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  1. #151
    stuck on vintage dingus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
    Yeah, true...we need a site by the people for the people. I mean, we are the ones who are the heart and soul of this hobby and we deserve a site that enables us to discuss our passion with others, spread good information around, and be able to build a stronger community of people with similar interests and expand the horizons of those searching for information as well.
    yer preachin' to the choir brother!
    AR MGC-1, AR C225 PS, M&K V-1B, Pioneer VSX 47TX, Oppo BDP-83, Squeezebox v3, Vortexbox Appliance.

  2. #152
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dingus
    yer preachin' to the choir brother!
    After seeing what you said to look at in your PM, I guess I am, I had no idea!

  3. #153
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    Let's go crash the party at dingus's discussion forum!

  4. #154
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    We could have Spanky design it for us.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  5. #155
    JSE
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    Migration!

    So we the "addict" forum posters account for 4% of the visits? If that's true, no wonder they could care less about the forums. "We" don't make them a dime since we don't click on ads like the "passers by" and regulars. Also, looks like only abotu 12% visit the forums.

    The bottom line is this is a revenue genarating business through visits and ads. That's the priority, not forums. Other sites seem to be more forum oriented and that seems to be where most people go. The AR forums are an afterthought. Whoever's in charge wants to make money through ads and reviews, not create a community. That seems to be the business model and that's his/her/their choice.

    Maybe "we" should look into another alternative site? Maybe "we" can research it, find a good new home and migrate? A mass migration! Start a thread here telling everyone where to go, and go!

    For me, Audioholics would probably be my first choice since I used to post there quite a bit but I would be open to any site. The main reason I mention Audioholics is there are a lot of old AR members there now and their forum format seems to be similiar in terms of the categories they have.

    What has AR done for us? Nothing, except provide a forum. "We" make this place what it is, not AR. If most of the regulars here leave and go to the same new place, what's the difference? Oh, more members, less rules, better discussions, new friends, old friends, new start, "puttin" it to AR, just better overall IMO.

    Anyway, something to think about.

    JSE

  6. #156
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    Start a thread here telling everyone where to go.

    JSE
    I've already been told where to go. But I'm waiting for them to go first.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    So we the "addict" forum posters account for 4% of the visits? If that's true, no wonder they could care less about the forums. "We" don't make them a dime since we don't click on ads like the "passers by" and regulars. Also, looks like only abotu 12% visit the forums.

    The bottom line is this is a revenue genarating business through visits and ads. That's the priority, not forums. Other sites seem to be more forum oriented and that seems to be where most people go. The AR forums are an afterthought. Whoever's in charge wants to make money through ads and reviews, not create a community. That seems to be the business model and that's his/her/their choice.
    Hence my statement ""4. To me, it is not even clear that they want people to post in the forums.""
    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    For me, Audioholics would probably be my first choice since I used to post there quite a bit but I would be open to any site. The main reason I mention Audioholics is there are a lot of old AR members there now and their forum format seems to be similiar in terms of the categories they have.
    The site's not very active either, and I believe the owner also does not consider the forums to be of importance. Essentially, the forums were started to garner interest, but they also strive for ad income and not community.

    The owner threatened to ban me for presenting a clear and concise biwire analysis showing clear differences between bi and monowire. First, he brought in hired guns Putzy, Elliot, and Leseuf, and when I detailed their error in understanding mathematically and with physics, the owner got really nasty. And I mean nasty, in private e-mails. So AH is certainly not my next choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    What has AR done for us? Nothing, except provide a forum. "We" make this place what it is, not AR.
    Yup and yup. If members as a group can convince the moderators to make it an easier place to chat, will they listen?


    Cheers, John

  8. #158
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    I can't agree with this

    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    So we the "addict" forum posters account for 4% of the visits? If that's true, no wonder they could care less about the forums. "We" don't make them a dime since we don't click on ads like the "passers by" and regulars. Also, looks like only abotu 12% visit the forums.

    The bottom line is this is a revenue genarating business through visits and ads. That's the priority, not forums. Other sites seem to be more forum oriented and that seems to be where most people go. The AR forums are an afterthought. Whoever's in charge wants to make money through ads and reviews, not create a community. That seems to be the business model and that's his/her/their choice.

    Maybe "we" should look into another alternative site? Maybe "we" can research it, find a good new home and migrate? A mass migration! Start a thread here telling everyone where to go, and go!

    For me, Audioholics would probably be my first choice since I used to post there quite a bit but I would be open to any site. The main reason I mention Audioholics is there are a lot of old AR members there now and their forum format seems to be similiar in terms of the categories they have.

    What has AR done for us? Nothing, except provide a forum. "We" make this place what it is, not AR. If most of the regulars here leave and go to the same new place, what's the difference? Oh, more members, less rules, better discussions, new friends, old friends, new start, "puttin" it to AR, just better overall IMO.

    Anyway, something to think about.

    JSE
    Other sites have their problems too, but more importantly, you implied yourself that this is the nature of this business - it's a business. Other sites, even if they are not already a business, will become more so over time. It's about ad revenue and sooner or later, that will be the norm elsewhere too.

    I'm not for giving up. I think that if we can find a way to exert the right kind of pressure on the moderators, that we can make a difference here. We need to make a stand, the question is how.

  9. #159
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Alrighty then.....

    I've been monitoring this thread since getting P.Skies invitation. I'm old school here. I date back before the change over and lost about 800 posts or so in the transition. I've also lost some reviews. To be honest I've absolutely no deisre to return to the days of Tube vs. Solid State, Analog vs. Digital, Planar uber alles, nOrh vs. Swan Divas or the merits of Consumer Reports vs. Double Blind tests. etc... I've seen/read/lived through all that crap and have no desire repeat history.

    Yeah, it'd be nice to have more folks contribute, but I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week. After building and installing about 19 HT's for family and friends over the years I've little patience for holding another breathless noobs hand through the learning/buying process. God Bless those of you that do have the patience to do it but I dont. But be that as it may I'll help when and where I can.

    As for what's wrong with this place, everybody's got an opinion and you know what they say about opinons and a-holes. There've been some great suggestion in the last 7 pages of posts. But the following things need to be asked first:

    1. What do we as a communitry or individuals WANT from this site?

    Me personally, I just come here to kibits cause I love da folks here. JSE, Kam, Kex, Wooch, Forever Autumn, Smokey and many others are like family to me. I'm personally getting what I want whenever Kam and F.A. go on a "Lost" Bender or Smokey come up with some ridiculous Top 10. I have no big hankering to change the place. However, if these folks were to migrate somewhere's else I'd probably follow them.

    2. What do the site aministrators want from this site?

    Money from advertising revenue is a fair answer I suppose.

    3. Would we find what "we want" anywhere else?

    I don't know we might. But I'd have to be sure I'm gonna get better than I get here.

    4. Would you pay money say $20 a year to improve this site? Cut down on the crappy advertising hire some real "Staff" and get some proper bandwidth?

    I would, ya gets what ya pay for.

    These are the things that crossed my mind about this place. Yeah it's not as hectic as it once was or frenetic either, but it's a lot more civil (for the most part) and I don't mind having this place as my once quiet little backwater of the net.

    Da Worfster

  10. #160
    stuck on vintage dingus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    .... After building and installing about 19 HT's for family and friends over the years I've little patience for holding another breathless noobs hand through the learning/buying process. God Bless those of you that do have the patience to do it but I dont. But be that as it may I'll help when and where I can.


    .... Would you pay money say $20 a year to improve this site? Cut down on the crappy advertising hire some real "Staff" and get some proper bandwidth?

    I would, ya gets what ya pay for.
    why not do an HT 101 thread. it could be a one time post if you wanted, let others make additions and keep it updated with current offerings. newbies would simply be pointed to the thread, end of handholding.

    i wouldnt pay $0.01 towards the maintenance of any site. its the members that make the site, providing 100% of the content, why should they then pay for the privilege? sites that utilize ads for funding are much preferred, over those that "pass the hat", in my book.
    AR MGC-1, AR C225 PS, M&K V-1B, Pioneer VSX 47TX, Oppo BDP-83, Squeezebox v3, Vortexbox Appliance.

  11. #161
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    I'm personally getting what I want whenever Kam and F.A. go on a "Lost" Bender or Smokey come up with some ridiculous Top 10.
    Was that a compliment or sarcasm

    Thanks for kind words, and also as an old member I may put in my bit too.

    AR always has been notorious for free-for-all audio forum without too much supervision or moderation. It was true back in 2001 when I join, and it seem to be true today. Not like other audio forum that run a tight ship (Audiokarma or Audioasylum come to mind), in AR you are pretty much on your own.

  12. #162
    Forum Regular Blue Meanie's Avatar
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    Haven't been there in years, but when did Audioasylum turn into a 'tight ship'? That place was a zoo, years ago.

    Jeff
    PIONEER: SX-780, CT-F700, HPM-100(x4), DV-C302D, PD-F1007, PL-514; DENON: AVR-983; SONY: D-15, DVP-985V, DVP-CX860(x2); TOSHIBA: XR-9459; TECHNICS: SL-1800MK2, SL-1700MK2, SL-1400MK2; NAD: PE2200; PARADIGM REFERENCE: STUDIO 100 V.2, SERVO-15, X-30; CERWIN-VEGA: DX-9; REALISTIC: MACH 2; RCA: 42" LCD HDTV

  13. #163
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    That depends

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Meanie
    Haven't been there in years, but when did Audioasylum turn into a 'tight ship'? That place was a zoo, years ago.

    Jeff
    Some of the blessed can say anythng they want with impunity.

  14. #164
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    Some of the blessed can say anything they want with impunity.
    Of course. It is called executive privilage
    Last edited by Smokey; 09-15-2007 at 07:21 PM.

  15. #165
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    so now what.....

  16. #166
    Forum Regular Corto Maltese's Avatar
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    I am a newbee, and active community on this site did attract me, because I found some of the reviews and threads / comments bordering with professional work, packed in nice language. I am sick and tired of miserable (or overly happy) people. Being in music for a very long time, I got a lot of negative things, and I don’t need more of that punishment. Info is possible to find elsewhere, some of the other sites are more active, but so far it looks like AR is not playground for idiots.
    I will try to join in as many threads as possible – if I can really make a contribution to the discussion.

  17. #167
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    Welcome Corto. Enjoy your stay.

    Hey, GM, he thinks this forum is NOT a playground for idiots.

  18. #168
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Welcome Corto. Enjoy your stay.

    Hey, GM, he thinks this forum is NOT a playground for idiots.
    Well, except for you, me and a few others, he's right. I've been to other sites where more than half the requlars don't know crap about real sound. If I have any questions, I always post them here because the people here know so much more than I do. On other sites, I find myself being the one answering the questions.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  19. #169
    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    I've been monitoring this thread since getting P.Skies invitation. I'm old school here. I date back before the change over and lost about 800 posts or so in the transition. I've also lost some reviews. To be honest I've absolutely no deisre to return to the days of Tube vs. Solid State, Analog vs. Digital, Planar uber alles, nOrh vs. Swan Divas or the merits of Consumer Reports vs. Double Blind tests. etc... I've seen/read/lived through all that crap and have no desire repeat history.
    i remember the old board and the transition over to the new board and all the discussions that fostered (and arguments). wasn't it beige? i think some really dull beige color if i remember correctly. would be great to see a screen cap if anyone (site managers?) are reading this and have it archived somewhere. oh man, i do not miss all the norh threads, wow that was beating a dead horse. i do miss woodman though.

    but i agree with worfster, quality over quantity for us, but i understand the people who run this want quantity as well. i guess just keep posting quality
    /create

  20. #170
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    I read a post from Wooch indicating how it's hard to keep up with a question you may ask on the AVS forums due to the amount of traffic, and jvc indicated that apparently flame wars and personal attacks are abundant there but does that mean a sense of community doesn't exist there as well?

    I can get info there that relates specifically to my remote, or my exact brand of TV...etc. There are 13 forums there with a total of 73 sub forums. Is that overkill?

  21. #171
    Forum Regular Corto Maltese's Avatar
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    Overkill?
    btw, thanks for welcome.
    I posted only one question on 6 forums (1 here just few days ago, "Living room compromise”). No info on Tannoy C-10. And one can see – at AR, only nice comments. Somewhere else, in 2-3 days (no time to see, too much work) I would get about 50 posts and after reading random, say, 7, I would give up on all others.
    Those 7 would be bashingthenewguy, urstupidmesmrt, and other alike, telling me the dominant profile.
    Canuck Audio Mart (http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/) is not that bad.

    Please, just keep posting quality. News, pics, all. If I get something interesting from Canada, I’ll share it with you. Like this one below. It is for this system (110V), but it is a great simplified info for novice anywhere in the world. Few years ago (I was still part of the automotive industry) I tried to explain ground loop to exec - we had some problems in the lab. Wish I had this. Now I drive long haul truck for living. It is easier, and more money. A lot more, for the work.

    http://www.aes.org/sections/pnw/pnwr...lock_pnw05.pdf

  22. #172
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    You get trolls everywhere you go. We have one here. You'll know him by the red dot under his username.

  23. #173
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    You get trolls everywhere you go. We have one here. You'll know him by the red dot under his username.
    You know that brings up something interesting....

    I notice that if you don't check around on here once or twice a day you can easily lose track of certain threads, so if the traffic was 10x what it is...there would be 1. more trolls and 2. more posts, which may not necessarily be a good thing.

    I think that we have a good concentration in our threads of useful, helpful information, which means that (unlike other sites) this one is quite good when it comes to getting your question answered without too much garbage in there, with the exception of a few people around here, most of the time we are very positive and try to be as helpful as possible.

  24. #174
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
    with the exception of a few people around here, most of the time we are very positive and try to be as helpful as possible.
    Can I be one of the exceptions? Please? Huh? Can I?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Can I be one of the exceptions? Please? Huh? Can I?
    If the shoe fits...

    I've been spending some time lurking on the AVS forum, and you're not kidding! The traffic over there is 100x what it is here, and some threads are a mile long! The bad thing about that is, some of the still-active topics were started years ago with most of the information being, in some topics way out-of-date. There are topics about something that I have a question about that would probably be answered, but reading through, in some threads 50 pages of responses is out of the question.

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