Mutiny on the AR Board

[royphil345]

I don't know...

I've always liked this site a little better than most audio sites because the people, for the most part anyway, seem to be a little more level-headed and open minded... Intelligent people who can think for themselves... Speak based on experience... not what they read on the internet yesterday... One site in particular makes me nuts because once an idea becomes accepted as being the "concensus"... (of a bunch of 13-year olds no doubt) no matter how completely wrong it is... You can't say anything that doesn't completely agree without being attacked en masse by everyone. So... A busy board overpopulated by a pack of wild dogs isn't always a good thing....

I think one of the biggest problems is that there are a few other sources for user reviews now. That was always the backbone of Audio REVIEW. and... as much as I hate to say it... their pages load quicker and the reviews are easier to search for, find and navigate.

I think people are finding consumer reviews a little less helpful too. People know now that a person will always be excited about a new purchase and it takes time to find the faults in things... User reviews are great though for spotting products likely to arrive defective, etc...

Branching out in a new direction may help... Offering some guides, etc...

IMHO... Getting the pages to load a little quicker would be job #1. This has DEFINITELY decreased my number of visits to the site lately.

I hope Audio Review is around a good long time. I've had a great time and learned much here over the years. Met some great people... Wish them much good luck and success!!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Well, I like most Philly sports and go to a fair number of shows there since they get lots of my favorite indie rock bands (The National, Beulah, etc.), but I live near Hershey, PA, so I resemble that comment.

G Swish

Didn't know you were that far west of West Philly Swish.

You know, that experience you had with the lightning strike and subsquent equipment replacement story you talked about in RR was, as far as I know in my short time here a unique experience and, IMO would have been a good conversation had you posted it in a more relevant forum. I realize that's just a small observation in the big scheme of things here but nevertheless it seems to me that it would've stirred more participation.

If you ask me, I'd say this is a PS power grab attempt. He wants to get his hands on that member delete switch.

[topspeed]

The indentity problem, which I agree is the main concern, can be found in the name: AudioREVIEW. Royphil hit the nail on the head, this site is based on user reviews. It would be interesting to see how many members found the forums from the review section, because my guess is the majority of you nutballs did exactly that.

The key to increasing forum traffic is to increase traffic to the review section, an area that needs to be completely revamped. If I'm looking for electronics reviews, I'll check CNET, not AR. That needs to change. There were efforts to do "professional" reviews, but that died after only a few. There were also efforts to give away prizes, but I have no idea what happened there. My opinion is that we don't need to bribe people to come here. All you need to do is give them a good reason, that being the quest for knowledge.

The AR home page needs a complete makeover. It needs to be more graphic, offer more pics, easier accessibility to ratings, and most importantly more comparisons. When someone is shopping for an AVR, they want to know about a particular unit and how it compares to others in its price class. If they want user opinions, there should be "one click" link that dumps them into the correct forum. AR is slow, not real user friendly, and as attractive as a WW2 frigate. (Who thought of grey anyway?!?)

There is a very good crew of people here, but the reality is we've lost far too many of the "characters" that made AR an entertaining place. Were there fights? Oh, yeah. Were they entertaining? Unquestionably. In an effort to quell the flames, management turned the site into a big bowl of vanilla ice cream. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you add some chocolate topping or cherries every once in a while to break up the mundanity. I'm not saying it should be the pissing match it was before (Mtrycrafts was particularly infuriating), but once the revamped homepage and reviews sections starts feeding new life into the forums, how 'bout we loosen the reigns and take a "wait and see" approach?

Like most, I still consider AR as my "audio home" of sorts. I'll be the first to acknowledge that I don't post nearly as much as before. Whereas before I'd stop by a few times a day, now I'll take a peek maybe once a week at best. Why? Less time is at the top of the list. Second would be a bit of waning interest. Many of my favorite places to audition gear have either gone HT or out of business all together. It's just not as easy to hear new and interesting gear as it once was and I don't believe in rendering an opinion on stuff I have no experience with.

[kexodusc]

The indentity problem, which I agree is the main concern, can be found in the name: AudioREVIEW. Royphil hit the nail on the head, this site is based on user reviews. It would be interesting to see how many members found the forums from the review section, because my guess is the majority of you nutballs did exactly that.

The key to increasing forum traffic is to increase traffic to the review section, an area that needs to be completely revamped. If I'm looking for electronics reviews, I'll check CNET, not AR. That needs to change. There were efforts to do "professional" reviews, but that died after only a few. There were also efforts to give away prizes, but I have no idea what happened there. My opinion is that we don't need to bribe people to come here. All you need to do is give them a good reason, that being the quest for knowledge.

The AR home page needs a complete makeover. It needs to be more graphic, offer more pics, easier accessibility to ratings, and most importantly more comparisons. When someone is shopping for an AVR, they want to know about a particular unit and how it compares to others in its price class. If they want user opinions, there should be "one click" link that dumps them into the correct forum. AR is slow, not real user friendly, and as attractive as a WW2 frigate. (Who thought of grey anyway?!?)

There is a very good crew of people here, but the reality is we've lost far too many of the "characters" that made AR an entertaining place. Were there fights? Oh, yeah. Were they entertaining? Unquestionably. In an effort to quell the flames, management turned the site into a big bowl of vanilla ice cream. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you add some chocolate topping or cherries every once in a while to break up the mundanity. I'm not saying it should be the pissing match it was before (Mtrycrafts was particularly infuriating), but once the revamped homepage and reviews sections starts feeding new life into the forums, how 'bout we loosen the reigns and take a "wait and see" approach?

Like most, I still consider AR as my "audio home" of sorts. I'll be the first to acknowledge that I don't post nearly as much as before. Whereas before I'd stop by a few times a day, now I'll take a peek maybe once a week at best. Why? Less time is at the top of the list. Second would be a bit of waning interest. Many of my favorite places to audition gear have either gone HT or out of business all together. It's just not as easy to hear new and interesting gear as it once was and I don't believe in rendering an opinion on stuff I have no experience with.

Yeah!

More product reviews, and comparisons. Less arguments for the sake of arguing!!!

Sad, I read my own post, and I realize, I hang out here more for the personalities than anything audio now.
Is this just going to be a ***** thread, or is there anything we can do about it?
Unless someone's got a phone number to someone in a position of authority, I'm sceptical we'll get anywhere.
Start the rally cry!!!!

WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QU--uhh-quite interested in improvement!!!

[Rich-n-Texas]

IIRC, this site is owned by a marketing group right? Good like trying to get them to change it's structure/appearance IMO.

[Rich-n-Texas]

The indentity problem, which I agree is the main concern, can be found in the name: AudioREVIEW. Royphil hit the nail on the head, this site is based on user reviews. It would be interesting to see how many members found the forums from the review section, because my guess is the majority of you nutballs did exactly that.

Nutballs huh? This coming from the guy who drives around in a broken BMW with a broken speedo.

[PeruvianSkies]

If you ask me, I'd say this is a PS power grab attempt. He wants to get his hands on that member delete switch.

Guilty as charged.....hey, wouldn't it be better to have someone at least throwing SOME switches, rather than just letting things slide and slide and slide. No offense to the Mods, but this place needs a makeover.

[Woochifer]

I think this site very well might have seen one "purge" too many to be the kind of community that some of us would like. Indeed a lot of bad apples got tossed out, but a lot of other very knowledgeable and active regulars went out the door along with them. I'll admit that some of the color on this site has faded in the last couple of years.

Count me as one of those posters who has stuck around here because I just like hanging out with a lot of the regulars. I sporadically post on the AVS Forum, but that site gets so swamped with traffic that it's impossible to maintain any semblance of a coherent conversation unless you're glued to that site for hours at a time. That place works more like a chat room than a forum, and I just don't have time for it. I'll also occasionally post on the Home Theater Shack, but that site has more industry professionals administering the discussions and seems more seriously focused on technical topics. Great site if you want solid topical discussions, but my endurance for purely technical topics has waned quite a bit lately given that I'm not really in an upgrading mode right now.

I know that the site administrators on AR have trial ballooned several different ideas to try and revamp the site. Things like posting "official" equipment and disc reviews, FAQs/how-to guides, etc. But, there's only so much you can do when 1) the majority of the regulars that would be recruited to write up the content have jobs and other commitments (and AR's pool of regulars is not very large to begin with); and 2) AR's staff is not especially large and is primarily focused on keeping the site up and running, and making sure that enough ads sell to keep the lights on and the servers churning. No one at AR is dedicated squarely on editorial content and/or community.

Even if we collectively agree on a plan to improve AR, I'm just not sure that the site has the resources to implement it. Remember that parent company ConsumerReview has already gone through one bankruptcy reorganization. And compared to other sites, AR has considerably less participation from the site administrators/owners who often set the tone for how the discussions go (for better or worse).

As it stands, this site is driven and defined by the participants (again, for better or worse). The quality of the discussions depend on participation, and if a site cannot attract new blood to take up the slack left when regular participants leave or pull back, then the community as a whole stagnates. I think that's the primary issue with this site right now. My understanding is that AR is one of the most heavily trafficked audio/home theater sites on the web, and there probably are ways of tweaking the site to better encourage participation, like for example posting actual news articles and industry news releases to spur discussions (this is how sites like Ecoustics, Audioholics, AudioRevolution, and High Def Digest direct traffic to their forums -- put the news article/synopsis on the home page, and provide a comments link).

I've stuck with this site since 2001, and while I don't plan on leaving anytime soon, I also don't see myself participating with nearly the same frequency as in years past. (Life changes have a way of reprioritizing my hobbies and how I spend my time.)

[PeruvianSkies]

This thread thus far has already received a great deal of responses and it's less than 24 hours at this point, which tells me that it's not a matter of people NOT wanting to join in with the discussion of AR so much, but rather having something worthwhile to talk about. Perhaps for some of us we are bored with the lack of depth most of these discussions entail or the repetitive nature of many of the posts, such as "Which Sub Should I Buy?" After being around this place for nearly 2 years and a member for about 1.5 years I must say that I too mostly come back for the people and to get some ideas from everyone. Plus, this is my source of news when it comes to things like Blu-ray. I also enjoy the film discussions from time to time and thanks to Smokey ...the polls.

However, I didn't 'JOIN' the site until I felt like I could benefit from the site and that was being able to post pictures of my setup. Once I did that I was hooked on the photo gallery section and actually spent quite a long time in there before I even ventured to the forum section. Then it took another few months before I began being a more regular person there, of course in the early days I had a few tiffs here and there with a few folks (like Flo) who I have since come to understand and appreciate a bit more. So this might be a good time to ask these questions....


1. What brought you to AR in the first place?
2. What made you want to stay around or contribute to AR?
3. Do you come here just to keep up with the conversations or do you primarily come here when you actually have something to talk about?
4. What would be ONE thing that you could change in order to make you want to stay here longer or contribute more often?

[Mr Peabody]

Who actually does run this board? I mean some one must receive the checks and post the advertisements. The site is extremely slow changing pages and is not user friendly. My goodness the last time I tried to post a review it took me forever. Between trying to figure out what to do and where to go, and then the length of time to go from one thing to another. Somebody gave us a fix to do on our computer, turning off ActivX which helped a lot. But newbies may not know to do that. Posting Classifieds is difficult as well. I think a strong classified area would be a good attraction but that would require some policing of scammers. I don't like the links to the AR content are so small compared to all the other print and advertising on the first page. I saved the discussion page to my favorites so I never have to go to the front page. If you want users, AR has to be user friendly.

The reviews brought me here years ago when I started upgrading. I actually have won a prize here for posting reviews. I won a DVD player and some movies. It's the people who keep me here and my love to talk about the hobby. When AR changed to the new thread structure I was going to leave. My computer skills are limited and I guess I don't take to change well. I owe a debt of gratitude to Topspeed for encouraging me to stay. So I tried the new threads and eventually got used to it. So you have him to blame for having to put up with me.

It's funny that it was mentioned AR needs a face lift when Eric just reworked it not too long ago. I wish I could find the thread where Eric started it about the new changes and there was a big bunch of members brown nosing how good it looked yatta yatta. I think this was around the same time he was saying he was looking for reviewers, so some couldn't wait to do some stroking.

It's funny our membership is down because after we lost a few members the site was a lot more pleasant to participate in. We can disagree without getting into who can hit the lowest below the belt and personal attacks. It's nice to be able to exchange ideas in a quasi orderly manner. Many here of a great sense of humor and willingness to help. I think more of the forums need to mirror the atmosphere of the Rave Recordings forum. But it's the people there who make it what it is.

We all need to bring what we learn and run across on the web back to AR to start new threads with it. News bits and new products etc. Let's not be shy. You never know what idea will generate a discussion and what will flop, just throw it against the wall to see what sticks. You never know who might be weighting for a nuclear amp.

It takes a while to get the feel for the board and how to take what people say, let's be tolerant with newer posters and give them the chance to grow.

With all the criticisms I like AR and participating in the discussions and when I'm able doing a review. Actually this is the only board I participate in. I'd like to say it's because I love you guys but.... really, do you know how long it would take me to learn a new board

[PeruvianSkies]

It sounds like we need some more ways to generate excitement into coming here, AND most importantly a way to keep people here who truly wish to contribute to the site, not just trolls. I think that this is a fairly easy site to use for the most part, especially in comparison to other sites that are just terrible with their formatting and such.

We have talented people here, I know Flo does some web work and I think Nightflier talked about programming at one point. It would be cool if we could collaborate some awesome ideas together, I think what would really be cool is a chat room for us to all talk in together instead of in this format since sometimes we are nearly chatting anyway with the rapid responses.

[nightflier]

Here's a couple more ideas that I think will improve the quality of the site:

- Add more simple to answer "short answer", "yes/no", and "1-5 ratings" questions for people writing reviews. For those of us who have limited time to write these, it would be relatively easy to just click on a few items and write a short blurb, then to have to write a full dissertation on a particular component.

- While I agree that the galleries really add a lot, here's another section that I think people would appreciate: a documentation section, with the option of posting pics. I can't tell you many times I've pulled my hair out because a particular company won't post documentation or pics on their products, especially the older stuff. PS Audio obviously comes to mind, here. And some manufacturers like Onkyo, actually expect people to pay for older gear documentation! Now I know there are sites out there that sell manuals, but I wouldn't mind seeing a scanned brochure, promotional ad, a PDF file or even a pic of the back side of some of that older gear. For those of us in the market for second-hand components, this would be an invaluable resource, especially if it was linked to the reviews.

- Some people have mentioned graphics as a way to jazz things up, well from a programming perspective, I can think of one way to make this more interesting: make them dynamic. For example, instead of listing a poster's location with text, show a little map of the world with a pin of where they're posting from. Instead of just listing the number of posts, how about a tiny bar graph comparing this poster's total with 2-3 regulars. I also think the member information pages could be more dynamic: for example including a little thermometer graphic showing how many posts this member posted that day, and how that compares to other "hot" days. How about a graphical word count? After all, it's easy to boost one's numbers with one-line posts, but there's also something to be said for those who write well thought-out explanations and discussions.

- And while this will have to be thought out a little, I would welcome comments and ideas from the manufacturers, designers, and engineers who build the equipment. I always like to read what the the manufacturer have to say about the reviews in the back of Stereophile magazine. It's this kind of back-and-forth that engenders improvements. Now I know we don't want this site to be influenced by the manufacturers, but maybe they could have their own separate section where they could respond to some of the comments made on these boards. I often wonder if they are reading these posts and I must admit, there are times that I really wish they did.

- Someone already mentioned this, but how about a "new product announcement section" on this website? This could probably be generated automatically w/o too much programmer interaction if a standard submission format is created.

- Finally, I've noticed that these forums are heavily US-focussed. Maybe we could look for ways to get more people from across the pond and elsewhere to participate? While we're at it, how about finding ways to include women into these discussions, too? Don't they have sharper hearing? And jokes about WAFs notwithstanding, maybe women have a thing or two to to teach us about design?

Anyhow, those are some of my thoughts this evening. It's after 11pm here and I'm still toiling away at work (server crash). I really do need to get home....

[PeruvianSkies]

Here's a couple more ideas that I think will improve the quality of the site:

- Add more simple to answer "short answer", "yes/no", and "1-5 ratings" questions for people writing reviews. For those of us who have limited time to write these, it would be relatively easy to just click on a few items and write a short blurb, then to have to write a full dissertation on a particular component.

- While I agree that the galleries really add a lot, here's another section that I think people would appreciate: a documentation section, with the option of posting pics. I can't tell you many times I've pulled my hair out because a particular company won't post documentation or pics on their products, especially the older stuff. PS Audio obviously comes to mind, here. And some manufacturers like Onkyo, actually expect people to pay for older gear documentation! Now I know there are sites out there that sell manuals, but I wouldn't mind seeing a scanned brochure, promotional ad, a PDF file or even a pic of the back side of some of that older gear. For those of us in the market for second-hand components, this would be an invaluable resource, especially if it was linked to the reviews.

- Some people have mentioned graphics as a way to jazz things up, well from a programming perspective, I can think of one way to make this more interesting: make them dynamic. For example, instead of listing a poster's location with text, show a little map of the world with a pin of where they're posting from. Instead of just listing the number of posts, how about a tiny bar graph comparing this poster's total with 2-3 regulars. I also think the member information pages could be more dynamic: for example including a little thermometer graphic showing how many posts this member posted that day, and how that compares to other "hot" days. How about a graphical word count? After all, it's easy to boost one's numbers with one-line posts, but there's also something to be said for those who write well thought-out explanations and discussions.

- And while this will have to be thought out a little, I would welcome comments and ideas from the manufacturers, designers, and engineers who build the equipment. I always like to read what the the manufacturer have to say about the reviews in the back of Stereophile magazine. It's this kind of back-and-forth that engenders improvements. Now I know we don't want this site to be influenced by the manufacturers, but maybe they could have their own separate section where they could respond to some of the comments made on these boards. I often wonder if they are reading these posts and I must admit, there are times that I really wish they did.

- Someone already mentioned this, but how about a "new product announcement section" on this website? This could probably be generated automatically w/o too much programmer interaction if a standard submission format is created.

- Finally, I've noticed that these forums are heavily US-focussed. Maybe we could look for ways to get more people from across the pond and elsewhere to participate? While we're at it, how about finding ways to include women into these discussions, too? Don't they have sharper hearing? And jokes about WAFs notwithstanding, maybe women have a thing or two to to teach us about design?

Anyhow, those are some of my thoughts this evening. It's after 11pm here and I'm still toiling away at work (server crash). I really do need to get home....

Those are some really fun and great ideas. I like the idea of making the site a bit more dynamic with some of the current things going on, just ramp them up a bit. It's always great to make this place a bit more diverse and interactive.

I think that AR in it's current form has a lot going for it, but it just needs to be streamlined a bit more and much more functional. Plus, fun. I think that we could incorporate some of those ideas very easily and really help ramp up the overall involvement of this place. Maybe if we get some more females around here we could dress this place up a bit from the cold, sterile, blue and gray too! lol.

[PeruvianSkies]

[pixelthis]

I've yet to really figure out if I have interests that mesh with others around here. I've tried to participate in (and even started) a few threads but apparently my take on things is not aligned with any one else's head. I've got about 38 years in this hobby, a basement full of audio test equipment from my more active building days, time on the professional side (sound engineer and stereo store manager years ago), a healthy growing and varied music collection (over 18,000 tunes), a current system and good experience in the computer side of music and just don't see much that grabs my attention. And, what I have to offer doesn't seem to grab anyone else's.

As someone else indicated, there does seem to be a lack of focus here. A bit of stereo, a dose of HT, some music, a hint of DIY and so on, but just no strong current that draws people in and lets them know they're in the right place.

There are a lot of great people here (and it is nice to be away from some of the nut-case name calling one sees elsewhere) but in summary, here's my two cents - the place needs a stronger identity.

Another one who knows a little too much for this site.
I have been doing this for four decades, but one poster said I needed more "experience"
with turntables, when the only choice when I started WAS a turntable!
I am a bit rusty on the actual electronics side but am still quite knowledgable,
but a lot of stuff is anti-intuitive, try to post it and you get attacked as a "know-nothing".
I was even attacked for posting info on Yamahas sound bar, something that has been
on the market for a year, instead of accusing me of making things up all the attacker had to do was go to Yamahas site and read up on this thing!
And Mr peabody is quite polite but I still think hes' a bit leery of what I have posted about a sets resolution.
And the predictions I have made, which I beleive are sound, have been jeered, I have been
accused of stating these as fact, but they are just predictions!
But they have served the purpose of stirring things up a bit.
And peruvian schizoid, you wanna "improve" this site? Well, no more pictures of your ugly
mug, howzabout?
I mean, GOD, I just ate!

[PeruvianSkies]

Another one who knows a little too much for this site.
I have been doing this for four decades, but one poster said I needed more "experience"
with turntables, when the only choice when I started WAS a turntable!
I am a bit rusty on the actual electronics side but am still quite knowledgable,
but a lot of stuff is anti-intuitive, try to post it and you get attacked as a "know-nothing".
I was even attacked for posting info on Yamahas sound bar, something that has been
on the market for a year, instead of accusing me of making things up all the attacker had to do was go to Yamahas site and read up on this thing!
And Mr peabody is quite polite but I still think hes' a bit leery of what I have posted about a sets resolution.
And the predictions I have made, which I beleive are sound, have been jeered, I have been
accused of stating these as fact, but they are just predictions!
But they have served the purpose of stirring things up a bit.
And peruvian schizoid, you wanna "improve" this site? Well, no more pictures of your ugly
mug, howzabout?
I mean, GOD, I just ate!

Let me clarify a few things for you here. First, no one here really gives a hoot about what you say. In fact, you have the lowest reputation on this site currently because A. you don't know what you are talking about B. you think you know everything and C you come across as this ALL KNOWING person and it irritates those who know better.

So now that we have established that much, let's continue here a bit. Just because you have 'experience' with something doesn't mean you know everything that there is and this hobby changes a lot over time and you might THINK you know something, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Your OPINION by the way isn't the ABSOLUTE in anything. However, what irritates us the most is that you try and persuade people into thinking that what you say (again your OPINIONS) are the ONLY way and the ABSOLUTE way.

To give a few examples of this: LCD and Blu-ray. For whatever reason (my guess is your own delusion) you somehow KNOW that those two things are the ONLY thing that last and that you can somehow see into the future. It's one thing if you want to support those two things, but don't come around here claiming that they are BETTER than anything else yadda yadda yah. You don't know if they will last just like anyone else does. Maybe they will and maybe they won't.

Finally, let me address the 'pictures' jab that you threw out. Here's an idea...why don't you post some pictures of all of your gear? Hmmm. Are you too ashamed of what people might say? Or maybe it doesn't even exist to begin with. I am not ashamed to show off what I have or what I look like. I could care less what you think about me or my equipment. Others seem to enjoy it. You are in the minority here and you aren't making too many friends that quick. However, you for some reason think that I am the one that is crazy....well, than everyone else must be too because you are the only person that everyone here pretty much feels the same about. We have even tried to be patient with you and let you rant and rave, but you have pushed far too many buttons. You might be 50 years old, but you are too immature and one of the worst trolls I've ever seen around here. Now, either act right or get out!

[PeruvianSkies]

http://www.pixelthis.shutterchance.com/

nice outfit pixelthis!

[Bernd]

.....stock me thinks. A very good thread. I believe it is important to do a little soul searching now and then.Due to my work commitments my postings during the summer months drop right off (thank god some will say).
I stumbled into here as a PC virgin via the photo gallery. I agree with Kex's comment that AR resembles an Airport lounge. In my opinion AR displays above anything else a rich mixture off tolerance to other members. I met some great people on here and am proud to consider some of them my friends. Discovered some great music and generosity in RR which is full of smart and knowledgable people. As for hardware discussions, yes it can get a little stale especially if you have read enough threads about cables, etc. Never the less it is important to keep these going to attract new members and for me it's very enjoyable to follow someone else's audio journey.
I don't think that incentives will attract the members we would like, most likely one would get trophy hunters. I am also not sure that there is a way to force people to join. Either one joins or one does not. I also enjoy that we do not have a blinkered outlook and don't very often display a very narrow horizion. I would not enjoy to be on a "high end" (whatever that is) or any other specialist only forum.
The diversity and the exchange of points of views about other happenings outside audio makes AR the place it is.The sometimes talking of absolute rubbish by some members (I do enough of it and am guilty as charged) lightens the daily ritual a little. I welcome it. All we can do is to continue, and never lose sight that this forum is only as good as the members posts.
As was said before. I consider this small corner of the Universe part of my home.
Phew. Heavy for a saturday morn.
Have a great weekend one and all.

Peace

[thekid]

I do what I can-when I can, but between my limited knowledge and travel schedule, it is not much. As had been said the people are the main reason I hang out here. The flame wars and brand bashing do become tiresome but like any open forum people bring their own agenda to the table so as you get to know the personalities you get some insight into their perspective/agenda's.

I think Night has a good idea about some sort of easy-standardized review system. Point-Click and Comment. I think if you combined that with a comment section you could create something unique to most of these sites. It might add greater diversity of opinion and equipment.

[westcott]

I think I know what your saying, I just don't think your saying it right. I think your trying to say AR is trying to be a "jack of all trades but a master of none." i.e. some sites focus on vintage or DIY or ultra-hi-end or HT, where as AR seems to try to address all but doesn't do any particular one very well.

But there is something special about AR that no other site has: the review section and google prominence. AK, Audioholics, ect are all nice but don't have anything near the review section like AR. How many of us wound up hear because of that review section. I know I did. The question is how to leverage that.

Also, the site is to slow.

You nailed it right on the head. Maybe a link to the forum prominently placed on each product to a dedicated forum for that product or just to the forum itself. This is where google and other search engines are picking up the site.

Also, although we have a member gallery, the way it is presented is not conducive to viewing. I would like to see it change to a thumbnail format to make it easier for people to decide whos gallery they want to investigate further.

I would also suggest we whittle down all the categories. It just spreads us out and too thin and some categories just do not get the proper attention from the few of us who contribute. You can't help someone if you do not see their questions.

I would also like to see a resource center for white paper links, room acoustics, ground loop solutions, cabling how to, seating distance for audio, viewing distance calculator for video, speaker placement, audio and video calibration, room mode calculator, etc. If you have tools that people find helpful and come back to the site repeatedly to use, some will stay longer and longer and even join.

I am sure I can think of other ideas given time but we must leverage what brings people to the site in the first place.

[kexodusc]

I don't think that incentives will attract the members we would like, most likely one would get trophy hunters. I am also not sure that there is a way to force people to join.

Agreed!

I would also like to see a resource center for white paper links, room acoustics, ground loop solutions, cabling how to, seating distance for audio, viewing distance calculator for video, speaker placement, audio and video calibration, room mode calculator, etc. If you have tools that people find helpful and come back to the site repeatedly to use, some will stay longer and longer and even join.]

Yeah, this is one of the few forums I've visited without useful how-to's, faq's, stickies, etc...
There's been some attempt at this in the past, but surely it wouldn't be too hard to coordinate something - a lot of us would volunteer to write/research a topic or two I'm sure.

[Mr Peabody]

I thought we did have pretty good participation from outside the U.S. I'd guess about 50/50

I'm not into programming but be careful with getting too graphical. I don't think we want to end up with 2 versions of the website, one regular and one text for accessibility. I've noticed some large websites have done this, like Amazon and government websites. Text is better for hand held computer devices and adaptive software. For me, it's not a sites look as much as the content, is it something I want to read, and user friendly. As an example of what not to do, I'd like to visit the Krell website to see what's new if I could but that site is unuseable. It may be because of it being all graphics or some type of new web format. www.krellonline.com. I do use adaptive software and their site I can't get around in.

I don't agree with the being more focused issue. Why would we want to narrow the site down to one specialized forum? This is the right place, just post your question where it belongs. I'm perfectly happy with going to which ever forum that covers my question or new info. The "new post" link easily shows what has been visited lately. If we get more focused we would lose more people. There's no reason for me to stay if this became a planar site or just HT. Many of us have both stereo and HT, computers, portables or whatever. I feel being "more focused" is one of the worst suggestions given. The diverse topics is a plus.

We need to be careful how we oppose some one and be more open minded in order to keep those with more experience here. Hermanv is an EE and has built his own preamps and speakers. MLSTL has experience, Mr. Anderson seems to be our resident computer guy. Edtyct, who I haven't seen here is a long time was big into video. We've disagreed on a topic before but we need to try to keep our knowledgeable folks here. With this being said, it's not how many years you've been doing the hobby that gives you knowledge, Pix., I've been doing the hi fi thing for well over 25 years but it wasn't until maybe the last 10 when I started getting experience with true high end gear and HT. I don't profess to know everything but I start to doubt ones knowledge when they come to the board for the first time and start making wild blanket statements. I had some type of turntable since I was in elementary school collecting 45's, my eyes was not opened until several years back I tried my first Rega, before that, you would have gotten different answers from me. So it's not the years, it's the hands on experience and knowledge. There's turntables, and then, there's turntables. You have to show some respect because not everyone with experience will come on here and start blowing how they are this and that. If one has been into audio for 40 years and never had more than a receiver and speakers, your knowledge is going to be limited to what you've experienced despite the 40 years. We also have to keep in mind how subjective this hobby is and respect that sometimes there's no right or wrong.

For instance, Pix, there is a fair majority of people here who have at least some tube gear in their system and more with tube experience. When you come out of the blue and start spouting off that tubes are relegated to the 30's and a dead technology, you have to expect to lose some credibility fast. The same with turntables. Because you may not have heard a good set up yet doesn't mean there aren't any. If those of us say there are good tube gear and turntables, why wouldn't you start to think, well, maybe they are onto something, or, maybe they've heard something I haven't? But that's not your way and that's why you seem to have become a target. Your credibility is gone and no amount of arguing and name calling will get that back. If you decide to stick it out, the only way to get back on track is by choosing your posts wisely and trying to add substance to the conversation. I could care less if you ever hear another tube amp but don't be condecending to me, or anyone else, because it's my choice. I've had some good solid state gear and now I have tubes, I made my choice based on what I have actually heard and what I enjoy. So quit whining, because, I know MLSTL, and sir, you are no MLSTL.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Is everybody aware of the sticky at the top of the News & Rumors forum where you can add products? The link still works; I was able to fill in the form although I didn't submit it, and manufacturers also have the opportunity. The point is... let's make sure we're all aware of the existing resources so our criticisms and suggestions have more validity. Although, like I said... are they falling on deaf ears?

[E-Stat]

When you come out of the blue and start spouting off that tubes are relegated to the 30's and a dead technology, you have to expect to lose some credibility fast. The same with turntables. Because you may not have heard a good set up yet doesn't mean there aren't any.

I had a similar disagreement way back with poster Woodman regarding power cords. He said resolutely there could be no possible way different cords could influence the sound. While he had been a TV technician for fifty? years, he had zero exposure to the systems I was referring. When I pointed out the RF filtering aspects, he responded that such cords were no longer power cords. Right.

I think It is important to know what you don't know. I value direct exposure and experience over speculation, however well reasoned it may seem.

rw

[Mr Peabody]

One other thing a post remined me of, we have to be careful how much a manufacturer or their reps get involved here. I remember an incident where a review was requested to be removed because it wasn't glowing, I can't remember who it was now, either Odyssey or Bel Canto. I could see maybe a comment or rebutle place for manufactures if they wanted to respond. I have also had a review of a pair of Klipsch speakers mysteriously disappear. It was not a favorable review but I honestly had them in my home and hooked to my Krell and then some Adcom gear, the speakers were poor in every aspect from sound to build. So, if our review section is not going to be honest or only be one sided, why have it.