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  1. #1
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    SPL readings On My Unscientific DB SetUp for Denons

    I earlier posted that when I used the SPL meter on my Denon receiver the DB levels using their 75 db test tones produced terrible sound- my DB's from the SPL reading (SPL aimed at the ceiling from my listening position, bass/treble at 0, all extraneous noise from my apartment turned off) were -7, -7, -8 for front speakers, -6 & -9 for rears & -9 for sub. Anyway, when I used the trial and error setting of 0 DB's for all speakers except the sub which is +2, the CD sound for me is fantastic. Shokhead suggested I read what my SPL levels are for these settings. When I then took the SPL settings for "0" on all speakers, +2 for sub I got the following: Front Left 81, Front Center 82, Front Right 83, Rear Right 81, Rear Left 83, Sub 84. What exactly do these numbers mean? Would you recommend tweaking these settings then- if so to what? Would you use the center setting as my foundation and therefore change the settings to +1 for Front Left, 0 Front Center, -1 Front Right, Rear Right +1, Rear Left -1 and Sub -2? Actually I just tried those settings out and they still didn't sound as good as 0 DB's for everything except +2 for sub.
    Last edited by hershon; 04-02-2005 at 03:44 PM.

  2. #2
    Forum Regular paul_pci's Avatar
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    Ideally, they should all register the same (perhaps, excepting the sub), and it sounds like they're all really close. Most people use the main left and right for the reference point and adjust the remaining speakers. If anything, you should definitely equalize the front left and right so that it won't screw up any stereo imaging. Then again, I'll come by next week with the DVD calibration disk and use their test tones which are more accurate and might produce different readings.

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    I tried to get them to 80 then to the Centers 82 Both sucked!

    Maybe I've stumbled unto the Denon Top Secret Code numbers! I decided to try some other methods since it appears I prefer DB's at an SP level over 80 based on my unscientific settings. First since the center read at 82 on the SPL at 0 denon DB settings, I thought why not adjust the Denon DB's on all speakers so they'd match the centers 0. I did that and I got
    +1 FR, 0 Center, -1 FR, Surround Right +2, Sur L -2 & Sub -2. I then listened to my test CD and again it was mediocore at my all natural 5 channel setting- basically I heard the left and right surrounds and the fronts blended in but I wasn't aware of their presence. I then said why don't I use 80 as my SPL level for all the speakers and I got -1 FL, -3 Center, -3 FR, 0 Sur R, -4 Sur L & -3 Sub. Again the sound was similar to the settings above. For some reason my everything at 0 DB setting except +2 for the sub, creates a much more fuller sound at the the all natural 5 channel sound for CD's and both my left, rights and center sound area have now filled the room instead of just the back area with the SPL settings. What is going on?

  4. #4
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    I'll tell you what's going on. You're thinking too much!

    I have a setup method that is very radical and unheard of, but it works for me. It involves the SPL meter..any SPL meter will do. Now take your meter and throw it in the trashcan..okay we're ready. Now we pop in a good 5.1 DVD soundtrack and sit down and use...gulp..our EARS!

    Yes, the best method is to set it where it sounds best to you, no matter what the SPL meter says. That can be very very misleading if you don't fully understand the meter, speaker distances, and room acoustics.

    Also I would think that using a 2 channel CD on '5 channel natural' would probably be the worst thing to use to test sound quality and surround levels. How ironic that '5 channel natural' is the most UNnatural thing you could possibly have??!! You're taking a 2 channel CD and MAKING UP the 3 other channels. NO. NO! WHY?!??! My GOD!

    So, what have we learned here?
    1) Adjust it to where you like the sound. Who cares what some SPL meter says? Does it have ears? Will it be the one listening to the music?

    2) If you want 5.1 channel CD's, get them encoded in 5.1 by getting them on SACD or DVD-A. Don't expect some fake DSP mode to sound good.

    3) To test your 5.1 sound, USE A 5.1 SOURCE!

    Good luck

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    Totally Disagree with You NAbstentia- Your Fired! Just Kidding!

    I totally absolutely uneqivocally disagree with you. Hey, if everything was out on DVD-A at affordable prices I'd replace my normal CD's if I can find the money. I don't see anything unnatural hearing my 2 channel CD on 5.1 channels as long as the music is not being electronically altered (that's called pro logic). You prefer 2 channel sound fine, I don't, as far as I'm concerned there is no right and wrong. But being that I want to listen to 2 channel CD's on 5 channels all naturally, you'd think I therefore would want to listen to this the best way I can. You prefer 2 channel sound therefore it makes no sense to adjust your system for 5 channel natural sound (this is excluding DVD-A's) and vice versa for me!
    Last edited by hershon; 04-02-2005 at 11:10 PM.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Well theres no real difference between Pro Logic and what you're doing. You're taking a 2 channel source and asking a DSP chip to 'make something up' to send to the other 3 channels. Those channels did not exist, they were electronically created..just like Pro Logic.

    And don't get me wrong, that's fine if you like it but calling it 'natural sound' is like saying Pamela Anderson has 'natural boobs'. It's about as fake as you can get

  7. #7
    Audiophile Wireworm5's Avatar
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    Hershon it doesn't matter what db level you are setting your speakers at. What does matter is that all your speakers are at the same db level at your listening postion. If one speaker is louder than the other then that speaker masks the other speaker merely by drowning them out. Assuming that you have calibrated your settings correctly then I have to conclude that your ears haven't adjusted to the more accurate sound presentation. This may take a week or two to re-adust to how things are suppose to sound. Also maybe other settings need to be tweaked on your Denon like delay time to compensate for room size etc..
    However like you I went with my ears for the sub setting, since at equal levels to the other speakers the bass sounded weak. But I have read that the sub is suppose to be 6dbs louder because of the way or ears perceive low frequencies.

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    No This Time You're Wrong NAbstentia I Think, LOL!

    Pro Logic as far as I know takes a 2 channel signal and then electronically changes it into 5 different channels. "5 Channel All Natural Sound" takes a 2 channel signal, puts the same exact signal on the front left and rear left speakers, front right and rear right speakers and for the center channel combines the front left and front right. I don't see how this is really artificially changing the natural sound. I hate implants though!


    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Well theres no real difference between Pro Logic and what you're doing. You're taking a 2 channel source and asking a DSP chip to 'make something up' to send to the other 3 channels. Those channels did not exist, they were electronically created..just like Pro Logic.

    And don't get me wrong, that's fine if you like it but calling it 'natural sound' is like saying Pamela Anderson has 'natural boobs'. It's about as fake as you can get

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    One thing I will acknowledge that is not figured in the equation is, alot of us, including myself,
    have some auditory problems to begin with- several years ago I had a major problem with my ears and had to have them tested and the results revealed (which had nothing to do with the problem at the time which since cured itself) that there was a noticable loss of hearing on one ear. Therefore maybe its possible that if I , or anyone elses hearing isn't naturally balanced to begin with, setting up DB's based on SPL tone testings may not necessarily represent the optimum settings for listening given that.

  10. #10
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    I'll tell you what's going on. You're thinking too much!

    I have a setup method that is very radical and unheard of, but it works for me. It involves the SPL meter..any SPL meter will do. Now take your meter and throw it in the trashcan..okay we're ready. Now we pop in a good 5.1 DVD soundtrack and sit down and use...gulp..our EARS!

    Yes, the best method is to set it where it sounds best to you, no matter what the SPL meter says. That can be very very misleading if you don't fully understand the meter, speaker distances, and room acoustics.

    Also I would think that using a 2 channel CD on '5 channel natural' would probably be the worst thing to use to test sound quality and surround levels. How ironic that '5 channel natural' is the most UNnatural thing you could possibly have??!! You're taking a 2 channel CD and MAKING UP the 3 other channels. NO. NO! WHY?!??! My GOD!

    So, what have we learned here?
    1) Adjust it to where you like the sound. Who cares what some SPL meter says? Does it have ears? Will it be the one listening to the music?

    2) If you want 5.1 channel CD's, get them encoded in 5.1 by getting them on SACD or DVD-A. Don't expect some fake DSP mode to sound good.

    3) To test your 5.1 sound, USE A 5.1 SOURCE!

    Good luck
    Well then if you want to talk about natural sound then you better have super towers all around and no sub. Know what 2 channel stereo is,flat stereo. Whats the last concert you went to that had a stage with speakers on it 6-8 feet apart? There ya go. Everything we have is reproduced,remixed and remastered and stereo. Right,who cares what the spl meter says,i guess,oh most of use is wrong to use it and every rightup in a mag says to use it but i suppose the bottom line is,if it works for ya and it sounds good to you, thats it. Oh,every heard of DTS music disc's? 5.1 music. One more,you say do what sounds best but dont expect some dsp mode to sound good even if he likes it. Which is it? By the way,i'm a dsp mode hater but i do use 5 channel stereo,kinda fills the room up abit more.
    Look & Listen

  11. #11
    Forum Regular anamorphic96's Avatar
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    Dolby Pro Logic is only 4 channels. Left,Center,Right and surround. The surround channel is mono. It takes the left and right and any inofrmation that is both identical in both amplitude and phase is routed to the Center. Information encoded with a disteinct phase shift is routed to the surround channel.

    Pro Logic II and IIx are variations on this and capable of matrixing out more channels.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Well then if you want to talk about natural sound then you better have super towers all around and no sub.

    Yep, that's my preferred setup. My 2 channel system is Paradigm Active 40's with no sub. The Active's actually outperform most subs I've heard.


    Know what 2 channel stereo is,flat stereo. Whats the last concert you went to that had a stage with speakers on it 6-8 feet apart?

    When's the last time I've had to provide sound for 10,000 people in my living room?


    Oh,every heard of DTS music disc's? 5.1 music.

    Yes, I have about 20 of them.

    One more,you say do what sounds best but dont expect some dsp mode to sound good even if he likes it. Which is it? By the way,i'm a dsp mode hater but i do use 5 channel stereo,kinda fills the room up abit more.
    There's a huge difference in descrete multi channel audio and some fake DSP that 'fills up' the missing information.

    Again, I'll use our friend Pamela as an example. If you like that, fine. I prefer them natural and not plastic. DSP is plastic. Fake. False.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    Pro Logic as far as I know takes a 2 channel signal and then electronically changes it into 5 different channels. "5 Channel All Natural Sound" takes a 2 channel signal, puts the same exact signal on the front left and rear left speakers, front right and rear right speakers and for the center channel combines the front left and front right. I don't see how this is really artificially changing the natural sound. I hate implants though!
    So what's the difference? The source is 2 channel, the result is 6 channels. In between there is some digital magic that makes up the information that WAS NOT THERE to begin with.

    I'm not saying it's a bad thing, if you like it then that's great! But calling it 'natural' is just wrong. Saying it's not digitally altered is wrong.

  14. #14
    DIYaudiophilehack
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    Hershon- Are you trying to achieve good sound in A) Dolby Digital 5.1 B) Pro Logic (II or IIx) C) 5 channel stereo? It sounds like you're trying to get good sound from a 2 channel source reproduced in 5 channel stereo.

    If you want multi channel music playback from a 2 channel source that loosly mimics DD 5.1 or DVD-A/SACD, just choose Pro Logic (II or IIx) Music setting on your receiver (assuming it has that option).This assumes output levels are where the manufacturer suggests for DD 5.1 set up, I believe 85db @ 0db reference.

    If you want to entertain yourself or others while moving about the room, then try the 5 channel stereo, as that was what it was intended for. Don't expect that 5 channel stereo will sound anything like DD 5.1, DVD-A/SACD, Pro Logic (II or IIx) or any other configuration you can think of, it's not supposed to.

  15. #15
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    I'll tell you what's going on. You're thinking too much!
    Word on that.

    I have a setup method that is very radical and unheard of, but it works for me. It involves the SPL meter..any SPL meter will do. Now take your meter and throw it in the trashcan..okay we're ready. Now we pop in a good 5.1 DVD soundtrack and sit down and use...gulp..our EARS!
    Actually it is heard of, but it is plain wrong. Our ears can tell us what sound good or bad, but they are lousy measuring devices. Soundtracks are dynamic sources which change frequently over time. Also soundtracks are sure to stimulate frequencies that cause room modes and nodes. With the information changing so rapidly from second to second, it is impossible to use a soundtrack to balance your system. Our ears cannot tell use that one speaker is 1-2 decibals off unless at least two channels are playing together. With two channels playing together you are hearing a sum of the two channels, instead of what is going on in each channel.

    Yes, the best method is to set it where it sounds best to you, no matter what the SPL meter says. That can be very very misleading if you don't fully understand the meter, speaker distances, and room acoustics.
    Everyone speaks of setting up speaker distances equidistantly. Room acoustics aside it is hard to know what sounds best with no reference. A SPL meter provides a base reference to which you can set things where it sounds best to you. If the only person that listens to your hometheater is you, then adjusting for personal taste only is cool. If you have guests, then possibly your own reference(without the benefit of accurate measuring devices) may not sound very balanced or good to them.

    Also I would think that using a 2 channel CD on '5 channel natural' would probably be the worst thing to use to test sound quality and surround levels. How ironic that '5 channel natural' is the most UNnatural thing you could possibly have??!! You're taking a 2 channel CD and MAKING UP the 3 other channels. NO. NO! WHY?!??! My GOD!
    Agreed.

    So, what have we learned here?
    1) Adjust it to where you like the sound. Who cares what some SPL meter says? Does it have ears? Will it be the one listening to the music?
    The microphone in a SPL meter is probably more accurate in terms of measuring amplitude than our ears are. A accurate meter measures linearly across the entire frequency range of hearing. Our ears do not. Studio playback chains are calibrated, so why shouldn't home playback chains be also.

    2) If you want 5.1 channel CD's, get them encoded in 5.1 by getting them on SACD or DVD-A. Don't expect some fake DSP mode to sound good.
    Word!

    3) To test your 5.1 sound, USE A 5.1 SOURCE!

    Good luck
    Agreed
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  16. #16
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    There's a huge difference in descrete multi channel audio and some fake DSP that 'fills up' the missing information.

    Again, I'll use our friend Pamela as an example. If you like that, fine. I prefer them natural and not plastic. DSP is plastic. Fake. False.
    No kidding. I dont think i was trying to say anything about 5 ch stereo being the same as multi-channel audio,was i? 5 channel stereo is ok if you like it,i do. I like DTS misic disc's better and some DVD-A and SACD are even better. The whole HT thing is reproduced,come on. The only natural thing is at the concert or recording studio. Just a question,how many of you only have 2 speakers in your car? Thats what i thought.
    Look & Listen

  17. #17
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    One thing I will acknowledge that is not figured in the equation is, alot of us, including myself,
    have some auditory problems to begin with- several years ago I had a major problem with my ears and had to have them tested and the results revealed (which had nothing to do with the problem at the time which since cured itself) that there was a noticable loss of hearing on one ear. Therefore maybe its possible that if I , or anyone elses hearing isn't naturally balanced to begin with, setting up DB's based on SPL tone testings may not necessarily represent the optimum settings for listening given that.
    You know it depends on if you hearing loss was global, or frequency based. If you hearing loss was global, then only the speakers that shade that side of the head would be effected. If it was only frequency based, then you would only experience a inbalance when the frequencies effected are presented to the ear.

    Whatever hearing problem that was in play, the system should still be balanced as a whole, and then adjusted to taste after that. Got to have a foundation to build a building right?
    Sir Terrence

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  18. #18
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    Toenail, NAbstentia & All Let Me Make Myself Perfectly Clear,Trust Me Felow Americans

    I should clarify that most of my posts to begin with are in reference to CD's not DVDs which I'm not that picky over. In the case of CD's, as opposed to DVD-A's, for my hearing, as Shokhead I think implied, "All Natural 5 channel & sub sound" fills up my room and ears much more so than say either 2 speaker or 2 speaker and a sub sound, as for me, personally, it gives the music more depth. Why it does so, I can not give a technical and/or scientific explanation for. When I used the SPL settings, albeit digital, against: 1. Denon test tones using a 75 db set up, 2. Denon test tones using an 80 db set up and finally Denon test tones using the DB for the center speaker as ground 0, the sound when listening to my 5 all natural channel mode, still sounded much better when listening to CD's when I set all of my 5 satellite speaker DB levels to 0 and my sub to +2. The difference in all these settings with my unscientific one is my unscientific one gave the music much more depth while the SPL settings seemed to reduce the "soundstage" to one spot. I'm willing to concede I might be able to get different DB results with a "DVD tester" which I'm hoping Paul PCI can do and will also try analogue & digital readings. As I truly am not a stubborn masochist, if the settings from one of these tests produces better 5 channel CD sound, I'll use those settings instead of my 0 db & +2 for my sub. As Far as I'm concerned, prologic, Matrix, etc., changes the sound & this mode doesn't (or if technically it does, it does so in a way I can accept it).


    Quote Originally Posted by toenail
    Hershon- Are you trying to achieve good sound in A) Dolby Digital 5.1 B) Pro Logic (II or IIx) C) 5 channel stereo? It sounds like you're trying to get good sound from a 2 channel source reproduced in 5 channel stereo.

    If you want multi channel music playback from a 2 channel source that loosly mimics DD 5.1 or DVD-A/SACD, just choose Pro Logic (II or IIx) Music setting on your receiver (assuming it has that option).This assumes output levels are where the manufacturer suggests for DD 5.1 set up, I believe 85db @ 0db reference.

    If you want to entertain yourself or others while moving about the room, then try the 5 channel stereo, as that was what it was intended for. Don't expect that 5 channel stereo will sound anything like DD 5.1, DVD-A/SACD, Pro Logic (II or IIx) or any other configuration you can think of, it's not supposed to.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    No kidding. I dont think i was trying to say anything about 5 ch stereo being the same as multi-channel audio,was i? 5 channel stereo is ok if you like it,i do. I like DTS misic disc's better and some DVD-A and SACD are even better. The whole HT thing is reproduced,come on. The only natural thing is at the concert or recording studio. Just a question,how many of you only have 2 speakers in your car? Thats what i thought.
    Well not to nitpick here (yeah right!) but if you consider car speakers like you would home speakers then I just have two speakers in my car...left & right. Of course there is a sub, but that's only because the 5" speakers in the doors produce no bass. It's there, it's just not in the same location.

    So really now that you mention it, my car system is just like my home system! Only difference is that the drivers in my home system are all in the same box. But if you want to talk individual drivers, my home 2 channel system has SIX drivers while my car only has FIVE drivers..and this is my former IASCA competition setup

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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    I earlier posted that when I used the SPL meter on my Denon receiver the DB levels using their 75 db test tones produced terrible sound- my DB's from the SPL reading (SPL aimed at the ceiling from my listening position, bass/treble at 0, all extraneous noise from my apartment turned off) were -7, -7, -8 for front speakers, -6 & -9 for rears & -9 for sub. Anyway, when I used the trial and error setting of 0 DB's for all speakers except the sub which is +2, the CD sound for me is fantastic. Shokhead suggested I read what my SPL levels are for these settings. When I then took the SPL settings for "0" on all speakers, +2 for sub I got the following: Front Left 81, Front Center 82, Front Right 83, Rear Right 81, Rear Left 83, Sub 84. What exactly do these numbers mean? Would you recommend tweaking these settings then- if so to what? Would you use the center setting as my foundation and therefore change the settings to +1 for Front Left, 0 Front Center, -1 Front Right, Rear Right +1, Rear Left -1 and Sub -2? Actually I just tried those settings out and they still didn't sound as good as 0 DB's for everything except +2 for sub.
    Hershon,
    I've just read over all of these posts and I'd like to chime in if you don't mind. I think where you may be going astray is that you are balancing your speakers so that they will be set correctly to play sources mixed for 5.1 reproduction, but then you are using a 2 channel source to audibly test the results. It doesn't matter that it is the "5 channel stereo" mode or "natural sound" or whatever else you want to call it. It is still a derrived 5 channel mix of a 2 channel source. What you need to be doing in order to test your speaker balancing results is listening to something mixed for 5.1 sound reproduction. Balance your system per SPL meter and then... and I know this is a novel idea... put on a DVD with a 5.1 soundtrack in DD or DTS! How does it sound? If it sounds good, which it should, then you have accomplished all that you were suppose to accomplish by this setup. These test disc or even the test generators on your receiver have NOTHING to do with setting up 5 channel stereo. For me, ALL such DSP mode have to be set by ear and they usually DO NOT match the settings made by SPL measurements for a 5.1 source. There is nothing wrong with using those settings as a base line to start with but chances are none of the DSP modes are going to sound at thier optimum when left at those settings. I assume that you realize you can set seperate levels for each of these DSP modes like 5 channel stereo, matrix, jazz club, etc... Unless things have changed with Denon, you are able to set individual levels for each of these modes. The only exception to doing this would be the Pro Logic modes as they are meant to produce a matrixed 5.1 surround sound which does require speakers balanced by SPL meter. Is this making any sense to you? I hope so. I think you are really confusing yourself by trying a test method which does not correspond to the original setup criteria. Setup the receiver as we have already described for your DVD and other 5.1 soundtracks, then... set the individual levels for the other DSP modes by ear to your taste. That's what I've been doing for years and it works perfectly well. I think it will work for you too.

    Q

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    Thanks Quagmire but I'm a little confused & think you may be misunderstanding how Denon asks to set up its DB's. On Denon, they have a 6 seperate channel (all speakers plus sub) "graph" if you want to call it, that goes from -12 to +12 DB's which goes up by increments at 1. A person starts with everything set on the chart at 0 DB's. You are then suppose to use an SPL, set at Slow and "C" and one channel on the chart at a time keep increasing or decreasing the db's on the chart till the test tones emmitted on the chart (which go louder for every increment upwards etc. & downwards for every decrease)bring about an SPL reading of 75. You then move to the next channel etc. & do the same thing and so forth. When you are finally done, each channel goes to 75 on the SPL, you press enter and these become your new DB levels on the receiver. The volume put out by the test tones can not be varied by the receivers volume and as an added precaution I have bass/treble set at 0.

    Are you trying to say that these levels are perfect when I watch a surround sound 5 channel DVD but if I then try to play a 2 channel CD, regardless of whether I listen to it
    at 2 speaker sound, 2 speaker and a sub sound, 5 speaker and a sub natural sound, etc.,
    the db's set by the above test will not be applicable and hence they are only applicable to
    DVD's played at either dolby digital or DTS on 5-7 speakers & a sub?


    Quote Originally Posted by Quagmire
    Hershon,
    I've just read over all of these posts and I'd like to chime in if you don't mind. I think where you may be going astray is that you are balancing your speakers so that they will be set correctly to play sources mixed for 5.1 reproduction, but then you are using a 2 channel source to audibly test the results. It doesn't matter that it is the "5 channel stereo" mode or "natural sound" or whatever else you want to call it. It is still a derrived 5 channel mix of a 2 channel source. What you need to be doing in order to test your speaker balancing results is listening to something mixed for 5.1 sound reproduction. Balance your system per SPL meter and then... and I know this is a novel idea... put on a DVD with a 5.1 soundtrack in DD or DTS! How does it sound? If it sounds good, which it should, then you have accomplished all that you were suppose to accomplish by this setup. These test disc or even the test generators on your receiver have NOTHING to do with setting up 5 channel stereo. For me, ALL such DSP mode have to be set by ear and they usually DO NOT match the settings made by SPL measurements for a 5.1 source. There is nothing wrong with using those settings as a base line to start with but chances are none of the DSP modes are going to sound at thier optimum when left at those settings. I assume that you realize you can set seperate levels for each of these DSP modes like 5 channel stereo, matrix, jazz club, etc... Unless things have changed with Denon, you are able to set individual levels for each of these modes. The only exception to doing this would be the Pro Logic modes as they are meant to produce a matrixed 5.1 surround sound which does require speakers balanced by SPL meter. Is this making any sense to you? I hope so. I think you are really confusing yourself by trying a test method which does not correspond to the original setup criteria. Setup the receiver as we have already described for your DVD and other 5.1 soundtracks, then... set the individual levels for the other DSP modes by ear to your taste. That's what I've been doing for years and it works perfectly well. I think it will work for you too.

    Q

  22. #22
    Audiophile Wireworm5's Avatar
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    I am not familiar with the Denon either. But on my Yamaha the speaker settings will be different for each soundfield. You have to save the parameter settings for each soundfield. If I calibrate my speakers for 6 channels stereo this will not be the optimal setting for 70mm Spectacle soundfield .Maybe the Denon has this feature as well with a different name?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wireworm5
    I am not familiar with the Denon either. But on my Yamaha the speaker settings will be different for each soundfield. You have to save the parameter settings for each soundfield. If I calibrate my speakers for 6 channels stereo this will not be the optimal setting for 70mm Spectacle soundfield .Maybe the Denon has this feature as well with a different name?
    As far as I know: 1. The settings are not for one particular sound field, 2. You can not save
    different sound fields ot inputs, thus if you have to have a different dbs when watching TV & hearing TV sound as opposed to say hearing the CD, you will have to manually change the settings.
    Last edited by hershon; 04-04-2005 at 06:55 AM.

  24. #24
    Audiophile Wireworm5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    As far as I know: 1. The settings are not for one particular sound field, 2. You can not save
    different sound fields DBA, thus if you have to have a different DBA when watching TV & hearing TV sound as opposed to say hearing the CD, you will have to manually change the settings.
    Those are inputs, soundfields are like Rock, Hall, movie surround, disco. Does your Denon have soundfields?

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    I am familiar with Denon owning an AVR-3300 myself. There are several misconceptions here I will try to clear up as to why differnet level and formats may sound different.

    First you stated your original settings as (L) -7, (C) -7, (R) -7, (RL) -6, (RR) -9 and sub -9. Just turning the volume control 7db will give you (L) 0, (C) 0, (R) 0, (RL) 1, (RR) -2 and sub -2 which is very close to what you say is giving you better sound (all levels at 0db with the sub @ +2). The Radio Shack analog meter requires +4db of compensation in the bass because it reads 4db low. Adding these corrections provide compensated levels of (L) 0, (C) 0, (R) 0, (RL) 1, (RR) -2 and sub 0 which is not that much different than original except you now have the bass corrected.

    The differences in levels and sound could also be associated with room boundaries and materials. A speaker setup in a corner will sound different than one in open air because walls will reinforce some frequencies more than others. Soft or hard surfaces surrounding the speaker will also affect the sound. Also, different receivers handle bass management differently. I know on my Denon the sub is not on in the "Direct" format, but is during the Stereo, 5-channel Stereo and other DSP formats. This may also account for some of your difference is sound.

    The comments about testing using a two channel source with multi-channel formats is also valid. A two-channel source playing in a Dolby Pro Logic format will have derived center (L+R) and surround (L-R) channels. The surrounds will not be full range since DLP limits the range to 100Hz-7000Hz and the surrounds are mono not discrete. Dolby Digital has all full-range channels except for the ".1" sub channel and the surrounds are discrete.

    Because of strange differences in sound I very seldom use the DSP formats, they either have too little clarity, too much echo, or too much bass. They were cool at first, but lost their attraction quickly. Hope this helps.

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