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Thread: Plasma Is Dead

  1. #1
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool Plasma Is Dead

    Finally some REAL news, mainly that plasma TV, the dumbest way to create a video image , IS DEAD.
    NOT QUITE YET, but the doctors are pulling the plug.

    After spending FOUR billion on plasma producing factories Pioneer has thrown in the towel,
    they will still market plasmas, they just wont be producing the screens.
    A new generation of superthin LCD and the new OLED tech was cited as the reasons for the decision.
    THE ARTICLE IS HERE
    http://www.audioholics.com/news/indu...sma-tv-is-dead
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    Forum Regular diggity's Avatar
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    i dont think that was why pioneer ceased making screens. in australia here the problem i feel was their distribution. they were in nearly every store, from big box movers to high end distributors. they were in stores that carried unknown chinese brands, lg and the like. people like the picture, they know of the quality of screen, but when next door to it on the sales floor is an lg at 1/3 the price they didnt want to spend the money. as a consequence retailers began to heavily discount the panel. pioneer were getting pressured to reduce price.
    in the end of the day, they couldnt compete against price. if they reduced their distributers i feel they wouldnt be in this situation

    cheers: diggity

  3. #3
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Coming down the road are super thin plasma's as well! I just read a small article on them. I think Samsung is developing them.
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    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    Coming down the road are super thin plasma's as well! I just read a small article on them. I think Samsung is developing them.
    Are you DEAF? Pixel said plasma is DEAD. That means DEAD. No super thin, super DEAD. DEAD DEAD DEAD. No more DEAD. You didn't read what you though you did. It said plasma is DEAD.
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    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Hmmm, 11.4 million units sold last year doesn't look like a dead format to me. And the Japan Electronics and Information Technology Association (JEITA) just last month projected that plasma sales would increase to around 25 million units by 2012. Dead would imply that sales are near zero, and technological investment is at an end, which is not the case with plasma.

    The only thing factual about this article is Pioneer getting out of manufacturing plasma panels, which is not surprising considering that they only produce plasma panels in the hundreds of thousands, while Samsung, LG, and Panasonic each manufacture plasma panels in the millions. Just about everything else in the article is speculation, as I'm sure you're aware.

    Pioneer's problem is that other manufacturers passed them technologically, while Pioneer maintained their higher price points. Panasonic's highly reviewed 1080p plasmas sell for less than Pioneer's 720p models. Pioneer's plasmas are well regarded for their black levels and color accuracy, but they lost on the spec sheet to other competing models while charging substantially higher prices. Subjectively, the Pioneers have always had top notch picture quality, but their advantage has narrowed as competitors have improved their picture quality.
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    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groundbeef
    Are you DEAF? Pixel said plasma is DEAD. That means DEAD. No super thin, super DEAD. DEAD DEAD DEAD. No more DEAD. You didn't read what you though you did. It said plasma is DEAD.
    Things get super thin as they wither away and become DEAD.
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  8. #8
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I think the Super thin plasma was something like 0.37ths of an inch if I'm not mistaken. I'll double check the article.

    Just checked and it was 9mm thick and there is 25mm to an inch.
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    Nine millimeters is .355 inches (as every pistolero knows), so your estimation of .37 is very very close.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Woochifer Hmmm, 11.4 million units sold last year doesn't look like a dead format to me. And the Japan Electronics and Information Technology Association (JEITA) just last month projected that plasma sales would increase to around 25 million units by 2012. Dead would imply that sales are near zero, and technological investment is at an end, which is not the case with plasma.

    11.4 MILL IS JUST A DROP IN THE BUCKET.
    These guys are as wrong as you are


    The only thing factual about this article is Pioneer getting out of manufacturing plasma panels, which is not surprising considering that they only produce plasma panels in the hundreds of thousands, while Samsung, LG, and Panasonic each manufacture plasma panels in the millions. Just about everything else in the article is speculation, as I'm sure you're aware.
    Not really, the competitive forces at play wont leave plasma with a market niche.
    And its certainly NOT speculation that PIONEER is giving up a FOUR BILLION
    dollar investment in four plasma screen factories.
    In other words they are gettin out while the gettins good


    Pioneer's problem is that other manufacturers passed them technologically, while Pioneer maintained their higher price points. Panasonic's highly reviewed 1080p plasmas sell for less than Pioneer's 720p models. Pioneer's plasmas are well regarded for their black levels and color accuracy, but they lost on the spec sheet to other competing models while charging substantially higher prices. Subjectively, the Pioneers have always had top notch picture quality, but their advantage has narrowed as competitors have improved their picture quality.

    Their problem is the same as with other plasma makers...
    PLASMA IS DEAD
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  11. #11
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    When developement along different tracks to do the same thing occurs a
    kind of "shaking out" is the result.
    WITH CARS IT WAS steam, electric, and the internal combustion engine(both deisel and gas).
    IN THE RACE TO SUPPLANT the CRT there were several techiques ,
    RPTV (tube, lcd, dlp, etc), Plasma, and later LCD.
    Now the shakeout is occuring , RPTV was the first victim, now PLASMA is next.
    The market some grew up in is an abberation, so many ways to create video images .
    But there are advantages to having a few core ways of doing things.
    So the future is going to be LCD and oled, and that is just the near future, eventually OLED will supplant LCD.
    THIS is what the market has decided and the HT and audio enthusiast rides on a sea
    of the mass market, at least now that we have a glimpse of the future we can start improving the breed.
    Superflat LCD with external electrode flourescents is an example.
    PLASMA is just too difficult to fabricate and use compared to cheap LCD.
    but the good news, there will be a higher end of displays for the more discerning taste,
    and now that there is one tech to focuse on that tech will get better faster
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  12. #12
    Forum Regular diggity's Avatar
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    irony is pioneer produced an ultra thin panel at the last c.e.s. they will still be around, they are getting panels from panasonic they tell me and tweaking them. which is what sony does with samsung panels. panasonic i hear has brought old panels from hitachi so they can release bigger lcd screens, they will be tweaking them as well. everyone is doing it. plasma is far from dead.

  13. #13
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Well gee whiz

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Finally some REAL news, mainly that plasma TV, the dumbest way to create a video image , IS DEAD.
    NOT QUITE YET, but the doctors are pulling the plug.

    After spending FOUR billion on plasma producing factories Pioneer has thrown in the towel,
    they will still market plasmas, they just wont be producing the screens.
    A new generation of superthin LCD and the new OLED tech was cited as the reasons for the decision.
    THE ARTICLE IS HERE
    http://www.audioholics.com/news/indu...sma-tv-is-dead
    With any luck I'll be buying my first HDTV come the fall, and I was leaning to plazma for the blacker blacks and better colors. From what I had heard, burn-in and shorter life aren't the problems they used to be.

    I'd heard of Pioneer's decision to get out of plazma production but figured it was really just another out-sourcing strategy. There's nothing new about major manufactures buying components from outside. If I got the facts right, (maybe I don't), LG makes LCD panels for a couple of majors.

    I guess I've got the advantage of 6 months to watch and see what happens before I have to choose.

  14. #14
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    11.4 MILL IS JUST A DROP IN THE BUCKET.
    These guys are as wrong as you are
    And 11.4 million does not equate to DEAD, so who's wrong now Mr "Scientist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Not really, the competitive forces at play wont leave plasma with a market niche.
    If you're referring to OLED, that won't happen for years. And when alternative technologies like OLED finally reach viable price points, LCD would likely go down first, since most of their market share is in the smaller screen sizes.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    And its certainly NOT speculation that PIONEER is giving up a FOUR BILLION
    dollar investment in four plasma screen factories.
    In other words they are gettin out while the gettins good
    And all the while, Panasonic and Samsung have been investing in their plasma technologies, and maintaining a healthy margin in that segment. Pioneer's problem is that they overpaid for NEC's production facility (which at the time was providing Sony with plasma panels, and Pioneer's acquisition occured just as Sony exited the segment), and fell behind their competitors technologically. Pioneer bought NEC's production facility assuming that they could count on the outsource volume from Sony. Once Pioneer lost Sony, they had way too much Panasonic and Samsung don't have any of these issues, and their production volume is upwards of 10X greater than Pioneer's to begin with.

    Plus, it doesn't hurt that Sharp recently took out an ownership stake in Pioneer. Think that doesn't have anything to do with this decision? Keep those crayons out, you might yet comprehend this game of connect-the-dots one of these days!

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Their problem is the same as with other plasma makers...
    Wrong again. Panasonic and Samsung are doing just fine, and are primarily responsible for Pioneer's problems. Pioneer could not match their price points, and they've now erased Pioneer's picture quality advantage. Anything else to draw from that article is pure speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    PLASMA IS DEAD
    Like I said, 11.4 million in sales and a projected 25 million by 2012 doesn't square with any rational definition of DEAD. Of course, that's presuming that I'm dealing with a rational opinionator here!
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    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Watch it Woochie, 15 years from now when plasmas are out of production Pixie will tell ya "I TOLD you so. ".
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  16. #16
    Forum Regular O'Shag's Avatar
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    For large screen (60" +) I prefer plasma to LCD overall. I saw an LG 70" plasma (native 1920x1080) at Best Buy playing a blu ray disc. Positively stunning picture. My Sony KDS R70XBR2 SXRD still kicks ass even though its now offically classed as an obsolete woolly mammoth (I only bought the thing a bloody year and a bit ago and it had just been released!). Then again my 40" Loewe Aconda CRT still puts many current sets to shame, and its from the cretacious period.

  17. #17
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by O'Shag
    For large screen (60" +) I prefer plasma to LCD overall. I saw an LG 70" plasma (native 1920x1080) at Best Buy playing a blu ray disc. Positively stunning picture. My Sony KDS R70XBR2 SXRD still kicks ass even though its now offically classed as an obsolete woolly mammoth (I only bought the thing a bloody year and a bit ago and it had just been released!). Then again my 40" Loewe Aconda CRT still puts many current sets to shame, and its from the cretacious period.
    A STORE IN TOWN USED TO SELL LOEWE, as a matter of fact thats where I bought my Integra, a friend almost bought a 40in loewe, the picture was very good
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  18. #18
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    And 11.4 million does not equate to DEAD, so who's wrong now Mr "Scientist"?
    A friends brother drank himself to death, saw his best friend walk around headless for a few seconds while in NAM, that guy was DEAD.
    If the market for something with the investment of billions that plasma has is a paltry
    11.4 million start shopping for caskets


    If you're referring to OLED, that won't happen for years. And when alternative technologies like OLED finally reach viable price points, LCD would likely go down first, since most of their market share is in the smaller screen sizes.

    Its ALREADY happened, dillweed.
    And since every cell fone in the world has oled it wont take long for OLED to catch on
    and go down in price, it only took a few years for LCD prices to crash, and it cost more to make one than an OLED.
    Theres talk of making OLED screens with bubblejet printers, and OLED paint that , when applied to a wall, will turn into an OLED screen.
    You can roll an oled up and put it in a tube, small size is the market for mow but that
    will change SOON


    And all the while, Panasonic and Samsung have been investing in their plasma technologies, and maintaining a healthy margin in that segment. Pioneer's problem is that they overpaid for NEC's production facility (which at the time was providing Sony with plasma panels, and Pioneer's acquisition occured just as Sony exited the segment), and fell behind their competitors technologically. Pioneer bought NEC's production facility assuming that they could count on the outsource volume from Sony. Once Pioneer lost Sony, they had way too much Panasonic and Samsung don't have any of these issues, and their production volume is upwards of 10X greater than Pioneer's to begin with.
    THEY HAVE WORSE "ISSUES".
    Sony got out of plasma and others are getting out too, I'd get you some "crayons " if
    you knew how to use them.
    Sony is one of if not the biggest manufacturer od video displays and they aint touching Plasma, are you too stupid to understand why?


    Plus, it doesn't hurt that Sharp recently took out an ownership stake in Pioneer. Think that doesn't have anything to do with this decision? Keep those crayons out, you might yet comprehend this game of connect-the-dots one of these days!
    THE ONLY THING TO DO WITH THIS DECISION IS OVERCAPACITY IN THE PLASMA MARKET.
    The price is going down just to compete with LCD , which it cant do.
    The only market niche is highq and the highq is a matter of opinion, and OLED and improvement in LCD, adding to the fact that LCD is more trouble free would be enough to kill Plasma, except that plasma IS ALREADY DEAD

    Wrong again. Panasonic and Samsung are doing just fine, and are primarily responsible for Pioneer's problems. Pioneer could not match their price points, and they've now erased Pioneer's picture quality advantage. Anything else to draw from that article is pure speculation.
    AND THEY ARE BLEEDING RED INK trying to keep their own "price points", and are next to drop plasma like a hot potato, just as soon as they can figure out how to without killing what little is left of the market, which is SHRINKING not growing

    Like I said, 11.4 million in sales and a projected 25 million by 2012 doesn't square with any rational definition of DEAD. Of course, that's presuming that I'm dealing with a rational opinionator here!
    I'm the one whos rational around here, you talk about "speculation" and then mention
    a marketing BS lie ABOUT 25 MILLION BY 2012???

    I'll give you a more accurate "prediction" ACE, a projection of ZERO sales by 2012.
    Why?
    BECAUSE PLASMA IS DEAD
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  19. #19
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    heres a few articles for the clueless wooch to chaw on

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2112833,00.asp


    http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/11...doing-so-good/


    I can put this stuff up all day, its pretty common knowledge, except to the clueless
    and terminally stupid
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  20. #20
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Gee, i belive everything is in decline as money being spent is abit short these days but you go ahead and read into that anyway you want.
    Look & Listen

  21. #21
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    "Plasma is Dead"

    Ummm... one question:

    WHO CARES????

    Does the death or life of plasma really affect consumers???

    In the case of HD-DVD dying it screws consumers who own players, since it means no new movies will be released in their format (eventually)... so if they want HD quality movies they need to either download or get Blu-Ray... BUT since Plasma, LCD, RPTV, etc are all compatible with cable/dish/dvd/vhs/Wii/PS3/XBox 360/whatever, then how does its decrease in popularity affect owners???

    IMHO, TV is one of the few places in the HT world, where the more alternative technologies there are - the better.... it just gives consumers more choices and more price ranges....

  22. #22
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    A friends brother drank himself to death, saw his best friend walk around headless for a few seconds while in NAM, that guy was DEAD.
    If the market for something with the investment of billions that plasma has is a paltry
    11.4 million start shopping for caskets
    So, given that your brain already seems to be inactive, should we now consider you DEAD as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Its ALREADY happened, dillweed.
    And since every cell fone in the world has oled it wont take long for OLED to catch on
    and go down in price, it only took a few years for LCD prices to crash, and it cost more to make one than an OLED.
    Theres talk of making OLED screens with bubblejet printers, and OLED paint that , when applied to a wall, will turn into an OLED screen.
    If Samsung is saying that OLED will take at least two more years before they can be introduced in large screen sizes (and presumably at higher prices than LCD and plasma), I'd say that OLED is not a market force in the HDTV market right now, or in the near future.

    If you want to limit your TV viewing to puny 3" phone screens or that $2,500 Sony 11" model just so you can prove your OLED bona fides, be my guest.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    THEY HAVE WORSE "ISSUES".
    Sony got out of plasma and others are getting out too, I'd get you some "crayons " if
    you knew how to use them.

    Sony is one of if not the biggest manufacturer od video displays and they aint touching Plasma, are you too stupid to understand why?
    Nice try, but we ain't playing horseshoes here. Sony got out of plasma because they relied entirely on outsource vendors, or do you not know that Panasonic and Samsung make their own plasma panels? No need to get me any crayons, since I can connect the dots just fine. You obviously still have cognitive challenges there.

    If not for their joint venture arrangement with Samsung, Sony would be in a world of trouble in the flat panel market. Samsung operates shared and sole ownership facilities for both LCD and plasma, Sony does not have any independent capacity of their own. Samsung would seem to be a stronger market position here, and they are continuing to invest in plasma. I'm not even going to ask if you're too stupid to understand this, because I'm sure you'll come up with some other illogical rant in response.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    THE ONLY THING TO DO WITH THIS DECISION IS OVERCAPACITY IN THE PLASMA MARKET.
    The price is going down just to compete with LCD , which it cant do.
    Overcapacity is industrywide, Einstein. It's not limited to Why do you think there's so much consolidation occurring throughout the display panel industry? Panasonic and Samsung, the top two plasma manufacturers, are doing just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    The only market niche is highq and the highq is a matter of opinion, and OLED and improvement in LCD, adding to the fact that LCD is more trouble free would be enough to kill Plasma, except that plasma IS ALREADY DEAD
    So, by your logic, if OLED is going to take over the market years down the road, then we should also consider LCD already dead? Why not presume that yet another technology 20 years from now will knock OLED off of its annointed throne, and presume it dead before it even arrives? Hell, why not just say that we're all dead given that we'll all die within the next 70 or so years? That's the kind of pencilneck logic you're offering up here.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    AND THEY ARE BLEEDING RED INK trying to keep their own "price points", and are next to drop plasma like a hot potato, just as soon as they can figure out how to without killing what little is left of the market, which is SHRINKING not growing
    The overall market is growing. The only thing that's shrinking is plasma's market share, and that's entirely a price driven equation. Yet, plasma manufacturers have been able to maintain higher margins, whereas the LCD margins are in free fall. LCDs are selling in unit volume, but the profitability is shrinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I'm the one whos rational around here, you talk about "speculation" and then mention
    a marketing BS lie ABOUT 25 MILLION BY 2012???
    A market projection by a reputable trade group is not a lie. You, on the other hand, are quite adept with the lying concept, so I have no idea how you missed that distinction here!

    You, rational? That's actually funny, but sorry to report that funny isn't the same as rational...

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I'll give you a more accurate "prediction" ACE, a projection of ZERO sales by 2012.
    Why?
    BECAUSE PLASMA IS DEAD
    Whatever Mr "Scientist" I'm sure if you were a doctor, you'd have quite a bedside manner. If a patient comes in with the hiccups or needs an allergy, you'd just order up a death certificate on the spot!
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  23. #23
    Forum Regular O'Shag's Avatar
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    Would someone please explain to me why Plasma is bad? I understand that there were serious reliability problems several years ago, but I was under the impression those have long since been eradicated. eg screen burn in etc. It seems that just when they get a technology right after several years, the technology becomes obsolete?? The reason for my 'concern', is that many LCD displays I've seen don't look entirely convincing in terms of a natural picture. The contrast is off. The blacks are way over done and the picture starts looking like a cartoon in a sense. Does anyone else notice this? The latest 1920x1080 native rez plasmas look more realistic to me. This is one thing I love about my Loewe. The latest technologies will probably provide a bit more detail, but the CRT ends up looking more real to life - sort of like good tube amps vs whiz bang solid state amps if you get my meaning.

  24. #24
    JSE
    JSE is offline
    MIA - Until Rich is back! JSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    "Plasma is Dead"

    Ummm... one question:

    WHO CARES????

    Does the death or life of plasma really affect consumers???

    In the case of HD-DVD dying it screws consumers who own players, since it means no new movies will be released in their format (eventually)... so if they want HD quality movies they need to either download or get Blu-Ray... BUT since Plasma, LCD, RPTV, etc are all compatible with cable/dish/dvd/vhs/Wii/PS3/XBox 360/whatever, then how does its decrease in popularity affect owners???

    IMHO, TV is one of the few places in the HT world, where the more alternative technologies there are - the better.... it just gives consumers more choices and more price ranges....
    Well said. Who gives a rat's arse?

    I have LCD that I am happy with. I don't care if they stop making LCDs tomorrow. Mine will still work fine.

    Maybe I am wrong but I think Pixless was trolling. Nah, Pixless would never do that. Would he?

    Pix, do we need to put you away in the closet where we have that old printer stored?

    JSE

  25. #25
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O'Shag
    Would someone please explain to me why Plasma is bad? I understand that there were serious reliability problems several years ago, but I was under the impression those have long since been eradicated. eg screen burn in etc. It seems that just when they get a technology right after several years, the technology becomes obsolete?? The reason for my 'concern', is that many LCD displays I've seen don't look entirely convincing in terms of a natural picture. The contrast is off. The blacks are way over done and the picture starts looking like a cartoon in a sense. Does anyone else notice this? The latest 1920x1080 native rez plasmas look more realistic to me. This is one thing I love about my Loewe. The latest technologies will probably provide a bit more detail, but the CRT ends up looking more real to life - sort of like good tube amps vs whiz bang solid state amps if you get my meaning.
    Plasma is not bad at all. Pix just owns an LCD so therefore, plasma is evil. Plasma has a better picture quality than LCD but does have other drawbacks. You get to choose which means more to you. LCD on average uses less electric, has less glare, weighs less, and are brighter. Plasmas have better black level, richer colors, and better off center viewing. The price edge goes to LCD on anything under 50 inch. Plasma for anything over. Both are getting better with their short comings. Where one used to be way better at something in the past, they are now just a little better. Burn in and glare for plasmas are a thing of the past. Newer models are much better. Screen door effect and blurry movements for LCD is going bye bye as well. In the end, (or make that the next few years) LCD should sell more because of what they do better appeals to the masses more than the better PQ of a plasma.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

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