An Open Letter to All Members

[Mr Peabody]

Emaidel could be a shrink, it didn't take him long to diagnose Pix. Now if he had the cure.

Slumpster sometimes you can be down right profound.

[emaidel]

Now that's some funny stuff.

Emaidel, I thought about your post at lunch today and came to a conclusion---you and I have very little in common. But, in a good way, if you will.

Being a bit younger than most 'round these parts I missed the "Golden Age" of audio. I'll never get to experience so many of the pieces considered "classic". Further, most of my contemporaries don't really listen to music...that rhythm and timbre and beat and pace may be occuring around them is a happy circumstance of having some equipment turned on, and quality is not an overiding concern.

I love your posts and if I don't always contribute to your threads it's because I don't have alot to offer...but I hope you stick around. And, a certain amount of disagreement is to be expected when dealing with something so opinion-based. I feel the rest of us would be none-the-better if your viewpoints were absent from these here pages.

Peace

That's very kind of you. Thank you. I really had no plans to leave - I only "left" that "other" site because someone else made me do so, but then, as has been evident from some posts here, I'm in good company.

[emaidel]

Emaidel could be a shrink, it didn't take him long to diagnose Pix. Now if he had the cure..

I have to be fair: I have to give full credit for leaky sphincter to someone else. Priceless, don't you think?

[audio amateur]

So if I understand correctly, we've come to the conclusion that pix' posts equate to 'anal leakage'?
Hmm that's not very flattering

[Rich-n-Texas]

Anal leakage?

I rely heavily on my Depends these days.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Emaidel could be a shrink, it didn't take him long to diagnose Pix. Now if he had the cure.

Slumpster sometimes you can be down right profound.

Mr. P, you cannot cure something that is a result of many generations of in breeding. We are stuck with pixelneck, and the best thing we can do is ignore the little wart, or get some wart remover.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

So if I understand correctly, we've come to the conclusion that pix' posts equate to 'anal leakage'?
Hmm that's not very flattering

Yeah, we have to get a bucket or a butt plug to deal with him. eeeewww did I just say that?

[GMichael]

Yeah, we have to get a bucket or a butt plug to deal with him. eeeewww did I just say that?

Crazy glue.

[audio amateur]

But then he'll just start barfing them up

[GMichael]

Poor Pix. We pick on him all day while he's not around to defend himself.

[Mr Peabody]

Look AR has a reputation to maintain, we can't keep allowing these outlaw posters on here that think they can come here when they get kicked off of other boards. Next thing you know it we'll become the Dodge City of the internet.

[dean_martin]

I dont' know why this is so, but I seem to have an innate ability to bring out the worst in some people. It's not something I consciously do, but it still somehow manages to happen.

When I joined AR, I had just been banned from "another" site, and wrongfully used AR as a sounding board to state my dissatisfaction with that site. Rightfully, I was informed that such was "bad form," and my posts were deleted. I rarely ever mention that "other" site, unless someone else mentions it first. If anyone's really interested in why I'm not there anymore, just send me a PM, and I'll give you all the gory details.

When I post a thread here, or a comment to another's thread, I generally do so with the purpose of providing useful information. Either I'm relying on my experience in the industry, or my personal listening experiences over the years to make the comments and judgements that I do.

If, for example, I send the woofers of my Dahlquist DQ-10's to a facility in Florida for a refoam, and that facility takes over 8 weeks to complete the repair, and sends the woofers back with a significant defect, that then becomes information readers of this site need to know about. If I then take those "repaired" woofers, and send them off to Regnar in N.Y. for a complete rebuild (for three times the money), and get them back in outstanding condition in less than two weeks, resulting in my DQ-10's sounding better than ever, then that too is noteworthy. So too, is the first outfit's statement that "we stand by our work," and then refusing to refund the $80 I paid them for a sloppy job.

If I spend $80 on a digital coax cable to connect my CD player to my DAC, and it sounds noticeably better in all respects than another one costing more than twice as much, that's worth posting too. So too is posting my stunned observations as to the significant sonic improvements the "Achromat" turnable mat makes.

If I purchase a used turntable on ebay, and receive it in near mint condition, with not one, but two perfectly functioning Shure cartridges, and then discover that the turntable winds up being the best sounding one I've ever owned, that becomes news worthy of shouting from the rooftops. And, it also provides a modicum of credibility for making purchases on ebay.

While I'm 63, and spent close to 40 years in the industry, the old adage still holds: I may grow older, but I don't necesssarily grow up. Little ticks me off more than someone disputing what I've stated, not just because they disagree (which anyone has a right to), but because they accuse me of being a liar, making up stories as I go along, and, for reasons that have totally eluded me, calling me a coward as well, then I, unfortunately, allow my ego to take over, and I respond with an equally nasty post of my own.

AR is not the place for such stuff, no matter how justified I, or others may think. My experience should give a modicum of credibility to much of what I have to say, but, since I've been retired now for almost 8 years, I know that many things have changed. I know nothing whatsoever about the interface between one's computer, and one's home audio system, and so I never dare post a comment on any such related thread.

I know cartridges very well, but not any of the newer, very expensive moving coil models, all of which I suspect would dazzle me if I were to buy one and install it in my tonearm. I've frequently heaped praise on the Stanton Collector's Series CS-100 I own because, after extended listening tests between it and many other cartridges, I prefer its sound. Some of those "others" are: Shure V/15 Type V Mxr, Ortofon MC-20 MKII, and Denon DL-103D - all fairly stiff competition for sure. To off-handedly dismiss the CS-100, without ever having heard it, is just wrong.

So, to any who may have found my posts offensive in any way, I sincerely apologize, with one very noticeable exception (see, I told you I don't have to grow up!). To those of you who feel what I have to offer is worthwhile, and interesting reading, then I hope to continue in that vein in the future.

In the meantime, happy reading, either from me, or others here at AR.

Just don't leave. I'm probably the slowest person to respond to threads that interest me. By the time I had the time to add something to the belt-drive thread, it was locked down.

I'm still planning to share my experiences with a particular platter mat. I plan to post in your thread on the Achromat.

I also read your thread on your experiences in the industry with interest.

Stick around, be yourself, etc.

[JohnMichael]

What else comes out of a leaky sphincter anyway?

Please do not make me tell you.

[bobsticks]

Please do not make me tell you.

Will....not....take......cheap.....shot....









....aaaaaaagggghhhhhh....must leave....now

[Rich-n-Texas]

This thread has gone through the ground and is now on its way to he!!

Sad, very very sad.

[Mr Peabody]

ALRIGHT LET'S KEEP IT CLEAN IN HERE!!!!!

That means no one with leaky sphincters sits on the furniture.

[bobsticks]

Far too much loose language on this board.

[Mr Peabody]

Far too much loose language on this board.

It didn't look like it was language that was loose.

[O'Shag]

Florian did go way over the top with that thread he referenced above, and I don't agree with the message and tone of it overall. But he does have a point in one respect, which is this. To give a qualified, valuable opinion, its helpful to know what a current state-fo-the-art high-end system can do for sound reproduction. This doesn't necessarily mean that one should own the best and most expensive components. As long as we have a baseline knowledge of whats possible with the best systems.. Its completely ok to own a modest entry level system - we all started there and built gradually. Its possible to be the best and most avid audiophile with a modest system. The important thing is to keep sight of the fact that the best components and systems can bring you a lot closer to the music than a moderate/ entry level system.

[Ajani]

But then he'll just start barfing them up

If certain members of our forum are suffering from copremesis, we should be alot more sympathetic....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copremesis

[Ajani]

I dont' know why this is so, but I seem to have an innate ability to bring out the worst in some people. It's not something I consciously do, but it still somehow manages to happen.

When I joined AR, I had just been banned from "another" site, and wrongfully used AR as a sounding board to state my dissatisfaction with that site. Rightfully, I was informed that such was "bad form," and my posts were deleted. I rarely ever mention that "other" site, unless someone else mentions it first. If anyone's really interested in why I'm not there anymore, just send me a PM, and I'll give you all the gory details.

When I post a thread here, or a comment to another's thread, I generally do so with the purpose of providing useful information. Either I'm relying on my experience in the industry, or my personal listening experiences over the years to make the comments and judgements that I do.

If, for example, I send the woofers of my Dahlquist DQ-10's to a facility in Florida for a refoam, and that facility takes over 8 weeks to complete the repair, and sends the woofers back with a significant defect, that then becomes information readers of this site need to know about. If I then take those "repaired" woofers, and send them off to Regnar in N.Y. for a complete rebuild (for three times the money), and get them back in outstanding condition in less than two weeks, resulting in my DQ-10's sounding better than ever, then that too is noteworthy. So too, is the first outfit's statement that "we stand by our work," and then refusing to refund the $80 I paid them for a sloppy job.

If I spend $80 on a digital coax cable to connect my CD player to my DAC, and it sounds noticeably better in all respects than another one costing more than twice as much, that's worth posting too. So too is posting my stunned observations as to the significant sonic improvements the "Achromat" turnable mat makes.

If I purchase a used turntable on ebay, and receive it in near mint condition, with not one, but two perfectly functioning Shure cartridges, and then discover that the turntable winds up being the best sounding one I've ever owned, that becomes news worthy of shouting from the rooftops. And, it also provides a modicum of credibility for making purchases on ebay.

While I'm 63, and spent close to 40 years in the industry, the old adage still holds: I may grow older, but I don't necesssarily grow up. Little ticks me off more than someone disputing what I've stated, not just because they disagree (which anyone has a right to), but because they accuse me of being a liar, making up stories as I go along, and, for reasons that have totally eluded me, calling me a coward as well, then I, unfortunately, allow my ego to take over, and I respond with an equally nasty post of my own.

AR is not the place for such stuff, no matter how justified I, or others may think. My experience should give a modicum of credibility to much of what I have to say, but, since I've been retired now for almost 8 years, I know that many things have changed. I know nothing whatsoever about the interface between one's computer, and one's home audio system, and so I never dare post a comment on any such related thread.

I know cartridges very well, but not any of the newer, very expensive moving coil models, all of which I suspect would dazzle me if I were to buy one and install it in my tonearm. I've frequently heaped praise on the Stanton Collector's Series CS-100 I own because, after extended listening tests between it and many other cartridges, I prefer its sound. Some of those "others" are: Shure V/15 Type V Mxr, Ortofon MC-20 MKII, and Denon DL-103D - all fairly stiff competition for sure. To off-handedly dismiss the CS-100, without ever having heard it, is just wrong.

So, to any who may have found my posts offensive in any way, I sincerely apologize, with one very noticeable exception (see, I told you I don't have to grow up!). To those of you who feel what I have to offer is worthwhile, and interesting reading, then I hope to continue in that vein in the future.

In the meantime, happy reading, either from me, or others here at AR.

Don't worry about it.... I suspect we've all pissed off a few forum members during our time on this site.... I'm sure I have

Keep in mind that Audio is probably one of the most subjective hobbies, so heated debates are inevitable...

Start a conversation about entry level amps from NAD, Cambridge Audio, Rotel and Marantz and you'll find members quarelling about which ones are total crap... actually you'll probably even hear a few 'they are all crap, buy a 40 year old brand x amp on audiogon for $50 instead'...

Start a thread about high end amps from Mark Levinson, McIntosh, Musical Fidelity and Krell and you'll see some serious equipment bashing occur.... Hell, I've even seen Krell refered to as 'mid-fi' not too long ago.....

And if you're feeling particularly arguementative, try discussing the sonic differences (or lack thereof) of cables and interconnects....

[Mr Peabody]

Flo, O'Shag, Ajani and anyone else I might have missed who posted along their thought line on this board, a very valid point of having at least a point of reference or some experience hearing high end gear before trying to tell people what's imagination and where diminishing returns start. You've got anywhere from Pix who thinks anything above his Integra is diminishing, to those who believe it starts after their "B&W/Rotel" system. I don't even believe it starts with a system like mine. I'm sure I am the minority but I don't believe in diminishing returns or if there are it's way toward the top of ultra high end. My main speakers originally retailed at $4.5k, later took a serious price drop, but back to the point, I've also heard the Evidence flagship set up corrrectly which costs now an excess of $100k. Not many can afford them granted but to say there isn't $95k worth of difference, realizing the subjectivity, is still stupid, especially being said from those who have never heard them and can't even imagine their ability, so how can they talk about diminishing anything. Same with any gear. My modest 1.1x DAC costs $1.5k new which is a sizeable price tag for most but again it's stupid to say it wouldn't be worth $25k to buy a Krell kps25s. Again, especially without ever hearing it. If I had the money the purchase would be a no brainer. I know gear is system dependent but the 25s is still the best digital reproduction I've heard. A higher up the line Audio Note may blow it away but I haven't heard one to know but before spending $25k you better bet I'd know. I don't have a problem with anyone saying "I doubt it" or "I think" or "in my opinion" but this board has too many receiver, or mid-fi, owners that argue and take a hard line on whether cables do anything or if it would be a diminishing return for them to buy components with a total lack of understanding, knowledge or experience. Not only is that foolish but it's annoying and a big turn off to anyone who has knowledge, experience and understanding.

An example of diminishing returns to me would be when I wanted to upgrade from my Creek OBH-8 phono stage. I tried a few that were more expensive, including a Primare that was over $700.00 which none gave me a large enough improvement to make it worth the expense. I ended up spending over $1k to get what I thought was a significant enough improvement. If I had bought a cheaper phono stage that didn't do what I wanted that would be a "diminished" return, or what I'd call a waste of money. But to spend what it takes to get the noticeable improvement is NOT a diminishing return. If you have Rotel, not to pick on them but it seems to be the brand tossed around here, it may or may not be diminished to buy a Parasound, there may or may not be an improvement depending on your taste but to spend the money on a Mac, Krell, Conrad Johnson or some other agreed on high end brand would not be diminishing because the difference in sound quality would be as significant as the price difference. Anyone who has the nerve to argue that point has no business talking high end audio. That's not rude it's a fact, how can you talk high end audio if you can't hear the difference between mid-fi and true high end gear? If one can't hear it, fine, then go back to your receiver and stick to talking ONLY to what you know. I don't have enough vision to get a drivers license, but you don't see me on the road behind the wheel despite my lack of ability. So please do me the same courtesy here talking audio. I know of at least a couple members who admitted.in posts to hearing loss yet will still argue against any benefit to better cables or tweaks. They should at least keep an open mind that they may be missing something do to their decreased acuity. Check me if I'm wrong but unless I've lost my mind you've never seen me take a hard line on any TV or video technology, that wouldn't be responsible knowing I don't have 20/20 vision. I will take a hard line on me noticing a difference in any video, I figure if I see it then most anyone should

* I admit I'm not perfect, I use myself as example on certain things because it's what I know best and I don't want to call out anyone in particular, you know who you are. Well, I did Pix but he don't count. There are some here who I've had differences with and still respect and others, well.........

[audio amateur]

If certain members of our forum are suffering from copremesis, we should be alot more sympathetic....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copremesis

I didn't start it

[audio amateur]

Actually if anyone I should be careful as I am diagnosed to have Crohn's disease. Complications may occur in the future..

[Ajani]

Flo, O'Shag, Ajani and anyone else I might have missed who posted along their thought line on this board, a very valid point of having at least a point of reference or some experience hearing high end gear before trying to tell people what's imagination and where diminishing returns start. You've got anywhere from Pix who thinks anything above his Integra is diminishing, to those who believe it starts after their "B&W/Rotel" system. I don't even believe it starts with a system like mine. I'm sure I am the minority but I don't believe in diminishing returns or if there are it's way toward the top of ultra high end. My main speakers originally retailed at $4.5k, later took a serious price drop, but back to the point, I've also heard the Evidence flagship set up corrrectly which costs now an excess of $100k. Not many can afford them granted but to say there isn't $95k worth of difference, realizing the subjectivity, is still stupid, especially being said from those who have never heard them and can't even imagine their ability, so how can they talk about diminishing anything. Same with any gear. My modest 1.1x DAC costs $1.5k new which is a sizeable price tag for most but again it's stupid to say it wouldn't be worth $25k to buy a Krell kps25s. Again, especially without ever hearing it. If I had the money the purchase would be a no brainer. I know gear is system dependent but the 25s is still the best digital reproduction I've heard. A higher up the line Audio Note may blow it away but I haven't heard one to know but before spending $25k you better bet I'd know. I don't have a problem with anyone saying "I doubt it" or "I think" or "in my opinion" but this board has too many receiver, or mid-fi, owners that argue and take a hard line on whether cables do anything or if it would be a diminishing return for them to buy components with a total lack of understanding, knowledge or experience. Not only is that foolish but it's annoying and a big turn off to anyone who has knowledge, experience and understanding.

An example of diminishing returns to me would be when I wanted to upgrade from my Creek OBH-8 phono stage. I tried a few that were more expensive, including a Primare that was over $700.00 which none gave me a large enough improvement to make it worth the expense. I ended up spending over $1k to get what I thought was a significant enough improvement. If I had bought a cheaper phono stage that didn't do what I wanted that would be a "diminished" return, or what I'd call a waste of money. But to spend what it takes to get the noticeable improvement is NOT a diminishing return. If you have Rotel, not to pick on them but it seems to be the brand tossed around here, it may or may not be diminished to buy a Parasound, there may or may not be an improvement depending on your taste but to spend the money on a Mac, Krell, Conrad Johnson or some other agreed on high end brand would not be diminishing because the difference in sound quality would be as significant as the price difference. Anyone who has the nerve to argue that point has no business talking high end audio. That's not rude it's a fact, how can you talk high end audio if you can't hear the difference between mid-fi and true high end gear? If one can't hear it, fine, then go back to your receiver and stick to talking ONLY to what you know. I don't have enough vision to get a drivers license, but you don't see me on the road behind the wheel despite my lack of ability. So please do me the same courtesy here talking audio. I know of at least a couple members who admitted.in posts to hearing loss yet will still argue against any benefit to better cables or tweaks. They should at least keep an open mind that they may be missing something do to their decreased acuity. Check me if I'm wrong but unless I've lost my mind you've never seen me take a hard line on any TV or video technology, that wouldn't be responsible knowing I don't have 20/20 vision. I will take a hard line on me noticing a difference in any video, I figure if I see it then most anyone should

* I admit I'm not perfect, I use myself as example on certain things because it's what I know best and I don't want to call out anyone in particular, you know who you are. Well, I did Pix but he don't count. There are some here who I've had differences with and still respect and others, well.........

Good Post.... I used to be a believer in diminishing returns (hell, I started the thread on that topic you're probably remembering - under my old username).... but through listening to different equipment, reading reviews and having discussions with people on this site (yourself included), I realized that audio is not that simple....

I've heard products costing three times as much, that I felt weren't worth the upgrade... I've also heard products costing 6 times as much that were worth it to me... More importantly I realized that to even say 'worth the upgrade' is so subjective and depends more on your disposable income sometimes than the actual sonic differences... Is is a Mercedes better than a Honda? In absolute terms - possibly... but is the upgrade worth it? To someone who can afford it - quite possibly... to someone who will be in severe debt for years to buy it - probably not..... Same thing with audio equipment.... Many reviewers even acknowledge this in their articles... just check out how many glowing reviews are given for specific pieces of budget gear e.g Benchmark DAC1, Revel Concerta F12, Marantz SA8001, Monitor Audio RS6... you'll even hear that the reviewer could be content living with the cheapo product (relatively cheap anyway) in their $100k reference system if they had to... Not that they would of course, since they can afford better... So now my view on audio is simply - There are good setups available at every budget......

Now, I listen to as many oppinions as I can to find products to audition.... then I trust my own ears and look in my wallet (lol)....