Getting rid of the Equalizer

[dakatabg]

Since I bought the Kenwood C2 preamplifier, the system sounds much better without the beautiful GE-1100 equalizer. When I had the C1 preamp it was improving the sound but with the C2 it makes it worse so I have to have it turned off!

[pixelthis]

Since I bought the Kenwood C2 preamplifier, the system sounds much better without the beautiful GE-1100 equalizer. When I had the C1 preamp it was improving the sound but with the C2 it makes it worse so I have to have it turned off!

Good for you, next step is to throw that "beautiful" EQ in the trash, EQ is horse and buggy.
A properly EQ'd system sounds great, but will never sound as good as a 500 dollar receiver
with Audyssey auto setup. YES, ITS THAT good!
AND EASY, all you do is plug in the setup mic, listen to the beeps from each speaker,
and be prepared to be amazed.
Some Audyssey is better than others, I think(not sure), my 1,000 Integra has level
and EQ setup, nothing this cheap has a right to sound this good.
And a bonus, it does a good enough job with my B&W sub that I recently repaired
that I can use it with two channel audio without sacrificing the sound quality.
Audyssey is not hype, it is a genuine improvement, and no matter how "hot" your system
is, its worth buying something with Audyssey just to get the effect of a perfectly
balanced system. MOST AUDIOPHILES gave up on EQ a long time ago, and for good reason. With Audyssey they can go back to it. THE TUBE crowd can ignore all of the above, turn over and go back to your 1934 SET amps.

[Hyfi]

MOST AUDIOPHILES gave up on EQ a long time ago, and for good reason.

Thats right, with a decent setup, you don't need an Equalizer or Tone Controls.

With Audyssey they can go back to it. THE TUBE crowd can ignore all of the above, turn over and go back to your 1934 SET amps.

Again, with a proper tube based system, along with a pair of speakers that match, you don't need an Equalizer or Tone Controls.

Now all you HTIB is better than any tube based system folks can go back to trying different equalizers to get the same sound that an Audiophile has without extra help.


Dak,

An equalizer helps in some cases, not in others. The guy who owned the system I have now did need an EQ because the system was on an enclosed porch that was all floor to ceiling glass doors. The glass zapped all the bass right out of the speakers. These speakers don't go real deep but they play the notes accurately. I have blended a sub in for the deeper bass when needed or desired but I listen both ways.

My system has no tone controls either and I don't miss them at all.

[TheHills44060]

MOST AUDIOPHILES gave up on EQ a long time ago, and for good reason.

Thats right, with a decent setup, you don't need an Equalizer or Tone Controls.

I totally disagree Do none of you listen to cassettes? I specifically got a preamp with defeatable tone controls cuz I needed them. I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.

[Hyfi]

I totally disagree Do none of you listen to cassettes? I specifically got a preamp with defeatable tone controls cuz I needed them. I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.

Umm, I actually have a cassette player and listen to tapes I made of albums way back. In my system, these tapes sound as good or better than CDs because they retained the analog emotion from the source album.

I also worked in machine shops for 25 years and still don't really need any treble boost. I have a Hafler 945 Pre Tuner with tone controls that can be taken out of the path and it always sounded better with them turned off. I now have a Rotel Receiver with tone controls that cannot be disabled which I don't like.

My VAC pre is just plain dual mono with left and right volume, no tone, no eq and doesn't need them.

I guess it all depends on the gear and how crappy the cassette is.

[pixelthis]

I totally disagree Do none of you listen to cassettes? I specifically got a preamp with defeatable tone controls cuz I needed them. I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.

Of course I don't listen to cassettes, like most of the world I have moved on.
Any form factor that requires EQ to just sound decent is not worth the trouble.
I USED TO HAVE a NAD cassette recorder, used it to record my vinyl to listen to in the car,
only choice you had. I STILL HAVE A CASSETTE player in my car, use an adapter to listen
to my MP3 player with over a hundred albums on it.
THEY SELL a USB cassette player, complete with software to clean up the inherent
noise in a cassette. YOU NEED TO GET IT, transfer your tapes to the computer, clean them up, and join the rest of us in the 21st century.
CASSETTE has a lifespan(short) and sound like crap, they only existed to fill a gap nothing
else at the time would fill. They have no place in the modern world.
TOSS EM.

[TheHills44060]

YOU NEED TO GET IT, transfer your tapes to the computer,

there's where u are wrong...i do not want a computer touching my audio! i work for Intuit. you might have heard of us, we make turbotax and quicken. i am forced to work with a computer every ****in day...i do not want what makes me feel alive to have anything to do with what funds my existance.

[E-Stat]

I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.

The problem is that you cannot add that which is absent - real extended high frequency content. All you can do is boost the lower highs which may well sound *brighter*, but not better to these ears. The same is true of bass. You can fatten up what's there, but not recover lost first octave content. On the other hand, I do use the treble control in my HT system to attenuate overly bright content.

i work for Intuit. you might have heard of us, we make turbotax and quicken...i do not want what makes me feel alive to have anything to do with what funds my existance.

Indeed. I've been a long term user of both fine products. I consider Quicken an indispensable tool. I too, work for a software provider but don't find any conflict with using computer based technology in my music systems. Just recently, I added a Squeezebox Touch to the garage system which streams content from my office server. I am re-exploring so much of my music library through random play that I had previously forgotten about.

rw

[winston]

Since I bought the Kenwood C2 preamplifier, the system sounds much better without the beautiful GE-1100 equalizer. When I had the C1 preamp it was improving the sound but with the C2 it makes it worse so I have to have it turned off!

I hear U man.... I remember back in the day's I could not live without my (Sansui-eq) BUT those were my day's of the "TT", it becomes a door stop after the Cd's and new audio equipment takes over, (IMO the Graphic equalizer renders useless, given that every things much more efficient these days ) but it sure was great with those old shellac.

that said, I some times used my old "BSR PARAMETRIC EQ with my headphones

[dakatabg]

It all depends on what amp or receiver you use! If you use a crapy one, you will need eq to fix the sound a little!

[TheHills44060]

True, I have a lot of dubbed cassettes and even some manufactured cassettes that are unbearable with out some sort of tone modification. Others sound just fine.

[02audionoob]

Speaking of cassette and analog recording...I find recording to digital to be better than recording to tape. In recent years I significantly upgraded my cassette capability with a Sony ES and a Nakamichi and then sold them both after seeing they couldn't keep up with the Pioneer CD recorder. I also think my recordings to the computer through a SoundBlaster Live USB beat tape, too.

Of course, if I had a Dragon I might have a different experience. So if I run across one at the local thrifts I'll report back.

[hifitommy]

i have a soundcraftsmen pe2217 pre with 10 bands of eq per channel and almost NEVER touch it.

likewise, i have computers all over the house and the ONLY digital streaming is the stations like kkjz.org, kcsm.org and http://www.thesoundla.com/.

i just LOVE the size of LP art and the more complete sound that i get from vinyl. yes, i DO have plenty of digital discs including sacd and a couple of DVDAs and digital is the vehicle that some music comes to you exclusively. i have picked my CD players to be sacd capable ever since i bought my sony ns500v which makes rbcd sound much better than any digital player i ever had before.

room correction hasnt arrived here yet and it may be some time until it does. i believe in it but would have to add an outboard unit to do so. helll, i havent even hooked up my full capability of 5.1 that exists in my nuforce pre/pro. i have a center spkr for the system and amount for it for my video monitor (TV). someday maybe.

my audio research sp3a1 has tone controls that i dont use either but they are there JUST in case.

[pixelthis]

i have a soundcraftsmen pe2217 pre with 10 bands of eq per channel and almost NEVER touch it.

likewise, i have computers all over the house and the ONLY digital streaming is the stations like kkjz.org, kcsm.org and http://www.thesoundla.com/.

i just LOVE the size of LP art and the more complete sound that i get from vinyl. yes, i DO have plenty of digital discs including sacd and a couple of DVDAs and digital is the vehicle that some music comes to you exclusively. i have picked my CD players to be sacd capable ever since i bought my sony ns500v which makes rbcd sound much better than any digital player i ever had before.

room correction hasnt arrived here yet and it may be some time until it does. i believe in it but would have to add an outboard unit to do so. helll, i havent even hooked up my full capability of 5.1 that exists in my nuforce pre/pro. i have a center spkr for the system and amount for it for my video monitor (TV). someday maybe.

my audio research sp3a1 has tone controls that i dont use either but they are there JUST in case.

The best thing is to keep on not touching it.
You chaps across the pond are missing out, I WAS VERY SKEPTICAL of auto EQ
systems, but I have been made a believer. I SHY AWAY from anything that might color the sound, but I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT(PRAISE THE LORD).

[hifitommy]

well pixi, you ARE a troll, one that likes to see his name spelled out in urine in the snow. its ignorant of you to denigrate other people's preferences.

the word isnt realy in yet about digital storage (there is such a thing as CD rot) AND it just doesnt sound quite as good as analog (dsd and dvda are getting close). for long term storage (as if that's the only reason we put things on tape -how about portability and sound?) one can use metal tape cassettes in a deck with dolby S. it is D.E.A.D. quiet across the audible band and very long storage viability.

btw, there is NO such thing as an ANTIQUE technics tt. none of them are older than 50 yrs and thats pretty much the def of antique.

[SlumpBuster]

the word isnt realy in yet about digital storage

I don't know about now, but back in the 90s when I was in college, I worked at the University's records archive and the word pretty much was in. All magnetic storage was on a two year storage rotation and CDs were on a three year rotation. That was how little the professional archivists trusted them. It was a real hot topic back then, at least among professional archivists. Wild bunch of nerds them archivists are.

[pixelthis]

well pixi, you ARE a troll, one that likes to see his name spelled out in urine in the snow. its ignorant of you to denigrate other people's preferences.

the word isnt realy in yet about digital storage (there is such a thing as CD rot) AND it just doesnt sound quite as good as analog (dsd and dvda are getting close). for long term storage (as if that's the only reason we put things on tape -how about portability and sound?) one can use metal tape cassettes in a deck with dolby S. it is D.E.A.D. quiet across the audible band and very long storage viability.

btw, there is NO such thing as an ANTIQUE technics tt. none of them are older than 50 yrs and thats pretty much the def of antique.

THE "DEFINITION" of "antique" is such as you, old sot.
Doesnt matter if its "metal" or whatever, tape has a lifespan, and degrades with each copy,
no such thing as a perfect copy in the analog world, however entropy thrives.
CD rot is ancient history, I personally saw the huge filtration system at a JVC disc plant
that takes the iron oxide out of water used to wash CD blanks. To pull up that old bug a boo just shows how out of touch you are.
And I AM NOT "denigrating" another persons choices, just pointing out the inevitable
result of such. It is a fact that cassettes die eventually, just pointing that out.
Live and let live is the mantra of worn out old hippies such as yourself, what everybody
does is fine, doesnt matter how ignorant it is. EVER occur to you that the chap I was
posting to might appreciate the advice?
MOST have noclue as to how fast magnetic tape dies, although some have a vague idea. Even if it doesn't disappear completely in ten years a good percentage of it will be gone, weather you or anybody else likes it or not, and its not a smart way to store precious memories. MOST are aware of this, however they don't understand just how poor
a storage medium tape is. AND PLAYBACK AINT THAT GREAT EITHER.
But if someone is banging his head against the wall, engaging in behavior that is guaranteed to destroy his music, well, just wouldn't be PC to point that out, now would it?
BETTER WE JUST JOIN HANDS and sing shambala and chant love poems to each other
while children jump around and toss rose petals.

[Hyfi]

BETTER WE JUST JOIN HANDS and sing shambala and chant love poems to each other
while children jump around and toss rose petals.

I think you may have meant "Kum By Ya" and not Shambala. I don't think anyone but you will be singing Shambala but you.....

In Buddhism

* Shambhala Buddhism is a Buddhist lineage headed by Sakyong Mipham RInpoche

Related to Shambhala Buddhism:

* Shambhala, a mythical kingdom described in the Kalachakra tantra of Tibetan Buddhism
* Shambhala Training
* Shambhala Sun, a bimonthly, Buddhist-inspired magazine, published by the Shambhala Sun Foundation
* The Shambhala School, a a non-denominational private school in Halifax, Nova Scotia

In Hinduism

In Hinduism Shambala has three meanings:

* Shambhal is a place where one gets peace and security
* Another meaning is, "that which attracts others", or "that which confers distinction"
* The third meaning is, "a place situated near water".

In Theosophy

* Shamballa (Theosophical spelling) is the dwelling place of the governing deity of Earth, Sanat Kumara, and his attendants.

In Hollow Earth Cosmology

* Shamballah is the chief city of the Agharta, mythological land of advanced races and knowledge living at the center of the hollow earth

[thekid]

My two cents......

I will leave the technical aspects of this debate up to those skilled enough to have it.
However, I think everyone can agree that there are differences in sound between digital and analog. There is nothing wrong with preferring one over the other but I think we get off track when start attacking people for their preferences.

It is generally agreed by members here that it okay to prefer one speaker over another or one receiver over another because of individual preferences. So why can't we have the same agreement about formats?

I live comfortably in both worlds and have many titles on both vinyl and CD or even in a few instances cassette. They generally all have differences which I appreciate rather than separate. Which format I listen to is often decided on what I am doing at the moment or how long I plan to listen to music. It is in the end about the music and the listener not the technology and the listener.

[Mark of Cenla]

Back when I was into using one 8" full-range driver, I had to use an EQ to smooth out the sound. Since I left that about two years ago, my EQ was removed and is collecting dust, just the same as my cassette deck. To each his/her own, but I am a CD guy. Peace and goodwill.