Onkyo DTS-HD & Dolby TrueHD Receiver coming in late May.

[Smokey]

Onkyo Electronics has announced plans to release two new A/V receivers, each supporting full DTS-HD Master Lossless Audio and Dolby TrueHD decoding. The TX-SR605 is due in late May, with an MSRP of $599. It will be followed later this fall by high-end THX Ultra 2-c certified TX-S4806, which will list for a cool $1099.

Both units are the first next-gen hardware to hit the market capable of decoding DTS-HD Master Lossless Audio at their full resolution, via HDMI V1.3A connections.

Until now, there has been no way to enjoy DTS-HD soundtracks on Blu-ray and HD DVD discs at their full potential, as all current next-gen receivers and players have, at best, only been able to extract a standard DTS 1.5mpbs "core" audio stream from DTS-HD-encoded discs.



http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i
http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i

[L.J.]

Yeah I've had my eye on these for awhile now. The 605 can be preordered at JR (phone only) for $399. Not bad. I'm more interested in the 805 though which comes in at a heafty 50 lbs. and can't wait to give it an audition. These prices are pretty decent for some nicely loaded gear. I've been very interested in giving the Audyssey room correction a try as well.




OK, I'll stop drooling now

[westcott]

And don't forget it also sports the Silicon Optix Reon video processor and Burr Brown DAC's. What a steal!!!!!

Can't wait to read some in depth reviews by months end.

[PeruvianSkies]

And don't forget it also sports the Silicon Optix Reon video processor and Burr Brown DAC's. What a steal!!!!!

Can't wait to read some in depth reviews by months end.

Too bad it has lame looking green lights. I'm a bigger fan of blue lights when it comes to displays because I find them easier to read in the dark, yet not disturbing.

[kexodusc]

Too bad it has lame looking green lights. I'm a bigger fan of blue lights when it comes to displays because I find them easier to read in the dark, yet not disturbing.

LOL. Don't think I've ever heard display color used as a reason not to buy a unit before. What can ya do? I prefer orange, because that's what I have.

These look like sweet units.

LJ, I'm a big fan of JR, I've ordered tons of stuff from there. Where'd you see the 605 listed? Unless I'm blind, I just don't see it...

What's the price on the 805 going to be? It's got the beef and the pre-outs to be an early favorite for my HD needs. Dammit...I can't buy any gear for the next 6-10 months, sorta caught in limbo. And I'm starting to get "the bug" real bad, and that ain't good...

[westcott]

Too bad it has lame looking green lights. I'm a bigger fan of blue lights when it comes to displays because I find them easier to read in the dark, yet not disturbing.

If I did not know better, I would say this was a Denon receiver in an Onkyo sheep skin with a Yamaha price.

As for screen display, I really do not have a preference. I find all of them distracting and that is why my equipment is behind the couch and I turn the display lights off when not in use.

Having one of the first units out with HD audio capabilities is a big plus and the price is hard to argue with. Makes all the other receivers out there look like last years Russian fashion wear.

[L.J.]

LOL. Don't think I've ever heard display color used as a reason not to buy a unit before. What can ya do? I prefer orange, because that's what I have.

These look like sweet units.

LJ, I'm a big fan of JR, I've ordered tons of stuff from there. Where'd you see the 605 listed? Unless I'm blind, I just don't see it...

What's the price on the 805 going to be? It's got the beef and the pre-outs to be an early favorite for my HD needs. Dammit...I can't buy any gear for the next 6-10 months, sorta caught in limbo. And I'm starting to get "the bug" real bad, and that ain't good...

The 605 got pulled off the website but according to the guys at AVS, phone orders are still being accepted. Very tempting at $399.

The 805 was listed for $999 at a few sites.

[kexodusc]

The 605 got pulled off the website but according to the guys at AVS, phone orders are still being accepted. Very tempting at $399.

The 805 was listed for $999 at a few sites.

$999 for the 805? Wow. That's some kind of jump from the $399 on the 605. Must be the list price. Baaah..I'll come back in a year and start shopping then. Should be more competition by then anyway.

[L.J.]

$999 for the 805? Wow. That's some kind of jump from the $399 on the 605. Must be the list price. Baaah..I'll come back in a year and start shopping then. Should be more competition by then anyway.

Oops, guess I should have noted there is one in between to fill in the gap. The 705, which is where the preouts start to show up. The MSRP is $899 but it won't be out for a few months. Maybe street price will be like $599-$699 or something. I can't wait a year for prices to drop down. I'm in serious need of new unit now......

Here's a list of the specs from a thread at AVS on the full line up.

TX-SR605 MSRP $599 Shipping Late May
605 Pictures: Front View Black Rear View
Full Feature List: http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m...&class=Receiver
*Full A/V Processing via HDMI 1.3a with Upconversion (2 in 1 out)
*HDMI Deep Color Capable (36bit)
*Component Video Upconversion and HDTV-Capable (50 MHZ) Video Switching (3 in 1 out)
*WRAT/ Optimum Gain Volume Circuitry/ Non-Scaling Configuration/ A-Form Listening Mode Memory/ RI
*Faroudja DCDi
*Audyssey 2EQ Room Acoustics Correction
*7.1 Multichannel Inputs for PCM Delivery of Hi-Def Audio Sources
*DOLBY Decoder - PLIIx, DD, DD-EX, DD+, TrueHD
*DTS Decoder - DTS, ES, NEO:6, 96/24, HD Master Audio
*S-Video (5 in 2 out)
*Digital Audio IN (OPT/COAX) 3/3
*Composite Video (5 in/2 out)
*Power 90W/Ch
*Powered Zone 2 and Zone 2 Line-Out
*Bi-Amp Capable
*XM and Sirius ports
*XM HD Surround Sound through Neural Surround
*RIHD (Remote Interactive over HDMI) communication protocol

TX-SR705 MSRP $899 Est Shipping date mid to late June
*Full A/V Processing via HDMI 1.3a with Upconversion (3 in 1 out)
*HDMI Deep Color Capable (36bit)
*Component Video Upconversion and HDTV-Capable (50 MHZ) Video Switching (3 in 1 out)
*WRAT/ Optimum Gain Volume Circuitry/ Non-Scaling Configuration/ A-Form Listening Mode Memory/ RI
*Faroudja DCDi
*Audyssey MultEQ XT Room Acoustics Correction
*7.1 Multichannel Inputs for PCM Delivery of Hi-Def Audio Sources
*DOLBY Decoder - PLIIx, DD, DD-EX, DD+, TrueHD
*DTS Decoder - DTS, ES, NEO:6, 96/24, HD Master Audio
*THX Select2 Certified
*S-Video (5 in 2 out)
*Digital Audio IN (OPT/COAX) 3/3
*Composite (5 in 2 out)
*7.1 Preouts
*Power 100W/Ch
*Powered Zone 2 and Zone 2 Line-Out
*Bi-Amp Capable
*XM and Sirius ports
*XM HD Surround Sound through Neural Surround
*RIHD (Remote Interactive over HDMI) communication protocol

TX-SR805 MSRP $1099 Est Shipping date Late May
805 Pictures: Front View Closed Front View Open Rear View
Full Feature List: http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m...&class=Receiver
*Full A/V Processing via HDMI 1.3a with Upconversion (3 in 1 out)
*HDMI Deep Color Capable (36bit)
*Component Video Upconversion and HDTV-Capable (100 MHZ) Video Switching (3 in 1 out)
*WRAT/ Optimum Gain Volume Circuitry/ Non-Scaling Configuration/ A-Form Listening Mode Memory/ RI
*Faroudja DCDi
*Audyssey MultEQ XT Room Acoustics Correction
*7.1 Multichannel Inputs for PCM Delivery of Hi-Def Audio Sources
*DOLBY Decoder - PLIIx, DD, DD-EX, DD+, TrueHD
*DTS Decoder - DTS, ES, NEO:6, 96/24, HD Master Audio
*THX Ultra2 Certified
*Burr-Brown 192/24-bit DAC on all Channels (TI Architecture (PCM1796))
*S-Video (6 in 1 out)
*Digital Audio IN (OPT/COAX) 3/3; OUT (OPT) 1
*Composite (6 in 1 out)
*7.1 Preouts
*Power 130W/Ch
*Powered Zone 2 with Balance Volume and tone control
*Powered Zone 3
*Bi-Amp Capable
*XM and Sirius ports
*XM HD Surround Sound through Neural Surround
*RIHD (Remote Interactive over HDMI) communication protocol

TX-SR875 MSRP $1699 Est Shipping date mid to late July
*Full A/V Processing via HDMI 1.3a with Upconversion (4 in 1 out)
*HDMI Deep Color Capable (36bit)
*Component Video Upconversion and HDTV-Capable (100 MHZ) Video Switching (? in 1 out)
*WRAT/ Optimum Gain Volume Circuitry/ Non-Scaling Configuration/ A-Form Listening Mode Memory/ RI
*HQV Reon-VX Video Processing and NSV Precision Video
*Audyssey MultEQ XT Room Acoustics Correction
*7.1 Multichannel Inputs for PCM Delivery of Hi-Def Audio Sources
*DOLBY Decoder - PLIIx, DD, DD-EX, DD+, TrueHD
*DTS Decoder - DTS, ES, NEO:6, 96/24, HD Master Audio
*THX Ultra2 Certified
*S-Video (? in 1 out)
*Digital Audio IN (OPT/COAX) ?/?
*Composite (? in 1 out)
*7.1 Preouts
*Burr-Brown 192/24-bit DAC on all Channels (TI Architecture (PCM1796))
*Power 140W/Ch
*Powered Zone 2 with Video Balance Volume and tone control
*Powered Zone 3
*Bi-Amp & BTL Capable
*Dual Push-Pull Amp with 3 stage inverted
*XM and Sirius ports
*XM HD Surround Sound through Neural Surround
*RIHD (Remote Interactive over HDMI) communication protocol

TX-NR905 MSRP $2099 Est Shipping date mid to late August
*Full A/V Processing via HDMI 1.3a with Upconversion (4 in 2 out)
*HDMI Deep Color Capable (36bit)
*Component Video Upconversion and HDTV-Capable (100 MHZ) Video Switching (? in 1 out)
*WRAT/ Optimum Gain Volume Circuitry/ Non-Scaling Configuration/ A-Form Listening Mode Memory/ RI
*HQV Reon-VX Video Processing and NSV Precision Video
*Audyssey MultEQ XT Room Acoustics Correction
*7.1 Multichannel Inputs for PCM Delivery of Hi-Def Audio Sources
*DOLBY Decoder - PLIIx, DD, DD-EX, DD+, TrueHD
*DTS Decoder - DTS, ES, NEO:6, 96/24, HD Master Audio
*THX Ultra2 Certified
*S-Video (? in 1 out)
*Digital Audio IN (OPT/COAX) ?/?
*Composite (? in 1 out)
*7.1 Preouts
*Burr-Brown 192/24-bit DAC on all Channels (TI Architecture (PCM1796))
*Power 140W/Ch
*Powered Zone 2 with Video Balance Volume and tone control
*Powered Zone 3
*Bi-Amp & BTL Capable
*Dual Push-Pull Amp with 3 stage inverted
*Toroidal Transformer and Seperate Transformers for processing.
*XM and Sirius ports
*XM HD Surround Sound through Neural Surround
*Networking Capabilities via Onkyo's e-Control System for Internet Radio and WMA
*Built-in HD radio receiver
*RIHD (Remote Interactive over HDMI) communication protocol

Additional info:
HDMI and Component Video Upconversion is discribed as follows (For 805/705/605/575/505:
*Signal is output at its input resolutionwith no scaling

Video IN:
*Component
*S-Video
*Composite

Video OUT:
* HDMI or Component Video (Output at input Resolution)

480i>480p 480p>480p 576p>576p 720p>720p 1080i>720p 1080i>1080p

505/575 send Composite, S-Video and Component IN>Component OUT
HDMI IN>HDMI OUT

605/705/805 send Composite, S-Video, Component and HDMI IN> HDMI OUT


TX-NR905 and TX-SR875 Upconversion of Video Signals to HDMI:
All Video Signals are converted to HD 1080p Quality using Reon-VX Processing.

Video IN:
*Component Video (480i/480p/576p/720p/1080i)
*S-Video (480i)
*Composite (480i)

Video OUT:
*HDMI Output 1080p

[musicman1999]

Until now, there has been no way to enjoy DTS-HD soundtracks on Blu-ray and HD DVD discs at their full potential, as all current next-gen receivers and players have, at best, only been able to extract a standard DTS 1.5mpbs "core" audio stream from DTS-HD-encoded discs.


That is not exactly accurate,high def players do,via HDMI or multichannel analog outputs,send their all their audio streams right up to and including uncompressed multichannel pcm.Only by using a regular coax or optical out are you restricted to dts.Any reciever with HDMI or multichanell analog ins will do just fine.In fact HD-dvd players must decode onboard in order to use all their interactive features.

bill

[L.J.]

That is not exactly accurate,high def players do,via HDMI or multichannel analog outputs,send their all their audio streams right up to and including uncompressed multichannel pcm.Only by using a regular coax or optical out are you restricted to dts.Any reciever with HDMI or multichanell analog ins will do just fine.

bill

Your right. If the PS3 had analog outs I would have no need for a new AVR.

In fact HD-dvd players must decode onboard in order to use all their interactive features.

I've also read that the software has to allow the raw bitstream signal to be sent out the player for decoding and no current software supports this.

From Dolby:
"To decode these bitstreams, the A/V decoder will need to support the updated data protocols, as well as incorporate these new decoding algorithms. In addition, it will be necessary to select HD discs in which the content maker has permitted the core 5.1 or 7.1 audio bitstreams to bypass the player’s mixing process and be sent directly to the digital outputs of the player. We expect that certain HD discs will permit this, but they may represent a minority of titles. In the end, the sound quality will be essentially the same as that of audio decoded within the player as PCM signals and transported through a current-generation HDMI connection to the A/V receiver."

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...HD_avrs_3.html



Does anyone have anymore info on this?

[bobsticks]

Hey LJ,

I've been looking for a reason to get away from my Yammie with its weak pre-amp stage and user-unfriendly remote. Full upconversion from any source and a multitude of source choices makes the 875 look pretty attractive. Thanks for taking the time.

Cheers

[Smokey]

That is not exactly accurate,high def players do,via HDMI or multichannel analog outputs,send their all their audio streams right up to and including uncompressed multichannel pcm.Only by using a regular coax or optical out are you restricted to dts.Any reciever with HDMI or multichanell analog ins will do just fine.

bill

That is not true for DTS-HD

For analog output, HD players should have 7.1 descrete analog outputs to take advantage of lossles DTS-HD. No HD players announced yet can do this. Currently for analog output, DTS 1.5mpbs "core" audio stream is used.

For digital connection to take advanatge of lossless DTS-HD, both the player and reciever must have HDMI 1.3 digital connection. Other wise it wil be downconverted.

[musicman1999]

Sorry Smokey,but thats not right.Any hd-dvd or blue ray player will output full bandwidth audio over its multichannel outputs,it is only in 5.1 not 7.1 however since there are no movies that support 7.1 yet,it really should not be an issue.The DTS downmix that you speak of is only available through coax or optical.Go to the link that L.J. provided and also read the first 2 pages.That will explain it.Any current reciever or processor with 5.1 or 7.1 analog inputs will give you full bandwidth audio from the disc,in any of its formats right up to uncompressed pcm.

bill

[Smokey]

Hi Bill

I went thru the link L.J provided, and it does not mention anything about DTS-HD that we are talking about.

But even for DolbyTrueHD if analog output if full bandwidth, one still need HDMI 1.3 to take full advantage of it digitally. Here is an excerpt from the same link:

“Eventually, A/V receivers will have direct access to Dolby® Digital Plus or Dolby TrueHD bitstreams. We are working with the IEC and HDMI organizations to update data protocols to enable future versions of these high-bandwidth interfaces to carry these bitstreams. To decode these bitstreams, the A/V decoder will need to support the updated data protocols, as well as incorporate these new decoding algorithms”

Which mean one must have HDMI 1.3 to have direct access to these bitstreams as current HDMI 1.2 does not have enough bandwidth to carry lossless streams.

But either way, the original argument was about DTS-HD

[PeruvianSkies]

Hi Bill

I went thru the link L.J provided, and it does not mention anything about DTS-HD that we are talking about.

But even for DolbyTrueHD if analog output if full bandwidth, one still need HDMI 1.3 to take full advantage of it digitally. Here is an excerpt from the same link:

“Eventually, A/V receivers will have direct access to Dolby® Digital Plus or Dolby TrueHD bitstreams. We are working with the IEC and HDMI organizations to update data protocols to enable future versions of these high-bandwidth interfaces to carry these bitstreams. To decode these bitstreams, the A/V decoder will need to support the updated data protocols, as well as incorporate these new decoding algorithms”

Which mean one must have HDMI 1.3 to have direct access to these bitstreams as current HDMI 1.2 does not have enough bandwidth to carry lossless streams.

But either way, the original argument was about DTS-HD

I was under the same impression as Smokey on this one...it would be great to see what the correct answer is.

[musicman1999]

hi guys
True it does not mention DTS-HD but it is a Dolby site so that is not a suprise.Both DTS and Dolby Digital are methods of compression,if the decoders are present onboard,and they are,the signal should be available at all outputs.The only advantage to using HDMI over analog is the number of cables assuming the decoders are of equal quality.

bill

[Smokey]

Hey guys

I found this article on HDMI 1.3 in Sound&Vision magazine that might help clear this thing up a bit.

Under Unlimited Audio, it said:

"One key feature has been missing from the handful of first-gen HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc players: the ability to pass Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams to an external surround-sound processor or receiver for decoding.

But with HDMI 1.3, these limitations disappear. (Current Toshiba HD DVD players with the company's v2.0 firmware update can decode Dolby TrueHD soundtracks internally and output them as a multichannel PCM signal via HDMI, while first-gen Blu-ray players can't decode either Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio."

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...ink-page2.html

Hopefully that helped, or maybe not

[L.J.]

Hey guys

I found this article on HDMI 1.3 in Sound&Vision magazine that might help clear this thing up a bit.

Under Unlimited Audio, it said:

"One key feature has been missing from the handful of first-gen HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc players: the ability to pass Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams to an external surround-sound processor or receiver for decoding.

But with HDMI 1.3, these limitations disappear. (Current Toshiba HD DVD players with the company's v2.0 firmware update can decode Dolby TrueHD soundtracks internally and output them as a multichannel PCM signal via HDMI, while first-gen Blu-ray players can't decode either Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio."

So it is apparent from the article, on should have HDMI 1.3 to have lossless stream for either Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD master audio.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...ink-page2.html

Hopefully that helped, or maybe not

This is true for passing the bitstream signal from player to avr/processor for decoding, but I was under the impression that HDMI 1.3 was not needed if the player was capable of doing all the decoding. Do we all agree on this? I thought that the player, if capable, would pass the decoded signal via analog outputs or MC PCM via HDMI to the AVR. Most AVR's with HDMI 1.1 should be able to handle the MC PCM.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789994

And as I stated earlier and provided a quote from Dolby, the software must allow the bitstream signal to leave the player for decoding, right? If this becomes an issue, it would make a AVR with HD audio decoding very limited in use, as far as decoding the HD audio formats goes, I would think.

[musicman1999]

Without getting into things like HDMI compatability issues,the main point that i was trying to make was that these new recievers are not necessary when the players are perfectly capable of doing the decoding.There is no advantage to having a reciever doing the decoding and in the case of HD-DVD the interactive features require onboard decoding,use a reciever to decode and this feature does not work.After all thousands of people are enjoying the new audio formats from their high def players and none of them have these new recievers.

bill

[musicman1999]

This is true for passing the bitstream signal from player to avr/processor for decoding, but I was under the impression that HDMI 1.3 was not needed if the player was capable of doing all the decoding. Do we all agree on this? I thought that the player, if capable, would pass the decoded signal via analog outputs or MC PCM via HDMI to the AVR. Most AVR's with HDMI 1.1 should be able to handle the MC PCM.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789994

And as I stated earlier and provided a quote from Dolby, the software must allow the bitstream signal to leave the player for decoding, right? If this becomes an issue, it would make a AVR with HD audio decoding very limited in use I would think.

Thats right.

bill

[Smokey]

This is true for passing the bitstream signal from player to avr/processor for decoding, but I was under the impression that HDMI 1.3 was not needed if the player was capable of doing all the decoding. Do we all agree on this?

Yes, we all can agree on that one.

I thought that the player, if capable, would pass the decoded signal via analog outputs or MC PCM via HDMI to the AVR. Most AVR's with HDMI 1.1 should be able to handle the MC PCM.

I think this might be the sticking point. Question would be what is difference between MC PCM and Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams? Are they the same?

There is no advantage to having a reciever doing the decoding and in the case of HD-DVD the interactive features require onboard decoding,use a reciever to decode and this feature does not work.

Would HD player be capable of Bass Management also?

[L.J.]

I think this might be the sticking point. Question would be what is difference between MC PCM and Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams? Are they the same?

I've been enjoying DD @ 640kbps & DTS @ 1.5mpbs. Can't even imagine what SQ is like at that level. If there is a diff, I think It's gonna be all good no matter which way it turns out

Would HD player be capable of Bass Management also?

It had better be

[musicman1999]

Would HD player be capable of Bass Management also?[/QUOTE]

Good question.I did some looking around and from what i can find it seems that some do and some don't.LG seems to have it but the Samsung did not while Toshiba did not.Sony did not mention bass management at all.The thing that I find strange is that so many people ars concerned with the video performance of these machines while so few seem to worry about the audio side.My processor has 7.1 analog inputs with full bass management so if and when I purchase a high def player i should be alright.

bill

[bobsticks]

Hey bill,

Which Anthem do you have? As I am not concerned with amp sections a dedicated pre-pro would be great for my application if it had all the right capabilities. 7.1 multichannel outputs is great as is bass management, does it have a "direct out" mode that skips processing on all channels?

Hhmmn. Lot's to learn...

Thanks,
Mark