Receiver cutting off, HELP

[PaBowHunter340]

I need some advice and expert opinons. I'll run through the brief history of events.
I recently purchased a Yamaha RX-V673 for my home theatre system, but once I connected the unit and began to adjust it, I found out that when I turned the volume to around +8, the unit would turn itself off if there was any sharp sound effect such as gun shots. Or if I was playing music at that volume, it would eventually blow out and turn itself off. There wasn't any damage and the unit would turn right back on, but it would continously happen. Granted, it would not happen if the volume remained around 0. The range of the volume went from -45 to +16.
Now I don't have a $10,000 system. I have Infinity Primus 360 speakers. I tried using banana clips to ensure the speaker wires weren't touching. No change.
So eventually I returned the unit to an online company who tested it and said everything is fine with the unit. And that he had tested it all the way up to 70% of the max volume. I responded that he needed to turn the volume to about +8 and watch the beach landing scene from Saving Private Ryan and that the unit would cut off within the first minute. He immediately responded by telling me that the unit is NEVER supposed to be operated above 0 volume. And that the distortion is what is causing the unit to turn itself off. Sound like a load of BS to you? Because when I turned the unit to +10 while it was working listening to satellite music it was crystal clear. Absolutely no distortion.
Prior to this unit I had a Harmon Kardon AVR325 which I could turn the volume to the max and it would function flawlessly and was clear. And it was louder than the Yamaha.
So my questions in addition to anything I've asked above are the following:
1. Is this guy lying through his teeth? I cannot turn the volume above 0?
2. Are my expectations to high? Should you never operate a unit at max volume?
3. What are some comparable models for the RX-V673?
4. Also, is there a problem with operating a 7.2 capable receiver in 5.1 configuration (two front towers, two rear surrounds, center channel and sub)?

Thank you in advance for any assistance.

[Mr Peabody]

Definitely no receiver or amp is made to run at full volume. If the amp distorted (clipped) the protection would kick in. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary about Primus, the model I checked showed 8 ohms and 88 dB which is safe, shouldn't require high current. What you may want to do is get a receiver with preamp outputs and add an external power amp to drive the main speakers, this not only gives more quality power to the mains but lightens the receiver's load on the power supply.

I need some advice and expert opinons. I'll run through the brief history of events.
I recently purchased a Yamaha RX-V673 for my home theatre system, but once I connected the unit and began to adjust it, I found out that when I turned the volume to around +8, the unit would turn itself off if there was any sharp sound effect such as gun shots. Or if I was playing music at that volume, it would eventually blow out and turn itself off. There wasn't any damage and the unit would turn right back on, but it would continously happen. Granted, it would not happen if the volume remained around 0. The range of the volume went from -45 to +16.
Now I don't have a $10,000 system. I have Infinity Primus 360 speakers. I tried using banana clips to ensure the speaker wires weren't touching. No change.
So eventually I returned the unit to an online company who tested it and said everything is fine with the unit. And that he had tested it all the way up to 70% of the max volume. I responded that he needed to turn the volume to about +8 and watch the beach landing scene from Saving Private Ryan and that the unit would cut off within the first minute. He immediately responded by telling me that the unit is NEVER supposed to be operated above 0 volume. And that the distortion is what is causing the unit to turn itself off. Sound like a load of BS to you? Because when I turned the unit to +10 while it was working listening to satellite music it was crystal clear. Absolutely no distortion.
Prior to this unit I had a Harmon Kardon AVR325 which I could turn the volume to the max and it would function flawlessly and was clear. And it was louder than the Yamaha.
So my questions in addition to anything I've asked above are the following:
1. Is this guy lying through his teeth? I cannot turn the volume above 0?
2. Are my expectations to high? Should you never operate a unit at max volume?
3. What are some comparable models for the RX-V673?
4. Also, is there a problem with operating a 7.2 capable receiver in 5.1 configuration (two front towers, two rear surrounds, center channel and sub)?

Thank you in advance for any assistance.

[markw]

+8 db? How loud do you listen?

The difference between music and movies is that music is compressed, with almost no peaks in loudness, while movies depends on those wide dynamic swings in order to sell the action scenes. Thst would explain wy it doesn't happen on music, only movies.

Final analysis: You're asking to much from that, or any, unit. The tech was on the right track.

[PaBowHunter340]

Well, while I admit that I am fairly ignorant on this issue, I did have a Harmon Kardon AVR325 hooked up to the exact same set up (except the sub) and never had any issues with distortion or cutting out. And I don't normally listen at +8 db. I was simply stretching the legs of my new receiver to hear the limits of it's ability. I suppose you are all correct though. The unit is on the way back. When it arrives I will switch back and forth from the old HK and the new Yamaha and compare the clarity and volume. I still think there may be an issue with the unit. But thank you for your assistance.

[Mr Peabody]

I am not familiar with what HK is doing now for HT receivers but their stereo receivers used to be high current and wide frequency range, Yamaha has a decent sound but their amp sections are not what I'd consider strong, seems they stretch the specs where HK is very conservative. I remember selling HK rated at 35 or 45 watts, costed twice as much as some of the competition at 100 watts, people would sort of bauk until they heard the HK shame the competition.

[StevenSurprenant]

This isn't news to most people, but many times the power ratings on surround receivers is rated for one channel driven. The power supply can't handle the rated power when all channels are driven. This is reminiscent of the time (in the 70's) when they would rate amps in terms of instantaneous peak power. A 30 watt amp might be rated at 500 watts because it could produce that output for 1 microsecond (both channels added) before depleting it's power capacitors.

Once I was reviewing a 30 watt Pass Labs amp (class A) so I put it on one channel and a Carver 60 Watt/RMS amp on the other. The Carver was peaking out, but the Pass Labs was still clear as a bell (at the same volumes).

Realistically, it doesn't matter how loud an amp will play, only that it will play as loud as you need it to play. This means that if your amp will make your speakers put out 110db it doesn't matter if you only listen at 90db.

In my system, I only have a 6 Watt amp with 91db speakers. In surround mode, I set my mains to small and send the bass to the sub. It plays as loud as I can stand it and the bass vibrates the entire house. I'm guessing here, but without the bass going through my mains, I can achieve over 100db with those 6 Watts. When playing music, I doubt that I normally ever use more than a watt or two and that is without a sub.

I suppose that I should tell you that many years ago I was doing what you are doing. I had a 80 Watt amp and speakers rated at 350 Watts RMS for each side. I ended up clipping the bass which sent harmonics through the next smaller speaker up in the chain and blew it out. I learned my lesson the hard way.

The whole point is, don't concern yourself with how loud your amp will drive your speakers, only that it drives them loud enough for what you need and it sounds good doing so.

Mr. Peabody gave you good advice if this remains a problem for you. Lighten the load on your Yamaha's power supply.

[Glen B]

I need some advice and expert opinons. I'll run through the brief history of events.
I recently purchased a Yamaha RX-V673 for my home theatre system, but once I connected the unit and began to adjust it, I found out that when I turned the volume to around +8, the unit would turn itself off if there was any sharp sound effect such as gun shots. Or if I was playing music at that volume, it would eventually blow out and turn itself off. There wasn't any damage and the unit would turn right back on, but it would continously happen. Granted, it would not happen if the volume remained around 0. The range of the volume went from -45 to +16.
Now I don't have a $10,000 system. I have Infinity Primus 360 speakers. I tried using banana clips to ensure the speaker wires weren't touching. No change.
So eventually I returned the unit to an online company who tested it and said everything is fine with the unit. And that he had tested it all the way up to 70% of the max volume. I responded that he needed to turn the volume to about +8 and watch the beach landing scene from Saving Private Ryan and that the unit would cut off within the first minute. He immediately responded by telling me that the unit is NEVER supposed to be operated above 0 volume. And that the distortion is what is causing the unit to turn itself off. Sound like a load of BS to you? Because when I turned the unit to +10 while it was working listening to satellite music it was crystal clear. Absolutely no distortion.
Prior to this unit I had a Harmon Kardon AVR325 which I could turn the volume to the max and it would function flawlessly and was clear. And it was louder than the Yamaha.
So my questions in addition to anything I've asked above are the following:
1. Is this guy lying through his teeth? I cannot turn the volume above 0?
2. Are my expectations to high? Should you never operate a unit at max volume?
3. What are some comparable models for the RX-V673?
4. Also, is there a problem with operating a 7.2 capable receiver in 5.1 configuration (two front towers, two rear surrounds, center channel and sub)?

Thank you in advance for any assistance.

As I suspected, your speakers may seem like a benign load with their 8 ohm rating, but are actually presenting a very difficult load to your receiver, causing it to go into protection mode. I searched for and found a review and bench test of the Infinity 360 in Stereophile Magazine that reveals why.

Although the Infinity 360 is rated at 8 ohms nominal, its impedance drops well below 4 ohms in critical areas of the audio band, and also presents a quite severe phase angle to the driving amplifier. What the latter means, is that impedance and phase are out of sync at several points in the audio frequency band, making it a taxing load for the driving amplifier.

You either need an amp that can drive low impedances with no problems, or get different speakers. The Infinitys seem exceptional for the price, and you would need to spend a lot more to get speakers that sound better. An external amp driven from the receiver preouts may be a better solution.

Here is the quote from the Stereophile bench test:

"However, with an impedance magnitude that drops below 4 ohms in the lower midrange and high treble and an electrical phase angle that is extreme in the upper bass (fig.1), the speaker needs to be partnered with an amplifier or receiver that can drive low impedances with aplomb. (The combination of 5.2 ohms and –45º phase angle at 93Hz will tax amplifiers rated at 8 ohms.)"

Solid line is impedance, dotted line is phase.