-
Why I'm a bad audiophile
Here at AR, (where I call myself an "audio enthusiast" anyway), it's not so bad, but in that other place I get no respect at all. Here are the main reasons.
- I don't love vinyl. I don't think it is inherently the superior medium. I don't like the rice krispies. I think the big difference from CD is (or was in the past) recording method, and that the best CDs are as good or better than LPs. I don't cherish handling LPs: cleaning them before and after each playing; the tense moments lowering that $$ cartridge on the record, etc..
- I don't love tubes. With good recordings, including RBCDs, decent quality solid state sounds better. I'm deeply suspicious that the "musicality", "soul", "depth", "harmonic texture", "wholeness", "continuity", etc., attributed to tubes are really artifacts of higher distortion.
- I have no patience for tweaks. My experiments with the likes of power cords have been a wast of time and I certainly have inclination to spend a $1000 each on a set of them despite claims of "huge improvement" from some golden ears. I'm "close minded" about the possible benefit of jars of pebbles and the like.
- I'm boggled at the price of very expensive components and doubt the incremental value of $5000+ amps, $10,000+ speakers, not to mention $100,000+ turntables.
- But worst of all, I have a utilitarian attitude. That is, good enough is good enough. Tiny improvements and absolute perfection aren't essential to my enjoyment of the hobby.
:16:
-
Well to me all this money and equipment are means to an end. I know what i seek and i can accept the fact that it takes 25K plus amps to get there. Good enough is good enough, might be enough for some but doesnt have to be for all.
See on the bright site, i get respect from fellow audiophooles on this site but not from the masses because of the money invested blablah and get tons of repsect on audiophile sites for my dedication and knowledge. I just build my crossover where the parts alone cost me 3100$.....watch me get smoked for that on this site too....
Its all good...dont worry... :3:
PS: What is good enough for one might be just the beginning for another one.
-
Flo, you're a 'good' audiophile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
...
See on the bright site, i get respect from fellow audiophooles on this site but not from the masses because of the money invested blablah and get tons of repsect on audiophile sites for my dedication and knowledge. I just build my crossover where the parts alone cost me 3100$.....watch me get smoked for that on this site too....
PS: What is good enough for one might be just the beginning for another one.
Your obsession has made you pretty expert in some areas, and I'm glad you share that knowledge.
'Good enough' for me is for me, granted. My 'good enough' is conditioned by a lot of things: time, space, money, musical taste, etc.. And it's not a fixed thing. Nor I am I saying that I think my system is 'good enough' even for me a the moment. See a diagram of my current system ...My vinyl playback would definitely not be 'good enough' if I actually listened to LPs very often, but since I don't, it is. I would like to replace the Behringer T1951 with a DEQ2496. Also the wireless connection to the NAS has occassional drop-outs, so I want to added an external HD directly to a hub with the M-Audio.
-
Looking good so far, my advise would be in the room and of course the crossover upgrade. The crossover upgrade will definetly throw the 1.6 into another league, if you would like i can give you some pointers etc...
As far as the good is good enough goes, let me say that i have been happy with all my systems and enjoyed music with all of them. But would i go back to a MG3.6 or MG20 now and be happy? No, i wont. Will i be happy now with a Krell KSA250 etc..? No, i wont.
Some reach for the limit and others dont, some are fine and happy where they are at and i will definetly not say that they are wrong. But i personally seak much much more and if we can respect that we are fine..
:-)
PS: My next upgrades are an apartment, then the power filters, powerlines and more on the room acoustic. I just bought a second pair of DIVAS here in europe that found with a digital active crossover. My new crossovers are done and sing heavinly... is it all insane? Yes it is, but once you hear it you will understand.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
Here at AR, (where I call myself an "audio enthusiast" anyway), it's not so bad, but in that other place I get no respect at all. Here are the main reasons.
- I don't love vinyl. I don't think it is inherently the superior medium. I don't like the rice krispies. I think the big difference from CD is (or was in the past) recording method, and that the best CDs are as good or better than LPs. I don't cherish handling LPs: cleaning them before and after each playing; the tense moments lowering that $$ cartridge on the record, etc..
- I don't love tubes. With good recordings, including RBCDs, decent quality solid state sounds better. I'm deeply suspicious that the "musicality", "soul", "depth", "harmonic texture", "wholeness", "continuity", etc., attributed to tubes are really artifacts of higher distortion.
- I have no patience for tweaks. My experiments with the likes of power cords have been a wast of time and I certainly have inclination to spend a $1000 each on a set of them despite claims of "huge improvement" from some golden ears. I'm "close minded" about the possible benefit of jars of pebbles and the like.
- I'm boggled at the price of very expensive components and doubt the incremental value of $5000+ amps, $10,000+ speakers, not to mention $100,000+ turntables.
- But worst of all, I have a utilitarian attitude. That is, good enough is good enough. Tiny improvements and absolute perfection aren't essential to my enjoyment of the hobby.
:16:
Hi,
Sleep easy, you're not a bad audiophile- whatever that may be. As you know my system contains the exact opposite from what you like. I will not try to convince you that it is better or otherwise. I have been through the digital, solid state thing and was not satisfied. On my latest speaker purchase I had to make a choice between the £5k or the £9k version, and let me tell you there was a distinct difference. And since my money is hard earned the speakers had to justify the outlay and they did and I went for the signature version. Like Flo said it is all very subjective and I for one am very interested in reading about all systems in all price and performance ranges.
I tried a very expensive Clearaudio TT and to me, it was not worth the money and the sound it created did not move me. So I will do sent things back, but if they put the performance of my rig one or two notches up on the performance ladder I will spent what is necessary, at the moment I am saving for a Koetsu. It is after all my hobby but more so a passion. In the end it's music I love. And I agree with Flo in that I could not go back to anything lesser to serious move me.
So just enjoy what you have and be proud of it. Let the music flow my friend.
Peace
Bernd:16:
-
Chances are you're in it more for the music, not the equipment and IMO there's nothing wrong with that. They're almost two different hobbies which some try to mix and some don't.
-
Value is determined by budget
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernd
Hi,
Sleep easy, you're not a bad audiophile- whatever that may be. As you know my system contains the exact opposite from what you like. I will not try to convince you that it is better or otherwise. ... and I for one am very interested in reading about all systems in all price and performance ranges.
...
Bernd
What's "good enough" is determined largely by sense of value which, in turn, is largely determined by disposable funds available -- very sadly in my case, not a lot :sad: No doubt if I had more cash, I'd go for a better system.
There are other factors things at work. For the same buck I could have a vinyl/tube set up, but digital is better overall for me because of the things that can be done with it that can't be done with analog. Nope, you won't persuade me otherwise :)
-
Different emphases
Quote:
Originally Posted by emorphien
Chances are you're in it more for the music, not the equipment and IMO there's nothing wrong with that. They're almost two different hobbies which some try to mix and some don't.
You're right about different hobbies, although for most audio enthusiasts/audiophiles there is overlap. (Most of us have met or at least heard of some guy who has $10k++ worth of equipment but no more than a dozen or twenty records.)
I don't know whether I'm more into the music than the average audophile. I have streak of DIY/experimenter in my that I would like to indulge. In the foresable future I'd like to build a pair of speakers utilizing active crossovers, time delay (as necessary), and equalization, all DSP. What I don't have much interest in is spending many hours A/B'ing dozens of pricey components or fiddling with exotic cables and isolation devices. I know I can make much more substantial improvements going my route than I can that route.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by emorphien
Chances are you're in it more for the music, not the equipment and IMO there's nothing wrong with that. They're almost two different hobbies which some try to mix and some don't.
Just a quick question, why cant a person love both music and expensive equipment? :confused5:
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Just a quick question, why cant a person love both music and expensive equipment? :confused5:
Did I say they couldn't?
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by emorphien
Did I say they couldn't?
No, just sounded like you meant its one or the other. No harm :-)
-
One word for you Feamor. Lazy. :prrr:
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
Here at AR, (where I call myself an "audio enthusiast" anyway), it's not so bad, but in that other place I get no respect at all.
I too consider myself an "audio enthusiast," and not an audiophile. If I'm not mistaken, "that other place" is one that kicked me off because I had the audacity to state material similar to that which you did in your post, and to openly disagree with some postings from that site's administrators. Fortunately, nothing like that happens here, as our admins seem to be built of intellectually superior stock.
I have invested over $10K in my system, and I suspect that, if I had money to spend/waste, I'd probably experiement with $35,000 turntables, $17,000 cartrdiges and stuff like that. Since I don't have that kind of money to throw around, and don't have my head in the stars, I don't do anything of the sort.
I thoroghly enjoy listening to my system, and have well over 1,000 each of LP's and CD's. I do my best to offer advice and my professional experience to anyone who asks, and have some very firm opinions of my own, based on having listened to recorded music for most of my 61 years on the planet, my frequent attendance at symphonic concerts, and the many years having been employed in the industry with a variety of manufacturers..
I find many of the postings here at Audio Review interesting, and some really silly. That's the way it goes, doesn't it?
Keep writing, and I'll keep reading, and thanks.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
Here at AR, (where I call myself an "audio enthusiast" anyway), it's not so bad, but in that other place I get no respect at all. Here are the main reasons.
- I don't love vinyl. I don't think it is inherently the superior medium. I don't like the rice krispies. I think the big difference from CD is (or was in the past) recording method, and that the best CDs are as good or better than LPs. I don't cherish handling LPs: cleaning them before and after each playing; the tense moments lowering that $$ cartridge on the record, etc..
- I don't love tubes. With good recordings, including RBCDs, decent quality solid state sounds better. I'm deeply suspicious that the "musicality", "soul", "depth", "harmonic texture", "wholeness", "continuity", etc., attributed to tubes are really artifacts of higher distortion.
- I have no patience for tweaks. My experiments with the likes of power cords have been a wast of time and I certainly have inclination to spend a $1000 each on a set of them despite claims of "huge improvement" from some golden ears. I'm "close minded" about the possible benefit of jars of pebbles and the like.
- I'm boggled at the price of very expensive components and doubt the incremental value of $5000+ amps, $10,000+ speakers, not to mention $100,000+ turntables.
- But worst of all, I have a utilitarian attitude. That is, good enough is good enough. Tiny improvements and absolute perfection aren't essential to my enjoyment of the hobby.
:16:
I think you are a fine Audiophile/enthusiast. Let them like what they like. You can enjoy what you like. Anyone who disagrees is welcome to disagree.
-
Poor, certainly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modernaire
One word for you Feamor. Lazy. :prrr:
But lazy? Do you mean I ought to while away a dozen hours a week, for example, swapping cables in search of minute (or imaginary) improvements? Ain't going to happen :ciappa:
My life might not be very exciting, but it's more exciting than that!
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
But lazy? Do you mean I ought to while away a dozen hours a week, for example, swapping cables in search of minute (or imaginary) improvements? Ain't going to happen :ciappa:
My life might not be very exciting, but it's more exciting than that!
I honestly did not understand the lazy comment or the need for it.
You like what you like and are not influenced by others or the trend of the week. I think that makes you a good audiophile.
-
Florian, who started this on another site then moved here after receiving some bashing, earned the negative comments by stating, on another forum, that Paradigm, B+W and Bose all sound the same to him. This was during another "Bose Discussion".
Some, myself included, felt this was rather demeaning and beneath the spirit of "enthusiasts" of all forms and he was called on it.
Apparently he has resorted to starting this silly thread here in order to get some pats on the back for his indulgence describing his "indulgence" as an audiophile of the highest degree.
I do not denegrate his indulgence but do not like to be demeaned for doing the best I can with what I have. In fact I celebrate his enthusiasm for it continues the efforts for the best quality of sound by the designers, manufacturers and enthusiasts. We push the envelope constantly.
Florian's time and money spent is an audiophile of the highest degree. I would rather see that than the rich person, several are my friends, who will spend outrageous, in my opinion, amounts of money on a system that they barely know how to turn on, do not know how it was set up nor how to tweak it, do not appreciate the sound expect to say how much it cost...trophy...and would be just as well served by a Bose Lifestyle system and think it too was the best they ever heard.
We can learn from enthusiasts such as Florian.
Being demeaned, whether it was meant that way or not, by such as he is generally not tolerated and those that do are called on it.
-
Feanor,
I don't think you're a "bad" audiophile at all. You just happen to be well grounded, not easily swayed, and confident in your own abilities. Nothing wrong with that all. Let's also keep in mind that your rig is far from mass market and is one that Joe Shmoe wouldn't even understand.
We've gone over the gear geek vs. music lover debate ad nauseum, so let's skip past that one again, m'kay?
For those like Bernd where this truly is a passion, I can certainly understand his depth of commitment and resources. I mean, why not? It's not like we can take it with us so you might as well indulge your interests for the short time we're all on this rock.
Personally, audio is an interesting diversion, a porthole to a different reality if you will. I'm blessed enough to have the resources to buy pretty well anything I want, but because I'm not as convicted as Bernd or others, I don't see the need to allocate as much as my attention or funds as they do (that's what cars and investments are for!). I enjoy what I have and save for the instances where some part simply becomes obsolete or breaks, rarely do I feel the need to upgrade. Oh sure, I'll build another 2 channel rig sometime, but that's for sh!ts and giggles. It won't mean that I'm dissatisfied with my current rig at all. Like you, I'm highly skeptical of magic sonic snot, green pens, and other geeky voo-doo. To Flo's credit, at least the upgrades he does make sense (unless he's simply not telling us about the other stuff ;) ).
Meh, I'm rambling. Sufficeth to say that if you're a "bad" audiophile, I'm absolutely rotten.:devil:
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
Feanor,
I don't think you're a "bad" audiophile at all. You just happen to be well grounded, not easily swayed, and confident in your own abilities. Nothing wrong with that all. Let's also keep in mind that your rig is far from mass market and is one that Joe Shmoe wouldn't even understand.
We've gone over the gear geek vs. music lover debate ad nauseum, so let's skip past that one again, m'kay?
For those like Bernd where this truly is a passion, I can certainly understand his depth of commitment and resources. I mean, why not? It's not like we can take it with us so you might as well indulge your interests for the short time we're all on this rock.
Personally, audio is an interesting diversion, a porthole to a different reality if you will. I'm blessed enough to have the resources to buy pretty well anything I want, but because I'm not as convicted as Bernd or others, I don't see the need to allocate as much as my attention or funds as they do (that's what cars and investments are for!). I enjoy what I have and save for the instances where some part simply becomes obsolete or breaks, rarely do I feel the need to upgrade. Oh sure, I'll build another 2 channel rig sometime, but that's for sh!ts and giggles. It won't mean that I'm dissatisfied with my current rig at all. Like you, I'm highly skeptical of magic sonic snot, green pens, and other geeky voo-doo. To Flo's credit, at least the upgrades he does make sense (unless he's simply not telling us about the other stuff ;) ).
Meh, I'm rambling. Sufficeth to say that if you're a "bad" audiophile, I'm absolutely rotten.:devil:
Thanks for the kind words and I do hope that I'll have a few more years left before the big listening room in the sky (or down below) is calling me.
I actually do not like the term "Audiophile" it sounds somehow like something you shouldn't be, or shouldn't be doing.
Very simple, my hobby is the audio equipment and the parts requiered to enjoy a great recording, but my passion is music. I love to listen to the music I like with the best equipment I can afford. And I think if that criteria is used then it does not matter what the budget is.
It is of course all about priorities, I drive a 10+ years old 4 wheel drive and my wife has the new high performance car, but I have the listening room and the major system.
In the end it's your ears and mostly it's you alone listening to your music. So enjoy what you got. And topspeed, if I may say so, for a rotten devil you're doing alright!:)
Play dem tunes
Bernd:16:
-
While I do not often post my membership goes back to 2003 so not particularly new to this site.
I would never tell a Bose owner that his/her speakers suck...that would be rude and uncouth. We make our purchases for many reasons and speaker purchases are generally the most "listener specific" purchase you can make. If a person were to ask me for advice regarding a speaker upgrade or purchase and was including Bose in their choice(s) I would ask them why and listen carefully to their reasoning. I would offer alternatives to Bose but always tell them to buy what makes your ears happy within the budget allocated and enjoy them.
PS: I prefer "Kai"...Mr Winters sounds condescending and a bit to formal.
In my opinion a "bad audiophile" is someone that throws money away on equiptment solely for the purpose of having a "trophy" that is bigger/better and badder than everyone elses but did not set it up because they barely have a clue on how to turn it on, no understanding of what they bought or why, would not open an owners manual or tweak said system even under extreme duress, barely even listens to it because they still do not know how to turn it all on and winds up using their "Bose Wave Machine" because it is easier...there are people out there that fit this description and bill themselves as "audiophile"...
I have been an audio enthusiast for over 30 years...going back to FM converters in cars...installing and tweaking car stereos in my cars and friends...moved to home stereo about the same time and have never stopped. Oft times we are restrained by budget and location when making purchases but I have not lost my "ear"...I am able to determine and describe the differences between speakers, receivers, etc by listening carefully. Most of us in fact do this and have quite sophisticated ears...sometimes we are limited by our benchmarks.
-
Dear Kai,
i should add that i did enjoy my beginnings where i had 4 Alarm clocks in every room tuned to the same station to my Fullrange ribbon system and everything in bettween.
I know very well what its like to have limited fund
There is a general missconeption about me on this site, and that is that i do not like systems such as B&W and Paradigm. Let me explain why this is.
As a owner of a audio systems well in realms of a new 5 series BMW i am often asked about the opinions of an audio system. I compare and judge every piece of gear against my personal reference system and then explain the shortcommings. To me a speaker needs to have 1 driver material for every single range, has to have no mass and a huge control. It should have no resonances made by a box and needs to be completely uncolored.
I do not describe a speaker with words such as "crisp" or "tight", i want a system where i am unable to tell the difference between reproduced and real. This is my personal goal!
Often a question is raised about a 600$ speaker which is already pretty expensive and there is a comment made by Woochiever, RGA, Kex etc.. where they seem to tell the new member that this Paradigm and Axiom will deliver the same sound quality then a State of the Art system for far less money. For instance, "Magnepan vs. BOSE" threads.
I for one find it laughable and so absordly wrong that i write pages and argue to the death with the likes of mentioned above to teach them. But i fail misserable and the "easiest" way to attack me is by calling me a snob and that the new member should ignore my recommendations because no one can afford them.
I see these things differently, Woochiever etc.. are croud pleaser. They say what the masses want to hear and get respect for that. Its no problem coppying the dolby guidelines or knwowing the sample rate of the new high res formats. This is not rocket sience but basic understandings. The use of carpets on the wall wont even break the waves of midrange signals.
But this is not the point, i love each and every system may they be 100 or 100000 Dollars but if Wooch comes in and tells me that he "chose" a Paradigm Ref 40 etc..over a big Electreostatic because of their supposely limited dynamic range etc. i jump in my seat and start to question the reality he is living in.
Is a Ford Mondeo a good car?
Yes, but is it as good as a Bentley Arnage?
No, it is not.
This is not sayint that the Ford is crap, but you cant compare a Ford to a Bentley.
Its the same in audio, but people use the easy way out and tell me that i am a snob because if it doesnt cost 10K it cant be good.
This is very untrue, but you need a certain budget to get quality sound. If i recommened you a 400$ speaker, how much do you think the parts cost? What about the workers, advertising, construction material, research etc... That speaker doesnt cost more then 40$ to make and B&W, Paradigm, Axiom, BOSE etc,,, are too me all the same. Mass market equipment with very big faulst and i would much rather recommend rare alternatives!
It is a fact, i would choose a 25 year old Magnepan over ANY B&W, ANY Paradigm or ANY Yamaha box.
Is this wrong? Does this mean that i do not like the person who has such a box?
No! But it is not my choice!
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
There is a general missconeption about me on this site, and that is that i do not like systems such as B&W and Paradigm. Let me explain why this is.
If it is true, it's not a missconception. It's a fact. Are you 100% sure you have never completely insulted and trashed one of these brands? Didn't think so.
Quote:
. To me a speaker needs to have 1 driver material for every single range
To me, this is the kiss of death. Show me one material in existance that behaves the same across the entire band of frequencies. You can't. Materials differ in behavior as frequencies change. I prefer consistency, sometimes this necessitates having drivers of different materials. To be honest, I don't care what the material is as long as it sounds good.
Quote:
has to have no mass
Everything has mass. Low mass or high mass by itself is not a determining factor of sound quality. That's right, mass has nothing to do with driver speed, frequency, or transient response. This is old news.
Quote:
and a huge control
Adequate control. When control exceeds the boundaries that influence human perception, it ceases to be a benefit.
Quote:
It should have no resonances made by a box
You must hate a lot of musical instruments. Personally I don't care how the sound is made, as long as it is accurate, with as little distortion as possible.
Quote:
and needs to be completely uncolored.
Agreed. Distortion sucks. You must hate ribbons as much as I do.
Quote:
Often a question is raised about a 600$ speaker which is already pretty expensive and there is a comment made by Woochiever, RGA, Kex etc.. where they seem to tell the new member that this Paradigm and Axiom will deliver the same sound quality then a State of the Art system for far less money. For instance, "Magnepan vs. BOSE" threads.
Here you go lying again. I asked you last week to provide 1 example where I, or anyone else you implicated (now Wooch and RGA, that pair beats three of a kind anyday!!!) ever mentioned that Paradigm, or Axiom (or B&W for that matter) give the "same sound quality" as something far more expensive. Didn't happen. You can't find an example. You are making this up. I don't know why.
Quote:
I for one find it laughable and so absordly wrong that i write pages and argue to the death with the likes of mentioned above to teach them. But i fail misserable and the "easiest" way to attack me is by calling me a snob and that the new member should ignore my recommendations because no one can afford them.
You miss the point again. Maybe it's the language barrier. If you ever leave your mommie's home and decide to buy your own, you migth ask for recommendations. You might have $2,000,000 to spend on a home. Nobody is doing you any favours recommending a $200,000,000,000,000,000 island somewhere.
Quote:
This is not rocket sience but basic understandings. The use of carpets on the wall wont even break the waves of midrange signals.
Did someone say it will? Or are you making more lies up?
Quote:
But this is not the point, i love each and every system may they be 100 or 100000 Dollars but if Wooch comes in and tells me that he "chose" a Paradigm Ref 40 etc..over a big Electreostatic because of their supposely limited dynamic range etc. i jump in my seat and start to question the reality he is living in.
This coming from someone who believes mass is bad and speakers should have no mass.
Quote:
This is very untrue, but you need a certain budget to get quality sound
. Wrong...YOU need to spend a certain budget to get what you THINK is quality sound. It's different for everyone, and there's no absolute right or wrong answer...
Quote:
If i recommened you a 400$ speaker, how much do you think the parts cost? What about the workers, advertising, construction material, research etc... That speaker doesnt cost more then 40$ to make and B&W, Paradigm, Axiom, BOSE etc,,, are too me all the same. Mass market equipment with very big faulst and i would much rather recommend rare alternatives!
You like rare speakers. I like good sounding speakers. I don't care if their mass market or rare, as long as they are the are among the best in their price-range.
Quote:
It is a fact, i would choose a 25 year old Magnepan over ANY B&W, ANY Paradigm or ANY Yamaha box.
Great. Other people would not. So what?
Quote:
No! But it is not my choice!
Nobody has a problem with your choices. If Apogees and Paradigms cost the same, I suspect everyone would want Apogees. They don't. You seem incapable of grasping the reality that some people don't want the absolute best sound...they want the best sound they can afford...big difference.
-
Florian based on your most recent post I have no disagreement with your statements. Matter of fact you just scared the hell out of me with your Ford vs Bentley comparison. I was going to add a similar comparison using the Ford Focus, your Mondeo, and the Bugatti but decided not to use other product comparisons to stray from the audio realm.
Unfortunately you made some people bristle, me for one, when you "stated" that to you Paradigm, B+W and Bose speakers all sound the same...that is not a worthy statement of an audio enthusiast or an audiophile but is the statement of a "snob" or one making "snobbish" comments that basically demean those "beneath" them...perhaps you did not intend it that way but you did say it in public and were called on it.
From this point on I have put the thread behind me and have enjoyed your most recent thread. It seemed, to me, to be a bit more thoughtful.
PS: The radio I have in my bathroom is the size of a Bose cube speaker, uses 4 AA batteries and is bright pink with yellow trim. It works fine for listening to the news, etc in AM mode. I can easily afford a much nicer radio but by far it is the favorite radio I will ever own because it was the first radio I bought for my daughter when she was 5. She carried it everywhere. When she out grew it I asked for it and see her every time I turn it on. She is now 21 and lives in another state where she is working on her second degree and preparing to "take care of good 'ol dad" when she is a wealthy woman...lol.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiWinters
Unfortunately you made some people bristle, me for one, when you "stated" that to you Paradigm, B+W and Bose speakers all sound the same...that is not a worthy statement of an audio enthusiast or an audiophile but is the statement of a "snob" or one making "snobbish" comments that basically demean those "beneath" them...perhaps you did not intend it that way but you did say it in public and were called on it.
Agreed 100%. He doesn't have to like them, but he's either being snobbish and condescending by that statement or really can't hear the differences and thus I doubt his ability to appreciate anything good, bad or obscenely expensive.
Perhaps his message is good, but he sure needs to work on a way to communicate it better.
-
Thanks for yet unother factless, pointless and idiot post Kex...it only further depends the opinion and the lack of respect of your knowledge we have on this forum about you. Yes i mention we, i am not alone. And while you at it, we can add Wooch. who copies and pastes articles.
-Flo
-
To emorphien and Kai,
did it upset you that i said that BOSE, Paradigm and B&W all sound the same to me?
If so, then i am sorry. But to me they are the same when it comes to box resonances, different drivers (which reminds of the idiotic post from Kex because even if they behave differently at frequency varioations then its still better to use the same material instead of using many different ones which add another layer of BS), time alignmet porblems, small radiation size and high mass.
:-)
Nothing snobbish about it, i would take the 550$ Maggie over any B&W, Paradigm or BOSE.
PS: You will soon see Wooch jump in, then maybe Topspeed and maybe RGA....after all Kex. is here too. Just wait a bit, you will see what i speak of. (the ANTI-Quality police and the ANTI-DIfferent-Than-A-BOX-Police)
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Thanks for yet unother factless, pointless and idiot post Kex...it only further depends the opinion and the lack of respect of your knowledge we have on this forum about you. Yes i mention we, i am not alone. And while you at it, we can add Wooch. who copies and pastes articles.
-Flo
Flo if your speakers are so great ,why are you putting a $3500 on a crossover.Is this changing the spec of the original.:ihih:
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT.P
Flo if your speakers are so great ,why are you putting a $3500 on a crossover.Is this changing the spec of the original.:ihih:
Because my goal is not the price, but to further improve something. Apogee saved too, even on a system like that. Genesis saves money, so does Jadis. I tweak where i can. Besides, the "IF" is not needed in your question. ;-)
-
Awww, c'mon Flo
Is that the best you can do?
You accused me of making specific statements. I called you out on it. Here's your chance to really put me in my place and get the last laugh. Provide some evidence to support your assertions.
If you cannot, I kindly ask you to remove my name from your accusations.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by kexodusc
Is that the best you can do?
You accused me of making specific statements. I called you out on it. Here's your chance to really put me in my place and get the last laugh. Provide some evidence to support your assertions.
If you cannot, I kindly ask you to remove my name from your accusations.
On second thought, your not worth my time. You have neither the knowledge nor anything to prove me wrong. I will follow the other members advice and simple ignore you just like i do with Wooch....and what i write stays.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
On second thought, your not worth my time. You have neither the knowledge nor anything to prove me wrong. I will follow the other members advice and simple ignore you just like i do with Wooch....and what i write stays.
Well, when you and your other members are ready to come out of the closet and validate your claims, you might earn some credibility. Thanks for answering Flo.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Because my goal is not the price, but to further improve something. Apogee saved too, even on a system like that. Genesis saves money, so does Jadis. I tweak where i can. Besides, the "IF" is not needed in your question. ;-)
So their really not the "HOLLY GRAIL" after all .:ihih:
-
Mike walks in to say hi to everyone. He sees all the objects flying around the room crashing onto the walls. Gives the water cooler a push and walks out.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT.P
So their really not the "HOLLY GRAIL" after all .:ihih:
Why dont you visit me?
-
Hey Kex...we are not in the closet. Did you see that the people with lots of dedication, time and money invested dont talk with you and Wooch?
-
Gads! Look what I started
Settle down, Flo. And be polite if not respectful.:frown2:
If we're not good enough for you, why not frequent AA? There are people there who will put you in your place quick enough.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
Settle down, Flo. And be polite if not respectful.:frown2:
If we're not good enough for you, why not frequent AA? There are people there who will put you in your place quick enough.
Give me one reason why i should be nice to the people who are not nice to me? And put me in my place, hardly. I freqent a forum where there are no discussions like this. Where there are no fights or silly battles and the MUSIC comes first.
Where was I inpolite?
Why dont you write something when they call me a snob, a piece of ****? Where are the mods then? I am one of the most helpfull members on here, but i get condemmed for recommending something most on here dont have?
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
To emorphien and Kai,
did it upset you that i said that BOSE, Paradigm and B&W all sound the same to me?
If so, then i am sorry. But to me they are the same when it comes to box resonances, different drivers (which reminds of the idiotic post from Kex because even if they behave differently at frequency varioations then its still better to use the same material instead of using many different ones which add another layer of BS), time alignmet porblems, small radiation size and high mass.
Not at all, you can include Bose if you want. It just makes you sound more arrogant to include Bose in any list of respectable (but perhaps mass market or boxy) speakers.
The main thing is if you state all those box speakers sound the same, you're oversimplifying and simply speaking down to everyone who has "box" speakers and being simply disrespectful. You can say they all have some of the same limitations, but paradigms, B&Ws, Axioms, AV123 (another ID but I know little about them) all have some distinctly audible differences between them. The way you talk, and your wording makes it sound like either they're all trash and sound like tinny walky talkies or you don't know what you're talking about and don't have an ear to appreciate the differences between them.
Which brings me full circle to what I've said before, perhaps that's not your message and perhaps you aren't bragging when you volunteer information about how much you like to spend on things, but you sure could find some better ways to communicate it.
-
Well well well, yet another productive thread that Florian has taken into the crapper. I would respond directly, but Florian has gone on record as saying that he does not read any of my posts.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showpo...8&postcount=32
That might explain why he continually and repeatedly lies about the posts that I've made and the topics that I bring up. Since he does not read what I have to say, I'll go ahead and take his points up from a third person perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Often a question is raised about a 600$ speaker which is already pretty expensive and there is a comment made by Woochiever, RGA, Kex etc.. where they seem to tell the new member that this Paradigm and Axiom will deliver the same sound quality then a State of the Art system for far less money. For instance, "Magnepan vs. BOSE" threads.
A bald faced lie by Florian. None of the posters cited have ever told anyone that a Paradigm or Axiom speaker will deliver the same sound quality as a "State of the Art" system. Florian has been asked by Kex and Wooch, among others, to cite posts that support his conclusion. Incidentally, Wooch has never heard an Axiom speaker and has never claimed as such.
To this date, no supporting evidence has been cited by Florian to attribute to the comments that he claims have been made, and Wooch adds that from his experience no supporting evidence to this effect exists. Only reasonable conclusion would be that Florian is either forgetful, deliberately not telling the truth, or exaggerating to an irresponsible extreme. If Florian wishes to impugn the credibility of other posters and chooses to single them out by name, then he needs to cite sources to support his assertions, otherwise the only credibility that he diminishes is his own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
I see these things differently, Woochiever etc.. are croud pleaser. They say what the masses want to hear and get respect for that. Its no problem coppying the dolby guidelines or knwowing the sample rate of the new high res formats. This is not rocket sience but basic understandings. The use of carpets on the wall wont even break the waves of midrange signals.
Simple fact is that many of the posters on this forum do not know about Dolby guidelines, sampling rates, etc. Providing this information is a "basic" but necessary function that a forum such as this one provides. Florian's statement that carpets on the wall do not "break the waves of midrange signals" is true, but then again, nobody that Wooch can remember has ever made a statement that carpets can "break" midrange signals. To Wooch, statements like this constitute a logical fallacy, otherwise known as a strawman argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_argument
Wooch does not play to the crowd. He bases his posts on personal experience, measurements, information accumulated through secondary sources, and his own opinions. If Wooch's conclusions are similar to those of other posters, it's because he chose to apply what others recommended, and came to the conclusion that advice from people such as Sir Terrence, Doc Greene, and others improved his enjoyment of the audio hobby. Wooch does not care if his posts garner respect from others on the board, because this is a hobby and his purpose for being on this board is to share the enjoyment and experience. If he gets respect, it might be because for the most part he gives respect.
Incidentally, Florian has shown enough concern about his reputation on the Audioreview board to dedicate entire threads to himself.
http://forums.audioreview.com/steel-cage/personality-poll-14044.html
http://forums.audioreview.com/site-feedback-discussion/i-hereby-quit-12174.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
But this is not the point, i love each and every system may they be 100 or 100000 Dollars but if Wooch comes in and tells me that he "chose" a Paradigm Ref 40 etc..over a big Electreostatic because of their supposely limited dynamic range etc. i jump in my seat and start to question the reality he is living in.
Another Florian fallacy, because Wooch has never said that he "chose" a Paradigm "Ref 40" over a "big Electreostatic" due to their "limited dynamic range etc." The only "Electreostatic" that Wooch considered was the Magnepan 1.6, which is not one of their "big" models. With this in mind, unless Florian can come up with an example where Wooch made this statement, then one would have to question which reality Florian is coming from.
Speaking of reality, Florian has recently gone on record as saying that Bose, Paradigm, and B&W sound the same.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showpo...5&postcount=78
Yet, Florian has also claimed that his ears can detect a 0.5 db variation.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showpo...18&postcount=5
So, if Wooch has actually measured a 2 db difference between a Bose 301 and a Paradigm Studio 40, how does Florian not hear it? After all, Bose and Paradigm sound the same to his ears. A measureable level difference of >0.5db would imply that they should not sound the same to Florian's ears.
Perhaps, a 2 db level difference is not significant, because the DAC was not mounted on a stone base. After all, Florian says that he hears differences between when a DAC is placed on stone vs. wood.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showpo...1&postcount=28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Thanks for yet unother factless, pointless and idiot post Kex...it only further depends the opinion and the lack of respect of your knowledge we have on this forum about you. Yes i mention we, i am not alone. And while you at it, we can add Wooch. who copies and pastes articles.
Kex's response to Florian made several key points that Florian chose not to respond to in a factual, reasonable, and logical manner. This type of tirade that Florian spouted out is very common throughout the Internet whenever a poster is caught making factual errors that he cannot defend. Common responses include changing the subject, repeating the same baseless point over and over, ignoring/looking past, etc. In this case, Florian responded to Kex's factual points by making personal insults that mature minds might regard as childish and weakminded. Generally, this type of behavior manifests itself because someone cannot take responsibility for a mistake or admit when they're wrong. Of course, Florian has also claimed that he's never wrong, so that might explain why he takes things so personally whenever his factual errors are pointed out.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showpo...95&postcount=5
Florian also tried a less common method of defensive posting by citing unnamed sources that support him personally, but still do not refute any of Kex's points. Wooch would add that Kex's input has not forced any threads to be moved over to the Steel Cage, which considering his high post count, would indicate a high degree of respect from others on the Audioreview board.
Florian attempts to further denigrate Wooch by accusing him of copying and pasting articles. Wooch would add that not only does he copy and post articles, he also posts his personal opinions, cites his sources, and occasionally cracks off-color jokes. In response to Florian, Wooch will link to Florian's previous posts to point out contradictions and inconsistencies, but those are not "articles."
Florian's point about "adding" Wooch to the list of ignored posters is another illogical statement, because Florian has already told Wooch on at least three previous occasions that he does not read Wooch's posts. Tense agreement is obviously a grammatical issue that Florian needs to keep straight if he wants his outbursts to sound somewhat logical.
Then again, logic does not seem to be an objective with Florian's posts.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by emorphien
Not at all, you can include Bose if you want. It just makes you sound more arrogant to include Bose in any list of respectable (but perhaps mass market or boxy) speakers.
The main thing is if you state all those box speakers sound the same, you're oversimplifying and simply speaking down to everyone who has "box" speakers and being simply disrespectful. You can say they all have some of the same limitations, but paradigms, B&Ws, Axioms, AV123 (another ID but I know little about them) all have some distinctly audible differences between them. The way you talk, and your wording makes it sound like either they're all trash and sound like tinny walky talkies or you don't know what you're talking about and don't have an ear to appreciate the differences between them.
Which brings me full circle to what I've said before, perhaps that's not your message and perhaps you aren't bragging when you volunteer information about how much you like to spend on things, but you sure could find some better ways to communicate it.
Well it must be a language barrier. This is not my main language, and i am a direct person. I know that a Paradigm Ref. 40 will blow any BOSE to pieces, and that the for a commercial company the B&Ws are great speakers. I can easily hear the differences and i can apreciate those systems. They are not what i like and i could not live with them. But they are good systems nonetheless in their respected classes.
Here are boxes that I like and that I can recommend have recommended before many times
*I will only name Companys
Avalon
Kharma
Thiel
Genesis
Alon
Dali
Naim
Ayon
Avantgarde
Duntech
Rega
Tannoy
Isis
TEAC
TDL
|