Destroyed by Fire

[blackraven]

For a good high powered 5ch amp and processor with 300wpc at 4 ohms you should consider the outlaw audio 7500 5ch amp rated at 300wpcx5 at 4ohms and the 990 preamp-processor for about $2400 at www.outlawaudio.com. A lot of people use these amps to drive magnepans. These are very good amps for the money. Are there better, sure. But the Magnepans need lots of 4ohm power to sound the best, especially if your going to play them loud.

I envy your if you decide to buy the 3.6's. They sound magnificent! The 1.6's sound great as well. If you do go with the Maggies, seriously consider the REL subs. The higher end REL subs match very well and are some of the best sub's in the world. You will only need them for HT and not 2ch music as the QR 1.6's and 3.6 maggies have plenty of bass. If you decide to go with a different brand sub, look for a non ported sub. The magnepans are very fast speakers and they need a "fast sub". Non ported subs like the REL's and the SPL velodynes fit the bill. So do the Martin Logan subs.

[TwinDad]

Spoke with three dealers on phone today and have appointments set up for Saturday.

My wife is insisting that we visit the BOSE store in the local mall. Her co-worker has a 1-2-3 system and swears that it is outstanding. I doubt it very much. However, she is very supportive about the whole HT system set-up and i have to give in and go on the wasted time travel excursion.

Nicest dealer and most informative on phone is a LINN / ARCAM / REL dealer who said he can put together a great system within my budget.

I LOVE THE PIONEER KURO PLASMA TV!!! A grand Slam if there ever was one. I have seen both the 50" and 60" Elite and non-Elite versions. They are beautiful and my kids agree. Very Happy!

Things are looking up.

[blackraven]

Linn, Arcam and REL make great products. Just make sure that if you go with the magnepans that the Linn dealer knows about their requirements for lots of clean high current power at 4ohms and that you will need that from all 5 channels! If you go with the 3.6's you will need minimum 200wpc and preferably 300wpc to be satisfied with the sound.

Good luck and happy hunting!

[bobsticks]

Blackraven has made some great suggestions. For your taste in music the Magnepans are absolutely fantastic...in my opinion, but you need to hear them. I love the speaker package that that he's suggested.

Here's my list:

1) Pioneer plasma
2) Maggie speaker package
3) Onkyo 875 AV receiver
4) Arcam Diva P1000 7 Channel amp (Bi-amped on front speakers)
5) PS3 run to Onkyo via HDMI (for Blu-Ray and Standard DVD)
6) Arcam DV137 Universal Player (for CD,SACD,DVD-Audio)
7) REL sub

That set-up will give you both great movies and some serious two-channel reproduction.

[TwinDad]

Is it possible to put together an all Maggie surround system? I'd be willing to sell a few guitars to raise the extra cash.

What about Martin Logan or Quad speakers? I just read a review on new ML and it was a good one. Are electrostats better for piano and classical music in general? My floor is 100% carpeted in the family room - do I have to worry about dust building up more quickly on electrostats? What about static electricity because of Maggies, etc and carpeting?

[bobsticks]

Is it possible to put together an all Maggie surround system? I'd be willing to sell a few guitars to raise the extra cash.

What about Martin Logan or Quad speakers? I just read a review on new ML and it was a good one. Are electrostats better for piano and classical music in general? My floor is 100% carpeted in the family room - do I have to worry about dust building up more quickly on electrostats? What about static electricity because of Maggies, etc and carpeting?

I could be wrong, but Martin Logan is the only one of the three manufacturers in question that makes proper center channels. It is possible that on could use one of the smaller Maggies as a center.

Both stats (ML) and planars (Maggies) will give you a "wide open" and "airy" sound with extremely holographic imaging--fantastic for piano, small ensemble and, depending on which speaker, symphonic classical. The downside is that they do not have the dynamic drive that a coned speaker will have, but that is generally more of a concern for fans of rock music or techno or whatever non-organic music descriptor you may choose to insert.

Humidity will be the enemy of any speaker but my electrostat surround set-up (ML) doesn't require any particularly invasive or silly rituals as far as care and maintenance goes.

As far as budget goes, this is gonna get expensive. There are a couple of options, however, one of which would be to buy used. Stat panels, even on very old speaks, can be replaced for only a few hundred dollars so that's a possibility. Were it I, I would be looking for a used amp. You can probably knock off a thousand dollars by going used on the MC amp, and solid state amps are a great value and very safe to purchase used. There's not a lot of things that can wrong. You could probably pick up a Marantz 9600 from "Accessoriesforless" on ebay and save five hundred on the universal.

[blackraven]

TD, The magnepan package I suggested is for HT use. Check their web site.

Magnepan 3.6's or 1.6's for the front channels. The magnepan CC3 for the center and the
MC1's for the rear. I've heard a set up with the 1.6's as the fronts and is sounded great.

Martin logans would be a good choice as well. I prefer the magnepans. The store I bought mine at sells ML and Magnepan so I got to compare them side by side. The Maggies have a warmer richer sound. The ML's sounded thin compared to the maggies.

You dont have to worry about dust or static with the magnepans. You just dont want to have cats with claws climbing the panels. The only problem with the Maggies are the size. The 3.6's are almost the size of a door. You need an understanding wife. The center channel is very large as well although they do make a smaller center channel only available through mail oorder from magneapan.

Thiels would be my second choice in speakers. They sound great with piano and classical music.

[TwinDad]

Thanks for the quick education. No cats - I'm allergic. Still trying to find a Maggie dealer in my area - no luck. I am going to contact them directly and may have to plan on a day trip for an audition. That's fine with us.

My wife read all the negative reviews about BOSE 123 and Lifestyle system and decided against purchasing BOSE.

Saturday my wife and twin sons went to a dealer to show her for the 1st time the Pioneer 50" KURO Plasma HDTV and to audition speakers. She loves the TV - so case closed that is our purchase.

The speakers that amazed us were the Audio Physic Tempo IV (STEREOPHILE CLASS B FULL RANGE RECOMMENDED COMPONENT) in a cherry finish. Just wonderful. Great low end response on Organ and Synth Bass, smooth vocals across the midrange. A warm inviting speaker that could be listened to for extended periods of time with no fatigue. They handled everything I threw at it. Vladimir Horowitz, Claudio Arrau, Earl Wild, Oscar Peterson, Monk all sounded perfect. Not as overly bright as the Theil's I had auditioned at another dealer that made me want to lower the volume or stop listening altogether. Great soundstaging on Concertos and Orchestral Pieces. No ice pick in the forehead sensation when listening to Danny Gatton on Harlem Nocturne with his aggressive Fender Telecaster. Really a great speaker for the money. I don't know if I'm allowed to post prices so PM me and we'll talk.

Two other speakers that cost considerably less were the REVEL F12 and F32. I could hear strange artifacts during a challenging collection of Bassoon pieces that bothered me. The dealer heard it too and said it was a dissonance in the frequency spectrum. Whatever jargon that is acoustically correct - the Bassoon did not really sound very much like a Bassoon. Back to the Audio Physic Tempo with the Bassoon Cd and - it is sublime. From the deepest register of the Contra-Bassoon to the highest notes on the Bassoon it was breathtaking.
Several other people wandered into this audition room to listen to the music. It sounded that good.

The source equipment for the demo was Classe CDP 102 and CAP 2100.

The system this dealer is thinking about putting together is BDI Lowboy furniture in cherry,
Marantz 6001 ( A WHAT HIFI WINNER), Rotel RSX1067, Sony BluRau Player 300 with version 3.7 software to fix prior slow loading problems, etc. We also talked about using the KEF Wireless surround setup for the rear surround speakers so no wires have to be run under carpet or through baseboard or through attic. It will cut down installation cost and I apply saving elsewhere. Oh, the sub is the B&W PV1 (another WHATHIFI WINNER). Wiring would be by Nordost. I don't know much about the Rotel product and am going to research it.

Anyway that was Saturday's excursion into a super laid back dealership. This is what I pictured going into a High End Dealer would be and feel like.

My kids sat down and listened to everything , behaved and said what sounded good and didn't. Martial Arts lessons pay off for discipline. They know when they are not allowed to act like children and basically stay very focused until I tell them everything's cool and they can act like themselves again - kids.

Thanks,

Eddie

[blackraven]

As far as subs go, the B&W is a great sub, but you should really listen to the REL subs that I mentioned earlier. REL specializes in making subs and they are world renown. The Britanica series are unbelievable.

[TwinDad]

I did not ask if they carried REL subs. I'll find out tomorrow. I have 2 more dealers lined up to visit within the next 10 days.

[bobsticks]

Hey TD,

Random thoughts:

--Your wife is one smart cookie for doing her research.
--Aren't the Marantz 6001 and the Rotel 1067 both receivers?
--Congrats on hearing the Audio Physic, a very fine speaker indeed. Kinda nice to know what's out there eh?
-I wasn't able to discern if that was the speaker in the proposed set-up. If so, what was proposed as a center channel?
--You may be a candidate to experiment with SACD (Super Audio CDs)
-- Watch out for Classe CDPs. While Classe makes some fantastic amps and processors my dealer claims to have had reliability issues with the players.
--You have great taste in music

Peace

[blackraven]

TD, seriously consider the Marantz SA 8001 SACDP. There are many SACD titltes for the type of music you like to listen too. The Marantz is a very good CDP, and SACD sound is awesome. Check out the reviews at www.stereophile.com I got to auditon it at home but went with the Cambridge Audio 740c and then the 840c which you should also consider for its detail and accuracy. The Rega Apollo is another one you should consider.

I would also strongly consider going with a separate amp and preamp over those receivers. You will get much better sound and flexibility.

[f0rge]

DON'T BUY BLURAY YET!!!!

wait for spec 2, it will make all the spec 1 and 1.1 players obsolete, sony should have some players out in the summer.

sorry if someone said this already, i only skimmed.

[TwinDad]

Thanks fOrge,

What is the difference?

Eddie

[Groundbeef]

Thanks fOrge,

What is the difference?

Eddie

2.0 has different features not available on earlier releases. I think that the base BR "Movie" will play in older players (1.0, 1.1). However some of the newest interactive features, online access, and games related to the "movie" would be UN-available to the users of the older releases (1.0, 1.1).

Perhaps Sir T will stop by and school us all on this, but I think I'm pretty close.

I also think this is a hardware update, and cannot be done to the older players via a software d/l or "update disc".

Congrats on the 50" plasma. I have a Pioneer Plasma, and it's the cat's meow. Great colors, blacks, the whole nine yards. Just wish I had the extra $2K for the 60".

[TwinDad]

Okay - just too many expressions of true gratitude to go around for all you guys. You are great!

Blackraven - my wife freaked out when she saw the size of the Maggies. Plus the salesman told her it is difficult to place speakers and center channel. So, Magies are sadly a no go.

Here we go (so far):

Re: DESTROYED BY HOUSE FIRE!!!

Hello,

Here is what I have planned so far:

Pioneer Elite KURO PRO-110FD 50" Plasma TV

SVS PB Ultra 13 Subwoofer - maybe 2

Integra DTC 9.8 Pre/Pro

Panasonic DMP-BD300 Blu-Ray Player or wait for spec 2 to come out in summer by Sony

Cables by BlueJeanCables

APC or Belkin Power Conditioners

Speakers? Back to the drawing board.
Amps? Need something that will do surround sound as well as 2 channel audio.
Furniture for TV and Components? Any links, or suggestions?
Universal Remote? What specific make and model.

Forget HT seating. We hired a company to clean carpets and furniture of smoke smell from fire. Everything worked out amazingly well. No smell.

I want the option of being able to switch to just 2 channel stereo with sub for enjoying music only.

Please help fill in the missing pieces of my system.

Finally, I would like a SACD/CD/CDR player for my discs that I started buying again. MUSIC IS KEY!!!

Thanks,

Eddie

[blackraven]

For amp and pre look at NAD T973 7ch amp and T175 preamp or their top of the line Master seires M25 7ch amp and M15 preamp. If your looking to save some money look at www.outlawaudio.com.

If your looking for just a receiver check out the Cambridge Audio 640R at www.spearitsound.com

For a CD/SACD player go with the Marantz SA8001 SACDP. It cant be beat for the money.

For speakers, you should consider Paradigm and B&W.

There are better subs than the SVS.

[TwinDad]

blackraven,

So many people have PM and emailed me extolling the virtues of SVS subs not to mention the value.

I liked the B&W PV1 when I demoed it.

Other have been very vocal about he REL brands high standing.

Again, I want a musical sounding sub. However, it will be used to handle the loud sound effects from movies so i guess this is where trying to find a happy medium comes into play.

Thanks,

Eddie

[blackraven]

Check out the REL subs at www.sumikoaudio.net The britannica line is excellent.

Here's a review of the smaller B3 sub.
http://www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/revie...B3_TAS_806.pdf

I've heard this and the larger B2. They will blow you away. I've heard several high end subs and these are the best that I have ever heard. They are well worth the money if your going to spend several thousand dollars on audiphile speakers and amp/pre. Especailly if your main concern is music. I wouldnt waste my money on these if you only used them for home theater because there are cheaper subs that will the job for HT use.

[blackraven]

Here's another review comparing the REL Stentor sub with a Cerwin Vega and SVS SB12-plus. The REL took first place with the CV second and the SVS third.

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/revie...I_HCC_7-07.pdf

[TwinDad]

Once again - Thank you blackraven. I will print out the links and read them tonight while my wife watches our loaner TV.

[TwinDad]

Hello,

I need to set the record straight on one minor item. I had to go see a doctor a few days ago because I actually hurt myself more than I realized in the fire. I'm using special burn ointment with high steroid count for my arms. One arm looks kind of funky. I told the doc that i did not really feel any pain and evidently - that's bad when burns are concerned because it means it affected the nerves.

My back is shot. I am having a difficult time driving and sitting. This makes auditioning speakers a burden rather than an adventure.

I will heal. So, please NO well wishes or pity or stuff like that. Life happens.

Now, what I really need is to put together this system and rely on your ears for the speakers. I will fill in any blanks you may have. by now you know I want a setup that is relaxing for extended listening sessions. My preference is for neutral/forgiving spealers rather than Ultra Revealing.

In Good Spirits,

Eddie

[bobsticks]

My back is shot. I am having a difficult time driving and sitting. This makes auditioning speakers a burden rather than an adventure.

My preference is for neutral/forgiving spealers rather than Ultra Revealing.

In Good Spirits,

Hey Eddie,

Under the circumstances it seems as if we should think a bit outside our usual envelope. I may be inviting a flame war, but have you checked out a Magnolia Home Theater in one of the upscale Best Buys? I would imagine that their combination of product and service might make life easier.

The last time I was in one they had a pretty good mix of product and if you purchased the service plan I wouldn't imagine that they'd have a problem with slipping in a few extra components as well. Here goes:

--Pioneer Plasma (again, nice choice)
--Vienna Acoustics surround system (I've modified my recommendation based on your own comments)
--REL sub
--Pioneer Elite receiver

All these can be purchased from Magnolia. I think that the Vienna Accoustics would be a mellower alternative to the ultra-revealing Martin Logans and would still fill a 20 x 14 room.

One could still order better options from the internet such as the recommended NAD amp. For a universal you would do well with either of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MARANTZ-DV9500-R...QQcmdZViewItem
or

http://cgi.ebay.com/DENON-DVD-3910-B...QQcmdZViewItem

Both are respected internet dealers.

Glad to read that your remaining upbeat in the face of adversity.

Peace,
Sticks

[blackraven]

Paradigm Studio 60's or 100's or the Paradigm Signature S6's for the front channels and then the matching rear book shelf and center channels. This would be a killer system.

[TwinDad]

Yes, Paradigm gets good to great reviews in the press from what I recall. Going to their website now.