Receiver cutting off, HELP

[Glen B]

I need some advice and expert opinons. I'll run through the brief history of events.
I recently purchased a Yamaha RX-V673 for my home theatre system, but once I connected the unit and began to adjust it, I found out that when I turned the volume to around +8, the unit would turn itself off if there was any sharp sound effect such as gun shots. Or if I was playing music at that volume, it would eventually blow out and turn itself off. There wasn't any damage and the unit would turn right back on, but it would continously happen. Granted, it would not happen if the volume remained around 0. The range of the volume went from -45 to +16.
Now I don't have a $10,000 system. I have Infinity Primus 360 speakers. I tried using banana clips to ensure the speaker wires weren't touching. No change.
So eventually I returned the unit to an online company who tested it and said everything is fine with the unit. And that he had tested it all the way up to 70% of the max volume. I responded that he needed to turn the volume to about +8 and watch the beach landing scene from Saving Private Ryan and that the unit would cut off within the first minute. He immediately responded by telling me that the unit is NEVER supposed to be operated above 0 volume. And that the distortion is what is causing the unit to turn itself off. Sound like a load of BS to you? Because when I turned the unit to +10 while it was working listening to satellite music it was crystal clear. Absolutely no distortion.
Prior to this unit I had a Harmon Kardon AVR325 which I could turn the volume to the max and it would function flawlessly and was clear. And it was louder than the Yamaha.
So my questions in addition to anything I've asked above are the following:
1. Is this guy lying through his teeth? I cannot turn the volume above 0?
2. Are my expectations to high? Should you never operate a unit at max volume?
3. What are some comparable models for the RX-V673?
4. Also, is there a problem with operating a 7.2 capable receiver in 5.1 configuration (two front towers, two rear surrounds, center channel and sub)?

Thank you in advance for any assistance.

As I suspected, your speakers may seem like a benign load with their 8 ohm rating, but are actually presenting a very difficult load to your receiver, causing it to go into protection mode. I searched for and found a review and bench test of the Infinity 360 in Stereophile Magazine that reveals why.

Although the Infinity 360 is rated at 8 ohms nominal, its impedance drops well below 4 ohms in critical areas of the audio band, and also presents a quite severe phase angle to the driving amplifier. What the latter means, is that impedance and phase are out of sync at several points in the audio frequency band, making it a taxing load for the driving amplifier.

You either need an amp that can drive low impedances with no problems, or get different speakers. The Infinitys seem exceptional for the price, and you would need to spend a lot more to get speakers that sound better. An external amp driven from the receiver preouts may be a better solution.

Here is the quote from the Stereophile bench test:

"However, with an impedance magnitude that drops below 4 ohms in the lower midrange and high treble and an electrical phase angle that is extreme in the upper bass (fig.1), the speaker needs to be partnered with an amplifier or receiver that can drive low impedances with aplomb. (The combination of 5.2 ohms and –45º phase angle at 93Hz will tax amplifiers rated at 8 ohms.)"

Solid line is impedance, dotted line is phase.

[Mr Peabody]

Translated, in the end Dolby Tru HD and DTS-MA are supposed to be the same as the original master soundtrack, once decoded no compression. "Lossless" nothing lost.

Lossy soundtracks are soundtracks

that are data reduced to get more information on the disc. DTS and Dolby

Digital are lossy encoder/decoders, and these sound formats are exclusively used on DVD and streaming. These tracks do not sound like the original masters they are encoded from, and are a little less dynamic than loss-less tracks.

Loss-less soundtracks have no data removed, and is found in the form of DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD. To reduce the size of the audio data stream, Dolby is zipped up in a data reduced "wrapper" during encoding, and unzipped at the other end back to the original PCM file. DTS MA is transmitted as a core(for backwards compatibility), with metadata stacked on top which is the remaining loss-less data. These two formats are found on Bluray disc.



There is no effect at all. With the additional channels unused, you might have more dynamic power going to the channels that are. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[PaBowHunter340]

So you understand what I mean by challenging. For twenty minutes straight you have full power gunshots, deep loud bass in the main channels to 30hz, loud bass to 40hz in the surrounds, and bass to 17hz in the LFE. This is what I saw from the RTA's on each channel in my system while watching the movie last night. There were quite a few occasions where the power meters jumped to 100+ watts coming from the L/R mains, hence why I knew you were running your mains on large.

Mr. T:
After re-connecting the HK AVR325 I determined that my TV has enough HDMI inputs that I can actually use the HK AVR325 if I choose to do so. I only connect a PS3 and DirectTV receiver to the TV (or AVR if I could). So I may just leave the HK AVR325 in place. Heck, it sounds great. I don't get to play with all of the new technology such as the connectivity to the www and such, but I also have a spare $500 in my pocket. More than likely I'll conduct a slow search for the replacement for the HK. I do like gadgets.
In addtition to all of the other great information I've learned from the responses in this thread, your suggestion to change my front main speakers to SMALL has really made a difference in the sound quality for both music and movies. I literally had to turn the power down on my sub to about 10-20%. I have a BIC-America Acoustech PL200. Not a very expensive sub, but it's getting the job done. Prior to switching my mains to small, I was forced to turn the power on my sub up to about 45%.
I think the only negative (and I'm not sure it's a negative yet) I can see is that the sub is delivering so much of the low frequencies that it's almost difficult to finely tune the correct amount of power to the sub via the power knob on the rear of the sub. Adjusting the power knob on the rear of the sub has become much more precise. I suppose that's a good problem to have. I like it this way so far. Thanks........

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Mr. T:
After re-connecting the HK AVR325 I determined that my TV has enough HDMI inputs that I can actually use the HK AVR325 if I choose to do so. I only connect a PS3 and DirectTV receiver to the TV (or AVR if I could). So I may just leave the HK AVR325 in place. Heck, it sounds great. I don't get to play with all of the new technology such as the connectivity to the www and such, but I also have a spare $500 in my pocket. More than likely I'll conduct a slow search for the replacement for the HK. I do like gadgets.

Man, I am glad this all worked out for you. Here is my only rub. You have the PS3, one of the finest sounding Bluray players on the market, and the best you will be getting out of it is the older lossy codecs. A cheap DVD player would get you the same. The PS3 has the best lossless decoding algorithms in the business, and it would be a shame to let it go to waste by using the HK. However, I am really glad you are considering upgrading to a more modern receiver in the future.

In addtition to all of the other great information I've learned from the responses in this thread, your suggestion to change my front main speakers to SMALL has really made a difference in the sound quality for both music and movies. I literally had to turn the power down on my sub to about 10-20%. I have a BIC-America Acoustech PL200. Not a very expensive sub, but it's getting the job done. Prior to switching my mains to small, I was forced to turn the power on my sub up to about 45%.
I think the only negative (and I'm not sure it's a negative yet) I can see is that the sub is delivering so much of the low frequencies that it's almost difficult to finely tune the correct amount of power to the sub via the power knob on the rear of the sub. Adjusting the power knob on the rear of the sub has become much more precise. I suppose that's a good problem to have. I like it this way so far. Thanks........

Sure. Another tip for the $500 dollars saved. Get you a sound level meter like this one

Sound Level Meter Radio Shack 33-2055 on eBay!

It is infinitely easier to match your subs with you mains with this meter. It is impossible to do by ear, I assure you. When you are ready to buy another receiver, make sure you find one with Audyssey built in. Not only does it correct any abnormalities with your speaker/room interactions, but it time and phase aligns the sub and the mains for better integration and coherence.

You will be in Hometheater heaven after all of this.

[PaBowHunter340]

So the codecs in the HK are older and substandard to the codecs the PS3 are currently utilizing? And this will negatively effect the sound quality coming from the PS3?
I'll order the sound meter tomorrow when I have a chance to shop around on the WWW. But I've found a new one for $50.
Can you explain how the meter assists in matching the sub to the mains? What is Audyssey? What does it do? And what are some examples of AVR's that have Audyssey?
Thanks again.......

*UPDATE: I did some quick research and came up with the following AVR with Audyssey.
1. Onkyo TX 717 or 818 $584.00 to $880.00.
2. Denon AVR2313Ci $900.00
3. Marantz SR5007 $850.00.

Now obviously the Onkyo is much cheaper than the the other two, but cost isn't going to be my only consideration. I've never owned an AVR from any of these companies. And the Marantz has me intrigued. I don't know why. Maybe because I don't know anybody that has a Marantz. You know how it is: First kid on the block with a new toy.
What do you think of these three selections? Please take into consideration that I will mostly be using the AVR for home theater use. And that my speakers may limit the capabilities of the AVR's music sound quality.
Although I have considered shopping around for some new speakers. Klipsch?

Also, I see you have an OPPO BDP-103 and a PS3. I currently have a PS3 which I use as my Blu Ray player. I rarely listen to music via my player. It is mainly used for movies and occasionally a game.
Is there an advantage to buying an OPPO BDP-103? Is the quality of the video better? The 3D? I see I can get an OPPO for about $500 on Amazon.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

So the codecs in the HK are older and substandard to the codecs the PS3 are currently utilizing? And this will negatively effect the sound quality coming from the PS3?

I would have to say yes to this. Your HK supports lossy DTS and Dolby Digital, two codecs that came to DVD back in 1997. The PS3 does lossless DTS HD MA, and Dolby TrueHD, two lossless codecs that came to Bluray in 2006 via the PS3. To my ears, the lossy codecs sound lifeless, sound stage more narrow, and they sound less natural than the lossless codecs.

I'll order the sound meter tomorrow when I have a chance to shop around on the WWW. But I've found a new one for $50.
Can you explain how the meter assists in matching the sub to the mains? What is Audyssey? What does it do? And what are some examples of AVR's that have Audyssey?
Thanks again.......

The HK has a enternal pink noise generator that moves the pink noise from channel to channel. You use the meter to measure the output of each channel, and use your AVR's individual channel volume to adjust each channel until they are all the same volume. When you get to the subwoofer, you raise the volume about 3-4db's louder than you mains. The mains should read 75db on each channel, and the subwoofer should read 78-79db.

*UPDATE: I did some quick research and came up with the following AVR with Audyssey.
1. Onkyo TX 717 or 818 $584.00 to $880.00.
2. Denon AVR2313Ci $900.00
3. Marantz SR5007 $850.00.

Personally I would go for the TX 818 because it has the most sophisticated version of Audyssey. Both the Denon and Marantz are great as well.

Now obviously the Onkyo is much cheaper than the the other two, but cost isn't going to be my only consideration. I've never owned an AVR from any of these companies. And the Marantz has me intrigued. I don't know why. Maybe because I don't know anybody that has a Marantz. You know how it is: First kid on the block with a new toy.
What do you think of these three selections? Please take into consideration that I will mostly be using the AVR for home theater use. And that my speakers may limit the capabilities of the AVR's music sound quality.
Although I have considered shopping around for some new speakers. Klipsch?

Depending on which Klipsch speakers you choose, they are just fine. However, I would not worry about speakers that much, what you have is just fine.

Also, I see you have an OPPO BDP-103 and a PS3. I currently have a PS3 which I use as my Blu Ray player. I rarely listen to music via my player. It is mainly used for movies and occasionally a game.
Is there an advantage to buying an OPPO BDP-103? Is the quality of the video better? The 3D? I see I can get an OPPO for about $500 on Amazon.

If you are going to watch Bluray movies, there really is no difference between the Oppo and PS3. I keep a PS3 in my system because it is just better at streaming, and gives the highest quality Netflix and Amazon streaming of any player aside from the Sony BD790. Not to mention my PS3 plays SACD's.

[Mr Peabody]

The Onkyo would have the closest drive power to the HK