Need advice purchasing new TV

[strodog]

I will be moving in the middle of May and need advice picking a widescreen HDTV to begin my first home theater. I'm debating between LCD-projection, DLP, and HD-ILA. I want something at least 42", but no larger than 52". Also, I'm looking for something with an HDMI input, and preferably, a PC input.

My price point is $2500-$3000, but I could also spend as high as $4000-4800 if something MUCH better is out there, such as Plasmas and LCDs. (i.e. Sharps 37" AQUOS.. a little small, but if it's MUCH better than anything else (CRTs), I'd consider it).

Also, I'll be looking in mid-May until early July, so I was wondering if anything worthwhile would come on the market in the meanwhile.

Thanks.

[hershon]

If just a great HD Picture is your main concern as well as the TV looking good, you can get a great rear projection 48" widescreen HD Ready Mitsubishi WS-48315 for about $1600 or possibly less including delivery if you shop around. I have this set and its the best TV I've ever had. The picture is perfect (If you get it do not fool around with the picture settings its perfect at the factory settings). It fits in perfectly in my living room. With the money left over from your budget you can use to get: 1. An extended warranty, 2. A great universal remote, 3. Orb Audio Speakers & a sub, a better receiver, a DVD recorder, etc.

Of course, if you'd rather have a plasma or LCD, you'll obviously pay a great deal more, so just set your priorities. Good luck.

[paul_pci]

Mitsubishi just announced new DLP models boasting 1080i/(p, I think also) with a new color chip. They look like promising, latest tech models. Check them out.

[strodog]

I definitely don't want a CRT RPTV. IMO, they seem blurry (much worse than CRTs) and are hard to watch in lighted rooms. The price is not really an issue (up to $5k) but I want something that looks nice and is at least 42" wide.

What is the general consensus with CRT, CRT-RPTV, LCD-projection, DLP, DILA, LCD, and Plasma. There's so many TVs to choose from, and I'm not sure what is better for what. I don't want high replacement/maintenance costs, and I read DILA had problems (is that true) and DLPs have alot of moving parts. I could afford entry level 42" LCD and Plasmas, but are they worth it?

Also, for picture quality alone, what is as good or better than the Sony 34" CRT widescreen HDTV at 42"-52"?

I'm a little confused. Thanks.

[hershon]

I don't agree with your assessment on my 48" Mitsubishi TV if that is applicable but to each their own. If money isn't a limitation for you, I'd buy the best looking HD Plasma that you see with the best picture. This means not going to places like Best Buy, Circuit City, Good Guys, etc., to determine what's available but going to some place that specializes in high end/big screen HD TV's (and audio stuff) like Ken Craine's in LA. Stores like these have salesmen who know their stuff and have all the TV sets set up properly and running (so they'll all have some kind of widescreen HD TV Show running on their screens) not like the knuckleheads at the aforementioned type places that probably have non HD shows at4:3 being shown on their 16:9 widescreen TV's etc. Anyway, from there put together a list of which are your favorites, do some more research and then see where you can buy it the cheapest. Whatever you do, don't buy a TV without seeing it first.

[paul_pci]

The most popular formats today seem to be the LCD projection tvs and DLPs, but that doesn't necessarily translate into the best picture quality. I think they are the most popular because they offer the most value, big screen, great picture, and you don't have to rob a bank to afford one.

[Mr Peabody]

My mom just bought a Mitsubishi 55" widescreen, old tech reat projector. Although it has a good picture compared to others of the same technology it doesn't compare to my Toshiba DLP, at twice the money. DLP was my choice of technology. The DILA was more expensive and the picture was not that much better if at all. Plasma, I feel is on it's way out, it's still very expensive and I don't see that the picture is that much better than a good DLP. With DLP you have to replace the bulb but I can't remember after how many hours.

If you do find anything that looks as good as the Sony 34" in a large screen let me know! I have the 30" widescreen Sony and it's the best picture I've ever seen.

Please do your research on HDMI, it's not what they say it is. Maybe some day it might evolve but for now it's just a digital version of an analog RF connector. Don't listen to me or anyone else, do what I done and ask the manufacturer they'll admit it. DVD players only output 2.0 audio on HDMI and I haven't found one yet that will upscale copy guarded DVD's which makes that feature virtually useless. Save some time and money and stick with progressive scan through component connectors.

When I was looking for my TV I saw a very cool Samsung that was like on a pedestal but it was part of the TV and the pedestal had built in touch controls. Sony was supposed to introduce it's LED screens in the U.S. this summer but I haven't heard anything more about it and the price was closer to $10k.

I have been very happy with my Toshiba DLP and give it high recommendations. It offers everything you want except a PC input. The regular line has 1 HDMI and the Cinema line offers 2.

Don't be afraid to go into the menu and see what these sets picture settings are as you look at them. You also find out how easy they are to use and if they offer different preset picture settings like Sony and Toshiba do. If one store has Sony set to "Cinema" and another on "Vivid" they will not look like the same TV.

[edtyct]

Mr. Peabody will expect this, but I have to go on record to disagree with his assessment of video HDMI. (BTW, what do "they say it is" that isn't true?) Upscaling is a reality, even a measurable one, even if it can't be called high definition per se. TVs and video processors routinely do it, and digital DVD players are capable of it as well. Please do ask your local manufacturer. Copy protection is either analog or digital (HDCP). Component outputs cannot upconvert copyprotected DVDs because of analog encryption. HDCP was invented to take care of the task for digital media. Because HDCP is in place, DVDs can be upscaled on a digital platform without fear of duplication. An HDCP-compliant DVD player cannot upconvert, or otherwise send a digital signal, unless the target device is also HDCP-compliant.

[Mr Peabody]

ank you for contacting us with your inquiry.

The DVP-NS975V DVD Player is able to take conventional DVD video signals and upconvert them to stunning, high-definition 720p or 1080i images. The upconverted digital signals are available only through the HDMI connection, which minimizes data loss or additional video noise that can occur with analog connections.

However, this DVD Player do not upscale the video signals of the DVDs that are copy protected.
--------------------------------------------------------
Response (Phil) - 01/31/2005 11:44 AM
Thank you for contacting us with your inquiry.

Here's one admission from a Sony employee

[edtyct]

Good. A copy-protected DVD refers to a DVD that has undergone one of the analog encryption schemes licensed by DVD producers and hardware manufacturers. The most effective and most widely implemented version is Macrovision's ACP (Analog Copy Protection), which adds information to the MPEG video stream of the disk itself, thereby either preventing it from being copied in a watchable form or being copied at all. This is a purely analog scheme. HDCP does not copy-protect DVDs per se. It applies strictly to transmission of a digital signal between a source device and a target device, which analog protection cannot stop. If the DVD player is HDCP-compliant and sends the tricked signal to a target that does not have the receiving key for it, the signal does not transmit. If the target device is HDCP-compliant--meaning that it is equipped with the necessary decoding--the signal will go through. This is only copy protection of a disk in an indirect manner, as opposed to the direct manner imposed by ACP. ACP's irrelevance to digital transmission is the very reason why HDCP was born. If the target device has the correct HDCP key, it can upconvert an HDCP signal until the cows come home. If it doesn't, it's Katy bar the door. That's why your Sony rep made the distinction between upconverted digital signals available only via HDMI, as opposed to disks in their analog copy-protected state, which cannot undergo this process because of their very nature. As I said before, disks that have not been copyprotected with ACP, or one of the other less efffective schemes, can be subject to upconversion through component outputs, but there are so few of them that the players actually equipped to do the job have very few takers. The Bravo D1 and D2 are the most famous examples, but they are generally known for their excellent upconversion through DVI--the first of its kind below $300. Incidentally, digital upconversion is simply an incidental by-product of the HDMI/HDCP standard. By July of this year, every device that handles a digital signal must be HDCP compliant in order to protect content providers' digital broadcasts through STBs, other tuners/receivers, and DVRs to make sure that they are not intercepted by the wrong parties. Again, without the HDCP key, such broadcasts or signals would be useless to an unauthorized receiver.

Ed

[LEAFS264]

OOOOOHHHHHH baby I'm frreeeee. Hershon I'm sorry.That last post of ours went way to far. I was wrong. It won't happen again.

Anyway, as most of you know I have a Toshiba 52hm84 DLP and I love it!!! No rainbow effects at all(For me at least anyway) So if your still looking, you should give it a close look. I looked for ever. And read all kinds of crap on every type of display,and when it was all settled,the Toshiba was the best picture that I could see in MY price range. There are always going to be better pictures....new tech will see to that. But my tv has a self replace bulb and HDMI inputs,so I'm future proofed for a little while I hope.


Jay

[s dog]

I definitely don't want a CRT RPTV. IMO, they seem blurry (much worse than CRTs) and are hard to watch in lighted rooms. The price is not really an issue (up to $5k) but I want something that looks nice and is at least 42" wide.

What is the general consensus with CRT, CRT-RPTV, LCD-projection, DLP, DILA, LCD, and Plasma. There's so many TVs to choose from, and I'm not sure what is better for what. I don't want high replacement/maintenance costs, and I read DILA had problems (is that true) and DLPs have alot of moving parts. I could afford entry level 42" LCD and Plasmas, but are they worth it?

Also, for picture quality alone, what is as good or better than the Sony 34" CRT widescreen HDTV at 42"-52"?

I'm a little confused. Thanks.

I dont kown my 57'' TOSHIBA HD RPTV picture looks very nice and clear, ture it does look better in a darken room but i had this tv delivered and set up for $1800.00 bucks pretty good price for a 57'' HDTV with set up and delivery, I do like the LCDs also but cannot spend that much money at this time.

[shokhead]

New S&V mag has some nice TV stuff in it.

[topspeed]

What is the general consensus with CRT, CRT-RPTV, LCD-projection, DLP, DILA, LCD, and Plasma. There's so many TVs to choose from, and I'm not sure what is better for what. I don't want high replacement/maintenance costs, and I read DILA had problems (is that true) and DLPs have alot of moving parts. I could afford entry level 42" LCD and Plasmas, but are they worth it?

Also, for picture quality alone, what is as good or better than the Sony 34" CRT widescreen HDTV at 42"-52"?

I'm a little confused. Thanks.

Strodog, everyone is a little confused right now! You take the plethora video options (dlp, lcos, crt, lcd), mix in connection possibilities (s-vid, component, dvi, hdmi), and throw in a dash future tech (BluRay, HD-DVD, true HD 1080p TV's), bake for 30 minutes at 350 degrees and you end up with a seriously bad taste in your mouth.

I'm looking for exactly the same thing you are and from what I've learned, every format has their own set of assets and liabilities. Here's the Reader's Digest version of it:

*CRT*
Good: Best picture, hands down. Best blacks, best grey scale, best contrast, little or no artifacts, old tech makes it as reliable as the sunrise.
Bad: Big & heavy, limited picture size, can't hang on a wall, old tech makes it as cool as Death Valley.

*CRT-RPTV*
Good: Cheapest, all of the attributes of regular crt plus a place to put your cc but...
Bad: Ginormous, hate bright environments, bad off-axis, need to be calibrated, fewer choices as everyone move to flat panel.

*LCD*
Good: Slim, light, wall mountable, relatively inexpensive, good whites, excellent detail, lots of choices
Bad: Screen door effect, relatively poor contrast ratio & only fair black levels, cheaper sets have lots of artifacts, bulb burn out, off axis is only fair

*DLP*
Good: Slim, light, wall mountable, relatively inexpensive, excellent whites, good blacks, better contrast ratios than LCD, lots of choices, better in areas with lots of ambient light than LCD
Bad: Rainbow effect (if you can see it), lots of moving parts, motor noise in some sets, bulb burn-out, off-axis is good but not as good as...

*Plasma*
Good: Slim, light, wall mountable, excellent contrast ratios, best off-axis picture, cool factor, best for high ambient light rooms
Bad: If some pixels go bad, you're screwed unless you replace the whole thing, run hot, burn-in, bring your wallet.

*LCoS/D-ILA*
Good: Slim, light, wall mountable, relatively inexpensive (except Sony), excellent whites and blacks, contrast ratio better than LCD but not as good as plasma, punchy & seemless picture, good for high ambient light rooms.
Bad: Well, there is that problem of catching fire, if that's important to you...

In response to what offers a better pic than your 34" crt Sony? The answer is a new crt WEGA. CRT's offer, technically at least, the best possible picture. I've found shopping for tv's to a lot like buying speakers: you buy what looks best to you. For my room, both my wife and I uniequivocally chose the D-ILA. Why? To us, it offered the most realistic colors, best brightness, and overall best picture while also, and this is paramount, generating the least amount of glare. Our living room is almost all glass on the side and back walls therefore those clear plastic covers that everyone loves to put on their sets creates a giant mirror to reflect all that glass. Ugh.

Of course, then AR member Dean Martin was nice enough to provide a link to the JVC recall for that little spontaneous combustion problem they have. Oops.

Therefore I'm quietly waiting for the second gen D-ILA's due to be released in May or June or I may go to a Mits or LG dlp. The SDE of LCD's is really visable to me, especially during football games where there's a lot of action all at once, so I've ruled them out.

Hope this helps.

[hershon]

As I said I think on an earlier reply, I have a 48" Mitsubishi WS-48315 HD (Ready) Widescreen TV & the picture is fantastic and it looks great too. Best TV I ever had. You can get something like that for around $1600 with tax and shipping, give or take. If you get TV service from the cable company they'll provide you with an HD receiver/tuner and/or an HD DVR for a very small charge. If you have a $4,000 or higher budget, I'd get a Plasma though.

Strodog, everyone is a little confused right now! You take the plethora video options (dlp, lcos, crt, lcd), mix in connection possibilities (s-vid, component, dvi, hdmi), and throw in a dash future tech (BluRay, HD-DVD, true HD 1080p TV's), bake for 30 minutes at 350 degrees and you end up with a seriously bad taste in your mouth.

I'm looking for exactly the same thing you are and from what I've learned, every format has their own set of assets and liabilities. Here's the Reader's Digest version of it:

*CRT*
Good: Best picture, hands down. Best blacks, best grey scale, best contrast, little or no artifacts, old tech makes it as reliable as the sunrise.
Bad: Big & heavy, limited picture size, can't hang on a wall, old tech makes it as cool as Death Valley.

*CRT-RPTV*
Good: Cheapest, all of the attributes of regular crt plus a place to put your cc but...
Bad: Ginormous, hate bright environments, bad off-axis, need to be calibrated, fewer choices as everyone move to flat panel.

*LCD*
Good: Slim, light, wall mountable, relatively inexpensive, good whites, excellent detail, lots of choices
Bad: Screen door effect, relatively poor contrast ratio & only fair black levels, cheaper sets have lots of artifacts, bulb burn out, off axis is only fair

*DLP*
Good: Slim, light, wall mountable, relatively inexpensive, excellent whites, good blacks, better contrast ratios than LCD, lots of choices, better in areas with lots of ambient light than LCD
Bad: Rainbow effect (if you can see it), lots of moving parts, motor noise in some sets, bulb burn-out, off-axis is good but not as good as...

*Plasma*
Good: Slim, light, wall mountable, excellent contrast ratios, best off-axis picture, cool factor, best for high ambient light rooms
Bad: If some pixels go bad, you're screwed unless you replace the whole thing, run hot, burn-in, bring your wallet.

*LCoS/D-ILA*
Good: Slim, light, wall mountable, relatively inexpensive (except Sony), excellent whites and blacks, contrast ratio better than LCD but not as good as plasma, punchy & seemless picture, good for high ambient light rooms.
Bad: Well, there is that problem of catching fire, if that's important to you...

In response to what offers a better pic than your 34" crt Sony? The answer is a new crt WEGA. CRT's offer, technically at least, the best possible picture. I've found shopping for tv's to a lot like buying speakers: you buy what looks best to you. For my room, both my wife and I uniequivocally chose the D-ILA. Why? To us, it offered the most realistic colors, best brightness, and overall best picture while also, and this is paramount, generating the least amount of glare. Our living room is almost all glass on the side and back walls therefore those clear plastic covers that everyone loves to put on their sets creates a giant mirror to reflect all that glass. Ugh.

Of course, then AR member Dean Martin was nice enough to provide a link to the JVC recall for that little spontaneous combustion problem they have. Oops.

Therefore I'm quietly waiting for the second gen D-ILA's due to be released in May or June or I may go to a Mits or LG dlp. The SDE of LCD's is really visable to me, especially during football games where there's a lot of action all at once, so I've ruled them out.

Hope this helps.

[edtyct]

The reasons not to go with a plasma automatically are the ones that Topspeed gave, and they will matter to many people who can't avoid 4:3 and don't pay close attention to how they treat the screen. One option just around the corner that will appeal to those of us who love CRTs but can't stand the amount of real estate and avoirdupois that go along with them is the new SED technology, which features CRT-like phosphers but trims the cabinet down to microdisplay size. SED will carry a premium price tag, but early reports of the 55" Toshiba, which will be the first to arrive late this year, are immensely favorable. Say hello again to good black levels, but expect to pay as much as $6000 for them.

Ed

[topspeed]

Hershon,
My budget is $4-5k. CRT RPTV's won't work in my room due to high ambient light levels. With the amount of glass I have, it's like a flippin' sun room in there. Plasma is, as Ed noted, a pass for me because of the reasons given. It's either LCoS or DLP for this speed demon. Thanks for the input tho.

Ed,
OK drummerboy, WTH is SED? Are these the true HD sets I've been reading about and considering the available technology, should it matter to me if I can go 1080p instead of 720p native?

[Geoffcin]

I will be moving in the middle of May and need advice picking a widescreen HDTV to begin my first home theater. I'm debating between LCD-projection, DLP, and HD-ILA. I want something at least 42", but no larger than 52". Also, I'm looking for something with an HDMI input, and preferably, a PC input.

My price point is $2500-$3000, but I could also spend as high as $4000-4800 if something MUCH better is out there, such as Plasmas and LCDs. (i.e. Sharps 37" AQUOS.. a little small, but if it's MUCH better than anything else (CRTs), I'd consider it).

Also, I'll be looking in mid-May until early July, so I was wondering if anything worthwhile would come on the market in the meanwhile.

Thanks.

There's an artical where they list ALL of the TV's in the size your looking at. I didn't realize how many there were!

[edtyct]

OK drummerboy, WTH is SED? Are these the true HD sets I've been reading about and considering the available technology, should it matter to me if I can go 1080p instead of 720p native?

Okay, here's the skinny (pun intended, you'll see why) on SED (Surface-conduction Electron-Emitting Display). It's a joint venture between Canon and Toshiba that uses the same phosphors as CRT, but instead of actual cathode ray tubes with three electron guns at the far end, the SED's phosphors have their own electron emitters right next door. The upshot is that SEDs have the depth of a flat panel and need far less power than any of the competing technologies. Toshiba recently did a comparative demo for the press, and the reports were all glowing. The contrast ratio was gigantic (on the order of 8000:1) and not because of exaggerated brightness but because of true black. The refresh rate was fast enough to leave no hint of a trail behind moving objects, and color space was broad and subtle. Burn-in will still be a slight factor, but not as great as with CRT's. Yes, Toshiba's first rollout will feature a 1920x1080 55" screen, and it will be more expensive than similar-sized plasmas. If I had any money, I'd be an early adopter this fall without hesitation.

Under the right circumstances, full 1920x1080p is undoubtedly superior to 720p and 1080i. You only have to multiply to see its advantage in pixel count. However, 2,073,600 pixels or scan lines require a lot of real estate; if they were possible for small displays, the eye couldn't resolve the size of the individual pixels, anyway. The smallest display capable of it now is a 45" LCD flat panel, which isn't all that big; much bigger rear projection LCDs and LCos units are poised to start hitting the market soon. But remember, these monitors are going to have to do a lot of scaling with normal material to fill their screens, not a recipe for good images. Plus, many of these big screens require more viewing distance to keep the picture elements, and invevitable flaws, out of sight. If you don't have the room, or the tolerance for artifacts (as you seem not to), then the full pixel complement is hardly an advantage. When most broadcasting is at 1080p (don't hold your breath; most of it isn't even at 1080i yet), then 1080p will be the resolution for everyone. At this point, however, 720p and 1080i have their utility, negative as it may be, and they can look awfully good. Reviews of Sharp's 45" flat-panel LCD are not overwhelmingly positive despite its 1920x1080p. A lot of other factors are at work--dithering, scaling, and deinterlacing--in addition to any deficiencies in the color decoders and the source components.

Ed

[amarmistry]

Check out new Mitsubishi Diamond series DLP-WD-52825. It has built-in 120GB PVR also.