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  1. #1
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    Getting rid of the Equalizer

    Since I bought the Kenwood C2 preamplifier, the system sounds much better without the beautiful GE-1100 equalizer. When I had the C1 preamp it was improving the sound but with the C2 it makes it worse so I have to have it turned off!

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    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dakatabg
    Since I bought the Kenwood C2 preamplifier, the system sounds much better without the beautiful GE-1100 equalizer. When I had the C1 preamp it was improving the sound but with the C2 it makes it worse so I have to have it turned off!
    Good for you, next step is to throw that "beautiful" EQ in the trash, EQ is horse and buggy.
    A properly EQ'd system sounds great, but will never sound as good as a 500 dollar receiver
    with Audyssey auto setup. YES, ITS THAT good!
    AND EASY, all you do is plug in the setup mic, listen to the beeps from each speaker,
    and be prepared to be amazed.
    Some Audyssey is better than others, I think(not sure), my 1,000 Integra has level
    and EQ setup, nothing this cheap has a right to sound this good.
    And a bonus, it does a good enough job with my B&W sub that I recently repaired
    that I can use it with two channel audio without sacrificing the sound quality.
    Audyssey is not hype, it is a genuine improvement, and no matter how "hot" your system
    is, its worth buying something with Audyssey just to get the effect of a perfectly
    balanced system. MOST AUDIOPHILES gave up on EQ a long time ago, and for good reason. With Audyssey they can go back to it. THE TUBE crowd can ignore all of the above, turn over and go back to your 1934 SET amps.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    MOST AUDIOPHILES gave up on EQ a long time ago, and for good reason.
    Thats right, with a decent setup, you don't need an Equalizer or Tone Controls.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    With Audyssey they can go back to it. THE TUBE crowd can ignore all of the above, turn over and go back to your 1934 SET amps.
    Again, with a proper tube based system, along with a pair of speakers that match, you don't need an Equalizer or Tone Controls.

    Now all you HTIB is better than any tube based system folks can go back to trying different equalizers to get the same sound that an Audiophile has without extra help.


    Dak,

    An equalizer helps in some cases, not in others. The guy who owned the system I have now did need an EQ because the system was on an enclosed porch that was all floor to ceiling glass doors. The glass zapped all the bass right out of the speakers. These speakers don't go real deep but they play the notes accurately. I have blended a sub in for the deeper bass when needed or desired but I listen both ways.

    My system has no tone controls either and I don't miss them at all.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular winston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dakatabg
    Since I bought the Kenwood C2 preamplifier, the system sounds much better without the beautiful GE-1100 equalizer. When I had the C1 preamp it was improving the sound but with the C2 it makes it worse so I have to have it turned off!
    I hear U man.... I remember back in the day's I could not live without my (Sansui-eq) BUT those were my day's of the "TT", it becomes a door stop after the Cd's and new audio equipment takes over, (IMO the Graphic equalizer renders useless, given that every things much more efficient these days ) but it sure was great with those old shellac.

    that said, I some times used my old "BSR PARAMETRIC EQ with my headphones
    Chet Baker-Trumpet
    Pepper Adams-Baritone Sax
    Herbie Mann-Flute
    Bill Evans-Piano
    Paul Chambers-Bass & Connie Kay-Drums
    (....ALONE TOGETHER....) DEC. 30 1958
    produced by...Orrin Keepnews...

  5. #5
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    It all depends on what amp or receiver you use! If you use a crapy one, you will need eq to fix the sound a little!

  6. #6
    Charm Thai™
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    MOST AUDIOPHILES gave up on EQ a long time ago, and for good reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Thats right, with a decent setup, you don't need an Equalizer or Tone Controls.
    I totally disagree Do none of you listen to cassettes? I specifically got a preamp with defeatable tone controls cuz I needed them. I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHills44060
    I totally disagree Do none of you listen to cassettes? I specifically got a preamp with defeatable tone controls cuz I needed them. I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.
    Umm, I actually have a cassette player and listen to tapes I made of albums way back. In my system, these tapes sound as good or better than CDs because they retained the analog emotion from the source album.

    I also worked in machine shops for 25 years and still don't really need any treble boost. I have a Hafler 945 Pre Tuner with tone controls that can be taken out of the path and it always sounded better with them turned off. I now have a Rotel Receiver with tone controls that cannot be disabled which I don't like.

    My VAC pre is just plain dual mono with left and right volume, no tone, no eq and doesn't need them.

    I guess it all depends on the gear and how crappy the cassette is.

  8. #8
    Charm Thai™
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    True, I have a lot of dubbed cassettes and even some manufactured cassettes that are unbearable with out some sort of tone modification. Others sound just fine.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHills44060
    I totally disagree Do none of you listen to cassettes? I specifically got a preamp with defeatable tone controls cuz I needed them. I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.
    Of course I don't listen to cassettes, like most of the world I have moved on.
    Any form factor that requires EQ to just sound decent is not worth the trouble.
    I USED TO HAVE a NAD cassette recorder, used it to record my vinyl to listen to in the car,
    only choice you had. I STILL HAVE A CASSETTE player in my car, use an adapter to listen
    to my MP3 player with over a hundred albums on it.
    THEY SELL a USB cassette player, complete with software to clean up the inherent
    noise in a cassette. YOU NEED TO GET IT, transfer your tapes to the computer, clean them up, and join the rest of us in the 21st century.
    CASSETTE has a lifespan(short) and sound like crap, they only existed to fill a gap nothing
    else at the time would fill. They have no place in the modern world.
    TOSS EM.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Getting rid of the Equalizer-dvdrewinder.gif  
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  10. #10
    Charm Thai™
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    YOU NEED TO GET IT, transfer your tapes to the computer,
    there's where u are wrong...i do not want a computer touching my audio! i work for Intuit. you might have heard of us, we make turbotax and quicken. i am forced to work with a computer every ****in day...i do not want what makes me feel alive to have anything to do with what funds my existance.

  11. #11
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Speaking of cassette and analog recording...I find recording to digital to be better than recording to tape. In recent years I significantly upgraded my cassette capability with a Sony ES and a Nakamichi and then sold them both after seeing they couldn't keep up with the Pioneer CD recorder. I also think my recordings to the computer through a SoundBlaster Live USB beat tape, too.

    Of course, if I had a Dragon I might have a different experience. So if I run across one at the local thrifts I'll report back.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHills44060
    I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.
    The problem is that you cannot add that which is absent - real extended high frequency content. All you can do is boost the lower highs which may well sound *brighter*, but not better to these ears. The same is true of bass. You can fatten up what's there, but not recover lost first octave content. On the other hand, I do use the treble control in my HT system to attenuate overly bright content.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHills44060
    i work for Intuit. you might have heard of us, we make turbotax and quicken...i do not want what makes me feel alive to have anything to do with what funds my existance.
    Indeed. I've been a long term user of both fine products. I consider Quicken an indispensable tool. I too, work for a software provider but don't find any conflict with using computer based technology in my music systems. Just recently, I added a Squeezebox Touch to the garage system which streams content from my office server. I am re-exploring so much of my music library through random play that I had previously forgotten about.

    rw

  13. #13
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHills44060
    there's where u are wrong...i do not want a computer touching my audio! i work for Intuit. you might have heard of us, we make turbotax and quicken. i am forced to work with a computer every ****in day...i do not want what makes me feel alive to have anything to do with what funds my existance.
    Sorry, but that boat has sailed. All new music goes digital at some time or other,
    even the "vinyl" that is sold to the rubes.
    And if your tapes were recorded after 1980 they probably have been through a DAC
    at some time or other, also.
    YOU CAN LOSE your music to entropy, they will wear out sooner or later . OR
    you can convert them to some kind of lossless audio codec on your computer.
    One way they will be gone sooner or later, the other you save something.
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  14. #14
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHills44060
    there's where u are wrong...i do not want a computer touching my audio! i work for Intuit. you might have heard of us, we make turbotax and quicken. i am forced to work with a computer every ****in day...i do not want what makes me feel alive to have anything to do with what funds my existance.
    AND if your irrational hatred of computers to play music persists in that brain of yours,
    perhaps you can go back to a simpler time(see below).
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  15. #15
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    i have a soundcraftsmen pe2217 pre with 10 bands of eq per channel and almost NEVER touch it.

    likewise, i have computers all over the house and the ONLY digital streaming is the stations like kkjz.org, kcsm.org and http://www.thesoundla.com/.

    i just LOVE the size of LP art and the more complete sound that i get from vinyl. yes, i DO have plenty of digital discs including sacd and a couple of DVDAs and digital is the vehicle that some music comes to you exclusively. i have picked my CD players to be sacd capable ever since i bought my sony ns500v which makes rbcd sound much better than any digital player i ever had before.

    room correction hasnt arrived here yet and it may be some time until it does. i believe in it but would have to add an outboard unit to do so. helll, i havent even hooked up my full capability of 5.1 that exists in my nuforce pre/pro. i have a center spkr for the system and amount for it for my video monitor (TV). someday maybe.

    my audio research sp3a1 has tone controls that i dont use either but they are there JUST in case.
    ...regards...tr

  16. #16
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifitommy
    i have a soundcraftsmen pe2217 pre with 10 bands of eq per channel and almost NEVER touch it.

    likewise, i have computers all over the house and the ONLY digital streaming is the stations like kkjz.org, kcsm.org and http://www.thesoundla.com/.

    i just LOVE the size of LP art and the more complete sound that i get from vinyl. yes, i DO have plenty of digital discs including sacd and a couple of DVDAs and digital is the vehicle that some music comes to you exclusively. i have picked my CD players to be sacd capable ever since i bought my sony ns500v which makes rbcd sound much better than any digital player i ever had before.

    room correction hasnt arrived here yet and it may be some time until it does. i believe in it but would have to add an outboard unit to do so. helll, i havent even hooked up my full capability of 5.1 that exists in my nuforce pre/pro. i have a center spkr for the system and amount for it for my video monitor (TV). someday maybe.

    my audio research sp3a1 has tone controls that i dont use either but they are there JUST in case.
    The best thing is to keep on not touching it.
    You chaps across the pond are missing out, I WAS VERY SKEPTICAL of auto EQ
    systems, but I have been made a believer. I SHY AWAY from anything that might color the sound, but I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT(PRAISE THE LORD).
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  17. #17
    Mutant from table 9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    AND if your irrational hatred of computers to play music persists in that brain of yours,
    perhaps you can go back to a simpler time(see below).

    Why do you insist on telling people that their subjective enjoyment of their system and sources are wrong? Why is it your way or no way?

    And guess what? In your effort to be a smart ass, you actually hit the nail on he head. Much of my system and listening habits are designed to transport me to a simpler time. I enjoy my cassettes and LPs from years ago. Why would you care if I run an analog cassette thru a 32 band digital EQ to a Class A amp? Why do you have a problem with that? I understand that cassettes are not perfect. I've taken others on the forums to task for suggesting that they are hi-fi. But, I've never denied anyone the pleasure of their 6th grade mix tapes.

    In honor of the mighty much maligned cassette:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXQ3aJR_fUg

    The troll has been fed.
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  18. #18
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    And back on topic: I use a cheap Behringer 32 band digital EQ just for fun. In fact it just went back into rotation after being out for like 9 months. I like to play with it to tweak sources like cassettes and minidiscs. Its fun, looks surprisingly nice, and easily defeatable. All processing is done digitally, so no real noise is added (like my old Teac did), although you could argue that I'm sending the signal through a cheap DAC. But if its an 8 track or cassette, the DAC is the least of my worries.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    Why do you insist on telling people that their subjective enjoyment of their system and sources are wrong? Why is it your way or no way?

    And guess what? In your effort to be a smart ass, you actually hit the nail on he head. Much of my system and listening habits are designed to transport me to a simpler time. I enjoy my cassettes and LPs from years ago. Why would you care if I run an analog cassette thru a 32 band digital EQ to a Class A amp? Why do you have a problem with that? I understand that cassettes are not perfect. I've taken others on the forums to task for suggesting that they are hi-fi. But, I've never denied anyone the pleasure of their 6th grade mix tapes.

    In honor of the mighty much maligned cassette:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXQ3aJR_fUg

    The troll has been fed.
    Don't sweat him. Here is a person telling you that cassettes and tubes are outdated as well as anything analog, but he still plays prehistoric vinyl. He will also claim over and over that any HT in a Box sounds as good or better than any tube based system. So what would you expect?

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    Thank, hyfi. No sweat, just felt the need to rattle the cage a bit. Although, he may have a point about tubes. :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    Thank, hyfi. No sweat, just felt the need to rattle the cage a bit. Although, he may have a point about tubes. :P
    Look at it this way, a nice tube setup with no tone controls or EQ or continue to try and make a crappy setup sound as it was never intended and can't possibly sound no matter how many bands the equalizer has.

  22. #22
    Mutant from table 9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Look at it this way, a nice tube setup with no tone controls or EQ or continue to try and make a crappy setup sound as it was never intended and can't possibly sound no matter how many bands the equalizer has.

    The internet really needs a sarcasm font. I was kidding about tubes.

    I like tubes. I don't have any right now, but enjoy them. As long as they are still used in the production of music (i.e. amp heads and vintage production equipment), then they have a rightful place in the reproduction of music.

    One of my favorite entry level rigs that I ever heard was a little integrated Jolida driving a little 4" two way bookshelf (forget the brand) and an entry level Project table. It was something like $1000 total retail. It had me cursing my snake pit of wires and 9.2 speakers and wishing for a little attic room to build a sweet little two channel no digital zone. Oh, and it did not sound anything like an HTiB.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    The internet really needs a sarcasm font. I was kidding about tubes.
    I knew that and my jab was somewhat the same.

    There is probably nothing wrong with an EQ as long as the grade of components it is built with are not inferior to the rest of the gear. That and it adds more to the path as well as more cables.

    I had an all in one cheapo rack system as a kid with a 3 or 5 band thingy but that is the only time I ever used one. I sold the AudioControl 10 that I got with the rest of the system I have now without ever even trying it out.

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    I have two equalizers in the attic that use to be part of my systems. I have to admit they were fun to use especially for cassettes or vinyl sources. Can't think of any place to use it now.

  25. #25
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingus
    I have two equalizers in the attic that use to be part of my systems...Can't think of any place to use it now.
    Ebay or Audiogon! Recently, I sold an equalizer along with a CD player, CD changer and some power cords. That funded getting a Squeezebox Touch and aftermarket linear power supply for it. Put what you no longer need to good use - unless you are starting a museum.

    rw

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