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  1. #1
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Noobs Ruining eBay?...

    I'm looking to seriously bid on this nice vintage HK FM tube tuner, and look what some newbies are doing to the bidding, a full 7 days before it ends:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250779171116

    Check out the bidding history...

    I mean, the same guy with zero feedback is even bidding against himself with seven full days to go in the auction, driving up the price... Crazy...

    I'm familiar with the guy offering the item... He has nice stuff for sale... He was offering a Dyna FM 3 tuner, immaculate... But a couple of noobs bid the darn thing up into the stratosphere early on... They should have a special edition of eBay where the truly stupid could bid their hearts out and spend many times what an item is worth... Only thing is, all the sellers would be listing on there... Jheesh... (m.)

  2. #2
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Very nice tuner, just what I've been looking for!




    NOT!

    It is a nice tuner though.
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  3. #3
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    Very nice tuner, just what I've been looking for!




    NOT!

    It is a nice tuner though.

    Oh, please...please... Take it... I can't stand this anymore... I've been around for far too long... I've sold stuff like this when it was new... I'm a dinosaur... An anachronism... I don't deserve to live...

  4. #4
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    I'm looking to seriously bid on this nice vintage HK FM tube tuner, and look what some newbies are doing to the bidding, a full 7 days before it ends:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250779171116

    Check out the bidding history...

    I mean, the same guy with zero feedback is even bidding against himself with seven full days to go in the auction, driving up the price... Crazy...

    I'm familiar with the guy offering the item... He has nice stuff for sale... He was offering a Dyna FM 3 tuner, immaculate... But a couple of noobs bid the darn thing up into the stratosphere early on... They should have a special edition of eBay where the truly stupid could bid their hearts out and spend many times what an item is worth... Only thing is, all the sellers would be listing on there... Jheesh... (m.)
    You cannot bid against yourself on Ebay. You can raise your bid maximum, or bid up against someone else one bid at a time, but not against yourself. The tuner is up to like $20 right now so I don't see what's got you so steamed. Were you expecting to get it for less?
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  5. #5
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    You cannot bid against yourself on Ebay. You can raise your bid maximum, or bid up against someone else one bid at a time, but not against yourself. The tuner is up to like $20 right now so I don't see what's got you so steamed. Were you expecting to get it for less?

    Yes, right... And, no, I'm not expecting it for less... I am anticipating a premature bidding war by guys who do not do their homework as to what an item is really worth... Good for the seller, but not so good for audiophiles who want to find a deal, and know what the equipment's max value is...

    As they say, it's worth whatever you are willing to pay... But if one just makes it an ego game, or does not bother to check values, it becomes a losing game... (m.)

  6. #6
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    You know that these days the vintage stuff goes for a lot of money especially the tube stuff you are looking at!

    .
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    My vintage gear!!! http://i48.tinypic.com/t66o1v.png

  7. #7
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    Yes, right... And, no, I'm not expecting it for less... I am anticipating a premature bidding war by guys who do not do their homework as to what an item is really worth... Good for the seller, but not so good for audiophiles who want to find a deal, and know what the equipment's max value is...

    As they say, it's worth whatever you are willing to pay... But if one just makes it an ego game, or does not bother to check values, it becomes a losing game... (m.)
    I'm just not taking your point, Swan. What in you humble opinion is this F500X "really worth"? The current bid is $20.50: what are you afraid it might go up to?

    In general tube analog tuners are highly sought-after and command fairly high prices. This Harmon Kardon model won't fetch a much, say, a McIntosh M78 (as HERE), but it very likely sell for a good price -- if you're bargain hunting you'll probably be disappointed.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Perhaps if you guys wanted the item, you might catch my drift... Also, I think part of my problem is that I was around and into audio when this stuff was new... I might have a different value system going here...

    At any rate, I might be overreacting, but it shure would be nice if bidders held back until the last moment to bid on the item... Anyone hazard a guess how high it might go?...

    I'd say about $189.00 > $220.00... Of course, that's according to my value system... (m.)

  9. #9
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    If it plays as good as it looks and you like FM stereo it would be a nice find. Someone years back gave me a Macintosh FM receiver. This had tubes for the FM section and transistors for the amplifier section. I tried to use the audio output of this reciver into another amplifier but that output was just too much pre-amplified voltage to use and there was no variable volume control on the unit. The FM section however picked up stations like no tomorrow and the perspective audio quality sounded like the best tube stuff I heard way back in the 60s. It produced such a different quality sound then transistorized units and confirmed to me that the vintage audio that I heard way back when from tube stuff was quite nice.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelsci
    If it plays as good as it looks and you like FM stereo it would be a nice find. Someone years back gave me a Macintosh FM receiver. This had tubes for the FM section and transistors for the amplifier section. I tried to use the audio output of this reciver into another amplifier but that output was just too much pre-amplified voltage to use and there was no variable volume control on the unit. The FM section however picked up stations like no tomorrow and the perspective audio quality sounded like the best tube stuff I heard way back in the 60s. It produced such a different quality sound then transistorized units and confirmed to me that the vintage audio that I heard way back when from tube stuff was quite nice.

    Right... I look at vintage audio [now] not from a standpoint of the charm of the stuff, but what kind of sound per dollar it might deliver over current gear... Tube tuners are a classic example: They almost always deliver a sound that I feel is superior to solid state tuners per dollar spent... Now, as far as money outlay, if you buy on eBay, you can pretty much follow the rule of 2's... I mean, you buy a tuner like the one above, and you're pretty much going to double the cost to send it out, have it aligned, maybe a few mods/updates, cleaning, a few NOS tubes, whatever [I have a friend who can do all that, but he does charge me]... That's why it's only worth so much to me as is... No matter how much the previous owner talks it up as being plug and play... Or how good the thing looks...

    Then into the fray jumps all manner of bidders... Some who might revere the item for it's sentimental value... Or looks... Or someone told him/her that it was the best thing since chopped liver, whatever... The Mac stuff is like that... I've sold [in the 70's] Mac set-ups that were then over 15 grand... And it was solid state stuff, and, well, let's just say that you could do better with the Japanese stuff at the time, or the more easily acquired, not-quite-vintage-yet tube gear that was showing up as trade-ins... (m.)

  11. #11
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    When I'm on Ebay I bid in my top dollar bid right away, and move on. If I win I win. If I lose, it went for more than I was willing to pay. I never wait till the last second to bid. Some ppl just nickle and dime to death. I guess they get off on the thrill of the auction. I just move on to the next idem. It might take me a year or two to get what I want at the price i'm willing to pay. But sooner or later I get it.

  12. #12
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    Perhaps if you guys wanted the item, you might catch my drift... Also, I think part of my problem is that I was around and into audio when this stuff was new... I might have a different value system going here...

    At any rate, I might be overreacting, but it shure would be nice if bidders held back until the last moment to bid on the item... Anyone hazard a guess how high it might go?...

    I'd say about $189.00 > $220.00... Of course, that's according to my value system... (m.)
    Could it sell over $220? Definitely. It's a tube/analog tuner, after all. Would it be worth that money to me personally? No, but that's another matter. But it is to a lot of people -- and they aren't noobies, they are collectors and tuner aficionados.

    I sold this sweet, analog but solid state Denon TU-500 for about $280 ...



    I replaced it with this quartz-tuned, digital Denon TU-767 because I listen at most two radio stations, and these not very often. I paid less than $80 for it and deem that a good value for an FM tuner ...


  13. #13
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    Like others have said, I don't see the problem.

    But yeah, a whole $20.50 might be way too much for a nice tuner like this. Specially if ya have to lay out another whole $20 to spiff it up a bit.

    Are you really serious? What would you have expected to pay, $2 or $5?

  14. #14
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Like others have said, I don't see the problem.

    But yeah, a whole $20.50 might be way too much for a nice tuner like this. Specially if ya have to lay out another whole $20 to spiff it up a bit.

    Are you really serious? What would you have expected to pay, $2 or $5?

    Read some of my above (^)... 'Splains it pretty well... (m.)

  15. #15
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    I'm looking to seriously bid on this nice vintage HK FM tube tuner, and look what some newbies are doing to the bidding, a full 7 days before it ends:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250779171116

    Check out the bidding history...

    I mean, the same guy with zero feedback is even bidding against himself with seven full days to go in the auction, driving up the price... Crazy...

    I'm familiar with the guy offering the item... He has nice stuff for sale... He was offering a Dyna FM 3 tuner, immaculate... But a couple of noobs bid the darn thing up into the stratosphere early on... They should have a special edition of eBay where the truly stupid could bid their hearts out and spend many times what an item is worth... Only thing is, all the sellers would be listing on there... Jheesh... (m.)
    It looks like the one guy is using the function that lets him outbid any new bidders by 0.50, up to his set limit. Every time someone else enters a higher bid, all you see is the one guy upping his bid. Itís all automatic. Thatís why it looks like he is bidding against himself. Looks like a decent unit. Good luck with your bids. What price are you hoping to see it go for?
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  16. #16
    Forum Regular winston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    Read some of my above (^)... 'Splains it pretty well... (m.)
    swan24, no disrespect "but do really understand how eBay works?? its still the safest bidding place around,

    now do you like the "tuner" and how much are you willing to pay for it" put your maximum bid amount down and walk away, that's what really matters, you can always increase you bid at anytime (and remember only yourself and eBay will be able to see and know that)

    make sure that you pay with pay pal. that's important!!
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  17. #17
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    It looks like the one guy is using the function that lets him outbid any new bidders by 0.50, up to his set limit. Every time someone else enters a higher bid, all you see is the one guy upping his bid. Itís all automatic. Thatís why it looks like he is bidding against himself. Looks like a decent unit. Good luck with your bids. What price are you hoping to see it go for?
    About $185.00... I would, as I said, have to just about double that figure to get the tuner in top working condition, by my best estimation, including things like new caps, tubes, alignment, etc.

  18. #18
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    Read some of my above (^)... 'Splains it pretty well... (m.)
    Actually, I know what yer sayin'...and from the perspective of the buyer I've used just that reaction when I've been particularly enamored with a product...kinda like betting high on two pair...throwin' down just enough at the onset of the auction to frustrate/ward off potential competition.

    Does make it tough for bargain hunters though...
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  19. #19
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by winston
    swan24, no disrespect "but do really understand how eBay works?? its still the safest bidding place around,

    now do you like the "tuner" and how much are you willing to pay for it" put your maximum bid amount down and walk away, that's what really matters, you can always increase you bid at anytime (and remember only yourself and eBay will be able to see and know that)

    make sure that you pay with pay pal. that's important!!
    Putting your max bid down early doesn't strike me as being a very effective way of getting an item at a good price, IMHO... Esp. with people who do not do their homework on the item, and would just bid it up... The best way is to lay back, and bid your max within the last ten seconds or so... The last three if you think any of the other bidders is using a sniping program... I've manually outbid sniping programs before, but it takes a steady hand...

    As far as understanding how eBay works, I'm pretty savvy... That's why I started this thread...

    I guess the way I originally put it mislead people into thinking that I either wanted it real cheap, or that I didn't know what I was talking about... I was merely lamenting the fact that newbies on eBay are driving up prices on tube gear beyond what I feel is a fair price... The venue is turning into a place where you can no longer get a good deal, which, in my opinion, is what the whole exercise was about at the onset... (m.)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    Putting your max bid down early doesn't strike me as being a very effective way of getting an item at a good price, IMHO... Esp. with people who do not do their homework on the item, and would just bid it up... The best way is to lay back, and bid your max within the last ten seconds or so... The last three if you think any of the other bidders is using a sniping program... I've manually outbid sniping programs before, but it takes a steady hand...

    As far as understanding how eBay works, I'm pretty savvy... That's why I started this thread...

    I guess the way I originally put it mislead people into thinking that I either wanted it real cheap, or that I didn't know what I was talking about... I was merely lamenting the fact that newbies on eBay are driving up prices on tube gear beyond what I feel is a fair price... The venue is turning into a place where you can no longer get a good deal, which, in my opinion, is what the whole exercise was about at the onset... (m.)
    Sorry but I am still lost here. If you expect that the unit will sell at or near $185 when it's all said and done, why do you care that early bids are at $20? What is the difference if it's at $20 now or hours before it goes upwards to $185?

    When I bid on something, I don't even bother bidding til the last day as long as the price is still within range. I just can't get my head wrapped around how an early bid of $20 is skewing anything out of proportion or driving the price too high when you expect it to go up to $185.

    Are you saying that these early bids of next to nothing are going to make the last bid way over $185, like maybe $205.50?

  21. #21
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Sorry but I am still lost here. If you expect that the unit will sell at or near $185 when it's all said and done, why do you care that early bids are at $20? What is the difference if it's at $20 now or hours before it goes upwards to $185?

    When I bid on something, I don't even bother bidding til the last day as long as the price is still within range. I just can't get my head wrapped around how an early bid of $20 is skewing anything out of proportion or driving the price too high when you expect it to go up to $185.

    Are you saying that these early bids of next to nothing are going to make the last bid way over $185, like maybe $205.50?

    I think I created the false impression that the early bids torqued me off, when I should have said that I was anticipating eBay newbies without any bidding experience to bid the item up in a very unproductive way... That is, unproductive for the buyer, not the seller...

    That is what happened a few days ago when I was looking at a Dyna FM 3 tuner from the same seller that went sky-high because of noobs bidding very unproductively just for the sake of bidding... It was like, " let me see how many times I can hit this button..."

    The way I bid is to watch the item, and lay back until the last few seconds... If it goes up too high, then I forget it... If it's within reason, I wait until +3 seconds or so, then hit the final bid button... Before I get to this point, I clear my computer, restart it, reset my modem, etc., so nothing hangs up when I bid...

    I think where I was really going here is that the noobs bidding is an antithesis to savvy bidding, and it makes it hard to get items for a fair price, not necessarily a steal... (m.)
    Last edited by swan24; 02-28-2011 at 10:42 AM.

  22. #22
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    I think I created the false impression that the early bids torqued me off, when I should have said that I was anticipating eBay newbies without any bidding experience to bid the item up in a very unproductive way... That is, unproductive for the buyer, not the seller...

    That is what happened a few days ago when I was looking at a Dyna FM 3 tuner from the same seller that went sky-high because of noobs bidding very unproductively just for the sake of bidding... It was like, " let me see how many times I can hit this button..."

    The way I bid is to watch the item, and lay back until the last few seconds... If it goes up too high, then I forget it... If it's within reason, I wait until +3 seconds or so, then hit the final bid button... Before I get to this point, I clear my computer, restart it, reset my modem, etc., so nothing hangs up when I bid...

    I think where I was really going here is that the noobs bidding is an antithesis to savvy bidding, and it makes it hard to get items for a fair price, not necessarily a steal... (m.)
    Are you familiar with "bid sniping"? I use this all the time. It permits you to enter the maximum you are willing to pay without the bid showing on eBay. Also, you can cancel or change your bid if you wish.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Are you familiar with "bid sniping"? I use this all the time. It permits you to enter the maximum you are willing to pay without the bid showing on eBay. Also, you can cancel or change your bid if you wish.

    Yes, familiar with this... It still shows your hand when inexperienced bidders try to see just where the max is, and go button crazy... Much better, IMHO, to lay back and wait...

    But then someone invariably always goes trigger happy... I wish there was a way to contact these guys and say, " Hey... what the h**l are you doing?!..."

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan24
    ... I was merely lamenting the fact that newbies on eBay are driving up prices on tube gear beyond what I feel is a fair price... (m.)
    Ah, the crux of the issue. As far as I'm aware, people are allowed to spend their money the way they want.

    Maybe the bidder puts more value on this tuner than you do.

    Maybe they want it to complete a matched system.

    Happens in real estate and vintage autos all the time. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

  25. #25
    Forum Regular swan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    Ah, the crux of the issue. As far as I'm aware, people are allowed to spend their money the way they want.

    Maybe the bidder puts more value on this tuner than you do.

    Maybe they want it to complete a matched system.

    Happens in real estate and vintage autos all the time. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

    Certainly so... But I doubt the fellows who set those early bids know what they're doing... They're working against themselves, and others who want to bid... Of course, this is all to the advantage of the seller, who I'm sure is slathering over the whole thing... But the downside for him is that a lot of sales to newbies go belly-up, and is why a lot of sellers notify bidders that if they have a feedback of less than 5 or so, they must contact seller... (m.)

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