Are Pioneer, Panasonic Recievers Crap?

[paul_pci]

My basic answer: snobs, and proud of it.

My extended answer (with underlying snobbery): Your question is not so much about objective quality across brands and price ranges, but about marketing and how markets are divided up and how brands and price ranges demarcate separate but still overlapping markets. For instance, Consumer reports targets a mass market, so yeah, Panasonic will emerge a victor, but not necessarily king. Sound and Vision has less of a mass market appeal, yet I would argue some overlapp with Consumer Reports. But when you open up Stereophile, obviously we are not in Kansas anymore. So, what you are hearing is the rhetoric of market-coding which acts similar to class coding. (Cars would be a good analogy here). I wrote in a previous thread about Best Buy vs. Magnolia Audio that it seemed given Magnolia's stock, they were trying to appeal to a different market than BB, but given my experience of crappy and uninformed customer service and their suspect inclusion of Bose, that their attempt to appeal to a different market ultimately fails. I set up a friend of mine with a basic surround package, including a lower end of the line Yamaha receiver that I started out with and he's happy with it. I told him I just bought some new speakers and he said I was crazy and there would be no difference in sound. Of course, there's a difference in sound, but the point is that our exchange arises because we're in two different makets for audio equipment. In our highly commericialized and consumer culture, all us of are susceptible to desire a self-image that comes with buying certain brands in certain price ranges. I would argue that it is impossible to set aside concerns of image and which market you wish to belong to in the process of analyzing receiver quality differences. One can only be aware of this factor and limit its power in the decision making process.

[kexodusc]

My basic answer: snobs, and proud of it.

My extended answer (with underlying snobbery): Your question is not so much about objective quality across brands and price ranges, but about marketing and how markets are divided up and how brands and price ranges demarcate separate but still overlapping markets. For instance, Consumer reports targets a mass market, so yeah, Panasonic will emerge a victor, but not necessarily king. Sound and Vision has less of a mass market appeal, yet I would argue some overlapp with Consumer Reports. But when you open up Stereophile, obviously we are not in Kansas anymore. So, what you are hearing is the rhetoric of market-coding which acts similar to class coding. (Cars would be a good analogy here). I wrote in a previous thread about Best Buy vs. Magnolia Audio that it seemed given Magnolia's stock, they were trying to appeal to a different market than BB, but given my experience of crappy and uninformed customer service and their suspect inclusion of Bose, that their attempt to appeal to a different market ultimately fails. I set up a friend of mine with a basic surround package, including a lower end of the line Yamaha receiver that I started out with and he's happy with it. I told him I just bought some new speakers and he said I was crazy and there would be no difference in sound. Of course, there's a difference in sound, but the point is that our exchange arises because we're in two different makets for audio equipment. In our highly commericialized and consumer culture, all us of are susceptible to desire a self-image that comes with buying certain brands in certain price ranges. I would argue that it is impossible to set aside concerns of image and which market you wish to belong to in the process of analyzing receiver quality differences. One can only be aware of this factor and limit its power in the decision making process.

Ugghh...freshman marketing revisted

Great post, paul_pci, though I would respectfully submit that you can further subdivide the population into 2 groups...those that do care about which "class" they belong too, and those that really don't (and probably a third: those that aren't even aware there are separate classes or markets for this stuff).

Then there's those that spend more time reading about, talking about, arguing about, shopping for, and preaching about than actually using the equipment they have....

[shokhead]

CR is more for general public and the real A/V mags are for the more,in the know public. There are people that can care less about cars,bicycle and A/V and others that care alot more.You can divide them into class or just caring more about something then rewg joe blow.

[markw]

Or. if you do, go by THEIR needs, not OUR expectations.

I think is where this thred has been heading but just wanted to firm up that direction.

I've got a lady friend who is a traveling missionary. She doesn't have much money (she has to do her own fund raising), travels extensively (from those funds) but does love music when she's home. Likewise, she does some serious entertaining as well.

So, what did I recommend for her? An $80 Sherwood two channel unit from Best Buy. It's not the latest tech but it does have a buncha FM presets (if ya can figger out how to set 'em!), a remote control and enough extra inputs so she can play her DVD/VCR through it when she's doing presentations and simply entertaining friends. I got her some closeout Advent Jade tower speakers about 5 years ago and they sound quite nice.

A few years ago she went out and bought (without asking) their $80 KLH stereo receiver forthesame price as the Sherwood. Wotta POS. It stopped working a few months ago. Enterthe Sherwood.

Not an impressive hi buck system, but for it's intended audience it's more than enough to satisfy. ...and it's dirt cheap as well.

My stepson has two kids in a tiny apartment in the city. HE picked up a Panasonic HE-100 (?) receivertwo yearsago and it's more than keeping him happy. HE's got a set of tiny Panasonic speakers (and a small powered sub) running off of it and, you know what? In that room, it sounds pret-ty durn nice. Anything more in that room would be a waste.

So, I'd say some prodicts hit smack dab in the middle oft their intended market. To try to "talk up" someone to someone else's standards (mine, for instance) is something that I've always tried to stay away from. Find their needs and work within those constraints.

To spend more of a friend's money than you need to for them to achieve happiness and satisfaction is abusing a friendship.

And, you know what? Whenever I'm at their places and listen to music or watch a movie I don't analyze their sytems. They are both more than adequate sound wise so I can simply relax and enjoy the show.

[Defshep]

WOW! Information overload! I gotta tell you, this is definitely the place for lively discussion. This has all been very helpful, and everyone makes some pretty good points. I think I can safetly say that as long I have to double my family room as my HT room, Pioneer will probably suit my needs. But when I'm rich (no longer in radio), I'll have my dream system. I can be happy with a mid level setup for now, though. Can I still hang with you guys? Can't we all just get along?

[Weister42]

WOW! Information overload! I gotta tell you, this is definitely the place for lively discussion. This has all been very helpful, and everyone makes some pretty good points. I think I can safetly say that as long I have to double my family room as my HT room, Pioneer will probably suit my needs. But when I'm rich (no longer in radio), I'll have my dream system. I can be happy with a mid level setup for now, though. Can I still hang with you guys? Can't we all just get along?

I own two Technics amplifier and I have never had a problem with it, the silver one is about 25 years old and running at 2 ohm stereo for my subs! Technics is a subdivision of Panasonic and their products are excellent for the price, the new receivers all carry the Panasonic badge even though Technics and Panny are made by the same company. IMO Technics and Panasonic are great deals with real world power, and they look great!

Ya just go out and try to find a gold and a silver aluminum-faced receivers...goooooood luck

[shokhead]

I own two Technics amplifier and I have never had a problem with it, the silver one is about 25 years old and running at 2 ohm stereo for my subs! Technics is a subdivision of Panasonic and their products are excellent for the price, the new receivers all carry the Panasonic badge even though Technics and Panny are made by the same company. IMO Technics and Panasonic are great deals with real world power, and they look great!

Ya just go out and try to find a gold and a silver aluminum-faced receivers...goooooood luck

What is real world power?