An elitest's viewpoint.

[Poultrygeist]

I keep buying expensive gear only to sell it as my home brew stuff sounds way better. I need not to buy anymore expensive gear but instead concentrate on DIY.

The guys on DIY Audio have owned all the great gear but cast it aside once they discovered they could build far better for far less. There is no magic in ultra high end gear to justify the price. But without it's mystical allure the author of the article wouldn't have an audience to write for.

Back in the early part of this century I sold a Sansui tuner to a guy in Florida. We became internet friends and he sent me pictures of his DIY speakers. I thought he was nuts as he kept saying how his speakers sounded better than commercial speakers selling for thousands. Now I know he was probably telling the truth.

Few if any on this board realize the level that's attainable with DIY speakers. DIY Atlanta would no doubt make some believers.

[02audionoob]

We all like what we like. It's like the Jolida phono stage that you're modding. Underwood says theirs competes with units that cost $1500. They say the same thing about their modded Music Hall CD player. I have one. I also have a CD player that cost me a grand. And the Music Hall doesn't measure up. To each his own.

[Poultrygeist]

CD players and digital in general are a mixed bag for me as I'm not able to tell much difference among good players. My $100 modded Playstation One has no business competing with my $1000 Marantz SA8004 but it does on redbook ( not on SACD ). I also prefer it to the expensive tubed top loader I just sold.

With speakers and amps come the huge differences. It's not so much a preference unless you are able to hear the best examples of DIY vs the best commercial offerings. It's like someone saying they prefer solid state amps over single ended triode amps yet they've never heard a SET.

[Hyfi]

Once you buy a real high end component, you quickly get the idea WHY you bought it. Uusing products like these gives you the knowledge that they are truly better than the consumer grade pieces you owned and maybe STILL own and use.

Some seemingly consumer grade products are worthy of the high end moniker such as the NAD 3020/1020 units. To go back to the inferior units you used in the past is usually less than pleasant in absolute terms. Livable, YES, but it leaves you with the yearning for higher end things.

It's hard not to get just a little haughty when you hear some people state that their run of the mill components are just as good as high end. You also try to encourage friends to take the step up. Knowing the prices of affordable high end and also NOT so affordable high end can make you sound like and elitist.

Fremer made the mistake of leaking that out in a public place, his column. Wek have beaten the sufficiently now, don't you think?

I eluded to all this in post #125

Yeah, my Stratos amp is really good. But when compared to the detail and separation of my Counterpoint, there is really no comparison.

I have been enjoying all the threads over at AK from the multitude of Vintage Receiver collectors who scoff at anything newer or separates in general.

I know the build quality was better then, and the transformers more robust and they didn't mess with RMS and other specs, but I highly doubt that an old Sansui Receiver is going to sound as good as my CP.

[frenchmon]

I eluded to all this in post #125

Yeah, my Stratos amp is really good. But when compared to the detail and separation of my Counterpoint, there is really no comparison.

I have been enjoying all the threads over at AK from the multitude of Vintage Receiver collectors who scoff at anything newer or separates in general.

I know the build quality was better then, and the transformers more robust and they didn't mess with RMS and other specs, but I highly doubt that an old Sansui Receiver is going to sound as good as my CP.

Just to poke fun Hyfi...I betcha my vinyl rig does?

PS I still have that Stratos on my short list, but the comparison makes me have doubts. But considering the price difference I cant have it all in an amp.

[Hyfi]

Just to poke fun Hyfi...I betcha my vinyl rig does?

PS I still have that Stratos on my short list, but the comparison makes me have doubts. But considering the price difference I cant have it all in an amp.

For the money, the Stratos is actually the giant killer it was touted to be. The newer ones are even better. But, there is lots of refinement in an amp costing $3500 more when new.

If I did not have the CP fall into lap for next to nothing, the Stratos would always be in the system.

[Poultrygeist]

I read the posts at AK regarding the glorification of vintage tube gear and shake my head. I've had Dynaco ST70's, HH Scotts, Fisher 500's, Citations, Macintosh gear plus many others in my home for extended listening periods. Yet not one of those hallowed push pull amps of yesteryear IMO can compete with an inexpensive Chinese SET driving efficient speakers.

[Rmac58]

^ Agreed, my amp so far cost $20 a month.
The speakers, now, $11.57 a month.
CD player, $8.33 a month.

The enjoyment derived from the above, priceless.

[AltCode]

The enjoyment derived from the above, priceless.

Exactly my thoughts!

[RGA]

The Stratos is no giant killer - I kind of hate that term since it implies it beats Giants - yet the same poster will note a more expensive amp that the Stratos doesn't beat.

In almost every case some "relatively" inexpensive component will beat a more expensive component - depends what it is and what the speakers are.

Many speakers work better with lower power low Damping factor amps - a big brute will over control the drivers making them sound brittle and thin and edgy sounding. The amp may sound better on one speaker and terrible on the next.

I directly compare the Stratos to a $30 Sonic Impact 5 watt Class T amp and on the best sounding speakers in the guy's home the Class T amp sounded a lot better. No contest - it killed the Stratos at 100 times the price. However moving them over to the Gershman Acoustics X-1/Sub 1 speakers the Stratos completely destroyed the Sonic T amplifier.

To me Audyssey is a poor man's Bryston - Sounds about the same as Bryston for less money and also has a 20 year warranty (though it's not quite as good when you read the details). The warranty is only transferable once and only if you kept the registration card. Bryston warranties the amp based on the serial number whether you're the first or 200th owner makes no difference. Unless Bryston changed their policy that is.

[Rmac58]

Exactly my thoughts!

Great minds think alike!

[Poultrygeist]

I get my kicks from great sound on the cheap. For me it's not about how much my gear costs it's about how little it cost. I grew up under depression era parents and other than a house have never financed anything in my life ( not even a car ). Valuing my gear in terms of a monthly payment is unfathomable.

Nothing is worse to me than dropping a few grand on what turns out to be a mistake. But of course one doesn't know it's a mistake unless they someday realize they've been traveling the wrong road where more is better, complex beats simple, and price dictates SQ.

"The biggest confirmation of this is reports from audiophiles who used to have several hundred watts and many thousands of dollars invested in show winning audio gear, but now report that even a good 2 watt SET on efficient speakers has better dynamics and weight which they find simply amazing. If you've ever observed how audiophiles rotate through audio gear during their lifetime you might also find it interesting that the ones who finally land on SET and a simple pair of efficient speakers seldom find anything they like better". - Steve Deckert

[Rmac58]

The dollar figures listed are to simply put things into perspective. As mentioned, many folks now have cell phone plans, among other monthly costs. So in an attempt to put a dollar figure on musical enjoyment, I posted.

Congrats on not financing anything, well done.

I paid out of pocket, without financing, all of the above equipment.

When buying a home, I didn't have $65,000 laying around.

[Hyfi]

The dollar figures listed are to simply put things into perspective. As mentioned, many folks now have cell phone plans, among other monthly costs. So in an attempt to put a dollar figure on musical enjoyment, I posted.

Congrats on not financing anything, well done.

I paid out of pocket, without financing, all of the above equipment.

When buying a home, I didn't have $65,000 laying around.

Same here.

The only thing I ever financed and paid interest on was my mortgage, which I paid off in 10 years by sending 5 principle payments per month.

I have bought every car I ever owned with cash and everything else I own. If I don't have the cash to buy it, I don't get it.

I have used delayed payment financing but again, always paid it off in full before interest kicks in.

I am not the best with woodwork and I suck with electronics so I don't have a problem buying new gear and paying others for what they do good. In reality, aside from the repair cost, the Counterpoint amp cost me about $75. I put $200 into it for repair and re-tubing.

If people who have an iPhone, iPad, cable, fios, dish and whatever choose to spend their money on that, it's their choice obviously. I save my money in all those areas so I can buy nice gear when I want to.

[02audionoob]

I go thrifty, but not cheap, and never finance anything except the house. My integrated had a list price of $4k, but I bought it used. I wrote a check for my car and had to write rather small to get the amount to fit on those little personal checks.

[Poultrygeist]

I put everything on a charge card and pay it off every month. Rewards points get me two plane tickets yearly anywhere in lower 48. Free is below cheap.

[Hyfi]

I put everything on a charge card and pay it off every month. Rewards points get me two plane tickets yearly anywhere in lower 48. Free is below cheap.

I should have said the same. I do use a card but only if I can pay it off at the end of the month. I have only paid interest on a card 1 time in 25 years and it was because I transposed a number when paying the bill.

Discover has given me thousands in cash back that is NOT already my own money.