Mutiny on the AR Board

[JSE]

Two things have kiiled these forums.

1. Over moderation. During the great "purge" a few years back I had mixed feelings about the stronger moderation. On one hand, some people needed to go and on the other, they were the "spice" that kept things interesting and lively. I think it went way to far. Good people with big personalities left and it has killed the forums. I like 99% of the people here I post with. There are a few wackos, a few a-holes, a few funny guys, a few technical guys, a few people who know more about audio video than the rest of us combined. But, there is very little "spice". Which leads me to number 2.

2. Everyone here gets along for the most part. This is a great things in some regards but it's also BOOORRRRIIIINNNG! Back in the site's hey day (sp?), I loved going head to head and sometimes arguing with people about cables, movies, politics, etc. I was probably as big of an A-hole as anyone else. Well maybe not as big as some. I just don't feel like pushing people's buttons here at this time. One reason is I like you guys, and gals (FA), and the other is I would probably get the boot. The resident "do-gooders" (and you know who you are) would report me in 2 seconds. The Steel Cage is way to obvious and just is not the same as a good old slug-fest out in the open. I miss those days. For the most part, we all had some pretty down and dirty arguments but after the dust cleared, we still respcted each other and got along the rest of the time. Sir T and I got into some pretty heated debates/arguments about some pretty serious stuff but I think we both respected each other and were friends here at AR. The new "management" just thought the "back and forth" was bad for the site and put an end to it for the most part. For that, they are dumbasses and have run this site into the ground. The more I write about this the more irked I get so I will end my rant. I have been trying to come around this place when possible but the bottom line is this place is dead and there are only a few members left here that keep me coming back. Yes G'Man, your one of them.

Anyway, if anyone disagrees, SCREW YOU!

JSeeeeeeeee!

[JSE]

Oh yeah,

PS, I commend your idea and your dedication to this site but in reality there is simply nothing we as forum members can really do to increase traffic. Management is either happy with the site the way it is, or they don't give a rat's ass. I'm not trying to be a downer, I'm merely pointed out the truth. Of course, if there is some type of an effort in the futrue, I will gladly do what I can.

[PeruvianSkies]

Two things have kiiled these forums.

1. Over moderation. During the great "purge" a few years back I had mixed feelings about the stronger moderation. On one hand, some people needed to go and on the other, they were the "spice" that kept things interesting and lively. I think it went way to far. Good people with big personalities left and it has killed the forums. I like 99% of the people here I post with. There are a few wackos, a few a-holes, a few funny guys, a few technical guys, a few people who know more about audio video that the rest of us combined. But, there is very little "spice". Which leads me to number 2.

2. Everyone here gets along for the most part. This is a great things in some regards but it's also BOOORRRRIIIINNNG! Back in the site's hey day (sp?), I loved going head to head and sometimes arguing with people about cables, movies, politics, etc. I was probably as big of an A-hole as anyone else. Well maybe not as big as some. I just don't feel like pushing people's buttons here at this time. One reason is I like you guys, and gals (FA), and the other is I would probably get the boot. The resident "do-gooders" (as you know who you are) would report me in 2 seconds. The Steel Cage is way to obvious and just is not the same as a good old slug-fest out in the open. I miss those days. For the most part, we all had some pretty down and dirty arguments but after the dust cleared, we still respcted each other and got along the rest of the time. Sir T and I got into some pretty heated debates/arguments about some pretty serious stuff but I think we both respected each other and were friends here at AR. The new "management" just thought the "back and forth" was bad for the site and put an end to it for the most part. For that, they are dumbasses and have run this site into the ground. The more I write about this the more irked I get so I will end my rant. I have been trying to come around this place when possible but the bottom line is this place is dead and there are only a few members left here that keep me coming back. Yes G'Man, your one of them.

Anyway, if anyone disagrees, SCREW YOU!

JSeeeeeeeee!

I can definitely see where you are coming from, especially since I try to 'spice' it up here and there as well and I am not afraid to let my personality shine through regardless of what anyone thinks of it. If someone asks for my opinion I will give it, but often times when I have tried to get things going around here it usually backfires or just goes nowhere. I don't mind getting along with everyone, but I also think that debates and such are also beneficial as well, especially when both sides are presenting good arguments and not just bashing each other around. Maybe everyones tired of debating...I get tired of going back and forth about cables and such, so maybe everyone else is too. I just don't know.

[JSE]

Maybe everyones tired of debating...I get tired of going back and forth about cables and such, so maybe everyone else is too. I just don't know.

I don't think people were tired of debating issues, I just think given the strict constraints that management forced on us a few years back, people just went to other boards to debate. Boards where it's still allowed. Hell, just off the top of my head, I can think of about 10 to 15 of this site's past regular contributors that are now over at Audioholics.

[GMichael]

I don't think people were tired of debating issues, I just think given the strict constraints that management forced on us a few years back, people just went to other boards to debate. Boards where it's still allowed. Hell, just off the top of my head, I can think of about 10 to 15 of this site's past regular contributors that are now over at Audioholics.

Very true. I think that they had a good idea here that just went too far. The fights were the spice that kept people coming back. I used to enjoy reading threads where Flo and RGA were going at it. Most of what they said went over my head, but I learned a lot from those fights. Both of them have so much knowledge about this hobby that I may never know. Their points of view never seemed to match, but it was great reading.
The old Lex threads were great too. As much as he would melt down, he still had a lot to add to this forum. I don't blame AR for sending him off. He brought it on himself. But I still miss him and his long a$$ reveiws. And WHO else knows HOW to CAPITALIZE the WAY he did?

[Mr Peabody]

It depends on what the purpose of the forums are supposed to be. If the forums are to help others learn, I don't see how the arguments were productive. But, on the other hand, we can help all we want but it is really up to the poster to try or listen for themselves to determine whose opinion was in sync with what they found. I would imagine the purpose of the forums are to really attract people in to see all the advertisements, so you'd think the owners would be having this conversation instead of the participants.

I think it was Flo I was mixing it up with when I received my first warning. I'm not sure what I did to cross the line but it seemed like I had been in hotter conflicts with Sir T or Skeptic.

I have learned from the arguments. I remember having an argument about 5.1 speaker placement. The person pointed me to the Dolby website and although all the installers I saw did it one way, Dolby illustrated another. So there is the potential of productivity as long as people give references or experiences and keep the jabs above the belt.

Oh, and JSE, skru U

[JSE]

Oh, and JSE, skru U

That's what I'm talking about!

Felt good huh?

[PeruvianSkies]

So what is the purpose of this site ???

[PeruvianSkies]

Inspired from our discussion here:

[PeruvianSkies]

GM, where are you? You are the star of this show!

[GMichael]

GM, where are you? You are the star of this show!

Dude, it's Sunday.
I have today off...............

Nice pic. I like how my old avitar is flying around behind the ship.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Dude, it's Sunday.
I have today off...............

Nice pic. I like how my old avitar is flying around behind the ship.

I think they're throwing you overboard GM...

[GMichael]

I think they're throwing you overboard GM...

Didn't you know that Chity Chity Bang Bang was mt great aunt?

[Luvin Da Blues]

Didn't you know that Chity Chity Bang Bang was mt great aunt?

And Herbie the Love Bug is your long lost bro?

[GMichael]

And Herbie the Love Bug is your long lost bro?

Cousin.

[PeruvianSkies]

Well, this thread generated a bit of responses, but it would seem that without knowing who to take these concerns to or what the process is for changing things that our mutiny will not help matters. If the top 20% of us posters were to suddenly stop coming here, what would happen? The top 20% of us probably make up about 90% of the posts anyway, so that means the site would be even more stagnant than it already is, but would anyone really care? Would new 'regulars' emerge with the void? Who knows, and most of all ...does anyone care at this point? Our community is struggling and there doesn't seem to be anyone running this place to bring our concerns to.

[Mr Peabody]

So who do the moderators answer to? None of them know who is the wizard of AR? Did Eric appoint all of them?

[musicoverall]

Two things have kiiled these forums.

1. Over moderation. During the great "purge" a few years back I had mixed feelings about the stronger moderation. On one hand, some people needed to go and on the other, they were the "spice" that kept things interesting and lively. I think it went way to far. Good people with big personalities left and it has killed the forums. I like 99% of the people here I post with. There are a few wackos, a few a-holes, a few funny guys, a few technical guys, a few people who know more about audio video than the rest of us combined. But, there is very little "spice". Which leads me to number 2.

2. Everyone here gets along for the most part. This is a great things in some regards but it's also BOOORRRRIIIINNNG! Back in the site's hey day (sp?), I loved going head to head and sometimes arguing with people about cables, movies, politics, etc. I was probably as big of an A-hole as anyone else. Well maybe not as big as some. I just don't feel like pushing people's buttons here at this time. One reason is I like you guys, and gals (FA), and the other is I would probably get the boot. The resident "do-gooders" (and you know who you are) would report me in 2 seconds. The Steel Cage is way to obvious and just is not the same as a good old slug-fest out in the open. I miss those days. For the most part, we all had some pretty down and dirty arguments but after the dust cleared, we still respcted each other and got along the rest of the time. Sir T and I got into some pretty heated debates/arguments about some pretty serious stuff but I think we both respected each other and were friends here at AR. The new "management" just thought the "back and forth" was bad for the site and put an end to it for the most part. For that, they are dumbasses and have run this site into the ground. The more I write about this the more irked I get so I will end my rant. I have been trying to come around this place when possible but the bottom line is this place is dead and there are only a few members left here that keep me coming back. Yes G'Man, your one of them.

Anyway, if anyone disagrees, SCREW YOU!

JSeeeeeeeee!

This is precisely why I don't come here much anymore. It wasn't just the physical act of arguing and debating - it was the learning that came with it... or if not the learning, at least the research that helped build my own case. Sir T and I agreed on a lot of things but I found that the things we didn't agree on... well... he was right most of the time. But even if he had been wrong, his comments forced me to review my own position. And he was a gentleman as long as the person he was debating with was.

The problem was the folks who took their position too personally. Many who do that do so because it's NOT just audio to them. They are scientists, engineers... and this stuff is their life, at least theoretically. Telling an engineer that different cables make systems sound different is an insult to them. Of course, I can't stop telling them that because cables DO make a difference. But I understand their unwillingness to test and why they get their back up. They feel that a cable person is telling them their lifetime of studying was a waste. I'm actually telling them to take it a step further, but that's a story for another time.

The fact is that even many of the a-holes had something to say on this board. If they could have said it with less vitriol and insultation, this board would be more interesting. Therein lies the conundrum. I absolutely understand the Board's decision to make the place more friendly. If we were all together in person, I would totally agree. We'd share beers and audio stories and music and it would be a friendly place to be. But I think audio itself moves forward when it encounters resistance... a belief foreign to the norm. I don't see that here much anymore.

I wish I could come up with an answer.

[jvc]

Ok, I've GOT to say something here.

I think the biggest problem with this site is PeruvianSkies!
Some of you may remember, when I first joined, I tried to post regularly. But, once I mentioned I liked Steven Seagal movies, PS immediately jumped in with both feet, and started insulting and condemning me. Naturally, that caused me to insult back. We went back and forth a little, until I finally said "to hell with this!" If this is how new people to this site get treated, just because of some movies they like, I don't want any part of it! Others made insulting remarks too, but it was mostly PS. And you wonder why people don't sign up?

There was another time, when he was jumping on someone else. I got in and said a couple of things, in the other person's behalf. I probably haven't posted more than 3-4 times, in many months. It's not worth it, not knowing if you're going to get into a knock down, drag out fight with someone. Of course, the lurkers see this happening, and think WTF! I'm not joining this place! It's as bad, or worse than AVS here!

The idea about winning prizes is good. I think prizes are donated to most sites that offer them. It's an advertising write-off, for the companies that donate them. Write some letters to some companies, requesting donations for prizes. Invite them to come to the site (and hope they don't see the flame wars). If they see the flaming, you can probably forget about any donations.

If you want to attract more members, teach PS (and a couple others) some basic manners and internet etiquette. Honey attracts more flies than vinegar does!

[GMichael]

Ok, I've GOT to say something here.

I think the biggest problem with this site is PeruvianSkies!
Some of you may remember, when I first joined, I tried to post regularly. But, once I mentioned I liked Steven Seagal movies, PS immediately jumped in with both feet, and started insulting and condemning me. Naturally, that caused me to insult back. We went back and forth a little, until I finally said "to hell with this!" If this is how new people to this site get treated, just because of some movies they like, I don't want any part of it! Others made insulting remarks too, but it was mostly PS. And you wonder why people don't sign up?

There was another time, when he was jumping on someone else. I got in and said a couple of things, in the other person's behalf. I probably haven't posted more than 3-4 times, in many months. It's not worth it, not knowing if you're going to get into a knock down, drag out fight with someone. Of course, the lurkers see this happening, and think WTF! I'm not joining this place! It's as bad, or worse than AVS here!

The idea about winning prizes is good. I think prizes are donated to most sites that offer them. It's an advertising write-off, for the companies that donate them. Write some letters to some companies, requesting donations for prizes. Invite them to come to the site (and hope they don't see the flame wars). If they see the flaming, you can probably forget about any donations.

If you want to attract more members, teach PS (and a couple others) some basic manners and internet etiquette. Honey attracts more flies than vinegar does!

Some valid points mixed in here. There are some areas where the veterans and EE's should be allowed to fight all they want about different sides of technical issues. But when a new member pops in about a film, receiver options, or even a Bose system, we should treat them a little nicer. Let them feel like part of the family. Then we can fight with them later.
Oh, but I don't like Steven Seagal either. And anyone who does is a mindless..... Oops, sorry. Lost my head. Stick around a while. We'll talk more later.
Joke.....
JOKE.....

[markw]

So what is the purpose of this site ???

this site is a marketing tool that exists to generate as many hits to sell advertising to their advertisers as possible. Since this site pops up at the top when people do searches on this subject on the web, it's highly successful as it is.

As for the participants here, they are just icing on the cake that help draw people to this site and, since they get mucho hits already, why should the owners bother to rock the boat? It's not so much the participants that matter but more so the lurkers who are drawn to this site's advertisers.

If anyone thought there were higher, more altruistic reasons for this sites existence, welcome to marketing 101. I've got a bridge to sell ya.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Capitalist pig!!!

(kidding)

[GMichael]

Is it a wooden bridge, or one of those new fangled metal type bridges? I like metal. I can stick magnets to it. I'm tired of sticking them to the metal plates in my head.

[musicoverall]

I had a similar disagreement way back with poster Woodman regarding power cords. He said resolutely there could be no possible way different cords could influence the sound. While he had been a TV technician for fifty? years, he had zero exposure to the systems I was referring. When I pointed out the RF filtering aspects, he responded that such cords were no longer power cords. Right.

I think It is important to know what you don't know. I value direct exposure and experience over speculation, however well reasoned it may seem.

rw

It's true that there is little (in audio - and not much more in the rest of the world!) that means much until it's experienced. Nothing makes a difference until you try it!

[musicoverall]

It seems to me that when people ask questions about equipment, then technical and audibility considerations are relevant. However, the rules appear to favor relegating them to The Audio Lab, which means those asking the questions on other forums can't get an adequate answer. .

I don't disagree with your first statement - in fact I agree totally. But the issue was not with getting adequate answers... the issue was that once those adequate answers were given, it's not ok to fire the personal attacks because the questioner preferred one explanation over another. Neither side could stand being second guessed and things quickly turned pissy. It wasn't good enough to give someone the facts as the opposing sides saw them. So one could reasonably conclude that it was the posters and not the rules that were the problem. The rules were a response... successful one the one hand and unsuccessful in that they discouraged intelligent exchange - that one had to dig for amidst the name calling but that were there if one had skin thick enough to survive.