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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
I've always wanted to live in Canada, Ground Beef are you sure you wouldn't mind my family living in your back yard? Hope there's enough room for me to put my truck up on blocks when I need to. You all don't have anything against dogs do you? How many bedrooms that thing got?
No, not at all. However, I must warn you that I live about 1500 miles from the Canadian border. And the kids play house is about 25' sqr. No running water or utilites. Dogs are fine as long as they only crap in your section of the yard.
It's got 1 room. More like an "efficiency".
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Originally Posted by nightflier
Terrence, my little green knight, we can debate point for point forever it seems (and I have a response to everyone of your points, don't worry, but I'm trying to spare others the misery of having to read it all). So let's try to focus on what really seem to get your feather twisted. First an example:
If you can debate me point by point, do it. Its much too late to talk about sparing anyone, this thread is 11 pages long, and our debate has pretty much dominated it.
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Politics - You contend that political events or large catastrophes have no impact on the movie-consuming public. I say they do. So my position is that it could be anywhere in the vast spectrum of having just a tiny fraction of an impact to having a considerable impact. Yours is that they don't. Nope. Nada. Nay. Niet. Now we don't need to be an economists or statisticians to realize that your absolute position is infinitely less likely. As a matter of fact it is unsupportable. It is logically a very weak position to take.
Well, in your vast lack of understanding, I didn't say that a major event wouldn't have NO impact. My point is that major events that we have seen in history have had little to no effect, not just plain zero. What little impact that has occured has certainly has not risen to the level that someone could base this as a talking point in a debate. That would be majoring in minors.
You have had about 10 pages to cite me an example of major events having a critical enough impact to become a major talking point within a debate.
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So let's consider what we know about political events. We all know from numerous sources that the buying public was not the same after Sept 11th. That's not disputed. While they did continue to purchase non-durable goods and services, such as food, cosmetics, and "entertainment" in the form of movie rentals, CDs and DVDs; what they did not purchase as much was new technologies such as cars, stocks, and for our example, new HT technologies. This was expected by economists because many people were in what's referred to as "collective shock." The public needed diversions from the horrors of that reality, so they spent their money on diversionary products but they did not buy into products that implied some kind of risk. This is basic economic theory. Sales for durable products did eventually pick up again, and the economy eventually rebounded. Historically, this is pretty much how the buying public has reacted to significant world events for some time.
Post 9/11 saw DVD sales and rentals jump considerably as people travelled less. Since HD DVD and Bluray were not in the consumer market, it would be difficult to say the same would have happened. But if we use the DVD format as an example, then it is likely sales would jump rather than recede. High ticket items such as cars, vacations, houses are not in the same league as a HD DVD player or a Bluray player for that matter. So apply the same logic to of these sale items to it is a mistake from the start.
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In light of our argument over this format war, this allows you to state that various formats did not die off. I never said they would, but your needle seems stuck on trying to demonstrate that I did. What I said is that these events had an impact. That's all. Nothing more. And I seriously doubt there are any economists who will disagree with me on that. We can debate about the degree to which the impact affected sales, but we both would be arguing about estimates and stats (and you don't like that). The fact is that all your counterpoints to the case that significant world events have an economic impact, are all assumptions, guesses and estimates. You can't say for sure that they haven't because it's not possible to include all factors in your dataset.
Okay, not it appears that you are back off a bit, trying to give yourself some wiggle room. If you advance a point in a debate, and this is one of your main points, it has got to rise above little impact. Now trying to say that world events could have anywhere from a small impact, to a large impact leaves you a ton of room here. How do you measure a small impact if it is far smaller than other things going on? It may not even be measureable(a blip) which makes it not even worthy of a mention. If you are going to mention a scenario, it has to be significant enough to produce an effect, or it is not worth mentioning. Leaving your self considerable wiggle room mean that your arguement is either weak and full of fluff, or you do not know enough about what you're debating.
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I then continued with the argument that even if the effect was small, it would be significant during this holiday season. That argument is important, but that's not what we are addressing in this post. So let's get back to your rigid absolutism.
If the event was small, how do you know it would be significant during the holiday season. What in past CE history could you base this on. They had a world wide recession during the christmas season in 1982. Guess what, VHS player and software sales didn't seem to know it was happening. JVC went from selling 4 billion dollars worth of players at the beginning of 1982 to over 6 billion at the end of 1983 while the recession raged on. What did suffer was the Laserdisc, but nobody can tie its problems to the recession itself. It was already an overpriced product in a sea of lower priced VHS players, and it couldn't record.
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It is really the crux of the problem as to why we can't meet half-way. You can't accept any argument that has uncertainties. Your obsession with controlling the parameters of every discussion is not only completely un-academic, but also completely unrealistic. Nature is not exact. Such absolutes only exist in a vacuum. You cannot control all aspects of an observed pool under study. No matter how many facts, figures, ratios, and official statistics you present, they are all estimates. Your inability to accept that or to see outside of that reality by itself diminishes any argument you put forth.
If you go back a couple of pages, I admit that certaintes do exist, and have always existed. However you have never been able to tie those uncertainties to anything in the history of CE product releases. When you can, then you have made your point. What you desire is a open point discussion so muddy with scenarios and theories, that one cannot make out truth from theory, scenarios from realities, and history from possiblities. What I would like to see is your theories that have actually played out in history, or you have no ground to stand on.
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So you criticize my argument because I don't have exact facts and figures, but the reality is I don't need them. The recent upsurge in HDDVD sales, whatever it's true measure, is a perfect example of your inability to control all the parameters.
A recent upsurge is not a trend. Bluray players have also had upsurges. And the reality is, if Toshiba cannot outsell the PS3, then they really don't have a chance to catch bluray. The more Sony sell, the bigger the player base. If only 20 out of 100 use it for bluray movies, at the rate they are selling, they still would have a lead over HD DVD. HD DVD player upsurge is only happening here in this country. Worldwide HD DVD is getting its collective butt kicked, and that is why the Marketing manager is only touting sales here in America. You warn about listening to spin, yet you have listened to spin,and now you are repeating it. So much for you lousy lecture.
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At this point we dont't know, we can't know, if the pendulum is going to swing back to HDDVD's favor or not. The very reason there is an upswing in HDDVD's favor is evidence that your absolutism is flat out wrong. There are too many unknowns to make the statements that you have made about BR winning this war.
Once again, an upsurge in America is only a quarter of the picture. This just goes to show that you do listen to the spinmisters, and you don mind repeating their spin. Especially if it further your argument.
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Another point is on the 2-1 ratio, which is, by the way, the largest number I have seen in favor of BR so far. Even so, it is still not great enough to call a winner. This is because we are talking about what I am estimating to be a less than 5% market segment of the whole movie industry. That makes BR about 3%. These are marginal numbers. You know it and I know it. That is why you have been so reluctant to tell us if the HD market really is 5%. Is it larger, 10%, 15%? That would still give BR only 7% of the whole industry. Is it even smaller? Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants!
The 2-1 ratio has held steady for 10 months. And bluray at this moment is not competiting with the DVD market, it is competing with HD DVD. Talking about the market overall is too wide for this discussion, because it is limited to the things the OP mentions in his first post. The DVD was not one of them. The market for DVD sales is shrinking. Sales are falling. The studio's are running out of movies to release on the format. Every studio now needs a new outlet for their movies, and VOD and downloading are not ready to fill that need. They seem to sense the urgency so they can at least keep revenue steady. The DVD format has essentially run its course in terms of revenue for the studios. The interesting thing that you need to know is that the DVD format didn't have 5% of its market 18 months after its release. The HDM on disc market stands at 5% 15 months after it first started releasing players. It is growing despite the war. The fact is it is growing faster on one side than on the other.
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All the other evidence you present from your inside sources to factory visits are all outside of the actual statistics. You do a great job of using them to support your figures, but they are only supportive in a circumstantial way and more importantly, they are inexact. They are not numbers, they are merely unmeasurable events that you have an opinion on. What is ironic, is that you keep telling me to provide numbers and that you won't accept anything else, and here you are using the same type of evidence that I have been giving to further your own argument. Isn't that quaint?
NDP is not outside the actual statistics, they are just out of what you want to advance in this arguement. Once again you are attempting to make the point that the sales figures are irrelevant. That is what I have advanced, not factory visits, not inside sources(for the umpteenth time). One just has to look at CE support(public record not inside sources), history, and current and year to date sales figures. History has proven that when one manufacturer attempts to shoulder the responsibility of releasing an entirely new product to market, they fail. Sony, Betamax, and the consumer has proven this. History has proven that when many manufacturers support an entirely new product, that product has a greater chance for success. VHS has proven this. All I am trying to do is to get you to support your theories with history like I have just done.
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So here we are. You're basically telling people that if they are thinking about buying a format they should choose BR because of the evidence you have presented. My response is that they should wait it out because your evidence is incomplete. Now why are you so against waiting it out?
If people do what you say, then HDM on disc is doomed. Why can't you understand that. If folks just waited around to see if DVD would overtake VHS, it never would have. I would rather people wait because they don't have the money, and are waiting for a cheaper player. If people do what you recommend, then you are taking the consumer out of the equation. The studio will decide for them, the retailers will decide for them, but they will not be able to decide for themselves. You encourage the sheeple mentality, I don't.
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I mean this is a real obsession for you.
Everytime you have made this personal, you have been wrong wrong wrong. Leave your analysis to analyzing yourself. You cannot do this without knowing me, and certainly can't over the internet whether you know me or not.
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You want people to buy that BR player. You want HDDVD to go down in flames, preferably in some humbling way, I'm sure. The only reason I can think of for your obstinate fanboyism is that you have an interest in BR winning this race.
Fanboys are irrational, illogical, and only want to hear good new from their side. That my friend is not me. Remember I was the one that said I would never listen or believe anything that the BDA says. I also said I do not listen to any BDA member quote sales data or anything else to me. That is not a fanboy mentality. Groundbeef is a fanboy. He takes the Marketing manger of Toshiba word as truth, and will not listen to anything else. That is the mentality of a fanboy. Get your terminology correct or don't call someone out of their name cool?
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When you wrote that you were working for a "Blu-Ray only" (your words) company, we all presumed that was the case, how could we not?
Well my equipment list is right there to read. It states that I have a Toshiba XA2. Got that loooooong before I bought the PS3. I have over 120 HD DVD movies, and oh, I work for a studio that is exclusive to bluray. Presumption is as bad as assumption. Usually you are wrong when you do either of this. I want the format with the most CE support so that I have a choice of players from different manufacturers. Not from just one. I want the one that has the greatest potential for growth, and on both of the accounts HD DVD just doesn't fit the bill.
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Of course, now you've been back-peddling and saying that you work for a company that makes soundtracks for both BR and DVD (we didn't know that before, but I'll let that slide.)
Speak for yourself nightflier. Not everyone has the ignorant curve that you have. Since when has anyone on this planet ever constructed a soundtrack for just Bluray? Since when has anyone ever created a soundtrack just for DVD, VHS, Laserdisc, Beta or any other video format? Never. Every soundtrack constucted outside of direct to video has been created for theatrical release first, and home video second. Your ignorance is not my back peddling.
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In any case, I still want to know why you are so dead set against people waiting to see who comes out ahead. I think you're not admitting the whole story about this and that you do have a financial stake in this, but I'll let you explain that one.
History has told us that there is a window of oportunity for every product released. If people fail to act within that window, the product fails. The DVD is not going to be around forever, no video technology has. If people just sit around waiting for an end, and not participate, then either the product fails, or the consumer doesn't get an active choice. The studio or retailer will choose for you. If you want your chance to act to disappear, that is your business. Just because you were burned on the whole SACD and DVD-A affair doesn't mean the same thing will happen in this case. If everyone thought like you did, we would still be at VHS. No thanks nightlfier.
If you cannot prove that I have a financial stake in all of this, then there is no point in mentioning it. You sound like a stupid broken record. Where is your proof that I have a financial stake in this?
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Face it, Terrence, the world is not exact. It cannot be measured with only mathematics. Anyone who claims otherwise has control issues. So what is this obsession of yours all about?
If you think I have based my opinion on just math, then you haven't read a word I have previously written in 10 pages.
Your ignorance of this industry is apparent here, and supported in another thread you started yourself. There are so many things you don't even have a basic understanding of(like what venue a soundtrack is created for, this is pretty basic knowledge) that you do not have a leg to stand on in this debate.
If you are going to advance a theory, at least have some historical perspective to support your theory. Broad based unrelated items are only filler, and theories are just theories until you have some support that they are now realities.
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Just watched Pearl Harbor on Blu-ray. I have the DVD. Wanted to rent the BR to see how impressive it was. I thought the DVD was great when I originally got it. One surprising thing is I did not see DTS on the BR pop up where the DVD is DTS. Just comparing both with a digital audio hook up the DVD DTS had much more bottom end and physical impact than the BR DD sound track. That's a bit surprising as the DD would not be compressed off BR. I have heard that some of the new HD formats have LFE issues when coming from the 5.1/7.1 outs. I wonder if it's a LFE issue in general. I thought the DD may have had more detail, like in one scene I heard a guy brushing his teeth and I could swear it wasn't there on the DTS but I could have missed it also. There are a few other examples too. I just expected the explosions to be awesome off the BR and that really wasn't the case. It fell quite a bit short in that respect to the DVD DTS.
When comparing PQ I didn't quite know what to think, the BR was sharper, the scenes darker but the colors didn't seem to match in some scenes. This led me to wonder as some one stated in the Dracula exchange, if one could really compare. The DVD seemed to have much more yellow in a lot of scenes. Maybe the resolution of the BR keeps the color in check more where on DVD it glares more. I'm not a videophile so I can't tell you what I saw but when comparing the same scene on BR to DVD, in many, it was almost like each was recorded from a different original. Can you tweak color on film when transferring? I thought overall the color was better on BR. In comparison the DVD seemed to glare, especially in bright scenes with yellow.
In general BR movies look darker when played, any thoughts as to why this is?
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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
Just watched Pearl Harbor on Blu-ray. I have the DVD. Wanted to rent the BR to see how impressive it was. I thought the DVD was great when I originally got it. One surprising thing is I did not see DTS on the BR pop up where the DVD is DTS. Just comparing both with a digital audio hook up the DVD DTS had much more bottom end and physical impact than the BR DD sound track. That's a bit surprising as the DD would not be compressed off BR. I have heard that some of the new HD formats have LFE issues when coming from the 5.1/7.1 outs. I wonder if it's a LFE issue in general. I thought the DD may have had more detail, like in one scene I heard a guy brushing his teeth and I could swear it wasn't there on the DTS but I could have missed it also. There are a few other examples too. I just expected the explosions to be awesome off the BR and that really wasn't the case. It fell quite a bit short in that respect to the DVD DTS.
When comparing PQ I didn't quite know what to think, the BR was sharper, the scenes darker but the colors didn't seem to match in some scenes. This led me to wonder as some one stated in the Dracula exchange, if one could really compare. The DVD seemed to have much more yellow in a lot of scenes. Maybe the resolution of the BR keeps the color in check more where on DVD it glares more. I'm not a videophile so I can't tell you what I saw but when comparing the same scene on BR to DVD, in many, it was almost like each was recorded from a different original. Can you tweak color on film when transferring? I thought overall the color was better on BR. In comparison the DVD seemed to glare, especially in bright scenes with yellow.
In general BR movies look darker when played, any thoughts as to why this is?
I do not know what your exact issues are or what those might be with the Blu-ray, but I can say that the PEARL HARBOR DVD had one of the best DTS 5.1 mixes on the DVD format. Without a doubt some of the best .1 LFE on the market along with some other titles, like MASTER AND COMMANDER. There was also a full-bit rate sampler out there with a clip from PEARL HARBOR that was staggering and one of the best DTS experiences that ranked right up there with the TITANIC clip on another DTS sampler, not to be confused with the audio on the TITANIC re-issue with DTS, which is a disaster, just like the ship!
As far as BRAM STOKERS DRACULA goes...my friend called me about 5-6 weeks ago when he received the Blu-ray to review and commented on how disappointing it was. I was shocked. He basically said that the LD had good color and this was more true to the LD, but still had issues, although it was far superior to the DVD in both resolution and color. He then said that it still didn't seem to look like it did in theaters (we both saw the film in 1992 at different theaters and were at a screening in 2002 for the 10th anniversary). I didn't think any more about it until I saw a huge debacle on the web with other reviewers, critics, fans, commenting on just how disappointing it was and saying the EXACT same things about the negative aspects.
Unfortunately I have not seen the Blu-ray personally, but when I do I will certainly post my comments. I find it hard to believe that so many people could be wrong about this, but maybe it's just a coincidence (or a conspiracy????). I honestly don't know. I know that it wouldn't be the first time though that a studio stood behind an inferior product to maintain it's reputation. The last major goof that I can think of is when Criterion issued Jacques Tati's PLAYTIME on DVD with a 1.0 mono soundtrack!!! This was a 70mm film with a 6-track magnetic stereo audio track...where the F did that go? Who knows? However, Criterion claimed that the 1.0 was how the film was 'suppose' to sound!!! Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Then interestingly enough after I harped on them with a few e-mails the title went OUT OF PRINT! Then, a few years later they re-issued the film ...in STEREO! Interesting eh?
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Originally Posted by Groundbeef
Again, you amaze all with your tapdancing ablity. With the pro-BluRay slant your slinging, I guess you are not to be trusted either. You may read the data, but we can all be damn sure you are going to report what YOU think is important, to satisfy YOUR needs. And it's not that I NEED to read it myself. I sure as hell dont read every technical journal for every problem in my life. If I'm going to build a building, I don't go to architect school, I hire an architect. When I want to buy a car, I don't build my own plant, I buy it at the dealership. No sinking sand, just practicality.
So when you go to buy a car, you go directly to the source that can sell it to you. That makes sense.
If you want to build a building, you go to an architect. That makes sense, its a direct source.
Now when you want sales figures, you DON'T go directly to the source(that would be NDP), you go to somebody who's very job is to spin facts. This shows just how inconsistant your thought process is, and how much a fanboy you are. You are only interested in data coming from parties that will tell you good news. So, you start off wrong, and continue to be wrong because your source only told you what you wanted to hear. Sinking sand if I ever saw it. Fanboyism if I ever saw it.
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How sad that you live in a world where you can't trust anyone. I hope you never get seriously ill. I hear doing your own surgery is a real *****.
Oh I trust things. Just not letting the fox guard the hen house.
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And you're too dense to see the light. The only reason a person would purchase the HD-DVD addon is to WATCH MOVIES. So, it should be counted as a "movie player" because that's what it is. However, the PS3, is multifunction. So, as sold, you can't count it as a 1-1 MOVIE PLAYER. It skews the #'s. It's like trying to say every home in sold in the US is a "vacation home", even though only a small percentage of homeowners actually own a "vacation home".
The definition of Standalone does not address intent. Look it up yourself. It addresses build and functionality. The bottom line is if it need a computer to function, it is not a standalone no matter what its intended purpose is. If you actually read the definition you will see that yourself.
The PS3 is a standalone under the definition of standalone. All of its functionality is enternal, and it does not require any additional parts or accessories to function as a bluray player. This is regardless of intent. It functions as a bluray player right out of its box. The XBOX does not do HDM on disc without the EXTERNAL drive. The HD DVD drive cannot function without the XBOX because all of the software that defines its functionalbility is in the XBOX or an external computer.
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There has to be a percentage. It may be difficult to determine, but perhaps Sony needs to do some polling of owners. Or perhaps they are too afraid that the number is low, and would hurt them. I'll look for the actual article where the 20% was quoted.
Even you have said that how the PS3 is being used cannot be determined. Studio executives and analyst have admitted the exact same thing. You have stated that its an ESTIMATE that 20% of PS3 owners play bluray movies on the PS3. So you are only contridicting yourself just like Ken Graffaeo who has advanced this theory has done. If you cannot determine something, then you cannot put any figure on its usage. Stike two on fanboyism, you are spreading the format FUD passed down from a supporting studio head. Your listening to propaganda spread by the HD DVD PG.
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Really? Is that what MS said? Do you have a link for that? Or are you just spouting out unsubstanciated FUD as you say? And that rat smell, its coming from your computer.
You can google and find his quote that states that he doesn't believe the future of HD movies is on disc. He believes that both formats will ultimately fail. He believes that downloading music and movies is the way of the future, not disc based media. Google it.
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Ok, well at least you profess your ignorance. And please don't quote anything from Bluray.com. Thats got to be a biased source, and Lord knows, we don't use those here. Least of all, you (at least for debating). Most folks on the game sites are pissed that Sony isn't making games for their GAME machine.
And you toss out the term "kids games" like the video game market is a passing fad. Unless the last time you played one was in your 30's when Pong came out, the market has grown a bit. In 2005, the US market alone was worth over $8.5 BILLION. World wide market is expected to grow to 46 BILLION by 2010.
Oh, heres a source for you. I hope its not too biased, its from Business Week, a well known rag for biased reporting:
http://www.businessweek.com/innovate...623_163211.htm
That figure is quite a bit higher than BluRay/HD-DVD sales combined. So, actually, I guess the HD market is a "kiddie" market compared to gaming.
I already stated multiple times I am not interested in gaming. What part didn't you get?
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Oh, I see. Now region differences are irrelevent. Talk about "spin". You wail on the Toshiba rep for incomplete data, then to prove a point of yours, you provide a link "proving" your point, but neglect to add that its for the smallest PS3 market in the world, and will NEVER be available in the US. I'm sure that everyone in the US is thrilled to death that in 2008 (at earliest) New Zealand/Austrialia will be getting IPTV. After all, they (US consumers) plunked down $500-600 to see a much smaller market get cooler technology than we will see. Makes sense to me.
I gotta go get some dramamine, your spin is gonna make me puke!
I wasn't really addressing the market, I was addressing the ability of the PS3 to download HD movies. I proved it can be done, even if its only done in West Gut Bucket Michigan. When something can't be done, it can be done anywhere.
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And have you actually watched a HD movie on a 360 d/l? I'm guessing no. If you have, please share your experience. What movie was it, and when? What size TV? Connections? Or just another example of bloviation you tend to engage in? I have rented several, and watched on my 50" plasma. The DRM is seemless, never having caused an issue, as MS has vetted the procedure. Never having witnessed the artifacting myself, I would have to say that your "sources" are liars. Unless you can actually prove your baseless (again) arguements, I guess we can all discount your non-existant anecdotal "evidence". And pray tell, why IS the MS marketplace the #1 source for d/l of HD material ANYWHERE? If it's so bad, you'd think people would be running for the hills.
How can you call someone a liar before you even know the facts? Kinda stupid huh?
I had a friends XBOX360 premium hooked via HDMI to a professional grade $20k video processor, which outputted to a 65" CRT with 9" color corrected guns and a custom made da-lite screen especially made for this custom upgraded television(my television has no enternal processing. I seriously doubt there is any video parameter measured that your 50" plasma could even come close to my setup. I sit a THX, SMPTE recommended distance from my television which allows my eyes to resolve resolutions has high as 1440p which my television supports and above. I watched 300 in hi def which registered only 720p on my processor. I saw blockiness, color banding, a whole lot of edge enhancement and halos. This was relatively easy to spot, and my friend who the player belongs to also spotted it as well. I saw the same thing on disturbia and wild hogs. What may look good on a 50" plasma from 10ft away, may not on a 65" from 9ft away. As the screen size goes up, the more artifacts you will see.
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And as far as quality goes, it is quite good. The audio may not be lossless, but its good enough as a rental to help you decide if you want to spring for the actual disk. For $4.00 for a HD rental, its quite reasonable.
How far do you sit from your plasma?. If it is further away than 5'6", then you cannot resolve any more detail than 480p. Since most folks don't sit that close, you would probably miss any artifacts in the video even if it there by the boat loads.
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No, I'll help you out silly man. Here's an article from 2007:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...123_11611.html
Now it looks like KOREA may actually get the technology as well. Pretty good progress for Sony no? Announce the technology in 2005, and just get around to implementing it in 2007/8. Now thats PROGRESS! Sony is "working" on getting some sort of movie d/l service in the US, but I can't even find an article more recent that Feb. 07, that even discusses the "possiblity" of a movie d/l service.
I have the link, and its dated Feb 07, and its say its going to happen, so that a little beyond the possiblity. Even if there is no downloading service, the PS3 has the hardware to make it happen. Would you like to discuss the billions of dollars the microsoft has set aside to fix the 3 out of 10 XBOX's that overheat and give the screen of death?
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No more spin than Sony flogging the horse that every PS3 owner is some sort of rabid movie buyin' fool. And the difference is that there is no "integrated" HD-DVD console on the market. And if you want to talk about media center, don't forget to mention that the 360 is KILLING Sony in function in the "media center" arena. Sony fanboys drool at the content availible for MS users. Hell, there's over 350 movies about 20% HD, availiable RIGHT now. What do you have on PS store? Oh yeah, the Lair video....cool.
Funny, you mention that the HD DVD drive is a standalone, but yet you turn around in the next breath and mention there is no integrated HD DVD console. Show me a link that states the Sony thought every PS3 is a movie buyer. They have stated no such thing Mr Fudd
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Not my fault you are a tightwad. Shoulda sprung for the more expensive one.
That was the expensive one brightness
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So now we are down to more anecdotal "evidence". You are going to have to better than your 1 sob story about the service Toshiba gave you. If you conduct yourself on the phone like you do here, its probably lucky you even got it when you did.
If it was just one story I wouldn't have mentioned it.
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So now "There are no need for numbers". Wow, you certainly have come full circle tonight. First my numbers are suspect, and now you don't even need to offer them. Oh well, we all pulled out the cry rag and had a good sob after reading your tearjerker of a story. I hope it was cathardic, and makes you feel better.
You are beginning to fall over your own tail. First you state that nobody knows how many PS3 owners are purchasing movies. Then you attempt to slap an abitrary number, and when called on it and measured against your own words, then you come up with this beauty. Old online trick, when you don't have an arguement, you insult the other poster. You are not the first to do this, and you are not even that good at it.
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We are arguing on opposide sides of the street. I am arguing %, and you are arguing sales #'s. More BluRay units sold? Perhaps. More HD-DVD players equipped to go online, absolutely (as a percentage 100% vs >100% BluRay)
Now its percentages to hide real numbers. You must be learning from the Marketing Manager from Toshiba. You quote percentages to hide the fact that there are more PS3 connected to the net than all of Toshiba's HD DVD products combined. Pretty sad.
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And its unfortunate you seem to think that only financial/sales figures can be spun. Talk about gullible... Are you actually suggesting that ONLY marketing talks about products in a positive note, and you will get the "straight dope" from anyone else in the company? Please, stop embarrasing yourself.
Well if you read the post meathead, you would have read and could follow a link to another person who confirmed what the studio executive said. Now if only if your marketing manager mentality could help you control your emotions, and actually read one post, instead of pulling out a single sentence to make a point. Context is everything online, except if you are a fanboy spreading FUD. Then context makes no difference as long as you can shift attention away from the fact that you are being manuipulated because of the sources you listen to.
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How do you explain it then? Do it better, and back it up. What are your breakdown of units, and disk sales. You got the reports, break it out for us numbers man. "Un-Spin" it for the masses. We are dying to hear your results.
Go ahead.....
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Sure, I see the difference. But the fact remains, that it's not only fincancial/sales figures that can be spun. Remeber when PS3 was in development, Sony was flogging 100% BW compatibility? Ooops, turned out not to be true, but you can't unring that bell. MS engaged in plenty of spin as well, but frankly, not much involved money.
Compatible to what? I am waiting for you to address the 3 out of 10 XBOX are defective arguement since you believe that Microsoft is so innocent. That wouldn't even admit they had a problem until the complaints go so loud they couldn't ignored. Console overheating, motherboard frying, the red ring of death. Along with Vista, this is part of Microsoft's fanboy perfection.
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Well, looks like you found something more current than 2005. Very nice. Sony has been talking up (spin) their "video d/l service" for well over a year. And guess what. Everyone is still waiting. Remeber how great the "free" online experience would be....and what do you get for free? NOTHING. The latest article mentioning the US movie d/l service was back in July 2007. Still promising it "soon".
I am talking bluray and HD DVD, please keep the topic on that. Downloads are not apart of the discussion, and is not mentioned in the OP original statement.
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As of now, MS has over 350 feature films for rent/ 20% are HD. Say what you want about it, but at least MS is delivering. Unlike one empty promise after another from Sony.
Exactly what good is this if it only looks good on smaller screens and PC screens? Quality not quantity. I would rather have nothing than junk.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
I do not know what your exact issues are or what those might be with the Blu-ray, but I can say that the PEARL HARBOR DVD had one of the best DTS 5.1 mixes on the DVD format. Without a doubt some of the best .1 LFE on the market along with some other titles, like MASTER AND COMMANDER. There was also a full-bit rate sampler out there with a clip from PEARL HARBOR that was staggering and one of the best DTS experiences that ranked right up there with the TITANIC clip on another DTS sampler, not to be confused with the audio on the TITANIC re-issue with DTS, which is a disaster, just like the ship!
As far as BRAM STOKERS DRACULA goes...my friend called me about 5-6 weeks ago when he received the Blu-ray to review and commented on how disappointing it was. I was shocked. He basically said that the LD had good color and this was more true to the LD, but still had issues, although it was far superior to the DVD in both resolution and color. He then said that it still didn't seem to look like it did in theaters (we both saw the film in 1992 at different theaters and were at a screening in 2002 for the 10th anniversary). I didn't think any more about it until I saw a huge debacle on the web with other reviewers, critics, fans, commenting on just how disappointing it was and saying the EXACT same things about the negative aspects.
Unfortunately I have not seen the Blu-ray personally, but when I do I will certainly post my comments. I find it hard to believe that so many people could be wrong about this, but maybe it's just a coincidence (or a conspiracy????). I honestly don't know. I know that it wouldn't be the first time though that a studio stood behind an inferior product to maintain it's reputation. The last major goof that I can think of is when Criterion issued Jacques Tati's PLAYTIME on DVD with a 1.0 mono soundtrack!!! This was a 70mm film with a 6-track magnetic stereo audio track...where the F did that go? Who knows? However, Criterion claimed that the 1.0 was how the film was 'suppose' to sound!!! Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Then interestingly enough after I harped on them with a few e-mails the title went OUT OF PRINT! Then, a few years later they re-issued the film ...in STEREO! Interesting eh?
IT will NEVER look like it does in theaters. EVER!
To compare a home video product to a theater presentation invites disapointment.
It would take a 2,000p device AT LEAST to even get close to film.
Now, comparing to laserdisc, fine, some said when DVD first came out that laser was better, and with some early DVD issues they were right.
But it will be years, if ever before a HT source even gets close to movies.
And, ps, since your home set is tosh, which is notorious for its red push, the argument is even more problematic.
The question is , does it look good? Does it translate the directors intentions into an enjoyable experience?
HT products have to stand on their own, comparing them to theater is very unfair:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
Just watched Pearl Harbor on Blu-ray. I have the DVD. Wanted to rent the BR to see how impressive it was. I thought the DVD was great when I originally got it. One surprising thing is I did not see DTS on the BR pop up where the DVD is DTS. Just comparing both with a digital audio hook up the DVD DTS had much more bottom end and physical impact than the BR DD sound track. That's a bit surprising as the DD would not be compressed off BR. I have heard that some of the new HD formats have LFE issues when coming from the 5.1/7.1 outs. I wonder if it's a LFE issue in general. I thought the DD may have had more detail, like in one scene I heard a guy brushing his teeth and I could swear it wasn't there on the DTS but I could have missed it also. There are a few other examples too. I just expected the explosions to be awesome off the BR and that really wasn't the case. It fell quite a bit short in that respect to the DVD DTS.
The standard DD track on BR is uncompressed? Are you sure about that? I thought it was no different than the compressed track you'd find on DVD.....just at a higher bitrate. Can someone provide some info or a link on this? Thanks
From BR.com
What audio codecs will Blu-ray support?
Linear PCM (LPCM) - up to 8 channels of uncompressed audio. (mandatory)
Dolby Digital (DD) - format used for DVDs, 5.1-channel surround sound. (mandatory)
Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) - extension of Dolby Digital, 7.1-channel surround sound. (optional)
Dolby TrueHD - lossless encoding of up to 8 channels of audio. (optional)
DTS Digital Surround - format used for DVDs, 5.1-channel surround sound. (mandatory)
DTS-HD High Resolution Audio - extension of DTS, 7.1-channel surround sound. (optional)
DTS-HD Master Audio - lossless encoding of up to 8 channels of audio. (optional)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Now when you want sales figures, you DON'T go directly to the source(that would be NDP), you go to somebody who's very job is to spin facts. This shows just how inconsistant your thought process is, and how much a fanboy you are.
Not at all. Just practical. I don't have the time, money, or energy to spend digesting industry reports that are about a market I only use sparingly. It seems kinda foolish to invest so much personal time into a subject that really doesn't require that much first hand knowledge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
The definition of Standalone does not address intent. Look it up yourself. It addresses build and functionality. The bottom line is if it need a computer to function, it is not a standalone no matter what its intended purpose is. If you actually read the definition you will see that yourself.
The PS3 is a standalone under the definition of standalone. All of its functionality is enternal, and it does not require any additional parts or accessories to function as a bluray player. This is regardless of intent. It functions as a bluray player right out of its box. The XBOX does not do HDM on disc without the EXTERNAL drive. The HD DVD drive cannot function without the XBOX because all of the software that defines its functionalbility is in the XBOX or an external computer.
Its not a definition that is needed. It's a little common sense here. You want to see the forest, EXCEPT for the trees. If a consumer buys the HD-DVD, its to watch movies. I am sorry that you are so stupid you cannot understand that. Therefore, it should be counted as a "single" player. Unlike the PS3, where it is DUAL purpose. One may buy the PS3, and never watch a single movie. Therefore, its not a "true" movie machine for counting purposes. Respond as you will, but thats a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Even you have said that how the PS3 is being used cannot be determined. Studio executives and analyst have admitted the exact same thing. You have stated that its an ESTIMATE that 20% of PS3 owners play bluray movies on the PS3.
And you seem to think by saying "whaaa, that not true" that it isn't. Do you have ANY information contridicting it? Kill the messenger I guess, but at least have a decent counter argument other than "I don't like the source".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You can google and find his quote that states that he doesn't believe the future of HD movies is on disc. He believes that both formats will ultimately fail. He believes that downloading music and movies is the way of the future, not disc based media. Google it.
I'd rather not do your job. I've already looked up plenty to try and help you before, but wasn't very good at it. Not much data backs you up. So if you have a link, post it. I'd love to read it.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I wasn't really addressing the market, I was addressing the ability of the PS3 to download HD movies. I proved it can be done, even if its only done in West Gut Bucket Michigan. When something can't be done, it can be done anywhere.
Oh, I see. Now its "ablitiy" versus functionality. Talk about shifting sand. I would still like to point out that the "ability" is in the PS3's smallest market, and it will NEVER be available in the US (the largest market). Parce it anyway you want, but you set out the flaming bag of poo, and now it's gotten all over you. If we are going to have a sensible debate, lets stick to topics that we can actually use here. Not in some little town in the middle of the smallest market that will never see the light of day in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
How far do you sit from your plasma?. If it is further away than 5'6", then you cannot resolve any more detail than 480p. Since most folks don't sit that close, you would probably miss any artifacts in the video even if it there by the boat loads.
About 9'. So if I'm missing it, I'm missing it. I'd rather watch the film though, than count pimples on the actors face's at 4.5'
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I have the link, and its dated Feb 07, and its say its going to happen, so that a little beyond the possiblity. Even if there is no downloading service, the PS3 has the hardware to make it happen. Would you like to discuss the billions of dollars the microsoft has set aside to fix the 3 out of 10 XBOX's that overheat and give the screen of death?
Smoke and mirrors in the center ring folks. Step right up the distraction master. What exactly does the 360 failure rate have to do with anything we have discussed. MS dragged it's feet (Shame on them), then has since offered a comprehensive 3 year repair/replace warrenty. Call them, they send a box prepaid, send it in, and within 2 weeks, prepaid back to you fixed or replaced. Not to bad. Is there anything you would like to add to this "non" debate?
At least the d/l function of the 360 is robust, and alive. Unlike the "Free" service from Sony where "Free" equals "Nothing".
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Funny, you mention that the HD DVD drive is a standalone, but yet you turn around in the next breath and mention there is no integrated HD DVD console. Show me a link that states the Sony thought every PS3 is a movie buyer. They have stated no such thing Mr Fudd
Right here little man:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR111...&query=pandora
Seems that Sony was pitching the PS3 before launch as "millions" of bluray players to seccure exclusive movie rights on the BR format.
There are plenty more where that came from. BTW at least when you ask for a link, I can provide. When you are asked for a link, all we get are excuses. Pretty lame you ask for a link, and it instantly disproves you. I hope you're not a lawyer. 1st rule is never ask a question you don't know the answer to. Apparently you just blow out questions, like you blow out smoke.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
That was the expensive one brightness
Man, your math skills suck even worse than we suspected. Original pricing of the PS3 was $599 for the 60GB, and $499 for the 20 GB. SO I guess if you spent $499, and not $599, then you didn't get the "expensive one brightness".
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
If it was just one story I wouldn't have mentioned it.
Right, you mentioned 2 stories. Both anecdotal. Neither inspiring, nor noteworthy.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You are beginning to fall over your own tail. Then you attempt to slap an abitrary number, and when called on it and measured against your own words, then you come up with this beauty. Old online trick, when you don't have an arguement, you insult the other poster. You are not the first to do this, and you are not even that good at it.
You don't need to have a self-diagonsis of yourself here. Save it for your therapist. You are not a saint, nor a very good foil for debate.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Now its percentages to hide real numbers. You must be learning from the Marketing Manager from Toshiba. You quote percentages to hide the fact that there are more PS3 connected to the net than all of Toshiba's HD DVD products combined. Pretty sad.
Thats a bold statement there brother. Back it up. There may be more PS3's out than HD-DVD players. But lets see what you have in terms of #'s of households hooked up either way. I'll reckon you don't have anything (like most of your assertations). If you got the real "#'s" then post them up. Links and sources. We're waiting.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Well if you read the post meathead, you would have read and could follow a link to another person who confirmed what the studio executive said. Now if only if your marketing manager mentality could help you control your emotions, and actually read one post, instead of pulling out a single sentence to make a point. Context is everything online, except if you are a fanboy spreading FUD. Then context makes no difference as long as you can shift attention away from the fact that you are being manuipulated because of the sources you listen to.
Right....so your shill had "confirmation" and that makes it unbiased. Very good, but not good enough to wiggle away today toady. The fact is that ANY information can be spun. You would like us to belive that only $$/ Financial information can be spun. Not true. Now, you are trying to hide behind some curtain that what you SAY, isn't really what you MEAN. And you are right, context is everything. For you, context means, if it supports you, its good. If it contridicts you, dismiss, insult, and bring up unrelated topics (ie MS failure rate).
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Go ahead.....
Again, in the center ring folks, its "Master Distracter", able to disagree with any arguement, but unable to provide data to back it up. You have the reports (you said you subscribe), so break them out. Or is it a numbers thing again...we all know how lousy you are with math.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Compatible to what? I am waiting for you to address the 3 out of 10 XBOX are defective arguement since you believe that Microsoft is so innocent. That wouldn't even admit they had a problem until the complaints go so loud they couldn't ignored. Console overheating, motherboard frying, the red ring of death. Along with Vista, this is part of Microsoft's fanboy perfection.
Man, so defensive. I already stated that MS has PLENTY of warts on its arse. But you musta missed it, hyperventilating after BR got dissed. Again, its been adressed. Sure they coulda worked faster on the problem.
But unlike Sony, who announced with much fanfare in 2005 d/l service (in New Zealand BTW, but really does location matter??) and hasn't even got it up an running yet. MS has a very robust system. Even PS3 Fanboys have to admit that one.
But don't worry, I'm sure in 2009 or so maybe the "vaporware" will finally show up.
And how does Vista relate to this? More smoke signals from your little camp?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I am talking bluray and HD DVD, please keep the topic on that. Downloads are not apart of the discussion, and is not mentioned in the OP original statement.
Oh the irony of that quote just kills me. Yeah, please keep it on topic....such as MS failure rates, and Vista??
And certainly don't bring up any issues directly related to HD formats such as oh I don't know HD DOWNLOADS? Must be a sore point as Sony cant do it (except in New Zealand and Korea...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Exactly what good is this if it only looks good on smaller screens and PC screens? Quality not quantity. I would rather have nothing than junk.
Good thing you bought the PS3 then, and that would be the "nothing" side of the coin.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
IT will NEVER look like it does in theaters. EVER!
To compare a home video product to a theater presentation invites disapointment.
It would take a 2,000p device AT LEAST to even get close to film.
Now, comparing to laserdisc, fine, some said when DVD first came out that laser was better, and with some early DVD issues they were right.
But it will be years, if ever before a HT source even gets close to movies.
And, ps, since your home set is tosh, which is notorious for its red push, the argument is even more problematic.
The question is , does it look good? Does it translate the directors intentions into an enjoyable experience?
HT products have to stand on their own, comparing them to theater is very unfair:1:
I am not saying that it SHOULD or COULD look like it does in theaters, but this gives a reference point at least...A North Star, if you will. Something to aim for because that is the way that the film should appear to some degree, of course every theater is going to have a slightly different look on some scale due to bulbs and other factors with the prints and such, but for the most part, the theatrically experience demonstrates how the film should look, what colors should look like, and so on and so forth.
I am not familiar with Toshiba giving a "red" push,(where did you come up with this or where do you have further evidence to support this?) I have my TV calibrated and check up on it every 3-4 months checking black levels etc etc. I am not using my TV set as a reference point on this matter by any means. I also have a access to some Sanyo HD projectors, which I use often for checking certain discs out as well, but again I am not using that as a reference point either.
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One more thing...
I use a different method for TV calibration that most people might have access to. I do video production as well as graphic design, so I produce a DVD that has fully color-accurate Color Bars on it, which then I play on my TV set, while comparing that to my color-accurate Color Bars that are being displayed on my monitor, which has also been color-calibrated using the NTSC standards and Adobe RGB standards. I typically use the THX optimizers for brightness and contrast levels though.
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Red push is when a set over accentuates the color red. Toshiba's are well known to suffer from this as mine was.It became more obvious after the calibration was done.
bill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman1999
Red push is when a set over accentuates the color red. Toshiba's are well known to suffer from this as mine was.It became more obvious after the calibration was done.
bill
I did not notice this on my set, even during calibration. Maybe only certain models suffer?
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It may be because your set is small and a direct view as opposed to a projection set.Also i was referring to a proper ISF calibration.
bill
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There you go with the point-for-point drivel and boring everyone...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
If you can debate me point by point, do it. Its much too late to talk about sparing anyone, this thread is 11 pages long, and our debate has pretty much dominated it.
Well that makes sense in a sick kind of way, after all this is just "entertainment" to you. I suppose you don't have better things to do, but most of us have lives outside of this forum.
It's amazing how stubborn you are. At every turn you insist on debating every last point until everyone is sick of your hairsplitting. I categorically disagree with everyone of your counterarguments, but I really want to spare everyone here the irritation of reading through pointless details. So I'm just going to focus on a couple. Your selective picking at them does not change the fact that your conclusions are still wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Well, in your vast lack of understanding, I didn't say that a major event wouldn't have NO impact. My point is that major events that we have seen in history have had little to no effect, not just plain zero
I'll ignore the doublespeak double negative, here, since I presume you meant to say "I didn't say that a major event would have NO impact." That aside, you did say that exactly. Shall I quote you? How about this one: "There is no evidence that at all of a negative impact." Poor English aside, I think that's pretty clear. Or how about this one: "There is no evidence that we have seen so far that ties what happen in one place, affecting everywhere when it comes to sales of video media." Again, some doublespeak there, but I'm pretty sure you meant to say that there was no impact. I could quote some more, but these were the most doublespeak-ish, so I thought I would point them out. So that has been your mantra for a few pages, now. None, zilch, nada.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
What little impact that has occured has certainly has not risen to the level that someone could base this as a talking point in a debate.
Oh, so now you do want to talk about degrees, estimates, and all that fuzzy stuff you didn't like before. I guess when your position is untenable, then you waffle a bit. How convenient. My point was that it had an impact, yours that it had none, and now you're admitting that it could have some. Are you coming around to my side?
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You have had about 10 pages to cite me an example of major events having a critical enough impact to become a major talking point within a debate.
I don't need anymore examples - you'll probably trash them anyway. I'm talking about a very unique situation: this holiday season. Wait, let me say that a little louder: THIS HOLIDAY SEASON. Now since you agree that political events have some impact (or do we need to go back to that one too?), there is the possibility that something could affect this format war. Now, you've had plenty of mileage to make this more than it is. I'm saying the possibility is there - I'm not saying it will happen. You would love that, I'm sure. All I'm saying is that this holiday season is a unique situation for this format war because we have a trigger-happy government, a fragile economy, and a format war that represents an extremely marginal portion of the market (more on that later).
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
A recent upsurge is not a trend. Bluray players have also had upsurges.
How can you know if it's not over. How can you predict what this upsurge will turn into? You may be in bed with the "insiders" but they don't know either. Oh, yes your precious stats - guess what, they are all in the past. No guarantee that they apply to the future. Now Terence, this is pretty basic stuff. You're presuming to have a crystal ball, here. You want everyone here to think that somehow you can read the future. Fantasy is what that is. Interestingly, this is coming from someone who only wants facts and figures.
Now here's a biggy. I want to emphasize it, because only a complete boob would still support it's premise:
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
... bluray at this moment is not competiting with the DVD market, it is competing with HD DVD. Talking about the market overall is too wide for this discussion, because it is limited to the things the OP mentions in his first post.
Completely inaccurate and misleading. BR & HDDVD are very much competing with DVD. As long as I can walk into a store and buy either a BR/HDDVD or a DVD of the same movie, than they are competing. Oh, I'm sorry, because the OP didn't mention this, we need to believe that they are not competing? What kind of cockamamie logic is that? They are in the store right next to each other, right? I can buy either one, right? So how are they not competing. Explain that one to us, oh great sage....
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
The market for DVD sales is shrinking. Sales are falling. The studio's are running out of movies to release on the format.
Huh? Some more of your doublespeak logic? Maybe DVD sales are shrinking because the movies are all formulaic and boring (Disney/Pixar is a good example). Or maybe people are downloading them to their iPods? Maybe VOD is having an impact. Fact is, there's no way to know. You're speculating, guessing, and extrapolating. Whatever your intelligence (and I'm sure you think it's impressive), it does not allow you to know the whole market. As a matter of fact, you would have to incorporate some unknowns and those are outside of this debate, right? Well which is it? You can't have it both ways.
On to the rest of this comedy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
The interesting thing that you need to know is that the DVD format didn't have 5% of its market 18 months after its release.
That was what, 10-15 years ago? How is that relevant? The industry, technology, and distribution methods were completely different back then. This is nonsense and amounts to nothing more than your own petty FUD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Once again you are attempting to make the point that the sales figures are irrelevant. That is what I have advanced, not factory visits, not inside sources(for the umpteenth time).
I never said that they were "irrelevant." Where do you get this lie. You are just flat out lying, now. It's disingenuous and considering your vaulted reputation here, almost insulting. By the way, you also advanced factory visits, and your inside sources with their biased opinions to back your own argument. Don't even try and stand there and tell us that you've been relying only on your fancy numbers. You're lying again. That's a bad thing to do, little Terrence.
OK, last point, because your childish ranting is getting tiresome:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
If people do what you say, then HDM on disc is doomed. Why can't you understand that.
So let me get this straight, 'cause this one's a doosie. People need to buy into the BR format because if they don't it is doomed? So are you saying that as it stands right now, the format is doomed? Then why should they buy in? Why buy into a format that is so marginal that it only represents a tiny percent of the movie market? Because that will halp it survive? I mean talk about fanboyism! Now we know why you're so zealous about getting people to buy in. If they don't you'll be proven wrong.
That's kind of like a certain public figure (that shall remain nameless) telling people to go buy Hummers after 9/11 - it's good for GM, my friends at Texaco, and will help you forget why you shouldn't be buying a car you won't be able to afford in a few years. I'm telling you, you're starting to look like that little imp from Texas more and more.
So OK everybody: please buy a BR player so that little Terrence is vindicated! It's good for BR and it's good for Lil' T.
Wow, that's precious.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundbeef
Not at all. Just practical. I don't have the time, money, or energy to spend digesting industry reports that are about a market I only use sparingly. It seems kinda foolish to invest so much personal time into a subject that really doesn't require that much first hand knowledge.
Apparently its not so foolish, cause you are attempting to shoot me down with no bullets in your gun. Its not so foolish that you feel that you just had to jump in on this debate. Its not so foolish that you have spent the last several pages making one FUD comment after another. It takes exactly three minutes to look at weekly sales figures, and monthly player sales by region. You have spent more than that just being a fanboy on this thread.
Quote:
Its not a definition that is needed. It's a little common sense here. You want to see the forest, EXCEPT for the trees. If a consumer buys the HD-DVD, its to watch movies. I am sorry that you are so stupid you cannot understand that. Therefore, it should be counted as a "single" player. Unlike the PS3, where it is DUAL purpose. One may buy the PS3, and never watch a single movie. Therefore, its not a "true" movie machine for counting purposes. Respond as you will, but thats a fact.
Is the beefy one really a person, or a washing machine. You have spin-itis. You cannot redefine a definition right out of the dictionary just to advance a false argument.
Techterms definition
http://www.techterms.com/definition/standalone
Your dictionary.com
http://www.yourdictionary.com/stand-alone
Now if you are American, this ought to be as simple as yes or no. Anything more, and somebody has started the spin cycle.
Can the HD DVD drive play a disc by itself without being connected to the XBOX, and show the video up on the screen?
Can the XBOX play a HD DVD disc without the HD DVD drive?
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And you seem to think by saying "whaaa, that not true" that it isn't. Do you have ANY information contridicting it? Kill the messenger I guess, but at least have a decent counter argument other than "I don't like the source".
Ummm...you contradicted it yourself Didn't you say
Unlike the dual-purpose PS3, where it is very difficult to determine the actual usage (either movie/game).
Once again groundbeefytype, how on one side of your mouth do you say this, and then turn around a put a number to it? You can't. So since you can't determine the usage, then you cannot put a percentage on an unknown. Right? Good lordy yah, the messenger done fell on his own sword!!
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I'd rather not do your job. I've already looked up plenty to try and help you before, but wasn't very good at it. Not much data backs you up. So if you have a link, post it. I'd love to read it.
If you cannot understand the meaning of stanalone in english, what makes anyone think that a link would give you greater understanding of your own contridiction. So far you have provided no data to support a 20% movie usage for the PS3. And you know why, because it doesn't exist. No survey has been taken of the PS3 bluray usage. Not one. So as far as I am concerned its just a number you gleaned from FUD spread by the HD DVD PG via Ken Graffaeo mouth. He's the one that made up the number off the top of his little bitty bald head.
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Oh, I see. Now its "ablitiy" versus functionality. Talk about shifting sand. I would still like to point out that the "ability" is in the PS3's smallest market, and it will NEVER be available in the US (the largest market). Parce it anyway you want, but you set out the flaming bag of poo, and now it's gotten all over you. If we are going to have a sensible debate, lets stick to topics that we can actually use here. Not in some little town in the middle of the smallest market that will never see the light of day in the US.
But didn't you say the PS3 couldn't do it at all. I believe the same PS3 sold in Australia is the same PS3 sold to me. Why would Sony be offering a HD Download service if the PS3 couldn't do HD downloads? Doesn't seem to add up here.
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About 9'. So if I'm missing it, I'm missing it. I'd rather watch the film though, than count pimples on the actors face's at 4.5'
So you are sitting 9' away from a 50inch? You are purchasing and watching HD media and your eyes are only capable of 480p resolution at best from that distance, and with that screen size. No wonder you can't see the artifacting.(rolls eyes)
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Smoke and mirrors in the center ring folks. Step right up the distraction master. What exactly does the 360 failure rate have to do with anything we have discussed. MS dragged it's feet (Shame on them), then has since offered a comprehensive 3 year repair/replace warrenty. Call them, they send a box prepaid, send it in, and within 2 weeks, prepaid back to you fixed or replaced. Not to bad. Is there anything you would like to add to this "non" debate?
Oh, you want to completely diss the PS3, but don't want to talk about the problems of the 360. How convient(in his best church lady voice). And you complain about BR player owners having to wait for a firmware upgrade disc. They can still watch movies at least. How about doing without their machine while they wait for another, no bluray player owner has to go through that.
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At least the d/l function of the 360 is robust, and alive. Unlike the "Free" service from Sony where "Free" equals "Nothing".
Robust is a matter of perspective. The PQ and AQ I heard and saw is not exactly what I would call robust.
Ummm....there is nothing in that opinion piece that mentions anything about Sony saying that every PS3 owner was buying bluray discs. This is an opinion piece, not a fact sheet. Want to try this one more time?
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There are plenty more where that came from. BTW at least when you ask for a link, I can provide. When you are asked for a link, all we get are excuses. Pretty lame you ask for a link, and it instantly disproves you. I hope you're not a lawyer. 1st rule is never ask a question you don't know the answer to. Apparently you just blow out questions, like you blow out smoke.
Unfortunately your links don't mention what you say they do. At IFA 2007 all of the exclusive studio said before a live audience they were not paid any money or offered any incentives to support bluray. Can Paramount, Dreamworks, or Universal say the same. Nope, because we already know that they are getting PAID to support HD DVD.
What Bluray was pitching is better copy protection and region coding which is exactly what Disney and Fox wanted. Toshiba would not give it, and they consequently do not have Disney or Fox's support.
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Man, your math skills suck even worse than we suspected. Original pricing of the PS3 was $599 for the 60GB, and $499 for the 20 GB. SO I guess if you spent $499, and not $599, then you didn't get the "expensive one brightness".
Hey beefgonebad, Sony dropped the price of the 60GB from $599 to $499 along time ago.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19674547/
Too busy chomping on dem burgers to pay attention huh?
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Right, you mentioned 2 stories. Both anecdotal. Neither inspiring, nor noteworthy.
Actually there was alot more than that. Their customer service admitted that.
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You don't need to have a self-diagonsis of yourself here. Save it for your therapist. You are not a saint, nor a very good foil for debate.
Eh, take this and your tinfoil hat to the sandbox with the other game playing kids.
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Thats a bold statement there brother. Back it up. There may be more PS3's out than HD-DVD players. But lets see what you have in terms of #'s of households hooked up either way. I'll reckon you don't have anything (like most of your assertations). If you got the real "#'s" then post them up. Links and sources. We're waiting.
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burgerboy, you just made my point. Thanks. There are more PS3 out there than HD DVD players, and they are all wifi capable. Nobody has any figures on how many homes have wifi connections, or have their players hooked up to the net. Nobody does. However all one has to do is look at the delays in getting firmware discs, and you can conclude that HD DVD does not have that many hooked up to the net. If they did have alot, then one can conclude there would be no backlog or delay right? This does make sense unless you are a fanboy.
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Right....so your shill had "confirmation" and that makes it unbiased. Very good, but not good enough to wiggle away today toady. The fact is that ANY information can be spun. You would like us to belive that only $$/ Financial information can be spun. Not true. Now, you are trying to hide behind some curtain that what you SAY, isn't really what you MEAN. And you are right, context is everything. For you, context means, if it supports you, its good. If it contridicts you, dismiss, insult, and bring up unrelated topics (ie MS failure rate).
Robert Harris is no shill. He is a film historian who knows far more about film than you will ever know in your next sixteen lives. He is not related to any studio, and has been very harsh with Sony in the past. So you can hardly call him a shill, he's no more one than you are with HD DVD.
You mentioned XBOX and Downloads within this conversation I believe. Those were unrelated topics as well. Can you see how bitter your own medicine is?
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Again, in the center ring folks, its "Master Distracter", able to disagree with any arguement, but unable to provide data to back it up. You have the reports (you said you subscribe), so break them out. Or is it a numbers thing again...we all know how lousy you are with math.
Yeah I was so lousy I proved you wrong.
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Man, so defensive. I already stated that MS has PLENTY of warts on its arse. But you musta missed it, hyperventilating after BR got dissed. Again, its been adressed. Sure they coulda worked faster on the problem.
Its been addressed to the tune of 1 billion dead presidents and counting. It has been stated by retailers that the XBOX had a 25-30% failure rate, the PS3 has been listed at less than 1%. So just who got dissed? It seems the XBOX has a boatload of problems. Scratching disc??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_36...nical_problems
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But unlike Sony, who announced with much fanfare in 2005 d/l service (in New Zealand BTW, but really does location matter??) and hasn't even got it up an running yet. MS has a very robust system. Even PS3 Fanboys have to admit that one.
Robust or Pedestrian? Quality is everything, Quantity is nothing.
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But don't worry, I'm sure in 2009 or so maybe the "vaporware" will finally show up.
Wanna talk vaporware. Let's talk HD DVD 51GB disc.
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And how does Vista relate to this? More smoke signals from your little camp?
I don't have a "camp". That is for boy scouts. You need to bring your vocabulary up to adult standards. Vista along with the overheating disc eating XBOX360, and buggy artifactious video downloads are the brain children of your beloved Microsoft.
{quote]Oh the irony of that quote just kills me. Yeah, please keep it on topic....such as MS failure rates, and Vista??
And certainly don't bring up any issues directly related to HD formats such as oh I don't know HD DOWNLOADS? Must be a sore point as Sony cant do it ( except in New Zealand and Korea...)
Okay, you open the door, I'm walkin in. Issue one, HD DVD is not the HD format of tomorrow, its the filler of today. The format is already getting maxed out to the point that it cannot support extra's, the movie, and lossless tracks on a 30GB disc. Transformers, one of the biggest releases of the year for Paramount, and it has no lossless track because there was no room for it.
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1110/transformers.html
Read the review on the sound. It was just as I mentioned earlier on this very thread. Oh, and how about the fact that the Jack Ryan special edition Package released by Paramount has lossless audio, but no extra's because there wasn't enough room on the disc
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh..._Special_/1070
This is where inside sources come in handy. I knew both were going to be released like this way before the disc were released
http://forums.audioreview.com/general-audio/hi-res-audio-formats-br-hddvd-24507.html
Post #4
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Good thing you bought the PS3 then, and that would be the "nothing" side of the coin.
Well, my nothing doesn't overheat, scratch discs, require an external drive to play HD movies, or has a manufacturer who was in denial of the problems for almost two years.
You may go back to consuming cowburgers....
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As I read through this ...
I can only help but think one thing....
I would be embarrassed to be part of the Blu-ray organization and have someone like Sir T representing it. Typically when you represent a company or product you are usually always on PR control and trying to represent with the best intentions and treat people with respect, but that is a far cry from where this thread has gone. No one else involved is representing anything except themselves and are entitled to their thoughts and opinions.
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Originally Posted by nightflier
Well that makes sense in a sick kind of way, after all this is just "entertainment" to you. I suppose you don't have better things to do, but most of us have lives outside of this forum.
Yes this is entertainment. And you are like a rat in a cats mouth, just fun to toy with.
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It's amazing how stubborn you are. At every turn you insist on debating every last point until everyone is sick of your hairsplitting. I categorically disagree with everyone of your counterarguments, but I really want to spare everyone here the irritation of reading through pointless details. So I'm just going to focus on a couple. Your selective picking at them does not change the fact that your conclusions are still wrong.
I am stubborn. You still believe that if a ship goes down with a shipment of HD DVD or Bluray players, all of a sudden the price of the players automatically goes up. Has that ever happened in history, no, so where in the hell did you get that from? Your bum?
You believe that if a replication facility get's damaged to a point its unuseable, that all of a sudden HD disc price goes up. Has that ever happened in history, no, so where did you get that from? Your bum as well? So don't give me this crap about being stubborn, your arguement isn't compelling, has no history or context.
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I'll ignore the doublespeak double negative, here, since I presume you meant to say "I didn't say that a major event would have NO impact." That aside, you did say that exactly. Shall I quote you? How about this one: "There is no evidence that at all of a negative impact." Poor English aside, I think that's pretty clear. Or how about this one: "There is no evidence that we have seen so far that ties what happen in one place, affecting everywhere when it comes to sales of video media." Again, some doublespeak there, but I'm pretty sure you meant to say that there was no impact. I could quote some more, but these were the most doublespeak-ish, so I thought I would point them out. So that has been your mantra for a few pages, now. None, zilch, nada.
I do not need your analysis on my english, what I need from you is a precedent that advances your theories. When you can supply it, this debate is over. As long as you just thow **** against the wall, I am going to hose it off. cool?
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Oh, so now you do want to talk about degrees, estimates, and all that fuzzy stuff you didn't like before. I guess when your position is untenable, then you waffle a bit. How convenient. My point was that it had an impact, yours that it had none, and now you're admitting that it could have some. Are you coming around to my side?
No I am not coming to your side, your side has no precedence and therefore no validity. If you state it had an impact, where is your proof? You have had 11 pages to put it out there. I said if it had some impact, I didn't see it, nor was it reported as such.
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I don't need anymore examples - you'll probably trash them anyway. I'm talking about a very unique situation: this holiday season. Wait, let me say that a little louder: THIS HOLIDAY SEASON. Now since you agree that political events have some impact (or do we need to go back to that one too?), there is the possibility that something could affect this format war. Now, you've had plenty of mileage to make this more than it is. I'm saying the possibility is there - I'm not saying it will happen. You would love that, I'm sure. All I'm saying is that this holiday season is a unique situation for this format war because we have a trigger-happy government, a fragile economy, and a format war that represents an extremely marginal portion of the market (more on that later).
Nightflier just because you, in your mind think I agreed doesn't mean I did. I have not agreed with one thing you have advance, that is why we are both still here. I have stated this before in this thread, the POSSIBILITY has always existed, the reality is it hasn't happened. Therefore you have no precedence to advance this arguement. If you can site me one example of political or natural disasters affecting the release and sale of any video product, then you have a precedent to hang your arguement on. You have yet to state any precedence.
Isn't it possible that the world could come to an end tomorrow? Does that stop you from making plans for tomorrow? I would think not, but then you may.
Clinton had impeachment hearing that went on for months. Did people stop buying DVD players and disc while it was going on? No. Only you think about world affairs while shopping for DVD's.
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How can you know if it's not over. How can you predict what this upsurge will turn into? You may be in bed with the "insiders" but they don't know either. Oh, yes your precious stats - guess what, they are all in the past. No guarantee that they apply to the future. Now Terence, this is pretty basic stuff. You're presuming to have a crystal ball, here. You want everyone here to think that somehow you can read the future. Fantasy is what that is. Interestingly, this is coming from someone who only wants facts and figures.
It over because it never started. The upsurge in sales of HD DVD players is a North American phenomina. World wide HD DVD is getting soundly trounced by Bluray according to NDP figures. This battle is worldwide not only in America. So much for your arguement about believing spin. You are just as gulible as meathead.
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Now here's a biggy. I want to emphasize it, because only a complete boob would still support it's premise:
Actually only a boob would think that HD players have pricing structures simular to oil and gas. You know, world events happen, and the price of the player goes up. Did this ever happen with DVD? Nope, where did you get this crap?
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Completely inaccurate and misleading. BR & HDDVD are very much competing with DVD. As long as I can walk into a store and buy either a BR/HDDVD or a DVD of the same movie, than they are competing. Oh, I'm sorry, because the OP didn't mention this, we need to believe that they are not competing? What kind of cockamamie logic is that? They are in the store right next to each other, right? I can buy either one, right? So how are they not competing. Explain that one to us, oh great sage....
Until there is a victor in the HD format wars, there can be no competition against the DVD. DVD is not HD, and HD is not DVD. Nobody who understands this format war is comparing the sales of DVD to HD media. If you own a HD movie player and your choice was between the DVD and the HD disc of the same title, you are going to get the HD disc if you want the best picture and sound. If you don't care about PQ and AQ, you most likely will not buy a HD movie player in the first place. Just because they are next to each other doesn't mean they are in direct competition with one another. When there is one HD disc format, then the competition is between whatever HD format and the DVD. Right now it is between the two competiting HD disc formats.
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Huh? Some more of your doublespeak logic? Maybe DVD sales are shrinking because the movies are all formulaic and boring (Disney/Pixar is a good example).
Maybe Disney/Pixar movies are not marketed to anal retentive over analyzing individuals. Maybe that is why you don't enjoy them.
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Or maybe people are downloading them to their iPods? Maybe VOD is having an impact. Fact is, there's no way to know. You're speculating, guessing, and extrapolating. Whatever your intelligence (and I'm sure you think it's impressive), it does not allow you to know the whole market. As a matter of fact, you would have to incorporate some unknowns and those are outside of this debate, right? Well which is it? You can't have it both ways.
NDP spells out revenue from downloads very clearly. It has been flat since mid 2006. So it is not possible that VOD are eating into DVD sales. Revenue that is not increasing can't eat into anything. DVD sales are slowing because they are running out of catalog titles to release. The predominate releases now are television shows, and a few new release movies. Clearly the public is not interested in paying for old television programs on disc in mass, that is why sales are falling. Not because of VOD, not because of Burma, North Korea, or Putin reading Condolezza Rice for 8 minutes.
Once again clipwinged creature. Give up the personal analysis, better yet, give up analysis all together. You are a complete failure on this, and your tries do not suit you well.
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That was what, 10-15 years ago? How is that relevant? The industry, technology, and distribution methods were completely different back then. This is nonsense and amounts to nothing more than your own petty FUD.
Low light, The movie Industry hasn't changed much since the introduction of the DVD. Oh but you wouldn't know that because you don't know the industry. If you worked in it like I do, you would know that not much has changed except the formats that playback the movies. The distribution of players and disc have not changed much at all. It takes replication lines to make discs, production lines to make players, and a distribution system to get it to the public. Just like it did for VHS, Laserdisc, DVD, and now HD DVD and Bluray. So who is spreading FUD??
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I never said that they were "irrelevant." Where do you get this lie. You are just flat out lying, now. It's disingenuous and considering your vaulted reputation here, almost insulting. By the way, you also advanced factory visits, and your inside sources with their biased opinions to back your own argument. Don't even try and stand there and tell us that you've been relying only on your fancy numbers. You're lying again. That's a bad thing to do, little Terrence.
When the arguement requires numbers, that is what you get NDP figures. When the arguement steers towards other aspects of the formats, inside sources come in handy. This sound to me like you are crying like a damn baby because you have no access to the information I have. You are so format stupid that you have to post a host of question because you know so little about anything related to the movie industry. You call me stubborn, but neglect to mention that you don't really know as much as you are trying to fluff here. You overbloated ego won't let your bankrupt mind understand that you know much to little about the issue to put forth an intelligent debate with precedence. So spare me your verbalrectumbule and petulant drama.
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So let me get this straight, 'cause this one's a doosie. People need to buy into the BR format because if they don't it is doomed? So are you saying that as it stands right now, the format is doomed? Then why should they buy in? Why buy into a format that is so marginal that it only represents a tiny percent of the movie market? Because that will halp it survive? I mean talk about fanboyism! Now we know why you're so zealous about getting people to buy in. If they don't you'll be proven wrong.
Nightflier, you are much dumber than I thought man. I didn't say that people need to buy bluray(do you see what arguementive filters get you), I said that if people don't support HD on disc, the window of oportunity will close just like it did for high resolution audio. Please tell me you get this now, and if you are slow, I will repeat it again. Every format was marginal early in its life. The DVD was marginal to VHS, the laserdisc was marginal to DVD and VHS, and SACD and DVD-A were marginal to CD. CD was marginal to vinyl. However people support the marginal formats, and they weren't marginal as time progress. Every format has to start somewhere, but your way of thinking would keep us stuck in analog. Just because you have cold feet doesn't mean that everyone should listen to you. As I have said before, you are a overanalyzing drone, so bog down by his own overanalysis and dogma, and is incapable of making an intelligent decision about either format. Not to mention you are undereducated as well. No wonder you choose not to buy into either.
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That's kind of like a certain public figure (that shall remain nameless) telling people to go buy Hummers after 9/11 - it's good for GM, my friends at Texaco, and will help you forget why you shouldn't be buying a car you won't be able to afford in a few years. I'm telling you, you're starting to look like that little imp from Texas more and more.
So OK everybody: please buy a BR player so that little Terrence is vindicated! It's good for BR and it's good for Lil' T.
Wow, that's precious.
These words are indicative of the kind of intelligence I have to debate. I sure have a heavy cross to bear on this one.
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Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
I can only help but think one thing....
I would be embarrassed to be part of the Blu-ray organization and have someone like Sir T representing it. Typically when you represent a company or product you are usually always on PR control and trying to represent with the best intentions and treat people with respect, but that is a far cry from where this thread has gone. No one else involved is representing anything except themselves and are entitled to their thoughts and opinions.
LJ is right, I have a stalker on my hands. If you want respect, you have to give it. And based on your doings around here, you deserve NOT to be respected. Now trolly off and stalk somebody else, or just get a life. Okay? Why don't you go view Dracula so you have something to actually talk about other than people on this site. Its about audio, not personalities. Audioreview anyone?
Lexmark3200? I know this is you, you are not fooling anyone. LOLOL
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
LJ is right, I have a stalker on my hands. If you want respect, you have to give it. And based on your doings around here, you deserve NOT to be respected. Now trolly off and stalk somebody else, or just get a life. Okay? Why don't you go view Dracula so you have something to actually talk about other than people on this site. Its about audio, not personalities. Audioreview anyone?
I don't give respect to those who are too arrogant to admit their own shortcomings, plus they prey on the weaknesses of others and try to convert them to their opinions.
I get plenty of respect from other members around here and have contributed quite a lot to this site, maybe you should check out some of my 4,000+ posts around here and see for yourself instead of judging on just a few posts within this thread.
I realize that you have been away for awhile from this site and I remember when you were here before...you were a prick then and you haven't changed since. I'm not the only one that thinks this either.
If you want to represent Blu-ray you might want to represent them with a better attitude than the one you give off.
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Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
I don't give respect to those who are too arrogant to admit their own shortcomings, plus they prey on the weaknesses of others and try to convert them to their opinions.
I get plenty of respect from other members around here and have contributed quite a lot to this site, maybe you should check out some of my 4,000+ posts around here and see for yourself instead of judging on just a few posts within this thread.
I realize that you have been away for awhile from this site and I remember when you were here before...you were a prick then and you haven't changed since. I'm not the only one that thinks this either.
If you want to represent Blu-ray you might want to represent them with a better attitude than the one you give off.
This is passive/agressive crap AGAIN!! You are becoming way to emotional here, and that is boring to me. You are dismissed......that is all. Pretty consistant behavior I must admit.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
This is passive/agressive crap AGAIN!! You are becoming way to emotional here, and that is boring to me. You are dismissed......that is all. Pretty consistant behavior I must admit.
You think that will get rid of him? Good luck.
At least hes not bugging me anymore.
As for "red push" the fact that you havent heard of this is worrisome as you appear to know a little about video display.
Truth is most sets from most manufacturers have some degree of red push, and calibration will only minimize the tendency. Tosh is the worst.
Sony is the most accurate for color and thats why I prefer the brand.
A lot of the "new" displays arent as bad, hope this is a trend, and red push will be left
in the graveyard with the CRT:1:
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You have spent more than that just being a fanboy on this thread.
And now that its out that you are a paid shill for BR, it makes even more sense why you spend so much time replying.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Now if you are American, this ought to be as simple as yes or no. Anything more, and somebody has started the spin cycle.
Can the HD DVD drive play a disc by itself without being connected to the XBOX, and show the video up on the screen?
Can the XBOX play a HD DVD disc without the HD DVD drive?
And you apparently have forgotten either how to read, or your just too stupid to remeber when I answered you the first time on response #247
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Originally Posted by Groundbeef
I'll only give you 1/2 a point. Technically it wouldn't qualify as a "standalone" in the aspect that it doesn't work without either an xbox 360 or a vista PC with the correct software.
But unfortunatly for you, the door doesn't work the same way for the PS3. Each player cannot be counted as a "movie" player simply because it has the capablity to playback BR movies.
For example, my phone and millions like it have the CAPABLITY of being a fairly decent GPS navigator (I've actually used the program in Seattle and it worked very well). But when market share for GPS navigation systems is divied up, do you think the industry gives equal play to TomTom and Garvin, as it does to say SprintPCS, or Verizon? No I don't think so. Just because something has the POTENTIAL doesn't make it so. The TomTom, and Garvin systems are DEDICATED systems. The cell phone is MULTIPURPOSE.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Ummm...you contradicted it yourself Didn't you say
Unlike the dual-purpose PS3, where it is very difficult to determine the actual usage (either movie/game).
Once again groundbeefytype, how on one side of your mouth do you say this, and then turn around a put a number to it? You can't. So since you can't determine the usage, then you cannot put a percentage on an unknown. Right? Good lordy yah, the messenger done fell on his own sword!!
Yep, I did say it. I also asked if you had any other numbers suggesting higher usage rates for the PS3 as a BR player. Still waiting for you to stop trying to wiggle away, and answer that one. I didn't say it would be easy, just wondering. It should be fairly easy for an idustry insider such as yourself to get it no?
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
But didn't you say the PS3 couldn't do it at all. I believe the same PS3 sold in Australia is the same PS3 sold to me. Why would Sony be offering a HD Download service if the PS3 couldn't do HD downloads? Doesn't seem to add up here.
No, its not the same PS3. Yours doesn't play PAL for starters. And 2nd, the IPTV service in Australia/New Zealand isn't compatible with ASTC, or Digital Broadcasts in the US. So, technically, its different. It doesn't add up for you, because again, you suck in math, and debate.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Oh, you want to completely diss the PS3, but don't want to talk about the problems of the 360. How convient(in his best church lady voice). And you complain about BR player owners having to wait for a firmware upgrade disc. They can still watch movies at least. How about doing without their machine while they wait for another, no bluray player owner has to go through that.
Talk about what? You wait 12 pages to drop it like its Mana from Heaven for BR. It's got nothing to do with anything that has been discussed as of yet. But if you want to hear it, ok. MS could have done more. But the problem has been addressed, and a repair program has been established. Since you don't care about the gaming side, I'll give you a pass on reading the boards. It's a non-issue as far as game retailers are concerned, sales have not dipped in light of the issue. Players are happy the machines are being repaired, and complaints have fallen off in the last few months as the broken are replaced with the new.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Ummm....there is nothing in that opinion piece that mentions anything about Sony saying that every PS3 owner was buying bluray discs. This is an opinion piece, not a fact sheet. Want to try this one more time?
Right, and when Sony promised studios that after the launch there would be "millions" of new BR players on the market they probably only meant that say 1-100 would ever BUY a movie. Yeah, thats what they meant.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Unfortunately your links don't mention what you say they do. At IFA 2007 all of the exclusive studio said before a live audience they were not paid any money or offered any incentives to support bluray. Can Paramount, Dreamworks, or Universal say the same. Nope, because we already know that they are getting PAID to support HD DVD.
Remeber now, we are talking money here. These are "insiders" and not to be trusted with financial #'s. Just how is BR giving away movies, and promoting movies without any financial consideration given to studios? And why is the EU investigating BR for monopolistic behavior as reported by the WSJ. (Or is that a shill rag you don't support?)
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
No, after watching you drop hints about all the cash you've blown on equipment and movies I didn't figure you for the clearance shopper.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....c=abcat0700000
Right now the 60 GB is going for $499 (until replaced by the 40GB). The 80GB is $599.
So, infact tightwad, you did get the less expensive machine. Or should I polish up the dance floor, and wait for you to tapdance around and "prove" that $499 is actually MORE expensive than $599.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Okay, you open the door, I'm walkin in. Issue one, HD DVD is not the HD format of tomorrow, its the filler of today. The format is already getting maxed out to the point that it cannot support extra's, the movie, and lossless tracks on a 30GB disc. Transformers, one of the biggest releases of the year for Paramount, and it has no lossless track because there was no room for it.
Is it smaller? No question. Will the above issues be a problem in the future for HD-DVD? Probably, but thats not really the issue. Unless BR can hammer their costs down, its kinda a wash. I mean, ITunes isn't lossless, but you can't argue with their success. YOU might think its rubbish, but for millions of others, its great. So for the audiophiles, it may be an issue. For the greater public...not so much.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Well, my nothing doesn't overheat, scratch discs, require an external drive to play HD movies, or has a manufacturer who was in denial of the problems for almost two years.
You may go back to consuming cowburgers....
No, your right, your "nothing" does not do the above issues. What it does do is, delay game dates because programmers cannot program for it. I realize YOU personally don't care, but a lot of gamers do. And it is a GAME machine. What it also does is force consumers who don't WANT a HD movie player to buy one, at a SKY HIGH premium. What it does is promise technology that doesn't materialize (movie d/l in the states....ummm yeah, were "working" on it....) What it does is make useless 99.99% of all universal remotes because its BlueTooth, not IR.
And thanks for the tip on the burgers....mmmmmmm I'll have mine well, with 2 slices of cheese...mmmmmm
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What arrogance sounds like...
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Yes this is entertainment. And you are like a rat in a cats mouth, just fun to toy with....
I am stubborn....
...so where in the hell did you get that from? Your bum? ...where did you get that from? Your bum as well?
If you're trying to endear yourself by using the word bum, I can assure you it's not working...
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You are just as gulible as meathead....
...Once again clipwinged creature. Give up the personal analysis, better yet, give up analysis all together. You are a complete failure on this, and your tries do not suit you well.
...Low light, The movie Industry hasn't changed much since the introduction of the DVD. Oh but you wouldn't know that because you don't know the industry. If you worked in it like I do, you would know that...
This sound to me like you are crying like a damn baby because you have no access to the information I have.
...you don't really know as much as you are trying to fluff here.
...You overbloated ego won't let your bankrupt mind understand that you know much to little about the issue to put forth an intelligent debate with precedence.
...spare me your verbalrectumbule and petulant drama.
You know if you wan to sound smart, you should probably not invent multisyllabic words like "verbalrectumbule," and you should probably use correct grammar too. Typos are one think but bad grammar has nothing to do with typos, it's evidence of an impoverished mind. LOL.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
You are so format stupid that you have to post a host of question because you know so little about anything related to the movie industry.
...you are much dumber than I thought, man.
...you are a overanalyzing drone, so bog down by his own overanalysis and dogma, and is incapable of making an intelligent decision...
...are not marketed to anal retentive over analyzing individuals. Maybe that is why you don't enjoy them.
...These words are indicative of the kind of intelligence I have to debate. I sure have a heavy cross to bear on this one.
...Not to mention you are undereducated as well.
Well, you shouldn't go blabbering on about how much smarter you are when you can't spell gulible, overanalysis, phenomina, arguement, simular, competiting, and even english. Now I can accept a few typos, but you've got a style all your own I suppose. And what the heck is verbalrectumbule anyhow? LMAO.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I do not need your analysis on my english...As long as you just thow **** against the wall, I am going to hose it off. cool?
Well, when you started saying how undereducated I was, I thought it was only fair to point out your use of english. I'm not throwing it against the wall, it's actually all over your face, and I'm trying to let you know it. You're just making a fool of yourself here little Terrence. It's actually pretty funny. LSHMBH.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I have stated this before in this thread, the POSSIBILITY has always existed, the reality is it hasn't happened.
You never said that a possibility existed. You said there was no possibility. Remember little Terrence, "a possibility" automatically implies some uncertainty, a gray area, maybe even some dreaded unknown qualities. You're not willing to deal in those. Don't twist this around and try to convince us that you said something you didn't.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Clinton had impeachment hearing that went on for months. Did people stop buying DVD players and disc while it was going on? No.
I hardly think a stain on a dress qualifies as a major world event. Unless you're one of those types that likes to make mountains out of mole hills - there's a place for people like that: the oval office.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
It over because it never started. The upsurge in sales of HD DVD players is a North American phenomina. World wide HD DVD is getting soundly trounced by Bluray according to NDP figures. This battle is worldwide not only in America.
Well, it's only worldwide when it suits your argument - worldwide means more uncertainty (like piracy, gray market, second-hand sales, other technologies, the list goes on). It's quaint how you only go there when it supports your claims. All that aside, this phenomina is still an upsurge here in the US. You didn't see that upsurge coming did you, oh wise (-cracking) one? Your precious stats certainly didn't clue you in, did they? Your industry insiders that you're sleeping with (uh, I mean that you're "in bed" with) didn't warn you, did they? Last month's NDP figures weren't of any use there either, were they? No amount of FUD from you is going to change the fact that nobody, not even you, knows where this is headed.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Nobody who understands this format war is comparing the sales of DVD to HD media.
Well maybe that's true for all the BR fanboys like yourself, and maybe they should, because they certainly don't have a clue about what's really happening. The fact is that BR and HDDVD are together, absolutely marginal. It's a blip as a percentage of sales. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. It's the one fact that everybody wants to ignore. It's the proverbial white elephant in the room.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
If you own a HD movie player and your choice was between the DVD and the HD disc of the same title, you are going to get the HD disc if you want the best picture and sound....Just because they are next to each other doesn't mean they are in direct competition with one another.
Little Terrence, before you go spouting such nonsense, you should really consider the fact that your black and white logic is grade-school level and, well, logic is taught in college (where they also teach how to write better). Every HD player can play standard DVDs, right? So your typical consumer is still going to buy DVDs to watch on the HD player, especially if they don't care so much about quality or they don't have the fancy system to support the better picture & sound. So let's stop dancing around this and agree that BR/HDDVD is definitely competing with standard DVD.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Maybe Disney/Pixar movies are not marketed to anal retentive over analyzing individuals
Just about every Disney/Pixar movie that has come out from Mulan to Cars has had just about the same plot line. It has nothing to do with over-analysis, either; anyone who thinks about this just a bit can see it (well, maybe not you, but you're special that way). My guess is that this plot line has become so routine and boring that people are getting turned off by it. By the way, it's a friggin' animation, what is really the point of a 1080p cartoon? I'm sure 480p is just as exciting to the average 5-year old.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
NDP spells out revenue from downloads very clearly. It has been flat since mid 2006. So it is not possible that VOD are eating into DVD sales. Revenue that is not increasing can't eat into anything. DVD sales are slowing because they are running out of catalog titles to release. The predominate releases now are television shows, and a few new release movies. Clearly the public is not interested in paying for old television programs on disc in mass, that is why sales are falling.
No, again you are extrapolating from the numbers - you are guessing. It could just as well be that sales of TV shows on DVD are falling because they can be downloaded for free. No need to pay for them. And this is really where your needle needs to get unstuck. NDP is only tracking sales. What is significant is how much VOD is being ordered, both free and for a fee - because all these downloads keep the consuming public busy watching something else besides BR/HDDVD.
You are so friggin' obsessed with sales figures that you are completely dismissing everything else out there. That's tunnel vision - and that's what a few people here have been trying to explain to you - you are marred by your own tunnel vision. For example, you say that DVD sales are down, but you're completely ignoring the fact that DVD pirating is up. How much? Well for that we'd have to talk about estimates, since it's not possible to know this. And how sound are your VOD figures if you don't include free VOD downloads?
Even your HD figures don't include freebies, returns, coupons, and the huge trade in second-hand movies on eBay, Amazon, and other sites like it. Right now there are 2652 BR disks on sale on eBay and 1415 HDDVDs. You'll probably try to convince everybody here that this is solid proof that BR is winning, but with the same logic you could argue that more people are trying to get rid of their BR disks. After all, there are also 33 second hand BR disk players on sale and 9 HDDVD players, so there are 33 people trying to dump their BR players while only 9 are trying to dump their HDDVD players. The fact is, the numbers look great on paper, but they are all estimates. Let me repeat that: THEY ARE ALL ESTIMATES.
The simple fact is you don't know that much about this at all. You're only speculating. And yes, you want BR to win because you can't bear the thought that you would be proven wrong. I guess this has become your crusade and that's why you have such a cross to bear.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Low light, The movie Industry hasn't changed much since the introduction of the DVD.
No, I think you're the one who's the dim bulb in the room if you think things have not changed in the last two decades. Ever heard of the Internet? And I'm not just talking about movie downloads, even though they obviously are having an impact, but I'm also talking about online distribution and sales. To stand here and say that this format war will unfold at the same rate as the VHS/DIVx format war or any other past format war, is absolutely ignorant. I think you're the Luddite here who's still spinning those old records - Rick Springfield has long ago left the building... I guess the reason you nostalgically hark back to the 80's for your examples is because that is when you left school and decided to read only what you like. Go get an education, already.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
When the arguement requires numbers, that is what you get NDP figures. When the arguement steers towards other aspects of the formats, inside sources come in handy.
Let me rephrase that for you: "When the discussion doesn't go my way, I change the debate to suit my own argument." ...And when I can't dig myself out of my own hole I invent words and use garmaticaly incorret doublespeak make to me sound smarts.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I didn't say that people need to buy bluray
Uh, yes you did. You said that if they were going to buy HDM they should buy BR. It's right there on pp5-7 of this thread. And two posts ago you said "If people do what [I] say [ie. wait top make a purchase], then HDM on disc is doomed." Well we all know your favorite HDM is BR, so let's not mince words, you are telling people to buy BR, in your doublespeak-ish way
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Every format was marginal early in its life. The DVD was marginal to VHS, the laserdisc was marginal to DVD and VHS, and SACD and DVD-A were marginal to CD. CD was marginal to vinyl. However people support the marginal formats, and they weren't marginal as time progress. Every format has to start somewhere
You're conveniently neglecting to mention that whenever there is a format war, those who bought into the format that lost, also ended up with a brick, or at least a marginalized one, and a whole collection of 8-Tracks, Betamax, DIVx, DVD-A, and soon BR or HDDVD media that has been marginalized. Consumers have a right not to buy and they should not be lulled by the likes of you into a false sense of security about the format they should choose. Not only doesn't it make sense to bet on a 2-1 lead in this industry, but if the market segment where this 2-1 lead is just 5% or less of the whole market, by all means, wait it out.
And don't even start about the technical superiority of BR over HDDVD. Betamax was superior to VHS, Laserdisk was superior to VHS, there are plenty of examples in the movie industry as well as in many other industries (computer hardware) where the technologically superior product did not win out.
Just because telling people to wait calls your predictions, guesses, and prognostications into question, does not mean people shouldn't wait. Sorry, was that too big a word for you, little Terrence? Well look it up. It's about time you learned what a dictionary is.
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
No wonder you choose not to buy into either.
No I'm not choosing "to buy into either." I'm waiting it out. Sorry if that doesn't suit your wallet.
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So did he cross the border or what?
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Originally Posted by nightflier
If you're trying to endear yourself by using the word bum, I can assure you it's not working...
You know if you wan to sound smart, you should probably not invent multisyllabic words like "verbalrectumbule," and you should probably use correct grammar too. Typos are one think but bad grammar has nothing to do with typos, it's evidence of an impoverished mind. LOL.
Well, you shouldn't go blabbering on about how much smarter you are when you can't spell gulible, overanalysis, phenomina, arguement, simular, competiting, and even english. Now I can accept a few typos, but you've got a style all your own I suppose. And what the heck is verbalrectumbule anyhow? LMAO.
Well, when you started saying how undereducated I was, I thought it was only fair to point out your use of english. I'm not throwing it against the wall, it's actually all over your face, and I'm trying to let you know it. You're just making a fool of yourself here little Terrence. It's actually pretty funny. LSHMBH.
You never said that a possibility existed. You said there was no possibility. Remember little Terrence, "a possibility" automatically implies some uncertainty, a gray area, maybe even some dreaded unknown qualities. You're not willing to deal in those. Don't twist this around and try to convince us that you said something you didn't.
I hardly think a stain on a dress qualifies as a major world event. Unless you're one of those types that likes to make mountains out of mole hills - there's a place for people like that: the oval office.
Well, it's only worldwide when it suits your argument - worldwide means more uncertainty (like piracy, gray market, second-hand sales, other technologies, the list goes on). It's quaint how you only go there when it supports your claims. All that aside, this phenomina is still an upsurge here in the US. You didn't see that upsurge coming did you, oh wise (-cracking) one? Your precious stats certainly didn't clue you in, did they? Your industry insiders that you're sleeping with (uh, I mean that you're "in bed" with) didn't warn you, did they? Last month's NDP figures weren't of any use there either, were they? No amount of FUD from you is going to change the fact that nobody, not even you, knows where this is headed.
Well maybe that's true for all the BR fanboys like yourself, and maybe they should, because they certainly don't have a clue about what's really happening. The fact is that BR and HDDVD are together, absolutely marginal. It's a blip as a percentage of sales. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. It's the one fact that everybody wants to ignore. It's the proverbial white elephant in the room.
Little Terrence, before you go spouting such nonsense, you should really consider the fact that your black and white logic is grade-school level and, well, logic is taught in college (where they also teach how to write better). Every HD player can play standard DVDs, right? So your typical consumer is still going to buy DVDs to watch on the HD player, especially if they don't care so much about quality or they don't have the fancy system to support the better picture & sound. So let's stop dancing around this and agree that BR/HDDVD is definitely competing with standard DVD.
Just about every Disney/Pixar movie that has come out from Mulan to Cars has had just about the same plot line. It has nothing to do with over-analysis, either; anyone who thinks about this just a bit can see it (well, maybe not you, but you're special that way). My guess is that this plot line has become so routine and boring that people are getting turned off by it. By the way, it's a friggin' animation, what is really the point of a 1080p cartoon? I'm sure 480p is just as exciting to the average 5-year old.
No, again you are extrapolating from the numbers - you are guessing. It could just as well be that sales of TV shows on DVD are falling because they can be downloaded for free. No need to pay for them. And this is really where your needle needs to get unstuck. NDP is only tracking sales. What is significant is how much VOD is being ordered, both free and for a fee - because all these downloads keep the consuming public busy watching something else besides BR/HDDVD.
You are so friggin' obsessed with sales figures that you are completely dismissing everything else out there. That's tunnel vision - and that's what a few people here have been trying to explain to you - you are marred by your own tunnel vision. For example, you say that DVD sales are down, but you're completely ignoring the fact that DVD pirating is up. How much? Well for that we'd have to talk about estimates, since it's not possible to know this. And how sound are your VOD figures if you don't include free VOD downloads?
Even your HD figures don't include freebies, returns, coupons, and the huge trade in second-hand movies on eBay, Amazon, and other sites like it. Right now there are 2652 BR disks on sale on eBay and 1415 HDDVDs. You'll probably try to convince everybody here that this is solid proof that BR is winning, but with the same logic you could argue that more people are trying to get rid of their BR disks. After all, there are also 33 second hand BR disk players on sale and 9 HDDVD players, so there are 33 people trying to dump their BR players while only 9 are trying to dump their HDDVD players. The fact is, the numbers look great on paper, but they are all estimates. Let me repeat that: THEY ARE ALL ESTIMATES.
The simple fact is you don't know that much about this at all. You're only speculating. And yes, you want BR to win because you can't bear the thought that you would be proven wrong. I guess this has become your crusade and that's why you have such a cross to bear.
No, I think you're the one who's the dim bulb in the room if you think things have not changed in the last two decades. Ever heard of the Internet? And I'm not just talking about movie downloads, even though they obviously are having an impact, but I'm also talking about online distribution and sales. To stand here and say that this format war will unfold at the same rate as the VHS/DIVx format war or any other past format war, is absolutely ignorant. I think you're the Luddite here who's still spinning those old records - Rick Springfield has long ago left the building... I guess the reason you nostalgically hark back to the 80's for your examples is because that is when you left school and decided to read only what you like. Go get an education, already.
Let me rephrase that for you: "When the discussion doesn't go my way, I change the debate to suit my own argument." ...And when I can't dig myself out of my own hole I invent words and use garmaticaly incorret doublespeak make to me sound smarts.
Uh, yes you did. You said that if they were going to buy HDM they should buy BR. It's right there on pp5-7 of this thread. And two posts ago you said "If people do what [I] say [ie. wait top make a purchase], then HDM on disc is doomed." Well we all know your favorite HDM is BR, so let's not mince words, you are telling people to buy BR, in your doublespeak-ish way
You're conveniently neglecting to mention that whenever there is a format war, those who bought into the format that lost, also ended up with a brick, or at least a marginalized one, and a whole collection of 8-Tracks, Betamax, DIVx, DVD-A, and soon BR or HDDVD media that has been marginalized. Consumers have a right not to buy and they should not be lulled by the likes of you into a false sense of security about the format they should choose. Not only doesn't it make sense to bet on a 2-1 lead in this industry, but if the market segment where this 2-1 lead is just 5% or less of the whole market, by all means, wait it out.
And don't even start about the technical superiority of BR over HDDVD. Betamax was superior to VHS, Laserdisk was superior to VHS, there are plenty of examples in the movie industry as well as in many other industries (computer hardware) where the technologically superior product did not win out.
Just because telling people to wait calls your predictions, guesses, and prognostications into question, does not mean people shouldn't wait. Sorry, was that too big a word for you, little Terrence? Well look it up. It's about time you learned what a dictionary is.
No I'm not choosing "to buy into either." I'm waiting it out. Sorry if that doesn't suit your wallet.
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Originally Posted by Groundbeef
And now that its out that you are a paid shill for BR, it makes even more sense why you spend so much time replying.
Okay, on one thread you call me a HD DVD fanboy, on this one I am a BR paid shill. What is it? Prove I am a paid shill. Don't just say it, prove it.
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And you apparently have forgotten either how to read, or your just too stupid to remeber when I answered you the first time on response #247
Then why are you continuing to advance the premise that the HD DVD drive is a standalone? It wasn't when it was introduced, it isn't now, and it won't be tomorrow.
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And then you turned around and contridicted yourself by claiming because of its intent of use, its a standalone. What is it? Make up your mind.
This was your statement, not mine. I said because its a all in one, it qualifies as a standalone. No external drive needed, plug and play.
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But unfortunatly for you, the door doesn't work the same way for the PS3. Each player cannot be counted as a "movie" player simply because it has the capablity to playback BR movies.
Absolutely it can. Once again if it is self contained(according to the definition) then it is indeed a standalone. Now you said you are America right? Do we just go and change the definition of our words at will? I don't think so. Intent does not play a part in the definition of standalone. I have given you three links to the definition, so by now you should get it.
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For example, my phone and millions like it have the CAPABLITY of being a fairly decent GPS navigator (I've actually used the program in Seattle and it worked very well). But when market share for GPS navigation systems is divied up, do you think the industry gives equal play to TomTom and Garvin, as it does to say SprintPCS, or Verizon? No I don't think so. Just because something has the POTENTIAL doesn't make it so. The TomTom, and Garvin systems are DEDICATED systems. The cell phone is MULTIPURPOSE.
Cell phones are not HD players are they? Cell phones can't play HD movies can they? Cell phones don't do lossless audio do they? And you know what, you cannot make a call on a HD player. Apples and oranges comparison
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Yep, I did say it. I also asked if you had any other numbers suggesting higher usage rates for the PS3 as a BR player. Still waiting for you to stop trying to wiggle away, and answer that one. I didn't say it would be easy, just wondering. It should be fairly easy for an idustry insider such as yourself to get it no?
Geeze meatsock. If there is no way to determine usage, then NO NUMBER can be placed on usage. None, zero, zilch. I didn't suggest it was higher or lower, I said NO NUMBER CAN BE PLACED ON USAGE. I hope you understand this now.
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No, its not the same PS3. Yours doesn't play PAL for starters. And 2nd, the IPTV service in Australia/New Zealand isn't compatible with ASTC, or Digital Broadcasts in the US. So, technically, its different. It doesn't add up for you, because again, you suck in math, and debate.
So their players have different video decoders. Aside from this, is the player fundamentally different? No it is not. If it can do it, so can mine if we had a compatible service that offered it.
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Talk about what? You wait 12 pages to drop it like its Mana from Heaven for BR. It's got nothing to do with anything that has been discussed as of yet. But if you want to hear it, ok. MS could have done more. But the problem has been addressed, and a repair program has been established. Since you don't care about the gaming side, I'll give you a pass on reading the boards. It's a non-issue as far as game retailers are concerned, sales have not dipped in light of the issue. Players are happy the machines are being repaired, and complaints have fallen off in the last few months as the broken are replaced with the new.
So you open the door by dissing the PS3, and now you want to close it by smoothing over 1 billion dollars worth of damage to its consumers. Some non issue.
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Right, and when Sony promised studios that after the launch there would be "millions" of new BR players on the market they probably only meant that say 1-100 would ever BUY a movie. Yeah, thats what they meant.
Umm, so now your read minds. LOL, you can even read plain english man. LOL. Don't be mad at the success of bluray baby, it ain't that serious. Can you show me a link that Sony made such a promise? Cause I am going to tell ya, I was there when they made the BR presentation at my studio, and they made no such claim. The did say they were going to put a bluray drive in every machine, and that would give bluray a base to launch from. And by the way, there are millions of new bluray players out there. 2.2 million in North America alone. If 1-100 bought a movie, then bluray would still be kicking HD DVD collective butts like it is now.
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Remeber now, we are talking money here. These are "insiders" and not to be trusted with financial #'s. Just how is BR giving away movies, and promoting movies without any financial consideration given to studios? And why is the EU investigating BR for monopolistic behavior as reported by the WSJ. (Or is that a shill rag you don't support?)
I guess the BDA is giving the discs away just like HD DVD PG is. You forgot to mention that.
Umm, they are investigating Toshiba and Microsoft as well. And it is not monopolistic behavior, its the exclusive studio agreements that lead to anti-competitiveness.
http://www.opticaldisc-systems.com/J...ws&tech-10.htm
http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/28/e...censing-terms/
Now tell the whole story. Both are being investigated, and it is not official that an investigation will even take place. Have you heard anything further since this announcement? No, and you probably won't either.
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No, after watching you drop hints about all the cash you've blown on equipment and movies I didn't figure you for the clearance shopper.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....c=abcat0700000
Right now the 60 GB is going for $499 (until replaced by the 40GB). The 80GB is $599
So, infact tightwad, you did get the less expensive machine. Or should I polish up the dance floor, and wait for you to tapdance around and "prove" that $499 is actually MORE expensive than $599.
Wow! When I bought my player, there was no 40 or 80GB player on the market. Only the 60GB was offered, and before that was the $499 20GB model that was discontinued. So my player at the time was the most expensive PS3, and it was discounted.
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Is it smaller? No question. Will the above issues be a problem in the future for HD-DVD? Probably, but thats not really the issue. Unless BR can hammer their costs down, its kinda a wash.
BR does not have to cost the same as HD DVD. HD DVD has to keep cost down because Toshiba does not own a film library, they have to pay for it. So the only way to sell players, is to sell them cheaper than bluray, and pay a studio to support it. Toshiba is selling players at a loss. Bluray manufacturers are not. As you can see, Toshiba left no incentive for other manufacturers to jump in, except below them. By driving down the price so quickly, you leave no room for other manufacturers to make a profit off the players they sell. Not a good long term strategy. Onkyo is suppose to market the most expensive HD DVD player yet released, but there is no release date. And with HD DVD supporter constantly bleeding the cheaper price arguement, I wonder just how well an expensive HD DVD will do. Toshiba's XA2 is not selling nearly as well as the A2, that is for sure. The XA1 didn't sell as well as the A1 either.
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I mean, ITunes isn't lossless, but you can't argue with their success. YOU might think its rubbish, but for millions of others, its great. So for the audiophiles, it may be an issue. For the greater public...not so much.
Sorry, but it is much for movie lovers. They want lossless audio, and there are quite a few HD DVD owners who are quite angry that the big titles Transformers and Shriek 3 will not have it. They complained when King Kong didn't have it.
We have already experienced lossy audio on the DVD. What good is the supposed sucessor to the DVD if it can do no better than DVD in the audio department?
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No, your right, your "nothing" does not do the above issues. What it does do is, delay game dates because programmers cannot program for it. I realize YOU personally don't care, but a lot of gamers do. And it is a GAME machine. What it also does is force consumers who don't WANT a HD movie player to buy one, at a SKY HIGH premium. What it does is promise technology that doesn't materialize (movie d/l in the states....ummm yeah, were "working" on it....) What it does is make useless 99.99% of all universal remotes because its BlueTooth, not IR.
Sorry, if it was a GAME machine, it wouldn't be able to play SACD's, or bluray movies. It would be just a game machine.
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And thanks for the tip on the burgers....mmmmmmm I'll have mine well, with 2 slices of cheese...mmmmmm
Yeah, and you have abviously had too many of them, as the grease is killing your brain cells.
I am pretty much through with you. You are not nearly as fun or interesting to debate with as Nightflier. I want to focus on him, not you. You have not now, nor in the future add anything to this thread. You are as uniformed as Nightflier on so many issues it is not funny. I do not have the time to verbally spar with a sandbox type. As dumb as nightflier is, and least he's fun to toy with. You are not. You are just a game playing kid.
That is all, you are dismissed.
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