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  1. #51
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    You should go back and re-read some of your responses. You have repeatedly called other bidders stupid because they do not think and bid as you do.

    I'm out. I'll just sit back and see where this one goes, if anywhere at all.
    I'd like to give others a chance to chime in as well... Taking a break...

  2. #52
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    No, not specifically tube gear, but in this case, I could see the handwriting on the wall... Maybe it will all work out alright, I don't know... But these two guys-- one with a feedback of zero, and one with (1)-- are likely to bid irresponsibly on the item, and drive up the price... I think that was really the crux of why I came on to talk about it...

    As far as these two guys wanting it, if they were audiophiles with any sense at all about pricing and value, they would not have kicked off the whole enterprise as they did... It's highly likely that both are clueless... about pricing, and about the gear they are trying to buy...
    Well I see your point here. Bidders can be have stupidly.

    I mentioned above that I bought a used Denon TU-767 on eBay for <$80 and felt I got a pretty good deal. But here's the story told about this tuner at the Tuner Information site:

    Quote Originally Posted by fmtunerinfo.com
    Denon TU-767 (1985, $350)
    A digital tuner that can have either a black or silver face, the TU-767 tunes in increments of .1 MHz and has unusual muting/signal locking circuitry that is not intuitive. Still, it looks good, sounds great, and for DXing is on a par with the mid-line Kenwoods like the KT-7300 and KT-6500 (but not as good as the KT-7500 or KT-815/615), when modified. Stereophile considered the TU-767 to be one of the cleanest-sounding tuners, with the best stereo separation available at the time. The TU-767 usually sells for $40-80 on eBay, with a recent low of $11 in 8/09. In 6/04, two lunatics bid up a mint one from $58 to a bizarre $395, and then three hours later the "loser" bought another one for $110! [EF]

  3. #53
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    OK,I'm new here,and still reading all the different posts. I think I understand the person that started this threads point. I Think.......
    Let's see if I've got this right,he was complaining that a (0) feedback bidder was placing 6-7 bids in a row. Thus,driving the price up. ($20.50) That I understand. But..

    This I don't understand. The poster of this thread said he thought the item would end,around $189-220. So it stayed way below his expected ending price, $101.00,below.
    So,did the op win this item? Or did someone else,get a bargin basement price? That is if the item was worth the op's expected selling price. Were I'm confused is,the item sold for $88.00, and if the op didn't get it,why not,it stayed way below his own number's.

  4. #54
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badhabit67
    OK,I'm new here,and still reading all the different posts. I think I understand the person that started this threads point. I Think.......
    Let's see if I've got this right,he was complaining that a (0) feedback bidder was placing 6-7 bids in a row. Thus,driving the price up. ($20.50) That I understand. But..

    This I don't understand. The poster of this thread said he thought the item would end,around $189-220. So it stayed way below his expected ending price, $101.00,below.
    So,did the op win this item? Or did someone else,get a bargin basement price? That is if the item was worth the op's expected selling price. Were I'm confused is,the item sold for $88.00, and if the op didn't get it,why not,it stayed way below his own number's.

    Checking the bidding history, looks like someone came out of the blue and took it for a good price, IMO... The original bidders seemed to drop out of the fray... So, in the end, this was not a particularly good example of my point... And my point was that inexperienced bidders are inexperienced buyers, and uneccesarily drive up the prices on eBay... (m.)

  5. #55
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    Checking the bidding history, looks like someone came out of the blue and took it for a good price, IMO... The original bidders seemed to drop out of the fray... So, in the end, this was not a particularly good example of my point... And my point was that inexperienced bidders are inexperienced buyers, and uneccesarily drive up the prices on eBay... (m.)
    Actually this was your chosen example and your point was proven wrong. Or pointless as the case may be.
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  6. #56
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Actually this was your chosen example and your point was proven wrong. Or pointless as the case may be.
    On the whole, I'd say that my point is valid enough... Following the trends over time would illustrate this well enough... (m.)

  7. #57
    Forum Regular luvtolisten's Avatar
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    I don't let other bids bother me. I just put in what it's worth to me. One time. If I win great! If get it lower,even better. I don't win, no big deal, it went for more than I was willing to pay anyway. To be honest, I think the days of great deals on ebay are fewer and fewer. Especially by the time you pay for usually overinflated shipping.

  8. #58
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    On the whole, I'd say that my point is valid enough... Following the trends over time would illustrate this well enough... (m.)
    Your opinion is your own and not backed up by any factual data that you've provided. Your one example has proven your thesis wrong, but you refuse to accept that. You can can continue to believe in your phantom "trend", but I for one am not buying it one bit.
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  9. #59
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Your opinion is your own and not backed up by any factual data that you've provided. Your one example has proven your thesis wrong, but you refuse to accept that. You can can continue to believe in your phantom "trend", but I for one am not buying it one bit.

    How can one example prove anything right or wrong?... My experience on eBay over time would indicate that new bidders tend to bid frivilously, and often drive up the prices on eBay...

    Also, a comment: I just noticed that you are the site moderator here... After a thread turns into a rather heated debate, isn't it your job to, well, moderate?... That is, not necessarily take sides?... (m.)

  10. #60
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    One example proves nothing, just as a "feeling" about a trend on ebay does.

    One of my job as moderator is to make sure that threads don't get out of control. That I'm a moderator has nothing to do with me having the right to speak my mind on any subject I might have an opinion on. In that respect I have the same rights that you do.
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  11. #61
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    One example proves nothing, just as a "feeling" about a trend on ebay does.

    One of my job as moderator is to make sure that threads don't get out of control. That I'm a moderator has nothing to do with me having the right to speak my mind on any subject I might have an opinion on. In that respect I have the same rights that you do.

    I don't know, Geo... You seemed to come out of the gate pretty strong for a moderator...

    As far as the topic, I'd concede that your personal experience on eBay may be different than mine... Differing opinions is what makes the world go 'round... But to state someone is unequivocally wrong is another story entirely... (m.)

  12. #62
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    Didn't really have the time to read all the posts, but i think what happens a lot is....PersonA starts a auction, then gets a friend who just registers( PersonB) to run up the auction to cover PersonA's back.

    this happens to me frequently and when it does i just move on. You cannot get emotional about this stuff...if you do, then it means a lot to you and you should bid to win it.

    In my 11 years on ebay, i've rarely, if ever, paid more than i thought the item was worth.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    I don't know, Geo... You seemed to come out of the gate pretty strong for a moderator... (m.)


    After a thread turns into a rather heated debate, isn't it your job to, well, moderate?... That is, not necessarily take sides?
    Swan,

    Relax! It was just a discussion of differing opinions for one thing. For another, you have never seen a thread here become "rather heated". (they are in the archives from 10 years ago) This is a very tame thread for a whole bunch of people with differing, but always correct, opinions.

    Point taken, people play games....on eBAY and every where else you look.

    I am fully aware that Geoff can respond himself but as far as your moderator comments go, we have a nice handful of great moderators here. All of them post regularly and just like you, have their own ideas, opinions, and experience.

    Geoff's couple responses were not an attack or taking sides by any stretch. He merely pointed out the obvious.

    Now off to Happy Hour, the first pint is on me!

    Thats where I'm headed to celebrate getting the stitches out of my back an hour ago.

    Cheers....

  14. #64
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    In the whole realm of the possible, things don't really have to be one thing or another...

    They can often be one thing and another... And another... Etc....

    I was voicing my personal experience... Others' may differ... In that realm, nothing is obvious, I would think...

    If that wasn't so, forums wouldn't exist... They're a platform for different opinions and perspectives...

    IMO, the problem comes when someone tries to invalidate another's opinion... Or state that they are somehow categorically wrong...

    There's a discernable line there... (m.)

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    In the whole realm of the possible, things don't really have to be one thing or another...

    They can often be one thing and another... And another... Etc....

    I was voicing my personal experience... Others' may differ... In that realm, nothing is obvious, I would think...

    If that wasn't so, forums wouldn't exist... They're a platform for different opinions and perspectives...

    IMO, the problem comes when someone tries to invalidate another's opinion... Or state that they are somehow categorically wrong...

    There's a discernable line there... (m.)
    OK, so how does the above differ from you calling people stupid because they don't play the game exactly how you do, or the way you think everyone should?

    Ah nevermind.... it really doesn't matter now does it?

    Beer of the night....several pints of Victory Yakima Glory. A nice hoppy treat.

  16. #66
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    OK, so how does the above differ from you calling people stupid because they don't play the game exactly how you do, or the way you think everyone should?

    Ah nevermind.... it really doesn't matter now does it?

    Beer of the night....several pints of Victory Yakima Glory. A nice hoppy treat.

    In this case, I was speaking (above) mostly to the act of moderating... As far as mattering, it does appear to matter, as you've already voiced a rather strong opinion on the issue... (m.)

  17. #67
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    Hifi Victory Yakima Glory? Nice brew I hear. I'm an old hophead from the west coast. We could talk Ales here. LOL

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemorrow
    Hifi Victory Yakima Glory? Nice brew I hear. I'm an old hophead from the west coast. We could talk Ales here. LOL
    It was real nice on tap and it was my first time tasting it. They had the Hop Devil also which I love. Wild Devil is also quite good.

  19. #69
    Forum Regular luvtolisten's Avatar
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    Now you got me thinking....................
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  20. #70
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    On the whole, I'd say that my point is valid enough... Following the trends over time would illustrate this well enough... (m.)
    Speaking of illustrating, perhaps you can provide an example which actually supports your assertion.

    rw

  21. #71
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Speaking of illustrating, perhaps you can provide an example which actually supports your assertion.

    rw

    I'd have to follow a few auctions, so that would take some time... I will offer my own experience, which led up to this thread: Over the last 6 months or so, I was trying to assemble a small tube-based audio system on a budget... The budget part is important, as I am a disabled vet, and don't have a lot of money to throw around...

    Well, I've traditionally gone on eBay to do this, and up until relatively recently, it has been a good place to find tube gear at a good price... Let me segue a bit into the fact that I am old enough to have sold some of this stuff when I worked in audio in NYC in the late 60's and early 70's... So it was undoubtedly my previous experience that colored my feelings about the current price of the gear...

    So, in a general sense, people going gaga over tube gear, and offering what I feel are ridiculous prices for same has always left me scratching my head... But particularly those who are new to eBay, and also are just bidding up the items because they got caught up in the hype, and also do not know how to bid...

    That was it... I came on here to express my feelings over all the hoopla concerning overpriced tube gear-- particularly when this was put in tandem with new and inexperienced bidders on eBay... I think it was partly a rant, although I felt it was also a real problem for those on a budget who used to be able to buy at reasonable prices on eBay...

    So, in a way, it was a hit on eBay, and new bidders... Some of the older members on here undoubtedly did get my lamentation... But others seemed to take offense to it... So be it... I was just relating my own experiences and feelings on the subject... I wasn't trying to state universal fact, or anything else of the kind... (m.)

  22. #72
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I do believe inexperienced bidders inflate prices. I have done it, myself. I have sometimes overpaid by not having a good feel for the value of an item, but I get great deals on the stuff I do know.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    So, in a general sense, people going gaga over tube gear, and offering what I feel are ridiculous prices for same has always left me scratching my head... But particularly those who are new to eBay, and also are just bidding up the items because they got caught up in the hype, and also do not know how to bid...

    That was it... I came on here to express my feelings over all the hoopla concerning overpriced tube gear-- particularly when this was put in tandem with new and inexperienced bidders on eBay... I think it was partly a rant, although I felt it was also a real problem for those on a budget who used to be able to buy at reasonable prices on eBay...
    The logical next question is what's your solution? Ban new bidders until they show they can behave themselves? Have a special playpen where they can practice until they get the needed pricing experience?

    Of course, you'd have a fight with the sellers. They rather like those bid-up prices. ;-)

    As noted previously, it is a pretty universal human experience to dislike changes to one's world that disrupts what has been. But then change is one of the few certainties.

  24. #74
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlsstl
    The logical next question is what's your solution? Ban new bidders until they show they can behave themselves? Have a special playpen where they can practice until they get the needed pricing experience?

    Of course, you'd have a fight with the sellers. They rather like those bid-up prices. ;-)

    As noted previously, it is a pretty universal human experience to dislike changes to one's world that disrupts what has been. But then change is one of the few certainties.
    Perhaps directing newly minted eBayer's to a basic tutorial on bidding?... Maybe an eBay Lite?... Or a mock bidding program, where people can hone their skills? [akin to your playpen idea]... Although I see no real incentive for eBay/Pay-Pal, or sellers to get people to bid wisely... They get too much benefit out of having items bid up...

    As far as change, given the state of the economy, why can't things change toward the more frugal?... They should be downwardly adjusting, IMHO... (m.)

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    ... Although I see no real incentive for eBay/Pay-Pal, or sellers to get people to bid wisely... They get too much benefit out of having items bid up...

    As far as change, given the state of the economy, why can't things change toward the more frugal?... They should be downwardly adjusting, IMHO... (m.)
    You hit the nail on the first point. eBay's incentive is for things to sell for more not less. Besides, in an ideal situation, they would be neutral. Their only input on pricing would be to watch for fraud rather than try to influence what the price "should be."

    Regarding your second comment that prices "should be" trending downward, keep in mind that eBay has 81 million registered users (per most recent Annual Report). Every one of those users is a potential competitor for any given item.

    Different buyers have different reasons for wanting something, different bidding philosophies and different spots where they draw a line in the sand. The mix of those variables is different for every auction.

    Interestingly, I have a piece of old, but refurbished tube gear for sale on Audiogon. The past month I've only gotten lowball offers. Even though I'm at the low end of the price range for refurbed amps of this type, I've not been offered more than the going rate for an untouched unit, the old let's get something for nothing ploy. Apparently the inexperienced buyers are not frequenting that spot!

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