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  1. #1
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    DENONn AVR-3802 Vs ONKYO Vs YAMAHA Help!!!!!

    Hi, I am considering buying a HT equipment, I allready know the speakers ( B&W DM603,600, LCR60 and a asw650 sub) and the dvd player (ONKYO 502), but i have to make a decision on the AV receiver.
    In the store i go in Spain that's what i can get:

    ONKYO TX-SR-602E---659 Euros
    ONKYO TX-SR-702E 1025 E
    yamaha rx V 1500---889 E
    yamaha rx V 2500 ---1099 E
    Denon AVR AVR-3802---699 E

    The denon is a last-year model and its half priced, I guess it is the best deal thinking about power and so..but i am concerned about the lack of any auto-set up capabilities such as YPAO on the yammies. the onkyos have some equivalent feature also.

    The use of the equipment will be movies and music also.

    Wich AV receiver you recommend?????????????

    Thanx in advance

  2. #2
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    You can do without the auto set up and do it yourself in 5 minutes with a sound meter. The 3802 isnt bad at half price. You'll like the 5ch stereo. If you get the Yamaha C750,it plays all disc's and DVD-A and SACD.

  3. #3
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    Have you listened to the lcr60 as acenter w/603's.the lcr600 is a way better match.Just my 2 cents

  4. #4
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    I have had the 3802 for a couple years now and still love it!! Best HT unit for the money IMHO.

  5. #5
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    I'd flip a coin between the Denon and the Yamaha, but 890 E is way too much for that....buy an RX-V1400 or 1500 on ebay and pay to have it shipped!!!

    Whatever you do, do not underestimat the significant impact a good auto-setup feature has. When receiver shopping last winter I was amazed at how good the Denon, Harman Kardon, and Yamaha auto-setups actually are. The level settings are extremely accurate, I'd argue as accurate or more so than any human and a SPL meter under $200 could produce.

    And nobody with an SPL meter can reproduce the benefits a Parametric EQ brings to the table if your room isn't perfect (most arent').

  6. #6
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    I have an rx-v2500 and love it. Used to own the 1400 and it for some reason the 2500 sounds better then the 1400.
    If you are on a budget then try going for an rx-v2400 if you can get one somewhere. Chances are if a store has it then they might be trying to get rid of it making room for the new models, so you could end up getting it a hell of alot cheaper then retail.
    As for the auto setup i only used it to check the wire polarity, to see if the wires were hooked up right, other then that i did the rest manualy.

  7. #7
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    I'd flip a coin between the Denon and the Yamaha, but 890 E is way too much for that....buy an RX-V1400 or 1500 on ebay and pay to have it shipped!!!

    Whatever you do, do not underestimat the significant impact a good auto-setup feature has. When receiver shopping last winter I was amazed at how good the Denon, Harman Kardon, and Yamaha auto-setups actually are. The level settings are extremely accurate, I'd argue as accurate or more so than any human and a SPL meter under $200 could produce.

    And nobody with an SPL meter can reproduce the benefits a Parametric EQ brings to the table if your room isn't perfect (most arent').

    Maybe. Have you compared an auto-setup to a SPL meter to see how close they are? I've heard more times then not after an auto-setup was checked with an SPL,it needed to be adjusted. Now maybe i've heard of a few times and not the 100's of times it worked just fine. You always hear the bad stuff faster. LOL

  8. #8
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    I don't doubt auto-setups aren't perfect either, but most SPL meters need corrections, and are often off by the 6 to 9 dB at certain frequencies. The Radio Shack SPL's are notorious for this.
    On my RX-V1400, my Radio Shack SPL meter (with correction values) varies slightly from the YPAO auto-setup, 2 or 3 dB but I also have a $500 Galaxy Audio meter that's probably more accurate than YPAO. It almost always shows YPAO to be correct...in fact, I can't think of one time I've ever manually adjusted.

    There's a thread here somewhere in the archives that had a link that described the effectiveness of one manufacturers auto-setup tool compared to some manual tools...I tried finding it but came up empty handed...maybe if someone has more time they could find it for us?

    All this aside, even if a human and a cheap SPL meter could match this the Parametric EQ's in todays receivers are probably the best thing to hit the market since DTS.

  9. #9
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    more on this...

    Ok guys, thanx a lot for the answers....
    I've been doing some research and I found out some interesting things:

    1) The denon 3082 doesn't allow crossover freq below 80Hz, FOr a 2 channel (with sub) listening I think the BW DM 603 can go to 60 Hz so I can send 60 Hz at least and below to the sub: Of course I have to test wich setting would be best, but I have this kind of set up in my stereo Hifi with BWDM604 and a Rel Strata III sub. I just think that for 2 channel listenning, its better to have as much bass as you can in the main speakers if they are good enough.
    2) The yamaha doesn't allow to use the sub in the pure direct mode, that's something I don't like being the BW sub musical enough to improve a 2 channel listening. It does have though a stereo mode that uses the sub but goes through the equalizers, that's something i can live with but I prefer to avoid.
    Any opinions on the onkyos? They are not very popular in this forum, aren't they good?
    The receiver that seems to gather all the things I'm looking for is the denon 2805( 1000 E), with hass corssover from 40 Hz, auto-setup, anf uses sub in pure direct mode.... The store Im going to buy the suff told me they had the denon 3805 and not the 2805..but I guess I can puss them to bring the 2805.
    The thing is that its a home-theater for my mum so I prefer to buy everything in a single physical store and forget about it...

    Concerning the manual set up...well I dont have a SPL meter and never did it before..so I guess I could figure it out but I prefer the machine to do it itself
    Anyways..ill go and listen to them once they bring the BW 603 to the sotre...but probably if they cannont get me the Denon 2805..I guess the yammie could be the one..not sure yet though..any other suggestion?

  10. #10
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    The higher end Onkyo's are actually very good as well, just often overlooked by many for whatever reasons. I've been impressed with every Onkyo unit I've played with.

    Regarding the "pure direct mode" on AV receivers. On my RX-V1400, I honestly cannot hear the difference between this and the straight stereo mode with the sub. I doubt the signal passing through that extra tiny bit of circuitry produces an audible difference. I cannot hear it, and could not hear it on the AVR-2803 I almost bought. Though I believe in theory the notion makes sense.
    I guess I doubt that AV receivers at this price point are this faithful to analog signals to begin with that such a feature add value to the unit. I wouldn't sweat this too much. Also, if a sub is active in "Pure Direct" mode or "Direct Stereo" or whatever they call it, there must be some digital processing going on, meaning it ain't so pure!

    I'll say it one last time. You're looking at some great receivers. Just make sure whichever you end up with offers you Parametric Equalization in its auto-setup feature. Read up on the benefits of a Parametric Eq. That feature alone will provide more improvements to sound than the incremental differences these receivers would otherwise have between them. I believe the 2805 from Denon has this feature as well as the Yamahas.

  11. #11
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Right now i have a Denon 3200 which is being upgraded to a 2805{refurbished by denon from dakmart,full fac warr for 671 shipped} and i use B&W DM603's,6 years old or so. They work fine and i belive its 47Hz-20kHz for mine so newer ones must be better. I hope i can adjust the bass mangement on the 2805 so i dont explode my 601's in the rear when i use SACD and DVD-A.BTW, all i use when playing my cd's is the 5ch stereo on the Denon,its pretty good.

  12. #12
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    i have the 3802. it shuts down on me at high levels during loud explosion scenes on dvd's.

    doesn't happen a lot but once in a while

    anyone else have this problem?

    Bass

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Right now i have a Denon 3200 which is being upgraded to a 2805{refurbished by denon from dakmart,full fac warr for 671 shipped} and i use B&W DM603's,6 years old or so. They work fine and i belive its 47Hz-20kHz for mine so newer ones must be better. I hope i can adjust the bass mangement on the 2805 so i dont explode my 601's in the rear when i use SACD and DVD-A.BTW, all i use when playing my cd's is the 5ch stereo on the Denon,its pretty good.
    i used to have a 3200, i gave it to a friend when i got my 3802

    didn't the 3200 have an ac3-rf input for laser disc?

    i wish they still had that option. not even the flag ship denon model has it anymore.

    Bass

  14. #14
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    as kexodusc said i can barely hear the difference between the direct stereo or pure direct (depending on what modle yammy you have) compared to the 'straight' stereo mode i too cant hear the difference, only dif is that the pure direct dosnt alow you to run the sub and the straight mode does. The only way i can tell is if i fiddle around with the equalizer settings and change the settings for both the main speakers. This changes it for the straight mode but not the pure direct. because the pure direct aparently bypases all this. I personly only listen to music in pure direct mode, only time i dont and change over to a concert hall soundfield is when im listening to a live cd recording, it gives the feeling that your actually at the conert.
    I personly love the yamaha's because of their extensive lists of soundfields, many to choose from.

  15. #15
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    Smile

    dr bass
    there can be a few reasons why that happens.
    1. the speaker impedence dosnt match the amps
    2. the amp is running hot and shuts off automaticly
    3. wires sumwhere within your speakers, or your wire from amp to speaker somewhere along the way is touching
    4. your just pumpin the baby past its limits

    i doubt it would be 3. other wise if it was a wire crossing over then it would shut off as soon as the amp put out a signal.

    check your speaker impedence and also check your polarity, positive to positive and neg to neg

  16. #16
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Maybe it dusty inside and denons run hot anyway so when you push it, its temp shuts it down?

  17. #17
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    a note about crossover freq. I set my yamaha to send bass to both the sub and to the mains. then I set my sub to cut off at the freq where my mains roll off. The lowest crossover my reciever supports is about 90hz, but using the blend method or whatever you want to call it, I can get an effective crossover at around 60hz or so, which is more ideal for my system.

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