Black Friday TV deals?

[nightflier]

I went back to Costco. That Sharp 52" model number is LCC5255U (item #52055), which looks to be a Costco model number. It's selling for $1699.99 - $300 coupon (if they have enough to last by the time I get my turn). It says on the box it's 1080p, but nothing about 120Hz. Does anyone know if it does 120Hz?

BTW, I've been thinking a lot about SD picture quality. If I add a decent upconverting DVD player ('been looking at Panasonic, NAD & Cambridge), then the only SD I'll be watching is upconverted. I know it's not the same as true HD, but if the player does a decent job, then that will be a minor issue. As for TV, I've already deleted all the SD channels from the memory of my Samsung HD OTA tuner, so if the TV has a similar OTA tuner, then that's all I'll be watching. Besides, I'm guessing that after February most OTA-broadcasting stations will make an effort to improve picture quality to keep viewers.

Still that doesn't change how well a TV handles motion, diagonal lines, and pixelation, the three most irritating issues with LCD. When I view an LCD screen I feel like the image is flickering. Plasma has a similar effect, but less so. The edges on plasma look better it seems to have less pixelation.

What scares me about Plasma is the shipping. Mail order is pretty much out of the question, so I need to buy locally and with a good warranty, like they offer at Costco (and to a lesser extent CC/BB). Fortunately there's enough stores here in SoCal, but it's still a matter of actually getting one. Many stores have just a few and tomorrow most of those will be sold.

Anyhow, LCD is still an option, especially at that price. If anyone can give me some specs on that 52" Sharp at Costco, that would help.

One more question, is there a "dynamic contrast ratio" I should be shooting for? Some are like 30K:1 while others are as low as 1600:1. Does this even matter? Some also mention speed in ms. I know this is an issue when purchasing monitors for our graphic design staff at work, but does it really matter with a TV?

Thanks, in advance for all the info.

[Woochifer]

I went back to Costco. That Sharp 52" model number is LCC5255U (item #52055), which looks to be a Costco model number. It's selling for $1699.99 - $300 coupon (if they have enough to last by the time I get my turn). It says on the box it's 1080p, but nothing about 120Hz. Does anyone know if it does 120Hz?

Check to see if that set is even 1080p resolution, since Sharp makes 52" LCD screens in the lower resolutions. At a street price of $1,400, I doubt that this is the 120 Hz model, since the 120 Hz models have a street price of at least $1,700. Have you compared the specs on Costco's website with the info on Sharp's site? That's usually your best clue.

And with any Sharp, I would check with the AVS Forum for any lingering issues, because they were the first ones that brought up the color banding problems with Sharp's first generation 120 Hz sets last year. Sharp has supposedly fixed this issue, but their reputation and market share plummeted in the aftermath.

What scares me about Plasma is the shipping. Mail order is pretty much out of the question, so I need to buy locally and with a good warranty, like they offer at Costco (and to a lesser extent CC/BB). Fortunately there's enough stores here in SoCal, but it's still a matter of actually getting one. Many stores have just a few and tomorrow most of those will be sold.

Why would shipping scare you? Ordering thru Costco's website will only cost you ~$40 for shipping. I opted for that because I wasn't sure if the TV would fit in our car, and didn't want to fuss with trying to keep the thing upright (recommended position for plasmas because of the glass) during transport. Paul's TV is the only retailer I'm aware of that does free/same day shipping in the L.A. area. Heard that their Black Friday deal is a free Wii or Blu-ray player with any LCD or plasma purchase.

One more question, is there a "dynamic contrast ratio" I should be shooting for? Some are like 30K:1 while others are as low as 1600:1. Does this even matter? Some also mention speed in ms. I know this is an issue when purchasing monitors for our graphic design staff at work, but does it really matter with a TV?

Dynamic contrast ratio is more of a BS figure. The native contrast ratio is closer to reality. The Pannys' "dynamic" contrast ratio is quoted at 1,000,000:1, and doesn't get anywhere near that on real world benchmark tests. LCDs do not test well in this respect because they require a backlight. However, LED backlighting improves the contrast, and I'm sure that when laser backlighting makes its way over to LCD panels, it will improve even more since that will enable purer black levels.

The pixel response time quoted on LCDs is another figure that deserves more scrutiny because it does not necessarily correlate with real world motion resolution tests. All TVs lose resolution when an image is put into motion, and LCDs lose the most resolution. Home Theater magazine did a roundup test last year, and found that the 120 Hz LCDs' motion resolution all tested well under 600 lines (on a 1080p test signal), while the 1080p 60 Hz LCD TV they tested displayed fewer than 400 lines. The 1080p Panny plasmas displayed around 800 lines (their current models will supposedly display 900 lines).

[pixelthis]

I went back to Costco. That Sharp 52" model number is LCC5255U (item #52055), which looks to be a Costco model number. It's selling for $1699.99 - $300 coupon (if they have enough to last by the time I get my turn). It says on the box it's 1080p, but nothing about 120Hz. Does anyone know if it does 120Hz?

BTW, I've been thinking a lot about SD picture quality. If I add a decent upconverting DVD player ('been looking at Panasonic, NAD & Cambridge), then the only SD I'll be watching is upconverted. I know it's not the same as true HD, but if the player does a decent job, then that will be a minor issue. As for TV, I've already deleted all the SD channels from the memory of my Samsung HD OTA tuner, so if the TV has a similar OTA tuner, then that's all I'll be watching. Besides, I'm guessing that after February most OTA-broadcasting stations will make an effort to improve picture quality to keep viewers.

Still that doesn't change how well a TV handles motion, diagonal lines, and pixelation, the three most irritating issues with LCD. When I view an LCD screen I feel like the image is flickering. Plasma has a similar effect, but less so. The edges on plasma look better it seems to have less pixelation.

What scares me about Plasma is the shipping. Mail order is pretty much out of the question, so I need to buy locally and with a good warranty, like they offer at Costco (and to a lesser extent CC/BB). Fortunately there's enough stores here in SoCal, but it's still a matter of actually getting one. Many stores have just a few and tomorrow most of those will be sold.

Anyhow, LCD is still an option, especially at that price. If anyone can give me some specs on that 52" Sharp at Costco, that would help.

One more question, is there a "dynamic contrast ratio" I should be shooting for? Some are like 30K:1 while others are as low as 1600:1. Does this even matter? Some also mention speed in ms. I know this is an issue when purchasing monitors for our graphic design staff at work, but does it really matter with a TV?

Thanks, in advance for all the info.

My set has dynamic contrast, and its usless, really.
Thats because it disables the backlight control, and without that
I get calls from the space station complaining.
As for the other stuff ( pixlization, etc) that is totally made up, if you claim to see such artifacts then you are either telling a story or
delusional, because even if they did exist (which they dont) you wouldnt notice with a 5ms response.
The human eye cant even perceive the 24fps in movies.
AS for plasma its been out for less than a decade, anything as to its longetivty is pure conjecture, truth is, nobody knows.
Where are all of these "projections" of 100,000 hours of life coming from?
Computers.
And that is exactly what they are...projections!

[pixelthis]

BTW, any "pixlization" is going to come from the source, not the display, it happens when the signal gets weak.
liKE "RUNNERS" EKG

[nightflier]

OK, Sonictoothbrush, or whatever your name is, stop derailing this thread. It's 3am and time is of the essence here. It just so happens that I have a raging case of heartburn, so I got up early, but I figured, well then I might as well see what's selling out there, or at least laugh at the lemmings and packrats standing in the cold & rain in front of BB/CC, waiting for some pretty non-existent deals. Anyhow, if you're not going to discuss the topic, then stay the hell out, at least until tomorrow.

As for the other stuff ( pixlization, etc) that is totally made up, if you claim to see such artifacts then you are either telling a story or delusional, because even if they did exist (which they dont) you wouldnt notice with a 5ms response. The human eye cant even perceive the 24fps in movies.

Pix, no need to start insulting. I've seen this pixelation and motion blur on many occasions, both in store and at friend's houses. As a matter of fact, we were watching Rush's new Snakes & Arrows DVD after dinner at a friend's and I could see it clearly. No matter how much you may prefer LCD, the fact is the picture is like a strobe light sometimes, i.e. really irritating. If you can't see it, then I suggest you get your eyes checked. Plasma handles this much better.

Wooch, you were right on the Sharp at Costco, not 120Hz./24fps. However, Sharp's new models have sorted out the banding issues and they include their own version of motion-blur-control that seems to be fairly well reviewed. I've included them below, for comparison. BTW, regarding the shipping of Plasma's I was more referring to when it comes cross-country or is drop-shipped from a distant warehouse by less than reputable delivery people. Also, Costco offers free home delivery, which includes up to 2 flights of stairs, and then for an extra fee "white glove" delivery. Aside from them taking it out of the box, I don't know what the difference is, so I don't know if that's worth the extra $40.

Now I've done a crapload of price comparisons, everything from Crutchfield to Costco, and in my opinion these are the best deals out there (in SoCal, although I'm sure it applies elsewhere too):

Panasonic THC50FD18: Costco (9am), $1400
Panasonic 50PZ80U: Howard's (7am), $1600
Panasonic 50PZ85U: Circuit City (5am), $1700

If you're going to do 52" LCD, here's the best bets. Aside from the Sharps (see note above), these are all 120Hz/24fps native capable sets:

Philips 52PFL7403D/F7: Costco (9am), $1800
Sony KDL52WL140: Costco (9am), $2250
Sony KDL52W4100: Howard's (7am), $2000
Sharp LCC5255U: Costco (9am), $1400
Sharp LC52SB55U: Circuit City (5am), $1500
Sharp LC52D64U: MicroCenter (8am), $1500
Samsung LN52A650: Sears (5am), $2100

By the way, MicroCenter, on the corner of the 55 & 5 freeways is having some pretty good deals as well. If you've struck out with the 5am rush at BB & CC, you might want to wander over there, they open at a more reasonable 8am.

- They are blowing out their Olevia stock, including a 55" screen for $1300. I checked with Olevia (they are local) and they will honor all warranty repairs and will also continue manufacturing TVs, albeit with a different business model (more outsourcing, etc.)
- Philips 47PFL5603D: $1200
- Panasonic 46PZ85U: $1200
- Sony KDL46W4100: $2080
- Samsung LN46A650: $1800

The Sony's not really a good deal, considering the 52" is less, but it's getting hard to find in stock, so I thought I would include it anyhow. There's a ton of lesser Sony's at Sears, CC, and BB, but they didn't meet my specs. BTW, I also found out that in California we also have to pay an $8 recycling fee, on top of 7.75% taxes and delivery, so that does all add to the price. I guess ordering from our of state with free delivery will also save a little money. Anyhow, I'm pretty sure there are other deals out there, but that's all I was able to find in today's paper. I hope it helps someone looking for a large TV.

Well, I'm getting tired again and the baking soda has kicked in. I think I'll wander on over to Costco later and pick up that Panasonic plasma after all. Well, if the kids allow me to get out of the house....