Help with helping a friend building a sound system

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=OzzieAudiophile][pixelthis]

[QUOTE]Blasting a technology/method is not quite the same as blasting someone personally]Not a good point if you have to sidestep what you're trying to argue.

Just stating facts

[pixelthis]

My orginal point was not intended to list every format that has been out, and will be out, it would of taken days to write.

So you just left out the lossless ones.
CUTE.

Your normal normal method of operation is to look for absolutely anything that anyone has missed in any post and have a go is it ? Rather than provide actual constructive
criticism

?

lEAVING out the advantages of something isnt "missing" something, its casting blame by ommision

[pixelthis]

Of course the original points affect "Playback", stupid or not, people are still most capable of doing the above, no matter how much their love to store their precious]flac (or any other music) files onto their PC.

I'm not

So what ? Scratch on CD ? you can rule that as stupidity. Many CD players are still capable of playing CDs that have scratches on them. As if the CD players will
cheese-grate CDs. It's not even surface scratches which cause CD players to skip,
more than the dirt/grime on the disc. However it doesn't occur to some people to
keep their discs clean. It even states in some CD player manuals to advise the
owner to keep their discs clean, with even instructions on how to wipe them.

Doesnt matter how the scratches got there.
I used to play my CD's IN A CAR, no way to avoid some scratches

Troubleshooting sections raise some checkpoints to handle stupidity issues
I.e. No power on CD player.

1. Check that you have plugged in the player.
]2. Check that you have pressed the power button on the front panel to the on position.

DUH!
When does class start on how to flush a toilet?

Anyone who's at least half knowledgable with Windows know that Microsoft's largest group of software testers are "the end consumer". That's what patches and service
packs are for. The help file is althrough improving, but many errors give the
user the option to "send to Microsoft", which is as helpful as putting a bush fire out with]a can of petrol.

Never had any trouble with my XP

Just how is a Blue Screen of Death - Stupidity ? Just how in the world are you suppose to avoid every possible type of Blue Screen of Death occurance ? Your point is based that software and hardware on a PC will NEVER break down, or become damaged.

Never had" the blue screen of death", not once.
What kind of one lung computer are you using?
AND EVERYTHING IS BACKED UP, btw

blackraven raised a good point - Hard drive failure, as much care you can take, when those go, you risk losing much more, than some lousy scratches on 1 CD, where
only the songs on that CD are affected instead of the rest of your music collection.

THATS WHY YOU BACK STUFF UP

Kodak have released archival CDs and DVDs that claim files copied on there will last 300 years for CD, 100 for DVD. Certainly 99% longer than some other dodgy
brands. There are also many other formats and alturnatives to hard drive, many that
are more stable than hard drives.

SOUNDS GREAT FOR BACKUPS
And HD is bocoming more stable every year, and files are retreivable from a crashed drive

[pixelthis]

You will get plenty of causes for pauses of reading music off PCs and/or streaming files off the net, or networked PC/Server. Pretty much some of those cause are
the ones I listed above.

NOT ANYMORE

Played FLAC off a USB drive, haha, USB. I'll leave that to you to figure it out for yourself how to fix that. And NO not by necessarily changing to CD instead

.

It was going to make space on a HD for my music files, but its working fine as a server itself.
With a 470mps of datarate it should be

[pixelthis]

And taking at least reasonable care of your CDs, DVDs, anything on disc does NOT apply to someone with a brain ?

The best way to take care of them is to burn them to HD and store them, they make great backups.
I used to record my vinyl with a NAD cassette deck, save the records for listening sessions. Same thing

There's many ways to mistreat, and not take care to store discs in their cases etc.For many people who have a large CD collection, most would take at least some
reasonable care of their discs because they value the time/money they spent buying them
Should they encounter a disc which is unplayable on their player, that's 1 in 100, or 1000.
Even then, that doesn't mean that disc cannot play on another player.
There are even disc scratch repairers and cleaners.

Good luck with those

Your argument is justifying that disc players should be robust enough to play a disc regardless on how the discs themselves are mistreated by the user, that
the problem will always be the player, never the user.

Thats not my argument at all, it doesnt matter how the scratch got there,
its still a detriment to playback.
Ever piss off a woman who knows you're into audio?
FIRST thing they go for is the CD collection.
OF course thats better than the few that tried to kill me

That is the same as saying you should still be able to start your car and drive down to the shop regardless on how poor condition you've kept the engine.

Its going to break on you no matter how good you take care of it, and it doesnt matter if its your fault, you still wont get to the store

Whilst at the same time any flac setup will be more reliable and stable, and that if it doesn't work, it's "stupidity".

YOU GOT IT ACE.
AN alien once told CAPT Kirk that he had passed a test they had given him.
"well, what about my dead crew members" ? he asked
THEY told him that "flying around in space " wasnt for sissies"
Same with home audio, and especially HOME COMPUTERS

No matter how good you claim your flac files are, or any other file you can rip off a disc, no matter how technology progresses, there element of "stupidity" will always
be there. You can always count of computer illiterate people who make "stupidity"
mistakes than a CD player skip a section of 1 disc due to a bad scratches, and
dirt

.

I HAVE BEEN AROUND THIS STUFF since before you were a stain on your dads bathroom wall.
And I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE too "stupid" to use a CD player, much less a computer.
I cant be bothered by by such, like the ape in 2001 I am just going to take my new toys and enjoy them without worrying about the great unwashed.
They will suffer the fate they always have
[pixelthis]

So you actually expect every CD player to actually play a totally "rotted" CD ?

They wont play it, doesnt matter what I "expect"

That's the same expectation from people whinge to their mechanic as to why their car has broken down. Then it is found that they never changed their oil and
filter

.

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO CHANGE THOSE?

[pixelthis]

Sorry, you cannot speak for everyone on this planet. Not everyone is going to throw away their precious CD, DVD, Vinyl, cassette collections just to buy an iPodish
flac player. Go ahead, to your backyard start a fire and throw your disc collections in.

NO, THEY WILL PUT THEM UP AT GARAGE SALES, trying to make a few bucks.
And why burn them? They make great backups
[pixelthis]

You obviously never met a vinyl enthusiast. Try to convince them that their vinyl is worthless, here's a flac drive, use this, they'll send their dogs on you to rip that
precious little flac drive to pieces.

Guess I had better get down to the pet store, I DIDNT KNOW VINYL ENTHUSIAISTS
were required to have flac drive ripping to pieces dogs.
I have a nice vinly collection, a tad small, I lost a thousand in a flood, but do you
have pristine discs you bought new in 1974?
I thought not
[pixelthis]

There will always be overlooked and least understood issues in home audio, regardles on what the issue is.

??? I need to hook you up with a guy named sir talky

Not everyone will be totally aware of every issue, technology in home audio.[ I'm sure a large proportion of home audio people find that their priority is mainly
listening pleasure.

Those people were hunted down and killed decades ago.
Nowadays the main priority is spending thousands on crap like power cords, cables,
and tube amps that can't perform as good as a radio out of a 1934 Sears catalog

How that is achieved due to equipment is one thing, as long as they have their means to listen to their music, where it sits on the shelf, or what sector in their
PC, doesn't matter to them.

Because they misplace it and forget they own it in about a week
[pixelthis]

With the increasing proportion of overweight and obese people in the world, it would do them a favour if they got up and changed discs haha.

Now I know you're not an American
[pixelthis]

CAN ? sometimes. Always ? definately not. Most of the highest quality CD players are single disc players as opposed to disc changers. Research the build on the top
end models you will notice they are heavier, better quality circuitary, and more circuitary
is used due to the more space available in the unit, which is not taken up by the rest
of the tray.

The most expensive players are single tray units.
But their specs arent any different than a five disc changer.
At least any you could discern unless you're a German shepard.
The circutry in higher end players is quite good.
The circutry in a five disc changer not as good, but you could A/B them and not be able to tell a difference

When was the last time you actually saw a 400+1 CD changer listed as the "best quality" CD playing in a year ? You probably better just keep on searching.

Not talking about those, tho I do use a 300 disc for storage of my favorite CD's.
Works well for that


[pixelthis]

Dude where on earth do you think "how" those files get transfered to all those USB keys and drives ? TELEPATHY ??? No force of will !! that's it, no wait, you can buy a
USB drive that already has your entire music collection on the shelf.

Practically everything these days has a USB plug

PDAs, iPods, cellFONES all come with an installation CD, hmm I wonder what those are for, I'll play them on my CD player, because I expect my CD player to play Windows

You can toss em if you dont have a computer, you wont need them

You actually need a means to transfer the music onto the blank usb drive/key, orphone in the first place.

Not if you download it off of the web.

One needs software to be installed on a "PC", to "transfer" their files onto their USB drive, or phone. Yes you could just dial up your phone company and pay for each
song, I'm sure that is the cheapest option to get music onto your phone.

In Japan they access the web with their portable devices.
I CAN DO THE SAME WITH MY CELL

Oh that's it, nooo that's not necessary, I can do that via e-mail. Let's see do I need a PC for that ? Nooo I'll e-mail without using a PC, and even if I was able to do that, I'd have the
expectation that the rest of the world can use the same method also.

YOU CANT ACCESS YOUR EMAIL on your cell while walking down the street
(usually intro traffic)?
Now I know you're not an American
[pixelthis]

Nope, you've missed quoted what I said.

Got nothing, dont even understand it

30 GB, 60 GB etc, will be nothing in 10 years time. 1 TB will be nothing in 20.

And a 650 mb form factor will still be around? Thanks for proving my point.
Still use a 2.5 mb floppy? Of course not, but they were quite usefull once

Good chance that space on a disc will be irrelavant in 20 years time, when there are technologies beyond drives.

that tech is already here, just expenisve

Watch Red vs Blue there's an episode on technology, they pretty much haveaddressed that topic well.

The only "red vs blue" we have here is red (republican) vs blue(democrat)
if you're getting advice from this show, delete it from your playlist

[pixelthis]

Just because your town is having cd shops close down doesn't dictate the

music world economy.

I have NEVER seen anything like this, and its not just my town, its happening everywhere

There's a good reason why some close down, and that is competition. The larger shops attract customers to theirs because they can sell it cheaper. At the end
of the day customers like to pay less, it goes the same with supermarkets.
The larger market chains also have the power and money to bully the smaller shops
into closing down using legal/scare tactics.

COMPETITION is whats closing them down, competition from DOWNLOADS

You also forget the tens of 1000's of websites where you can buy CDs/DVDs, etc online. Many of them make good profits and sales. There are less overheads, so they
can afford to offer discounts.

AND MANY OFFER DOWNLOADS ALSO
[pixelthis]

No it's your eyes that are shut, and praying that your little precious USB drives and flac players take over the world, and that CD dies tomorrow, don't hold your breath.

I actually hope CD surrives, its a great way to buy music and you ahve a backup when you burn it to flac.
But I am not hopefull.
THE NEXT RECCESSION will be a "gut ripper", CD sales will tank completely, people will be more concerned with other luxeries , LIKE FOOD.
And downloading will take over completely
[pixelthis]

Shops can charge whatever they want. Same as supermarkets for groceries. Some shops will undercharge their items to bring in more customers, which is taking away
businesses from smaller shops, which can be a contributing factor to why they
are closing down (including your area).

Shops can only charge what people will pay, they dont teach capitalism where you live?

Yes downloads are increasing, but a lot of music is downloaded "illegally".

Which is totally irelevant to anything
[pixelthis]

Dead depends on your definition, companies will still produce vinyl, because there are just too many vinyl owners. YOUNG as well as old. Many Dj's use vinyl, and they
are not baby boomers.

As a mass market medium vinyl is dead trust me on this

Much music come from digital masters, regardless on what format you are finally listening to, whether it is vinyl, CD, or flac. The fact that CD is transfered from a
digital Master, you convert your music from CD to flac, so in essence, it's a copy of a
copy.

Which doesnt matter for digital media.
The point is that turntable worshipers love vinyl because its "analog" , which it is,
but its analog from a digital source which kinda defeats the purpose
[pixelthis]

It is more likely that every one of the audio review members will be dead way before the world stops making CDs.

they gonna have a nuclear war or something?

I love CDs also, I also have music on hard drives, I like both. I'd rather have both, if there is a problem with one, I have the other.

SAME HERE, and totally irrelevant to anything BTW

The asteroid will hit with many things eventually. With CD however people are just not going to throw away their players, and CD collections, they spent way too much
money for it. If you believe it is not worth having a CD collection because it's so much
more "convenient" having a flac server/player, then you might as well throw away
your flac servers/players because there are companies working right now to supercede
that technology.

No they wont "throw it away" they will sell it at yard sales, you're repeating yourself

The rate of technology increases, rise every year. We're all becoming dinosaurs sooner than we wish, I'd rather spend the remaining time I have on here enjoying listening to
music, than worrying about when a certain technology is going to be replaced.

Then why this rediculously long post on tech being replaced?

With the way the economy is going, and how greater job we know the government is at "fixing" the economy, there will always be a good proportion of people who
cannot afford to buy the latest technology all of the time, so there will always be
a low-end market.

LOW end market?
Crack hos', you're talkin about crack hos', right?

In addition since you've been around the block a few times, if you owned a crt tv in the past you would know it lasted a lot longer than the newer screens now.
Just like a new car, there are more electronic parts, more things can go wrong.
However the sad part about these tv screen making companies is that they can
make their product a lot better, with better parts, and make their screens last
longer. They choose not to do that because they want to make money. They'd
see no sense in building tvs that would last 20 years. If they really wanted to do
that, they'd have to charge a ridicious price to the consumer, which the majority
just won't pay.

SO I just wasted a ton of time arguing with someone who doesnt know what hes talking about, but it aint the first time.

A well designed CRT will last, if your lucky , four to ten years, if you're lucky.
A LCD has a lifespan of twenty years, and thats because of the backlight, replace
that and it will go another twenty.
Solid state is always more trouble free than tubes, there are no moving parts on a MODERN tv, they are made from glass(silicon) literally.
The munber of "parts" in electronics is of no matter, your proc on your computer has MILLIONS of transistors, none of them EVER BREAK.


[pixelthis]

A change to stop making CDs, overnight, and for shops to stop selling them ?OVERNIGHT ? No, no one is going to believe that.

no, AND YOU CANT DROP AN OFFICE BUILDING IN A FEW HOURS either.
Or have the Berlin wall come down..
When CD came out records disapeared OVERNIGHT.
When DVD came out LASER disapeared OVERNIGHT.
And when lcd got to a 600 buck price point for a 32in, CRT disapeared as a main display OVERNIGHT.
As a matter of fact most things in human affairs happen OVERNIGHT

There's no one sole company that decides the fate of the CD format, because there are too many companies.

no sole company decides ANYTHING, the market decides what is viable and whats not.
And if the market decides CD is dead, IT WILL BE DEAD.
Simple as that

[blackraven]

I think CD's will always be around just like vinyl is still around. The market and companies may be smaller, but I dont think it will completely disappear. Not every one is computer savy. And many people I know, enjoy going to a record store to browse music and listen to samples of new CD's. The CD stores that I frequent here in the Twin cities are always busy.
Cheapo Records, Electric Fetus.

[OzzieAudiophile]

Of course Cds will always be around, like Vinyl.

Of course not everyone is computer savvy, not everyone will be, end of story.

Bring out 90 million flac servers and internet service providers, you cannot force
people to download music if they choose not to.

There's so many people that just never will, there's so many people out there
that got lots of money that they don't need to. There's lots of people who
just rather buy CDs, either in a retail shop, or online (to be delivered).

Vinyl is not dead in the sense that all companies do not produce them anymore.
There's too many vinyl users out there that swear by it, and aren't simply going
to throw them away, when CD stormed in back and, and certainly not today.
No matter how many times you say vinyl is dead. They'll keep making them
regardless on what the proportion is. There are high end hi fi companies that
are still devloping new and improved vinyl players, because there is still a market
out there, way WAY after this generation, same goes for CD.

You might as throw away your precious flac players and servers, because that
will be dead in 10 years time. Everything will eventually go, regardless on
when it comes out. Since CD has made a huger impact in the world, it's lifespan
will most likely be much longer than any previous format. No matter how much
you scream and moan that it's already dead.


pixelthis

Doesnt matter how the scratches got there.
I used to play my CD's IN A CAR, no way to avoid some scratches

It matters if you are not able to take care of the discs you buy. Well you are playing
your CDs in a car that is moving when you're driving, not quite the same as a
stationary CD player at home. You'll notice going over huge bumps over the road
can also cause discs to skip, but I guess you'll blame the scratch on the disc for that.

No way to avoid some scratches ? If you're able to take good care of your discs,
the minimum amount of scratches will get on the disc, and should be still playable.

And as stated earlier, there are many scratch repairers out there, so it's not quite the
end of the world.

pixelthis

DUH!
When does class start on how to flush a toilet?

Only 8 year olds argue like that. However they say people who claim that they
are so old, would also argue like that. Since you claim you're so much older,
god still waiting for the five bucks you borrowed off him.

Perhaps you need a lesson in manners as well as reasoning-101.

pixelthis

Never had any trouble with my XP

Yet.


pixelthis

Never had" the blue screen of death", not once.
What kind of one lung computer are you using?
AND EVERYTHING IS BACKED UP, btw

Yeah that is because wouldn't even know when you get them. Many people don't.

What kind of computer I am using ? Irrelevant, there's nothing on it that I would
be concerned about if there was a problem. Backups and on more than 1 form of
media.

pixelthis

THATS WHY YOU BACK STUFF UP

Still no absolute guarrantee. I suppose a rageaholic like yourself would have no
sympathy for people who get power surges, or fires, theft, accidents, and lose even
their backups.

pixelthis

SOUNDS GREAT FOR BACKUPS
And HD is bocoming more stable every year, and files are retreivable from a crashed drive

Not good news for price for those discs. Not all files can always be retrievable from a
crashed drive, it's unlikely to ever happen due to mechanical failures or surges.
Since the hard drives are getting larger the temptation to put one's eggs all in the 1
basket, there's just that much more to lose.

Data lost on one CD-R 800 MB (100 - 300 songs), compared to TB hard drives (100,000
to 400,000 songs) ? Even if it's backed up on 2 drives or more, Murphy's Law applies.

pixelthis

Thats not my argument at all, it doesnt matter how the scratch got there,
its still a detriment to playback.

Still doesn't excuse CD misuse and abuse. If you have a Cd player that cannot
handle a small amount of scratches, then better look at the player being used.
Some CD players are more capable of error correction on discs, not all players
are created equal.

pixelthis

I cant be bothered by by such, like the ape in 2001

bothered by by such ?

Yes I do believe it is the much older age settling in.

pixelthis

Its going to break on you no matter how good you take care of it, and it doesnt matter if its your fault, you still wont get to the store

With that reasoning, you must be one of those who wouldn't even bother to look after it
because you believe it's going to break down.

pixelthis

Not talking about those, tho I do use a 300 disc for storage of my favorite CD's.
Works well for that

Works, yes. Not the best CD player that is possible.

pixelthis

Got nothing, dont even understand it

It's the age thing again.


pixelthis

YOU CANT ACCESS YOUR EMAIL on your cell while walking down the street
(usually intro traffic)?
Now I know you're not an American

I choose not to use that option because it's an unnecessary cost. Yeah go ahead,
let your cell, and your PDAs, etc run your life for you because you're too dependent
on them. I'm sure if you lost them, you wouldn't be able to even wipe your technology-
infested can. The growth coming out of your right ear is not a pimple buddy, it's
the result of using your cell every 5 seconds.

pixelthis

I have NEVER seen anything like this, and its not just my town, its happening everywhere

Sorry watching one episode of CNN stating what happens in one single down about
some CD players shut down, doesn't filter across to the rest of the world like Ebola.

pixelthis

And downloading will take over completely

Now I'm convinced that is your actual cult. Perhaps people like you will panic overnight
and stop buying this or that.

pixelthis

And if the market decides CD is dead, IT WILL BE DEAD.
Simple as that

Just what is composition of "the market" ? A cult ? With all the money that music
companies are still making, CDs will be many people's favourite media, and there will
be people who will never download. You won't live to see CD being dead in terms
of not one more being produced, ever, so it's nothing you have to be concerned about.
CDs will be around way after you're gone.

[GMichael]

How about Sir T vs. Beefy? My CRT ran out of ink on some of those!

If I get a chance, I'll start a poll to see who is thought of as the master typer.

[OzzieAudiophile]

What better usage of time ?

Well it's a bit of a change from cable.

[E-Stat]

Of course Cds will always be around, like Vinyl...Of course not everyone is computer savvy, not everyone will be, end of story.

Naturally.

You might as throw away your precious flac players and servers, because that will be dead in 10 years time. Everything will eventually go, regardless on when it comes out.

Agreed. The need to *preserve* space by spending the time to reformat everything has already become moot. Terabyte drives can be purchased today for $200 and Blu Ray burners can be had for under $300.

rw

[pixelthis]

I remember a man saying that a train could only go so fast before the speed would kill the occupants.
Looking at CD as a music playback format is wrong.
CD became a computer storage device when CDrom became popular.
And people can download music, burn it to CD.
And they can put a lot of hours of MP3 on said CD.
BUT heres the problem, as a computer storage device CD is obsolete
650 to 750 mb in a gigabyte world.
The CD form factor is coming to a close, sadly.
Hope I AM WRONG, but I WOULDNT BE SURPRIZED
Not everybody has a computer, true, internet cafe and computer kiosks for them, or they can use their phone or PDA. THE Japanese are using wireless devices already.
Remember, a CD can only hold 650 mb.
When was the last time you used a 2.5 floppy?

[E-Stat]

BUT heres the problem, as a computer storage device CD is obsolete

You really need to get out more often. Go to any computer store and observe on what media most applications are found. I work for a large software developer. Virtually all our products are likewise found on CD media.

The CD form factor is coming to a close, sadly.
Hope I AM WRONG, but I WOULDNT BE SURPRIZED

Not to worry, you are wrong. DVDs and Blu Ray discs use the same 120 mm form factor. They will also be around for a while.

Remember, a CD can only hold 650 mb.

The correct answer is 700 mb.

When was the last time you used a 2.5 floppy?

Never. They came in 8", 5.25", and 3.5" form factors.

rw