Noobs Ruining eBay?...

[Feanor]

Yes, familiar with this... It still shows your hand when inexperienced bidders try to see just where the max is, and go button crazy... Much better, IMHO, to lay back and wait...

But then someone invariably always goes trigger happy... I wish there was a way to contact these guys and say, " Hey... what the h**l are you doing?!..."

No, the point is that it does not show your hand. When you use a sniping service your bid is not placed until a few seconds before the bidding deadline, so nobody knows what you're bidding.

[swan24]

No, the point is that it does not show your hand. When you use a sniping service your bid is not placed until a few seconds before the bidding deadline, so nobody knows what you're bidding.

This I did not know... At least within the eBay process... Tell me more... That would be ideal... (m.) ps: I know you can purchase proprietary sniping programs, but I didn't know eBay sponsored any... Free?... (m.)

[mikemorrow]

Sniping is done all the time on ebay. I think that it is the norm now. I've lost many a bid by $0 .50 but heck they might have been willing to pay $100 more so I dont fret about it. Put in your top bid and stop playing the game. Heck put in $50 more than your what it is worth to you, dumb idea, but you might just win! and thats important to some people.

[swan24]

Sniping is done all the time on ebay. I think that it is the norm now. I've lost many a bid by $0 .50 but heck they might have been willing to pay $100 more so I dont fret about it. Put in your top bid and stop playing the game. Heck put in $50 more than your what it is worth to you, dumb idea, but you might just win! and thats important to some people.

Oh, you mean sniping programs that you buy outside of eBay... Right... I have this strategy that, if you do it right, you can beat the snipers... I mean, it takes a second or so for the signal to get from anyone's computer, to the west coast, get processed by the eBay servers, etc. If you have a max bid plugged in and waiting, and your computer is primed and ready to go, and a fast connection coming in on a relatively open IP address, you can place, let's say, your $50.00 overbid at +3 seconds, or even +2 seconds, and the sniping program might not be able to do its thing fast enough... Or the person running the program might not have put in a high enough terminal bid... At any rate, I'm pretty sure I've bet the snipers on several occasions... (m.)

[mikemorrow]

With all auctions it is the highest bidder that wins. Lets look at it this way, A guy has a snipe program, He knows he will get the last incomeing bid. Lets say he decides that the object of his dreams is worth $100.00 He programs that in.
Now there is this other guy who is dreaming of owning the same object. He has decided the he will pay $110 for it and places his highest bid with 6 days left.
now there is this girl that must have this too. She thinks that she will pay up to $120. But she wants to play the biding game and will place a bid with 3 seconds left at $5 higher that the bid showing.
The bid with 3 seconds left is at $92.50
GO!!!
The girl is very unhappy Her bid at 97.50 fell short.
The guy who paid for the snipe program thinks he got out sniped. Lost by .50
The guy who put in his highest bid 6 days ago wins. And got it with $9.50 to spare.
It always sells to the highest bidder. not the last bidder.

[mlsstl]

Whether eBay or more traditional markets, there is an interesting psychology that experienced buyers who know the market for the goods that interest them are always annoyed by overly enthusiastic newcomers. These new buyers inevitably run up the going price which results in the old-timers grousing.

It doesn't really matter if one is talking classic stereo equipment, baseball cards or antique Chippendale chairs.

Of course, what annoys the experienced buyers who feel entitled to set pricing expectations, always delights the sellers.

[swan24]

Whether eBay or more traditional markets, there is an interesting psychology that experienced buyers who know the market for the goods that interest them are always annoyed by overly enthusiastic newcomers. These new buyers inevitably run up the going price which results in the old-timers grousing.

It doesn't really matter if one is talking classic stereo equipment, baseball cards or antique Chippendale chairs.

Of course, what annoys the experienced buyers who feel entitled to set pricing expectations, always delights the sellers.

I guess I'm a dinosaur... An anachronism... I mean, I sold this 'old stuff' when it was new... So I'm forever tainted by my old value system... Still, this tube gear needs a lot of work to put it in order... And it's good stuff... But with the current trend to go back to tubes, I feel people go too far in the pricing... And the only respite from this madness used to be eBay... Well, no more... Might as well go on Audiogon... Because at least you know an audiophile owned the piece...

Know where I can buy any good Chippendale chairs cheap?... I think I'm going to sit this auction out... (m.)

[Hyfi]

I'm trying to follow along here but how does an early bid of $20 on a unit that will max out at $200, mean anything at all? I can understand if you were talking about $100 bids in the opening hours but seriously, if you expect to pay $185 near the end, how does an early $20 bit effect anything?

Not trying to stir up trouble, just trying to understand what the problem is.

[swan24]

I'm trying to follow along here but how does an early bid of $20 on a unit that will max out at $200, mean anything at all? I can understand if you were talking about $100 bids in the opening hours but seriously, if you expect to pay $185 near the end, how does an early $20 bit effect anything?

Not trying to stir up trouble, just trying to understand what the problem is.

I don't know what to say, other than to reads through the posts... It evolves... It's basically a lamentation on the overpricing of tube gear that newcomers to eBay bid up beyond its fair value... And no, it really hasn't happened yet on this particular item, but follow the bidding and we'll see where it goes... Thanks... (m.)

[Feanor]

I'm trying to follow along here but how does an early bid of $20 on a unit that will max out at $200, mean anything at all? I can understand if you were talking about $100 bids in the opening hours but seriously, if you expect to pay $185 near the end, how does an early $20 bit effect anything?

Not trying to stir up trouble, just trying to understand what the problem is.

Well I'll take a shot at it -- maybe I'm off track though.

Some sellers feel that a no- or very low-minium starting bid will attract bidders; they hope that a bidding frenzy will ensue where the price is bid up to a winning bid that's higher than it otherwise would have be. I think bidders today have become more sophisticated and aren't so easily trapped. So, IMO, an obviously very low eary bid is indeed pretty meaningless. However as towards the end of the auction I think there are still a lot of people who will increase their bids irrationally because they hate to loose by (apparently) just a few dollars.

It's possible for the seller to set any level of mimium bid, displayed to potential buyers, and/or a bid reserve, not displayed to buyers except a lower bid will show "reserve not met".

Personally when I'm selling I simply set a minium bid which the very least for which I'd be willing to sell the item -- nothing fancy about that, and unless the minimum is too high for the market it works as well as anything.

When I buy, I uses a bid sniping service and bid the maximum I'm willing to pay. So usually I set it and forget it. Although I have been know to increase, decrease, or cancel my snipe bid -- of course decreasing ar cancelling are not permitted on eBay itself.

[mlsstl]

I'm trying to follow along here but how does an early bid of $20 on a unit that will max out at $200, mean anything at all? I can understand if you were talking about $100 bids in the opening hours but seriously, if you expect to pay $185 near the end, how does an early $20 bit effect anything?

Not trying to stir up trouble, just trying to understand what the problem is.

I don't think there is a problem beyond people having differing opinions as to how things should be done. It is akin to a poker game where your opponents have a different strategy than you.

Sometimes an early bid is put out by an experienced buyer who is looking to pick up something cheap. Every now and then, for whatever reason, an auction item will not draw attention. Hence, a $200 item goes for the early $20 bid. A bidder who has this philosophy may lose on 95% of his bids, but it is a spectacular buy when he does win.

Another philosophy is that a steady rise in the price during the auction period may chase off those looking for a steal, thus reducing the number of competitors. This might increase the odds of getting the piece, or getting a slight deal.

The essential issue is that no one bidder has control over the bidding philosophy of any other bidder.A strategy that works brilliantly in one situation may fail in another. That's why each buyer needs to have a clear picture in their mind of how badly they want something and how much they are willing to pay. Combine that with the understanding that someone else may have their line in the sand a little further down the beach.

[Feanor]

I don't know what to say, other than to reads through the posts... It evolves... It's basically a lamentation on the overpricing of tube gear that newcomers to eBay bid up beyond its fair value... And no, it really hasn't happened yet on this particular item, but follow the bidding and we'll see where it goes... Thanks... (m.)

Again, I think you're partly wrong. I don't thing (eBay) noobies are responsible for bidding specifically tube gear higher than any of the other thousands of things for sale.

The reason that antique tube gear is so expensive is that people want it. It seems a bit crazy to me too. E.g. in my observation a 1968 McIntosh C22 preamp will often sell for more than a used, current-production C220 -- this seems irrational to me.

[Hyfi]

Well I'll take a shot at it -- maybe I'm off track though.

Some sellers feel that a no- or very low-minium starting bid will attract bidders; they hope that a bidding frenzy will ensue where the price is bid up to a winning bid that's higher than it otherwise would have be. I think bidders today have become more sophisticated and aren't so easily trapped. So, IMO, an obviously very low eary bid is indeed pretty meaningless. However as towards the end of the auction I think there are still a lot of people who will increase their bids irrationally because they hate to loose by (apparently) just a few dollars.

It's possible for the seller to set any level of mimium bid, displayed to potential buyers, and/or a bid reserve, not displayed to buyers except a lower bid will show "reserve not met".

Personally when I'm selling I simply set a minium bid which the very least for which I'd be willing to sell the item -- nothing fancy about that, and unless the minimum is too high for the market it works as well as anything.

When I buy, I uses a bid sniping service and bid the maximum I'm willing to pay. So usually I set it and forget it. Although I have been know to increase, decrease, or cancel my snipe bid -- of course decreasing ar cancelling are not permitted on eBay itself.

Thanks Bill. I do get all that. I just went back and looked at the item on ebay and it is still sitting at $20.50, same price it was at when this post was started. Just how is this effecting anything at all?

[swan24]

As far as newbies, I guess it's time for a true story:

I was selling a small mini stereo system about 2 months back... An Onkyo CS 325 with all-in-one tuner /CD player/ amp... You know the type... Basically a bedroom system...

I had it listed for pick-up only... As a matter of fact, the listing showed 'for pick-up only' in three seperate places on the listing... I simply did not want to pack the thing up and go through that hassle...

So this guy with a feedback of (1) takes the opening bid, which I pegged at the lowest price I would want to part with it... Good start, I thought...

Anyway, I thought I'd send him a friendly reminder to note that the item was for pick-up only... Shortly after that, and without getting back to me at all, he retracts his bid...

OK... So I'm a little miffed, but, what the hey... People retract bids all the time... But I was curious, so I got into his bidding history... Well, you would not believe this, but he had retracted about a dozen bids in the previous week... But the real kicker was that he had bid on over 30 stereo mini systems in the same time-frame... It was all there in his history...

I alerted eBay, and asked them how anyone could retract 12 bids in a week without garnering eBay's attention... They looked into the matter, and found out the guy actually thought he could bid on any number of items, then when he saw something he thought was better, simply retract his previous bids en masse, and continue on from there...

He was basically perusing eBay, bidding, retracting, bidding again, bidding more, retracting and then leaving any number of sellers scratching their heads... eBay got back to me and said that they alerted him to the fact that that is not how eBay worked, and that he should not bid unless he was serious about buying and paying if he won...

Anyway, this guy never returned my friendly messages, and just ignored me, and kept bidding /retracting bids... Until eBay caught up with him... Oh, and the only other thing he purchased on eBay was a powdered energy drink... (m.)

[Hyfi]

Anyway, this guy never returned my friendly messages, and just ignored me, and kept bidding /retracting bids... Until eBay caught up with him... Oh, and the only other thing he purchased on eBay was a powdered energy drink... (m.)

Thats a great little story.

What does it have to do with the unit you created this post about that is sitting at $20.50 and has not moved since you posted the link saying that the bid is being run up and out of proportion to the value of the used old gear?

[swan24]

Again, I think you're partly wrong. I don't thing (eBay) noobies are responsible for bidding specifically tube gear higher than any of the other thousands of things for sale.

The reason that antique tube gear is so expensive is that people want it. It seems a bit crazy to me too. E.g. in my observation a 1968 McIntosh C22 preamp will often sell for more than a used, current-production C220 -- this seems irrational to me.

No, not specifically tube gear, but in this case, I could see the handwriting on the wall... Maybe it will all work out alright, I don't know... But these two guys-- one with a feedback of zero, and one with (1)-- are likely to bid irresponsibly on the item, and drive up the price... I think that was really the crux of why I came on to talk about it...

As far as these two guys wanting it, if they were audiophiles with any sense at all about pricing and value, they would not have kicked off the whole enterprise as they did... It's highly likely that both are clueless... about pricing, and about the gear they are trying to buy...

[swan24]

Thats a great little story.

What does it have to do with the unit you created this post about that is sitting at $20.50 and has not moved since you posted the link saying that the bid is being run up and out of proportion to the value of the used old gear?

At this juncture, I think you're just trying to pin me down about an opening post that I might not have expressed in the best way possible, but then later explained fairly well...

The story above is just a sidebar... But somewhat relevant to the thread...

I would say that it generally falls under the heading of expanding on a topic... (m.)

[GMichael]

Thats a great little story.

What does it have to do with the unit you created this post about that is sitting at $20.50 and has not moved since you posted the link saying that the bid is being run up and out of proportion to the value of the used old gear?

I think he started an intersting topic. Maybe just blowing off a little steem about a bidding strategy that looked stupid (or newbish) to him. It does seem to have brushed the cobwebs off a few people's post buttons around here.

[Hyfi]

At this juncture, I think you're just trying to pin me down about an opening post that I might not have expressed in the best way possible, but then later explained fairly well...

The story above is just a sidebar... But somewhat relevant to the thread...

I would say that it generally falls under the heading of expanding on a topic... (m.)

Whatever. I don't think anything was explained too well. People bid on things they want. People buy things they want, sometimes with no concern of the cost. I don't look at prices in the supermarket, I walk in needing or wanting something and I buy it. My mother in law doesn't buy anything that is not on sale or has a coupon for. I can't tell you how many times she has asked me what I paid for a mundane item and my response is "I have no idea or care".

Older tube and other vintage gear is highly desirable because most of today's mass market gear is pure crap when compared to these older receivers costing the same or less. Even after you drop some dimes refurbing it to your desired state, they are still better than a lot of today's gear.

Why does it surprise you that people, newbies on ebay, or anyone else bids on items they want to own?

[swan24]

Whatever. I don't think anything was explained too well. People bid on things they want. People buy things they want, sometimes with no concern of the cost. I don't look at prices in the supermarket, I walk in needing or wanting something and I buy it. My mother in law doesn't buy anything that is not on sale or has a coupon for. I can't tell you how many times she has asked me what I paid for a mundane item and my response is "I have no idea or care".

Older tube and other vintage gear is highly desirable because most of today's mass market gear is pure crap when compared to these older receivers costing the same or less. Even after you drop some dimes refurbing it to your desired state, they are still better than a lot of today's gear.

Why does it surprise you that people, newbies on ebay, or anyone else bids on items they want to own?

Well, it doesn't surprise me that they bid... But it's a constant surprise just how stupidly they do it... I mean, even if you weren't an eBay expert, common sense would tell you not to open a bidding war on an item you wanted... At least, not that particular way...

It could be any type of gear, really: A pair of skis, a cherished watch, a telletubby, whatever... (m.)

[Hyfi]

Well, it doesn't surprise me that they bid... But it's a constant surprise just how stupidly they do it... I mean, even if you weren't an eBay expert, common sense would tell you not to open a bidding war on an item you wanted... At least, not that particular way...

It could be any type of gear, really: A pair of skis, a cherished watch, a telletubby, whatever... (m.)

Now I get it. You are expecting everyone who bids on ebay to think and bid exactly as you do.

So if these people you are calling stupid end up getting the pc of gear that they really want, and you don't get it for the price you think you should, just how stupid are they?

[swan24]

Now I get it. You are expecting everyone who bids on ebay to think and bid exactly as you do...

That's basically a strawman argument, that is, an argument I really didn't make...

[Hyfi]

That's basically a strawman argument, that is, an argument I really didn't make...

You should go back and re-read some of your responses. You have repeatedly called other bidders stupid because they do not think and bid as you do.

I'm out. I'll just sit back and see where this one goes, if anywhere at all.

[mikemorrow]

The thing is, we all bid differantly. Like I said I bid once and on the first day. I bid my max. And forget it. If I get out bid thats fine. I'll find another one somewhere down the road. I guess I'm too laid back. LOL

[GMichael]

The thing is, we all bid differantly. Like I said I bid once and on the first day. I bid my max. And forget it. If I get out bid thats fine. I'll find another one somewhere down the road. I guess I'm too laid back. LOL

That has worked for me. I put in what I feel is a fair price. If I win, I win. If I'm outbid, then I didn't want to pay a higher price anyhow. Could I bid with more stratagy? Sure, if I wanted to be bothered. I'm just not that into it.