpressed. First, the surrounds never seemed that engaging and I remember having to really turn the film up to get a huge soundstage out of it. He commented that the sound on the Blu-ray regains much of the character of the film and the musical score really shines. He described the audio track as being good, but not a reference disc by any stretch of the imagination.
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3 Attachment(s)
Some pix....
First image is the Laserdisc, then the DVD, then the Blu-ray. I know how to use GOOGLE too!!!!
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5 Attachment(s)
Not bad for Laserdisc...
Check out some of these images....
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Bsd...
I don't know if SirTtT works for Blu-ray.com or not, I could really care less, if he does...he does and if not, well then he rips stuff from their forum them. Whatever the case on this whole BRAM STOKER's DRACULA Blu-ray the bottom line is this: majority of fans and people that have seen it are not impressed and whether or not it's approved means very little if it's causing this much of a big deal. Obviously something is out-of-whack. Either a lot of people and fans are wrong and their memory of this film is bogus and they never really saw the film the way it should be or this new Approved Transfer is junk.
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Newbie Here...
Ok, this is my first post and I was hesitant to post on this site after reading this thread because it would seem that everything that I said would be picked apart by the vultures here. Maybe i'll hang around for a bit and see before I post much.
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Originally Posted by projection
Ok, this is my first post and I was hesitant to post on this site after reading this thread because it would seem that everything that I said would be picked apart by the vultures here. Maybe i'll hang around for a bit and see before I post much.
Well, unfortunately this thread has got a little out of hand, but most of the time you will see that most of us get along fairly well around here. I am guilty of being a feeder to the trolls around here, if you haven't met Pixelthis yet, I am sure you will soon enough.
Hope you stick around!
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Originally Posted by nightflier
What is wrong with that is two-fold:
1. You have an interest. It's sort of like a speaker evaluator for Sound & Vision who has an interest in not insulting the speaker manufacturer because the manufacturer could without the product for evaluation. Your access is predicated on being partial.
2. The picture you paint from your inside sources does not consider factors in other related industries. Things such as chip manufacturing, politics in Myanmar, and what Alan Greenspan publishes in his new book all can have an impact on this industry.
Nice try on this one. I do not have an interest or investments in HD DVD or BDA stock. I just have two players, one HD DVD and one PS3. Just like alot of people do. I do not review HD equipment, do not review movies anymore, and do not accept money from either HD DVD PG or the BDA. So your comparison falls short on some many levels its not funny. Do you want to try again?
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If I am discussing things outside of your area of expertise, how can you be so sure they are wrong? Or are you an expert at everything?
You are talking about something completely unrelated to HD DVD and Bluray, and the post is about HD DVD and BR. Your information makes no mention of either, which makes it off topic and non relevant. You have not been able to directly tie up your point to HD DVD or Bluray, so what you purport as relevant is not UNLESS it mentions HD DVD or Bluray. Simple logic.
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Actually, that's because responding to you takes that much. If you look at any of the Sir.T-free threads that I contribute to, you'll notice they are shorter, more cordial, and dare I say, funny. This thread is one long miserable debate about getting you to look outside of your petty little world.
Why would I look beyond HD DVD and Bluray(my little world) when the topic is about HD DVD and Bluray?? At least someone thinks your posts are funny.....
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Find me one thread, just one, where you admit to being wrong. I can't read all your threads, but I did a quick search through most of them for the word "wrong" and aside from all the times you tell others that they are wrong, I haven't found anything. If you can find one, I will admit that I was wrong for making the statement. Put up or shut up.
You are the one that made the accusation that I believe that I am always right, now you have to prove that statement. It is ass backwards to accuse me of something, and then prove your statement, that's your job, something that you have continued to fail at time and time again. You made the accusation, now you prove it. If you can't then you need to shut up about that point and move on. If I do not know about the topic enough to effectively debate it, I won't respond. If I do know about it, don't expect me to admit I am wrong unless you prove that I am wrong. So far you haven't, so you need to move off this point. You are wasting my time, and the sites bandwidth
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Well it certainly got your panties in a bunch, from reading the posts.
You would like to believe you have some impact on me, but you don't. In fact, you have been quite a bore because you have put nothing out there to support your beliefs. Not one damn piece of anything. No you find yourself just focusing on me, and people usually do that online when they have nothing to stand on. Don't have any evidence to support what you say, then just attack the other party personally. If all you have is to attack me personally, then we should take this to PM
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I thought I was doing just that. Maybe you're forgetting how to read? I'll repeat it again: stats are inherently incomplete - they are estimates.
Sales figures are not, they are done deals.
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You keep harping on how I don't refute your figures, but if I say they are not accurate, how is that not addressing your point?
You have not PROVED my figures are inaccurate, you are just making a claim. You have not directly challenged the figures with figures of your own from a credible source that refutes mine. You cannot call a crook a crook until you prove that he or she created a crime. Just saying they're inaccurate with no proof doesn't mean you addressed the issue. Can't you understand that??
[quote Oh, I see, you need me to say by how much they are inaccurate, right? Well that would just be another stat, inherently questionable too, and you'd probably relish in pointing that out, I'm sure. This discussion would never end. Look, however disturbing it is for you to think outside of your mathematical sandbox, this format war, economics, society, nature and everything else in the universe cannot be completely defined with stats. They are estimates.[/quote]
Sales figures are not just stats. Sales figures can be made into stat's, but that doesn't invalidate them, especially because you say so.
So I am going to give you another chance to prove what you state.
Bluray is outsold HD DVD 61-39% based on sales figures accumulated by Video Business and NDP for last week only. Do you disagree with this? Can you offer up anything that states the NDP's and VB figures are not correct? Do you have sales figures from another source that disputes this?
Year to date Bluray is outselling HD DVD 67-33% based on monthly sales figures compiled from retailers over the last 10 months. Also from NDP and Video Business, Do you contest this figure as well? Can you offer up anything that states that NDP sales figures for HD DVD and Bluray have been incorrect for the year to date? Do you have sales figures from another source that refutes this?
In the last couple of months NDP and Video Business has reported that Bluray standalone players have been outselling HD DVD standalones 55-45%. Do you dispute NDP or VB findings, and have evidence that NDP and VB are incorrect?
Since inception, Bluray is outselling HD DVD 60-40% as reported my Video Business and NDP, do you have any other source that refutes or counters these figures?
Do you have any evidence that Video Business and NDP sales figures on Bluray and HD DVD players and software are incorrect? Evidence from another sources that refutes these figures?
Now you cannot say that they are incorrect because you say so, or because of some academic reason. You need to directly challenge what I have stated with physical proof(links to other sources, charts and data) so that every here understands why you state they are incorrect.
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It's in the books I listed, that you conveniently dismiss as irrelevant to this argument. If I could just get you to read one book (because apparently you are so busy shimmying up to your industry buddies), then it would be How to Lie with Statistics. I think they even made that into a "For Dummies" book with plenty of cartoons - you should be able to read that, at least.
The book does not state that HD DVD and Bluray sales figures are incorrect. It doesn't say that recent sales figures of bluray and HD DVD standalones have been incorrectly reported does it?
Personal insults do not prove your point. It just proves that you have no point, so you attack the person. I challenge you to stay on topic and stop trying to make this about me, and what you think of me. I don't care what you think about me, but I do care that you stay on topic. Can you do that?
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Hey, I'd rather be Ferris any day than the teacher. As a matter of fact, you remind me of him. Will you be doing Vizine commercials next? The evidence is outside of the official insider info, are you sure you want to hear it? OK, I'll try again: stats are estimates.
What I'll be doing next is none of you business and not apart of this topic. Sales figures are not estimates. Sales either happen, or they don't. Retailers need sales figures so they can manage their business. You cannot manage a retail business based on estimates when you have expenses based on realities.
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Did you survive the shock? OK, let's try this one then: stats are skewed to the interest of the person collecting them. Still standing?
NDP has no interest in Sales figures for HD DVD and Bluray, they just collect the data, and sell it to interested parties. The parties skew the data in their own interest. So let's break this down for those who have difficulty with reading comprehension.
NDP--->Sony, Disney, Fox, Paramount, Universal etc.---->data manipulation. NDP has no interest in skewing data, the studios and manufacturers do. I get my sales data from NDP directly, and compare what they have to other sources to make sure they agree. Since they have agreed, I have no reason in the world to believe they are inaccurate.
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OK, maybe you can handle this one: the unknowns outside of the observed population can invalidate the results.
There is no outside of the observed population. You come into a store, or go online and buy a disc. This is registered as a sale and reported to data collectors weekly. You have to buy a disc whether online or in store for a sale to register, so there are no unknowns outside the observed population. Either your a customer, or you are not. Please do not attempt to make this more difficult than it really is so you can "appear" smart. Nobody is fooled, and your not that smart.
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I know that last one is a shocker - I knew you wouldn't have the stomach for it, although you really could have tossed your cookies to the side instead of all owver yourself. Hey, but at least you can tell your insider friends that you were schooled in Stats 101 by none other than Ferris Bueller. Wana "Save Ferris" T-shirt?
You are no Ferris Bueller, he is just a character in a movie. Unless you are just a character in a movie. The rest of this is child like banter, and if you are a adult, there should be no room for this kind of banter in a debate. Save that stuff for you buddy Pixelthis. You guys seem to enjoy playing in the sandbox together.
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Spoken like a true black and white egghead. The math may be perfect, but you seem to forget the most basic tenet of statistics: they are estimates.
Since when is a sale an estimate? Either it happens, or it doesn't right? Oh, in your world they say "I think they bought a disc" after they plunk down the money and walk away with the disc.
Another personal insult, Nighflier, you are pretty bankrupt. I guess if I said to you that you have no class, you would think there is no school today.
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I didn't dismiss them. I left them standing right where you left them. They're still there. I even said that I can't argue against them - or let me be more specific - I can't argue against the math. What I said is that I don't accept them as the whole picture - I'm pretty sure I said that multiple times. The fact is you cannot say that they are, it's mathematically illogical. You also cannot account for outside factors.
You are making this more difficult than it is, and people usually do that when they don't know what they are talking about.
You go into a store and purchase a bluray player. That is one sale of a bluray player. That one sale is registered along with others from different stores, and at the end of the week it is reported to NDP as a sale for that week. Thousands do this weekly which turns into a monthly sales report. Its that easy. This is a closed loop system, so there are no outside factor to contaminate a sale, unless the computer system is hacked. Since I have heard of no hacks(and neither have you apparently) then there are no outside factor to include here. Its the same with software sales. The whole picture is the accumulation of all sales figures from all retailers within the reporting system for that month. Its nothing more than this, and any attempt to make it more than this just muddles the facts.
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Now let's be clear: I said that because they have a degree of error, because they are collected by entities with vested interests, and because of the uncertainty of outside factors, they are not the complete picture of what is happening with this format war.
I guess I should not assume that you learn from your mistakes. First mistake(and I have stated this before) In this case the people that collect the data are not vested interests. The BDA and the HD DVD PG are vested interests, not NDP, and not Video Business. NDP collect data on behalf of many different industries inclusing broadcast and movies, electronics, and the beat goes on. This why I have said to you that you don't understand the system, and that is why you tend to complicate things(I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here). Since sales figures are all I quoted(not stats as you advance consistantly), there is no degree of uncertainty. Its either a sale, or its not. People are either buying players and software(which would be a sale) or they are not(which puts them outside the sales loop).
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These are not conspiracy theories, muddle, or unknowns. They are facts (I know how you like facts). If you want, I can rephrase that in reference to the BR / HDDVD format war:
Unless you can directly refute sales figures with facts, then it is just conpiracy theories, muddle and unknowns.
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Because your insider industry information has a degree of error (check you freshman math classes), because they are collected by parties with vested interests (the industry insiders and apparently, your wallet), and because of the uncertainty of outside factors (VOD, manufacturing shortages, politics, economics, etc.), the statistics you have presented on BR and HDDVD do not represent the complete picture.
You just don't have a clue, and that is the problem. What does my wallet have to do with sales figures compiled by NDP? The studio don't collect data, NDP does.
What does a sale of a player or software have to do with VOD? Its a sale.
What does manufacturing shortages have to do with Sales? We are not talking about manufacturing on demand, we are talking about sales off of shelves. The product has already been manufactured!!!!!
What does politics have to do with sales of a player or disc?
How does economic play a role in a system where a person has already purchased a product?
This is what I mean by muddle. Nothing you mention has anything to do with sales of a product already manufactured and on shelves. It just mud in clean water.
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Yes, they are paid for. That is one of my points right?
Do you really think a company is going to pay hundreds of dollars for inaccurate figures? No way in hell Nightflyer, you are just introducing FUD.
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Apparently they know it. The fine print on everything they publish states quite plainly that their conclusions are "estimates." It is you and other yahoos cheering on their chosen format who make them more than they are. Face it, you have a vested interest in making that 2-1 margin larger. Are you really that angry at Toshiba, or just a little hot under the collar?
Do you subscribe to NDP? I do. I do not see that fine print anywhere. I am looking at my last weeks copy. It does not say their figures are estimates at all. Why are you lying like this???
Do I own Sony? Disney? Fox? No. So can you explain just what vested interest I have? Who said I am angry? I don't like the performance of their player, and the customer service stunk. Am I angry about that? Don't think so. I am neither angy at toshiba or hot under the collar. I am indifferent with Toshiba, just like I am with you. No anger involved. Do you want to try and guess my emotions again? Or are you tired of failing to guess correctly time and time again.
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It pertains to statistics. Isn't that what we are talking about? Sales figures, rental figures, etc. Or are you referring to the super "inside" information that only your ears are privy to, and us lesser peons can only hope to understand from your vaulted pedantry?
Your envious, how quaint..... It doesn't pertain to THESE figures we are discussing, so it is therefore irrelevant.
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Yeah, we know, your precious stats.
Apparently you don't.
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My appologies your highness. I am sorry to have troubled your precious mind with statistics. Are you sure you're not related to our president? 'Cause you two sure have a disdain for anything outside of your own realities. It may be genetic. Are your parents like that too? Hmmm that would explain a lot.
Your apology is accepted. Well since our president is caucasion, and I am not, I doubt we are related. Are you related to a donkey?
It is very low to bring my parents into this. Very classless act amoung many. I hope you are happy now.
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Well how would you know since you have not had the time in your busy shmoozing schedule to read them? Oh, you perused them? Well then I will presume that we can continue the discussion.
I think you already stated that the books have no relevance to this argument, and that they don't discuss HD DVD or bluray specifically. That is how I know.
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So let's see if I can tie this all together for you so that it addresses the BR/HDVD format war to your satisfaction: If statistics are estimates, and your whole argument that BR is winning the war is based on them, then your conclusion is also an estimate. It is not the complete picture. The complete picture is that we don't know who will win, we don't know if either will win, and we don't know what else will win. I'm hedging my best on VOD, but I'm not going to say it's a definite.
Still wrong.
A sale is not an estimate, it is a fact. It already happened. You cannot estimate a sale, either it happened, or it didn't. If best buy reports they sold 10 players, they are not estimating, they are stating a point of fact. If one side is selling more players than the other side, then they are winning in sales. If there is a perceived war going on, and one side is doing better than the other, they are winning the war. I never stated that Bluray already won, I stated that they are winning, and winning consistantly on a weekly business since the beginning of the year. That is a fact, and not an estimate. I cannot predict the future, but I can look at infrastructure, support, sales figures year to date, history and various other things for the potential sign of victory. Analyst do it every day. VOD has never been a real competitor to disc based movies. It didn't even make a dent into the sales of DVD's, and it has been around for at least 5-7 years in my area. Where VOD has made SOME in roads is in rentals. But not HD rentals since VOD cannot compete in that area.
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Sounds a little doublespeak-ish to me, but I'll see if I can address that. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there will be no new numbers, stats, or figures forthcoming from me. So if your whole strategy was to refute them, you should probably rethink your plan of attack. My argument is that your numbers are questionable.
Prove it. If you can't, then give it a rest. Prove it, I challenge you to do so. If they are questionable, then prove that they are. Otherwise you are making a false claim, or just telling a lie.
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I never set out to trump your figures. I clearly stated that. I am merely questioning their complete validity. If that doesn't grab your attention, then what will?
If you are questioning the validity of the numbers I present, then invalidate it with facts, not just your mouth and gut.
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No Mr. Peabody specifically asked for new and other info related to a statistic of 67% in favor of BR sales. News and info does not have to be just statistics. If a large shipment of BR players from China was to sink in the pacific, that would also be relevant. You're the one who just wants to talk about specific statistics (and your insider info).
If a large shipment of BR player from China sank into the pacific, that would have no bearing whatsoever to a sale of a player already on the shelf. My insider information has nothing to do with sales figures for both formats. That is very public information. My insider information tells me about a studio's future plans regarding the HD formats, information not openly discussed on forums or in the media. Insider information is things like
Disc yield rates for both mediums
Technical information regarding upcoming releases that nobody knows about.
Firmware upgrades that haven't happened yet.
Technical background on bluray players in development
What chips will be used in future players
What future development will come out of the BDA
What studios are thinking about changing sides(I knew about Paramount a few days before the announcement was made public)
I know all the details of Paramounts contract with the HD DVD PG
That is insider information. Sales figures for each format are posted at Bluray.com every friday. That is not insider information. LOL
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I think you misunderstand "pre-screen." What I was trying to say is that you establish before hand what can be considered relevant and then build your argument within only those parameters that you approve of. Anything that anyone brings up that does not fit your boundaries is dismissed outright as irrelevant. How exactly is that not narrow?
I didn't establish anything, the original poster did. He did it by mention the BDA, bluray outselling HD DVD, Acer joining the BDA, Hitachi introducing a new camcorder, and Paramounts defection not hurting bluray.
Those are the parimeters, not some book advancing the arguement that statistics can be used to deceive. I did see the OP mention that anywhere in his post, did you? He didn't even question the sales figures, he just stated them. I stayed within the boundaries of what the OP mentions in his first post, you have not.
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Your argument is about statistics. I questioned statistics. I didn't dismiss them like you do, I just suggested that they were not the complete picture.
Did I dismiss statistics? Seems now you are contradicting yourself.
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So questioning statistics, when you present statistics is irrelevant? Boy, you sure know how to narrow a topic down to your own needs. Of course, the narrower you get, the less of the whole picture we get to see.
I presented sales figures, not statistics. Funny how you cannot seemed to get the two straight.
Statistic:A statistic is a function of one or more random variables that does not depend upon any unknown parameter.
Does that sound like a sales figure to you?? A sales figure is just the opposite.
It is a known value(the product) with no variables(either it happens or it doesn't), and it has a known parameter(you paid for it already)
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I'm sorry, is that calm and composed?
Its called emphasis, not anger. You do not have the power to anger me. I can let you, but you don't have it by proxy
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Boy, I hope I don't have to read what happens when you do get upset. I also don't think I need to "see" (huh?) you over the internet to get the idea that you are getting out of control. Well if this is normal, then I must have misread your state of mind.
You cannot read when I get upset, you cannot read emotions. (rolls eyes)
And yes you do have to see me to know that I am getting out of control. If you don't see my actions and reactions, then you are only guessing that I am out of control. Since there is not reliability in a guess, most times you are wrong, as in this case. So yes, you did misread my state of mind. And as long as you don't know me personally, you will continue to misread my state of mind.
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Well now that I think of it, it certainly doesn't buy you respect.
Nope
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And what's with this need to always buy something?
We are discussing sales aren't we?
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Is this something that is for sale here on AR? With your deep pockets that gives you an unfair advantage, doesn't it?
Don't you look on the opening page of this forum. There appears to be alot of things for sale on AR, especially advertising space.
Wow, who are you, the FBI. You can read emotions over the web, you can not know a person name, what he does for a living, and spontaneously guess that he has deep pockets. You should open a mind reading school. You'll make tons of nothing from that venture.
Never said anything of the sort, you're twisting my words around to mold them to your argument. Hell no to that, man. I didn't ask you to say that I'm right. Even if I asked you to say that you were wrong about the format war (and I'm not doing that either), that wouldn't necessarily imply that I was right (simple logic, man, just follow along). I asked you to broaden your horizons to the possibility that there is something beyond your statistics.[/quote]
Can you tell me just what is beyond a sale of a player? The sale of a disc? Not a damn thing. A sale is a closed loop transaction. It has a beginning and an end. You bring the player to the counter, pay your money, and walk out of the store. There is nothing beyond that.
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If you would just see outside of your created reality, you'd see that there's a whole world of interesting alternatives out here: VOD could eclipse both, HDDVD could win, neither would replace DVD, the format war could go on for years, the possibilities are endless, really.
If I created my reality, you wouldn't be in it. VOD can eclispe both, but not in the two years that you are predicting. And then it may never. HD DVD could win, but nobody outside the HD DVD fanboy believes that it will. The format war will not go on for years, that I can guarantee. The studio will not allow it, and if this war continues, you are going to find that the studios will pick a side. They did with DIVX vs DVD. They did it with Beta vs VHS. The retailers are already picking a side. Target is only carrying Bluray players in its stores. Walmart is not carrying the $199 Ventura player in their stores. Blockbuster is only renting bluray's in their stores. Best buy has more bluray encaps in their stores, more bluray demo's in their stores, and the beat goes on.
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Since to the best of my knowledge no one has ever been able to prove the great almighty Sir T. wrong, I seriously doubt that.
Then you must not have very good knowledge because Richard Greene used to prove me wrong all the time. Shows just how much you know.
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There you go again dictating the boundaries. What you think this forum is, isn't what other may think it is. It is not entertainment before everything else. I'd like to think that that would be secondary or even lower on the list. I know that the newbies who come here looking for help (before you make them feel infinitesimally small), see the entertainment value quite a bit further down the list. No wonder you have no respect for other people's opinions, this is just entertainment to you. Talk about a god-complex.
And I thought your comments couldn't be anymore infantile. How can you translate what this site means to me into a god-complex. I am not a newbie, I am not on this website looking for information on how to put a hometheater together. This is entertainment to me, this is where I talk to, and exchange information with friends that I cannot see. You sitting in judgement of me is more god-complex than me calling this website entertainment.
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Huh? I was talking about the colors red, white and blue and what they stand for. You obviously don't know much about allegory or symbolism either. And nobody wants to see you naked, man. Keep those pics off the AR gallery.
How cryptic of you. Allegory and symbolism have nothing to do with HD DVD or bluray. This is part of the problem communicating with you, too much allegory and symbolism, and not enough fact to support an opinion.
Who says you would see me naked? I sure didn't, and never made mention of putting anything in the AR gallery. Do you own this site? No, so you cannot tell me were to locate any pictures should I choose to submit any. Know your place, and your place is not leadership on this site.
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Well thank you for the compliments, I didn't think you had it in you. But I think that when you come to see the world outside of your own boundaries, you'll see that I was pretty accurate here too.
How can you be accurate, you have presented nothing but FUD. You have provided nothing but your opinion, and I take that for what its worth, nothing. Facts are worth something, and you have presented none.
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Hey, buddy, I'm repeating your inconsistencies, because you don't seem to read them. You're the one who narrows Mr. Peabody's request for news and info to just statistics, and then only those statistics from your "inside" sources. You are the one who narrowed the boundaries.
And you don't read your as well. He requested news and info on HD DVD and Bluray, not some book that talks about manipulating data. That is very clear in his first post. You bought all of the other garbarge into this thread, not me.
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I never said that any of the links and books I presented where specifically about BR & HDDVD. I said they are about statistics. And since your whole argument is about the supposed irrefutable completeness of statistics, I think that makes them pretty relevant. The fact is, and this is probably why you are so upset, that the questioning of statistics shakes up your whole world view. If statistics are questioned you have nothing solid to stand on and that is a very uncomfortable position for you to be in. It's uncertain, inexact, and ambiguous. Well welcome to the universe, man.
If the book and links are not specifically about bluray and HD DVD, then they don't belong in this discussion. Mr Peabody is not questioning the sales figures, he stated them. I am not talking about statistics, I am speaking of sales figures as it relates to HD DVD and Bluray. You book doesn't not address the accuracy of current HD DVD and bluray player and software sales, and you have admitted it yourself. You have no figures to dispute what I have posted from public sources, no proof that those figures have been manipulated by NDP, and no proof that figure inconsistancy are even in play here. Yet with no evidence of any manipulation, you introduce manipulation as a counter to what I stated. What you are doing is a stretch without any evidence that any wrong doing is actually occuring. Just because you mention it, does not make it so.
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You dismiss everything outside of your precious statistics as irrelevant. That is stifling dissent. You say it has no place on this thread. That is stifling dissent. You won't even discuss it. That is stifling dissent. If my evidence is not good enough for your lofty boundaries, how can I present my case? You are stifling dissent.
This is just silly. I am not stopping you from making your false claims. I have not jailed you for being off topic. I have not bound your hands so you cannot type. I am not saying your evidence is not good enough, I am saying it is not relevant until you can prove that the sales figures presented by NDP are tainting and inaccurate. When you can prove this, then your book becomes VERY relevant to this topic. Outside of the proof, the book has not relevance to this topic.
You cannot convict a robber until he steals. You certainly cannot convict him because you think he will steal because a book says he is a demographic that has been known to steal. You have to have evidence that he actually stole something.
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Just FYI, that is a position of intellectual weakness. That's from another author you've probably never heard of: Hana Arendt. She's pretty big, though, look it up.
So you accusing me of intellectual weakness now. I can accuse you of intellectual bankrupcy as well. You have certainly shown that here.
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Oh, so now you want to talk psychology? You're way out of your league, here. Statistics are pretty shaky in the field of psychology. I'd run back to your own sandbox before someone gives you a sand wedgie.
I gave up kid speak when I grew up. Can you let it go so we can have an adult conversation now. I have no desire to talk pshychology, that is not my field of expertise, and obviously not yours either.
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I presented no conspiracy theory books. I assure you the books I presented are well researched by academics, journalists, doctors, etc. And they are reviewed by peers. Anyhow, how would you know? You haven't read them.
Unfortunately the research didn't include questioning sales figures of HD DVD and bluray from NDP. I have no interesting in reading them until you can effective tie the subject matter directly into this. Since the book is not about HD DVD and bluray sales figures as presented by NDP(and you admit it), then it is not applicable to this conversation in any way. You have not proven that NDP is reporting inaccurate figures, so the book has to practical application to this arguement.
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You're really gona stand by that? Weren't you saying that you base your whole argument on statistics? Or are you gona do a quick reversal and tell us it's also from your "inside" sources, the ones that we can't corroborate? Well which is it?
I have never stated that I have built my arguement on sales figures. My arguement is based on many different things. I have stated this over and over again. And you say I can't read?
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No need to apologize, I'm not wrong. The very fact that you put "Neilsen" and "business" in the same breath is troubling, don't you think? It's bought and paid for, I think we've established that.
No I don't think. Are you saying that every business that exist is crooked and cannot be trusted? So why can't nielsons as a business be trusted if it has not been proven they did anything wrong. That is just more paranoia. So based on what you have advanced here, nobody should buy anything from anyone, no one should go to work, everyone should live on the streets because all business that employ, sell, collect data, and service people are all evil. That is paranoia 101
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Are you hearing what you are saying? You are telling me that these figures with billions at stake are from the very industry that stands to benefit, right? How does that not give you the willies that this is perhaps not accurate? It means a whole lot that I don't trust them and you shouldn't either, at least not completely and unequivocally as you apparently do.
Once again, you do not know the process. NDP is not in the same business as Sony and Disney. Got that? NDP is not in the same business as Samsung or Panasonic. So NDP stands to gain nothing from reporting the data to these guys except a check. If there information has been proven incorrect, then they get no check. Sony does not collect data, they make movies and consumer electronics. Samsung does not collect data, they make consumer electronics. When NDP sales figures are proven to be inaccurate, then their data will be discarded.
I never said I unequivicolly trusted anything. I never said it never. I said until NDP data is proven unreliable I trust it. This is not blind trust, this is conditional trust which is quite different than unequivocally trusting.
[quoteI've managed my own business for some time, so again, don't presume you know that much about me. I can tell you that statistics are useful, sure, but almost never representative of the whole picture. People shouldn't be lemmings to "official" information - it's what gets us into wars, makes us believe that Fox is news, that there will be plenty of oil forever, that China will always provide us with cheap low & mid-fi, and that BR has won this format war.[/quote]
A sales figure is representative of a sale(I never used the words statistics you did). If your business is retail, and you cannot use sales figures to gage the health of your business, you are sunk. Just what do you use then?
Now you are off on another tangent. News organization(as opposed to data collectors) have never been the bastion of truth, just perspective and opinion. That is not the same as collecting a sales figure and reporting it. You can twist news, but you cannot twist the simple sale of a player or DVD. Either it happened, or it didn't. It doesn't matter if you mis-represent who bought the player, all you are interested in is the sale. That is not what news does. Apples and pears here.
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I never set out to completely dismiss your sources. I only said they were not complete.
And I say that is your opinion, and not the truth. You haven't proven they're incomplete, you have advance theories on why you THINK they are not complete. There is a difference.
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And the broader your sources, the more chance for variance - it's just mathematical probability.
So based on this comment, there isn't a whole lot of variances. You buy a player, and sale is posted. The sale is posted, and that data is collected. So far in this process there isn't a whole lot of room for variances.
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You seem bent on the idea that I want to invalidate everything you present. So who's paranoid, now? I'm not out to get you. Frankly I could care a flying flaming fairy fart less about you, your insider information, and your seniority on AR. You are completely irrelevant to my point about statistics. You just want to carry the torch for such a narrow focussed argument that you think it makes the whole case. It doesn't. Get over yourself.
You don't seem to understand....I don't care if you invalidate everything I have presented. It has no bearing on anything, and doesn't change anything.
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Let me quote you verbatim. You said: "No one has proclaimed a winner here. NO ONE." Except that Pixel did. And to be frank, your own flag waiving is pretty transparent too.
Hmmmm..Pixel is not Sir T, Sir T not pixel. Sir T cannot speak for Pixel, Pixel cannot speak for Sir T. When I speak of no one, I am speaking of me, myself, and I. I cannot speak for Pixel, and I cannot be responsible for what he says.
I have not been secretive at all about who I think will when, but that a long way from confirming that someone already has.
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That's just the problem. You're within the industry.
So just because a Doctor works in the health industry, his comments on the industry are dismissed because he is on the inside? That's pretty dumb. So he is to trust an accountant to tell him about the health industry becuase the accountant isn't an insider. Okay, that good, but no cigar.
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I'm not building my argument on just unknowns (you should really get yourself some glasses and read what I actually wrote). I said that the unknowns may be significant, perhaps overwhelming.
Maybe is not "is"or "are". Until you can make maybe is or are, then its significance comes into question. Your maybe is designed to create FUD in this case, since your maybe has not been proven to be "so"
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I also said that statistics were inherently questionable and that you have an interest. Since you're obviously making a hansome profit from your pontification, I hardly think that is up for debate.
Can you explain my interest, and how I am making a profit from mentioning the fact that bluray is outselling HD DVD? I don't own a studio, or a CE manufacturing plant. I don't own stock in entertainment companies, or CE electronic companies. So just where is the handsome profit your purport I am making? More stupid, unverified, unsubstantiated claims with no proof of support. Geeze..........
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Well it's good for you I'm not a debate coach. Or am I? Wait a minute, weren't you trying to tell me a thing or two about computers? Downloads? The internet? Maybe I invented the Internet? You don't know. That's an unknown that may just be relevant here, heck it could even be overwhelmingly more important than the knowns. Don't even try to throw sand in my sandbox - you will get hurt.
This comment is good for a laugh and nothing more. Thanks for the chuckle.
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What is uncomfortable to me is someone who is so rigidly stuck on their own facts, won't admit that they may be wrong, and wants to stifle all dissent. We've met your types before throughout history and it's never been a pleasant outcome. Did you fail history in school too?
If my fact are wrong, prove it. You still have not proven that I stifle dissent, you are just saying it and hope it sticks. You don't know what my type is because you don't know me. See this is what I mean, if you cannot debate the subject matter, you attack the person personally. This conversation is not about me, it is about you proving your claims that HD DVD and Bluray sales figures are wrong, and because of that make my opinions invalid.
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It's not like there's any of your precious money on the line. We're only wagering on who will admit to being wrong. You threw down the gauntlet, I picked it up. What? Is that too far outside of your boundaries?
I don't wager on fools bets. So move on.
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Well, what media would you consider within your boundaries? A/V mags? Newspapers? Books? White papers? The Wall Street Journal? What are you willing to exclude to arrive at your desired conclusions? Sounds to me like you are obsessed with defining the boundaries of this argument. Personally, I would feel more comfortable with sources from a broader perspective, you know, to get the whole picture. Oh, that's right you don't want the whole picture. Just your own narrow sandbox will do.
All you have to do is prove that sales figures presented by NDP are not correct. That is the crust of your arguement, and what I am asking you to prove.
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I will consider all reasonable sources, and I think Mr. Peabody and most others here will too. Even if it's on a blog, it will have relevance if viewed in the context of the whole picture. If the scope is too narrow, then it is inevitable that something just slightly larger will supplant it. But that's where you want to define it. It's moronic, I know, but I can't seem to make that clear enough.
This is not about what I have stated, it is about you proving that sales figures from NDP are wrong. You can make this anything you want, but in the end, you make a claim, you prove that claim.
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You really can't read can you?
I can read when the point is clear and not overly cryptic or muddy. You are not very good at clarity.
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I said that people think about war in black and white. It's what gets them to go along with it. The complexity of this war, the history, the culture, the languages, the politics are infinitely more complex and gray. And what you are desperately trying to address is just the hard numbers, the black and white, if you will, without taking into account that the real issue is the people's attitudes in choosing one format over an other, the vagaries of the technology, and the market trends that shape this war, the vague, the unknowns, and the gray.
Since we are talking about hard numbers(which are sales figures) then it is just black and white. You are trying to make it more complex by bringing in everything including the kitchen sink to muddy the issues.
Peoples attitudes have nothing to do with a point of sale. They are either going to pick bluray or HD DVD for the own reasons. There is nothing vague about the technology. If somebody want to learn about it, it is all over the internet
I simply stated that sales figures have been consistantly in bluray favor since the beginning of the year. I simply stated that bluray standalone players are currently outselling HD DVD standalones. I made no market prediction of victory, I just stated a point of fact. You have turned this into something completely different.
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Now I think I'm beginning to undertsand why you are coming off so myopic about this format war. You see war (Iraq or format) as confusing and complex so you want to slap some numbers on it to make sense of it. You have a type-A obsession to define, reduce, categorize, enumerate, compartmentalize, and quantify it. Well, the reality is that your quest is a fantasy. No amount of statistical analysis is going to get you the answers you want - it can never be the whole picture with just mathematical parameters.
Still wrong, do you want to try again. How you can make statement without proof just amazes me. You have me all defined, reduced, catagorized, lock up, and smooth out, and you don't even know anything about me. You continue to march off topic. We are talking HD DVD and bluray, your are talking about me AGAIN!!! LOL Stay on topic.
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Then why not back up what you're claiming? Or are you afraid that it will prove to be the first time ever that you will have to admit to being wrong? Either put up or shut up.
You have yet to bring one piece of evidence that NDP sales figures are wrong yet you are asking me to back up what I have said. You have got to be joking
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Here you go again with the money. Don't your industry buddies pay you enough to stop worrying about it? For the umptieth time, there's no money involved in this wager. Either put up or shut up. Or as my grandfather used to say, either sh*t or get off the pot.
We have already address this. Who cares what your grandfather used to say, its not relevant to the topic at hand.
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So let me get this straight. Because I don't have access to your "inside" sources, I need to shut up?
No, you need to shut up because you have presented no evidence to prove your point. You are just rambling now.
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Then everyone here should just shut up, right? Maybe if all of AR were filled with your 1900+ posts only, the world would be a better place? Now how would that be useful? It would be narrow, to be sure, it would make you happy, I'm sure too, but how would that be of any use to those who do not see this forum as just "entertainment"?
Bluray, HD DVD, where are you in this?
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No I have a hard time staying on the topic that you have defined and narrowed down from what Mr. Peabody requested. That's a bit different from your undertsanding of where we got started.
Everything I have posted in this thread has been about HD DVD and Bluray. Everything you have posted in this thread has been about books and links that have no relevancy to HD DVD or Bluray. Mr Peabody requested addtional information regarding HD DVD and Bluray, not a book on the manipulation of statistics. Let's not get this twisted.
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I presented no conspiracy theories. I presented well researched and peer-reviewed books. Oh, I'm sorry is that beyond the scope of where you want to keep it? Who made you the decider? Oh, I know, you decided that yourself. Are you absolutely sure you're not related to Bush? Maybe just dipping your nose into the snuff box too much?
Those book don't even mention one word about HD DVD and Bluray, you even admitted that yourself. It really doesn't matter that they are well researched and peer reviewed, they are not about HD DVD and Bluray which the OP specifically mentions desiring information on. So now who has been in the snuff too much?
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Well that was a non-productive way for me to spend the late morning. You can bring a mule to water...
But much like yourself they are too stupid to drink.
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All kidding aside, you need to be willing to talk about the facts I have presented:
- Statistics are estimates
- Statistics are biased towards the entity collecting the data
- Statistics do not address the unknowns
We can argue forever, and I won't shy away from it, but if you can't look beyond what you have defined as the parameters of this discussion, then I really have nothing to discuss with you. My simple point is that statistics and inside information do not present a complete picture. I believe that is why Mr. Peabody started this thread. Does 67% in favor of Blu-Ray make this a format war a done deal? My answer is that it doesn't.
Statistics were mentioned by you, sales figures were mention by me.
Not all statistics are collected by biased parties
Unknowns cannot be factored into sales figures because sales are knowns.
My Peabody set the parimeters, I stayed within them, you did not.
I never said that a Bluray sales lead equal anything but a sales lead. I still do not know where I stated that Bluray had already won this war. However since you are the expert at making things up, you have to show me were I stated this war was over.
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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
Right after your first post on the Dracula movie, Sir T posted "I agree", referring to the assumption that many made, the movie was a poor transfer from DSD. If he was really involved with Blu-ray.com, Terrence, being what he is, would have jumped at the chance to set things straight right then, and took another opportunity to boast about his supposed affiliation with the biz. But he didn't, because he really had no idea, so he Googled around, and then posted a few lines from the article that apparently didn't get highlighted when I copied it. Then put on his pose to try to save face. If it hasn't been deleted, his stumble is right on this thread. I for one have always doubted Sir T's claims to be in the biz. I believe he is a very insecure person who feels he has to build himself up in order to be accepted and try to be the big fish in a small pond. I have to give him credit I've never seen anyone twist peoples statements around to try to make them say something that was not originally intended. He missed his calling, he should be in politics.
Wow Mr Peabody, that's harsh. Well its shouldn't take long to make a lie out of you.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=18622
Look at what is says next to my name. Sound Insider right? So If I am not over at Bluray.com providing inside information(that I am allowed to speak about) why would I have that next to my name. Do you see it next to anyone elses? No, the moderators give it to you when the ask you to be a insider.
Since I am an insider, I talk to other insiders. Check out Paidgeek, Penton man, Maxpower and other on that website. They are all insiders. We talk
All of the information I posted came directly from Paidgeek in a private message, and then the information was posted in the insider thread. No need for google, and no need to copy your stuff. And there is no need to lie about me, or try and disparage my name. If I didn't work in the business, then I could not get a Sound Insider next to my name. The title Insider only goes to those that work at a studio, and since I work at a studio as an audio engineer, hence Sound Insider.
Don't you know how to forget past disagreements? I have moved on from ours, grow up and do the same.
I do not work for Sony, so why would you think its my duty to explain problems with Dracula?
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Attn: Sir TtT
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Wow Mr Peabody, that's harsh. Well its shouldn't take long to make a lie out of you.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=18622
Look at what is says next to my name. Sound Insider right? So If I am not over at Bluray.com providing inside information(that I am allowed to speak about) why would I have that next to my name. Do you see it next to anyone elses? No, the moderators give it to you when the ask you to be a insider.
Since I am an insider, I talk to other insiders. Check out Paidgeek, Penton man, Maxpower and other on that website. They are all insiders. We talk
All of the information I posted came directly from Paidgeek in a private message, and then the information was posted in the insider thread. No need for google, and no need to copy your stuff. And there is no need to lie about me, or try and disparage my name. If I didn't work in the business, then I could not get a Sound Insider next to my name. The title Insider only goes to those that work at a studio, and since I work at a studio as an audio engineer, hence Sound Insider.
Don't you know how to forget past disagreements? I have moved on from ours, grow up and do the same.
I do not work for Sony, so why would you think its my duty to explain problems with Dracula?
Dude, get a life. It took you like 3 hours to dissect and respond to Nightfliers post. Don't you have anything better to do? It's obvious that neither one of you are going to give in on the dispute, but save us from having to read your novels back and forth!
I am beginning to think that Sir T, despite his long-standing history at this site has evolved into some type of advanced supertroll. He's a bit more evasive than your typical troll, but I am using my Troll-O-Meter and I am picking up some very strong signals within this thread from his direction. It would seem that he uses his cloaking device (read lengthy ramblings compiled from various sources that do in fact make some sense). This cloaking device enables him to be reputable to most people and harmless as well, but at the same time he throws out these hard opinions to which he stands by AND like any ordinary troll, becomes highly defensive when questioned, to which he uses his other advanced troll abilities, which is another attribute of these supertrolls, he has the ability to do certainly psychology and uses word games in order to twist around and tear apart everything that is said and then proceeds to take it out of context, thus making or attempting to make the other person sound less educated and or inferior.
Now let me be clear here...I don't doubt that you are an insider and have connections, or even that you are a "specialist" on this topic, but even "specialists" can be wrong, or using the doctor analogy...it's like this....
Let's say you were a Heart Doctor (a specialist in that field) and you were very good at what you did. Now, do you make mistakes? Maybe. Who is to say? Well, other people within that profession would have first hand knowledge as to whether or not you made a mistake. However, that doesn't mean that someone else could have pointed out your mistake as well, and I am not saying that you made a mistake on this thread or that the information that you provided is 100% false or inaccurate, I am simply making a point on being right, being wrong, and just an opinion. You know it takes a strong person to admit when they are wrong or that they 'could' be wrong. Sometimes there is no way of knowing. Specialists, scientists, doctors, lawyers, anyone can make mistakes, no-one is perfect and just because you might be an authority on a subject doesn't discount other peoples feelings, beliefs, and opinions on that subject, and sometimes....believe it or not....they might be right too.
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