Quote Originally Posted by WmAx
Yet these tests have not been published and peer reviewed for crtitical analysis...

Do you realize that studies by David Griesinger(acoustics physicist, Lexicon) and presented at 2002 Munich AES conference showed that speakers that do not use a seperate supertweeter, with the normal tweeter rolled off, are likely to cause audible intermodulation distortion. Of the samples he tested, all had this audible distortion present. A DBT or ABX test applied ignoring this issue will be automaticly flawed.


Well, if they would go on to produce a valid study supporting their suspicions(as anyone is required to do in any field that uses a scientific method/protocol) then I would not have any issues with the claim(s).


Pointing out popularity or success of an item/trend is not represnative of it's merits. At one point, for example, exotic wires and the like were not popular. They have grown in popularity. Lots of things are successful that are not established as real. Psychics are enjoying much more money and success today then a hundred years ago. :-) Don't try to point to popularity, success, etc. as an indication of objective proof.


The kinds of people that don't want to post in an environment that requires substantiation of claims ---- if that's what you mean --- good riddance.


Well, if you believe their is a correlation between having to mix/master music and the independant issue of requiring substantiation... your views are just scewy, to be frank. Again, your trying to correlate experience with fact. Must be able to communicatino with the dead -- John Edwards says so -- he has ALOT of experience and is REALLY successful, too. Silvyia Brown, another one of thse very well-respected pyschics.They have got to be right, huh.


Indeed, I have no contributions in performing lab experiments with bandwidth. But I can point out the ones who do and their results.


Please refer to 'out of context' quotes that are fraudulently represenative of the situation(s) you are talking about. This is what you seem to imply. I provided the entire text of our communications for ANYONE to read in full. I quoted certain parts of the letters, as y ou have to select out parts to response to specifically. This was done directly after teh full text(s) were posted.


The issue I am resolving here is that their is no substantiation to suppport claims of audibility to hi-rez bandwidth over standard RBCD in playback. If that substantian pops up, then good for you and me. Don't make empty claims as if they are fact.

-Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by WmAx
Are you applying a line level low pass filter to the tweeter(22khz is likely sufficient), separately amplifying and crossing at the relevant frequency to the supertweeter? I did not see a specification such as this in your test description.

Please refer to:

Detection threshold for tones above 22 kHz

Preprint Number: 5401 Convention: 110 (April 2001)
Authors: Kiryu, Shogo; Ashihara, Kaoru

-Chris


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Thomas, the listening test you designed is dirty, complex, and loaded with unnecessary processes. I asked four other engineers who have done several AES sanctioned DBT to check out your post, and all of them said that the only thing your test will reveal, is the quality of the downconversion capabilites of a particular processor, and nothing more.


You may critize the report better when I bring the results. It will contain much more than just down-conversion.

WmAxQuote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
This has become a total waste of my time. Mtry and Chris are not going to stop the progress of high rez audio

Quote:
, because too many VERY reputable audio engineers( who have conducted their own DBT and have participated in countless others) are convinced that it sounds better than RBCD(I am on that list)

Yet these tests have not been published and peer reviewed for crtitical analysis...

Do you realize that studies by David Griesinger(acoustics physicist, Lexicon) and presented at 2002 Munich AES conference showed that speakers that do not use a seperate supertweeter, with the normal tweeter rolled off, are likely to cause audible intermodulation distortion. Of the samples he tested, all had this audible distortion present. A DBT or ABX test applied ignoring this issue will be automaticly flawed.
Quote:
Hundreds of audio engineers sing the praises of high rez, and three guys posting on a audio forum think these engineers are imagining things, hearing things, and have no proof it sound any better than redbook.

Well, if they would go on to produce a valid study supporting their suspicions(as anyone is required to do in any field that uses a scientific method/protocol) then I would not have any issues with the claim(s).
Quote:
Ears don't count because white papers don't support what you hear (what???) Your hearing is biased, the test were not valid. These are all excuses these gentlemen lay down, but whether the word maybe is used, people are noticing a improvment, and the formats are growing.

Pointing out popularity or success of an item/trend is not represnative of it's merits. At one point, for example, exotic wires and the like were not popular. They have grown in popularity. Lots of things are successful that are not established as real. Psychics are enjoying much more money and success today then a hundred years ago. :-) Don't try to point to popularity, success, etc. as an indication of objective proof.
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You three guys are forum killers. It was just the kind of behavior that you three have exibited in this thread that has chased many a experience audio person away from here

The kinds of people that don't want to post in an environment that requires substantiation of claims ---- if that's what you mean --- good riddance.
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. Nobody with a good understanding of digital audio, and years of hands on experience is interested in having three guys who have never even mixed a single piece of music to tell them that they are hearing things. Your picking and choosing what information can been deemed as credible is the height of arrogance, and does a huge disservice to this board, as it serves to only confuse someone when it is not necessary.

Well, if you believe their is a correlation between having to mix/master music and the independant issue of requiring substantiation... your views are just scewy, to be frank. Again, your trying to correlate experience with fact. Must be able to communicatino with the dead -- John Edwards says so -- he has ALOT of experience and is REALLY successful, too. Silvyia Brown, another one of thse very well-respected pyschics.They have got to be right, huh.
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The spin jobs you guy do muddles the issue, clouds the subject matter, and has added nothing to further anyone knowledge on this issue.

Indeed, I have no contributions in performing lab experiments with bandwidth. But I can point out the ones who do and their results.
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Chris, your lack of respect towards a EXTREMELY reputable audio engineer was sickening. The very fact that you don't have any mixing experience whatsoever, and you took Michael's words completely out of contexted should garner you no respect on the board at all.

Please refer to 'out of context' quotes that are fraudulently represenative of the situation(s) you are talking about. This is what you seem to imply. I provided the entire text of our communications for ANYONE to read in full. I quoted certain parts of the letters, as y ou have to select out parts to response to specifically. This was done directly after teh full text(s) were posted.
Quote:
As I said about 30 posts ago, this issue is not going to be decided here.

The issue I am resolving here is that their is no substantiation to suppport claims of audibility to hi-rez bandwidth over standard RBCD in playback. If that substantian pops up, then good for you and me. Don't make empty claims as if they are fact.

-Chris