An elitest's viewpoint.

[RGA]

This is what I read "When the RM-200 was in the system, I wanted for nothing-and for $4,200, that's something."

To me he is saying this amp hangs in with very expensive amps and doesn't leaving him desiring for more expensive amps - or you could read - "as good as mega-buck amps he likes."

My experience is the best of the best costs large sums of money that cheap stuff doesn't approach.

Yesterday I went to a very nice shop selling several systems - One system (All Roksan from cartridge wires turntable to amp, CD player and speakers was about $8,000) and it sounded really good - I listened to Eva Cassidy jazz master CD and some Beethoven piano works. For the money it sounded very good. It sounded good period and if you didn't audition the rig in the next room where the cables were more expensive than the entire Roksan system you'd be hard pressed to really find fault with it.

The problem is that the next room while ludicrously expensive with ~$250,000 system is wholly and entirely on another level.

There is simply no way anyone with decent hearing (and even if you're 90% deaf) could walk out of the two rooms and draw any other conclusion. The notion of "multiple times" better is not the issue. It doesn't have to be multiple times better - it either does it for you or it doesn't. And while it would be great to bury my head in the sand and read a spec sheet on the Roksan gear and conclude well it's better because it measures as good if not better but it's still just pretending - justification upon justification.

I am much closer to the Roksan budget than the other system - but in direct comparison the Roksan is a pile of crud. If you don't directly compare - the Roksan is a fraking musically nice system - good treble sparkle - not bright - decent enough bass from the floorstanders - no irritating colourations, good timing speed articulation - a complete system that together is better than the sum of their parts. I would HIGHLY and strongly recommend that system to anyone in the budget or even several thousand above that budget. tremendous sound. But compared to the other system - it's missing just so much - and if you have the coin the Roksan just doesn't cut it.

[Ajani]

This is what I read "When the RM-200 was in the system, I wanted for nothing-and for $4,200, that's something."

To me he is saying this amp hangs in with very expensive amps and doesn't leaving him desiring for more expensive amps - or you could read - "as good as mega-buck amps he likes."

My experience is the best of the best costs large sums of money that cheap stuff doesn't approach.

Yesterday I went to a very nice shop selling several systems - One system (All Roksan from cartridge wires turntable to amp, CD player and speakers was about $8,000) and it sounded really good - I listened to Eva Cassidy jazz master CD and some Beethoven piano works. For the money it sounded very good. It sounded good period and if you didn't audition the rig in the next room where the cables were more expensive than the entire Roksan system you'd be hard pressed to really find fault with it.

The problem is that the next room while ludicrously expensive with ~$250,000 system is wholly and entirely on another level.

There is simply no way anyone with decent hearing (and even if you're 90% deaf) could walk out of the two rooms and draw any other conclusion. The notion of "multiple times" better is not the issue. It doesn't have to be multiple times better - it either does it for you or it doesn't. And while it would be great to bury my head in the sand and read a spec sheet on the Roksan gear and conclude well it's better because it measures as good if not better but it's still just pretending - justification upon justification.

I am much closer to the Roksan budget than the other system - but in direct comparison the Roksan is a pile of crud. If you don't directly compare - the Roksan is a fraking musically nice system - good treble sparkle - not bright - decent enough bass from the floorstanders - no irritating colourations, good timing speed articulation - a complete system that together is better than the sum of their parts. I would HIGHLY and strongly recommend that system to anyone in the budget or even several thousand above that budget. tremendous sound. But compared to the other system - it's missing just so much - and if you have the coin the Roksan just doesn't cut it.

To borrow Stereophile terminology (with my own definition) that's what I'd call a Class B setup - A system that sounds great once you don't directly compare it to something better... That's the kind of setup I aim for... There should be nothing obviously lacking or irritating about the sound... You just enjoy the music and would never realize anything is wrong with what you're hearing, unless you directly compare to something much better...

That kind of system can be accomplished without winning the lottery or filing for bankruptcy...

[RGA]

Ajani

Agreed - I prefer reviewing gear in this price range because frankly I believe I would get more readers. $100,000k amps are all nice and fine but few people buy them and frankly they SHOULD be terrific. There is no great difficulty in building anything to a high level when budgets are "open."

The trick is doing what the Roksan system does while not spending large sums - take the turntable out of it and it's a $6k system. And I don't much like SS and even I liked it. This is a system (speakers, amp, CD and cables) that does it mostly right and doesn't fatigue the ear and the speakers don't get in the way like many do. Now I didn't throw everything at it but voice and piano - does a good job of that chances are it's on the right track. I will go back again and perhaps ask to review the whole system.

Now if they could get something cheap to sound like system 2 I would be amazed. But the big tube amps always seem to cost a bomb.

[Hyfi]

This is what I read "When the RM-200 was in the system, I wanted for nothing-and for $4,200, that's something."

To me he is saying this amp hangs in with very expensive amps and doesn't leaving him desiring for more expensive amps - or you could read - "as good as mega-buck amps he likes."

My experience is the best of the best costs large sums of money that cheap stuff doesn't approach.

Yesterday I went to a very nice shop selling several systems - One system (All Roksan from cartridge wires turntable to amp, CD player and speakers was about $8,000) and it sounded really good - I listened to Eva Cassidy jazz master CD and some Beethoven piano works. For the money it sounded very good. It sounded good period and if you didn't audition the rig in the next room where the cables were more expensive than the entire Roksan system you'd be hard pressed to really find fault with it.

The problem is that the next room while ludicrously expensive with ~$250,000 system is wholly and entirely on another level.

There is simply no way anyone with decent hearing (and even if you're 90% deaf) could walk out of the two rooms and draw any other conclusion. The notion of "multiple times" better is not the issue. It doesn't have to be multiple times better - it either does it for you or it doesn't. And while it would be great to bury my head in the sand and read a spec sheet on the Roksan gear and conclude well it's better because it measures as good if not better but it's still just pretending - justification upon justification.

That is what I miss so much about Soundex going out of business. They had 22 sound rooms. 1st floor was all 2 channel and the 2nd floor was 80% HT, along with the "Rocksan" range setups.

Room #1 was always the mega buck setup from Krell, Levinson, Wilson, full Dynaudio Arbiter setup and so on. I used to take a few disks there on Saturdays and just wander around playing my disks.

One of my favorite rooms was BAT with Pro-Ac speakers and usually a high dollar turntable. That room sounded as good or better than some of what they setup in room 1.

But, RGA is right, when you have the chance to walk from an 8K room to a 250K room, you will hear a difference and usually a pretty significant one at that.

One of my old tricks when my system wasn't so pleasing, was to go for a ride in the car with a crappy cassette. When I got back, the stereo sounded fine again....for a while.