Dirty Little Secrets

[JSE]

Can you prove that? Got any quotes from 1978 to support your claim?

You know, it really pisses me off when people disagree with me when "I KNOW" it to be so. I read it in JUGS back in 87. Proof enough? I thought so!

Man, the nerve of some people!

JSE

[melvin walker]

Well Melvin, there is a difference between tape, and digital. I can listen to a CD in the house, car, or burn it onto an IPOD. If I don't compress it, there is no difference in the format chosen. The kicker is, I can listen to it THOUSANDS of times, without any degradation of the format itself.

Listen to a tape more than a handful to times, and there is noticable difference in quality. Listen over 25 times, and the sound can become muddy, fade in and out, and warble. Not to mention that heads get dirty, tapes break, and there isn't any practical way to go from the first song, to the last, to the middle, and then back again.

Tapes had their time in the sun. It has now set, and it is foolish to argue as though tape is going to make a roaring comeback.

It like arguing who makes the best buggy whip. It may be academic, but in the end completely useless. It doesn't forward A/V, nor increase our regard for your opinion.

Tape is still used where editing is a most. Your reruns on television is tape. You may play a song a thousand times , was it recorded on high end equipment ? or average equipment.
If it was recorded on average audio equipment than you have just listened to a recording a thousand times and the sound is average.

If the tape is taken care of , it can last for years. and if it is recorded on high end equipment and played back on high end equipment I see no reason why the sound should not be excellent.
The problem is what is the quality of the audio gear that is being used. Remember what Mr. Marcus eluded to , a 15 year old Porsche is a $80,000 car , the manufacturer was able to put excellent parts in the car because he could charge $80,000 !
The Toyota had to cut corners , he could not put quality parts in the car it would have increased the price and no one is going to spend $80,000 for a Toyota.
While new it is still not as well made nor can it perform as well as a Porsche.

In audio it is no different , you may play a song on your iPOD a thousand times , but on what kind of audio equipment did you use to record that song.?

[bobsticks]

It's probably worth noting that digital is "transfered" and not recorded. This can be done at a completely lossless rate...again and again and again. There is no differential in the particular "recording" process to which you refer.

And, Mr. Marcus is still a fool.

[Rich-n-Texas]

You know, it really pisses me off when people disagree with me when "I KNOW" it to be so. I read it in JUGS back in 87. Proof enough? I thought so!

Man, the nerve of some people!

JSE

I still have that issue!!!

[Rich-n-Texas]

To what loose language are you referring Mel? Or, are you utilizing the inference and assumption that you ask us not to use when reviewing your posts...

By the bye, my diplomacy and etiquette skills are quite refined, at least to the point that they've helped me land a professional position affording me the opportunity to enjoy some of the very equipment about which you opine. Kinda scary isn't it, you and I could show up at the same social gathering...you with your rudy-poo auto luminaries and me with your grand-daughter...I'll try and mind my tongue in your august presence.

Wait a minute! That was a line by Moe on the Three Stooges when the professors (I think one professor's name was Dr. Melvin Walker) tried to make them into the Hoy-pulloy. Maybe that party was at Melvin's house. The guests looked like a bunch of pompous a$$es ya know?

[bobsticks]

Wait a minute! That was a line by Moe on the Three Stooges when the professors (I think one professor's name was Dr. Melvin Walker) tried to make them into the Hoy-pulloy. Maybe that party was at Melvin's house. The guests looked like a bunch of pompous a$$es ya know?

LOL, that sounds like my kinda gig, mang...

You're bordering on green chicklet territory there, old sport.

[Ajani]

It's interesting how so many of us are quick to point out that Cassettes are obsolete, as we brush the dust of our vinyl collection...

We audiophiles are a weird bunch....

[Rich-n-Texas]

You're bordering on green chicklet territory there, old sport.

Man, this just ain't my day.

[melvin walker]

Mr. Marcus is a fool for answering that question with incomplete data. Is it a 15 year old car that has sat in a museum or one that has been driven 30,000 miles a year or has it been crashed? Simply making a purchase of anything due to it's name is snobbish at best.

Also, Mistah Hi-Society it's Coco Chanel. The Coco Channel is broadcast out of the Neverland Ranch by chimpanzees.

It's call reputation., Porsche has a sterling reputation when it comes to building outstanding high performance cars for the streets and the race track. Neiman Marcus is one of the finest high end stores in America. Chanel products is world renown.

Mr. Marcus in his book "The quest for the Best " comes up with conclusions about the future of quality products and whether or not a consumer should have to settle for inferior products.
We all make purchases due to name identification. Unless you have been living in a cave for the last 50 years , you should know the difference between a Porsche and a Toyota
One is for those who care about the best the other is for those who don't.
One man's opinion.

[Mr Peabody]

Melvin, Toyota doesn't cost $80k but they have become synonomous with quality. The stories got confusing, they either did, or almost, surpass GM as #1 in the U.S. in sales. Maybe that's what blurrs the contrast in your scenario, except for price.

Another good auto scenario is the "big 3" U.S. auto makers are hurting bad right now and it's not all labor cost, it's their failure to change with the times.

[bobsticks]

It's call reputation., Porsche has a sterling reputation when it comes to building outstanding high performance cars for the streets and the race track. Neiman Marcus is one of the finest high end stores in America. Chanel products is world renown.

Mr. Marcus in his book "The quest for the Best " comes up with conclusions about the future of quality products and whether or not a consumer should have to settle for inferior products.
We all make purchases due to name identification. Unless you have been living in a cave for the last 50 years , you should know the difference between a Porsche and a Toyota
One is for those who care about the best the other is for those who don't.
One man's opinion.

Melvin sometimes I think you pick these examples for pure provocation potential. Just as I wouldn't let my plumber even attempt to fix me a gourmet meal I wouldn't let a haberdasher pick my vehicle. He's uninformed.

The 928 wasn't even "the best" during it's time, much less now. Regardless of its pricetag it was mired with problems and fifteen years later it isn't going to be any better. It's not a delicate red, it doesn't improve with age. It wasn't even "good" by modern standards unless your definition of "best" is unwieldy, ugly, bulbous, creaking, groaning, prone to stalling, prone to throwing rods and prone to spending half its life in the shop. How is something that spends half its life under maintenance the "best"?

I was priveledged enough to ride in an Aston Martin Vantage once. An amazing vehicle with a menacing growl upon ignition that literally raored Ferraris into submission. On the other hand, the Lagonda was a piece of junk. It was, and is if any are still driveable, the 928 of of Aston Martin. I knew a mechanic that put a kid through college on one sophist's Lagonda. How is that the best?



Maybe if I buy a Fiero and scotch tape a 914 emblem on the hood I'll have the second-greatest, since "best" seems to be a function of q rating.

[pixelthis]

Tape is still used where editing is a most. Your reruns on television is tape. You may play a song a thousand times , was it recorded on high end equipment ? or average equipment.
If it was recorded on average audio equipment than you have just listened to a recording a thousand times and the sound is average.

If the tape is taken care of , it can last for years. and if it is recorded on high end equipment and played back on high end equipment I see no reason why the sound should not be excellent.
The problem is what is the quality of the audio gear that is being used. Remember what Mr. Marcus eluded to , a 15 year old Porsche is a $80,000 car , the manufacturer was able to put excellent parts in the car because he could charge $80,000 !
The Toyota had to cut corners , he could not put quality parts in the car it would have increased the price and no one is going to spend $80,000 for a Toyota.
While new it is still not as well made nor can it perform as well as a Porsche.

In audio it is no different , you may play a song on your iPOD a thousand times , but on what kind of audio equipment did you use to record that song.?

TAPE ISNT USED anymore except where absolutely nessesary.
Its a digital world, and a lot of content is on hard drive, optical disc, etc.
Just because a product started out on "tape" doesnt mean it stays there.
I doubt if you ever watch anything on television that comes from a "tape"
As a matter of fact most TV shows were FILMED .
This is why they can offer a HD version of the original Star Ttek, the original episodes were filmed, and film is essentially HD in quality.
And the primary reason german cars cost so much is marketing and labor costs.
In germany a BMW is akin to a pontiac , they charge so much for one because they know they can.
Toyota doesnt "cut corners", I have a friend who put 450,000 miles on a toyota pickup truck without opening the motor once, this truck didnt cost ten grand.


It doesnt matter what a product costs, that is totally irrelevant.
What matters is what people are willing to pay, if it costs more to make than people will pay, you're out of business.
Desani and AQUAFINA were TAP water, probably not as good as tap water, coca-cola has finally admitted, and it is STILL selling for a bucck fifty and up a bottle

[emaidel]

Oh well, I guess trying to bring this thread back on topic is a hopeless cause. That being thte case, I have a couple of requests for two posters: first, for Pixelthis, please STOP USING CAPS in your threads. Using caps is the internet equivalent of shouting, and is considered rude.

Next, to "our" dear friend Melvin, would you please, please, please try to use proper spelling and grammar? In older posts, several members repeatedly pointed out your nonstop mistakes, yet you ignored all of those posts and continued to write badly. Totally irrespective of what it is you wish to say, you could say it a whole helluva lot better if you just spent a moment or two on using proper English.

[kexodusc]

I know I haven't been 'round these parts much lateley, but who in the blue hell is Melvin and why does Bobby Styxx want to date his granddaughter?

[emaidel]

I know I haven't been 'round these parts much lateley, but who in the blue hell is Melvin and why does Bobby Styxx want to date his granddaughter?

I can't answer the second part of your question, but as to "Who in the blue hell is Melvin?" I suspect many of us here might wish to ask the same question. He seemed to come out of the blue and does little other than post nostalgic posts about how wonderful the industry was up until the end of the 1960's. Then, all went to hell in a handbasket, and the Japanese (who make only "junk" according to him) put all the American companies out of business and ruined an otherwise fine industry. Absolutely nothing of any worth seems to have been made since then, at least according to Melvin.

He also constantly makes comparisons between German and Japanese or American cars, placing the German cars on platforms as if they never had any peers, and thoroughly trashes Lexus and Corvette automobiles.

Just look back on this thread and elsewhere on AR. You'll find lots of stuff from this guy.

[Ajani]

I can't answer the second part of your question, but as to "Who in the blue hell is Melvin?" I suspect many of us here might wish to ask the same question. He seemed to come out of the blue and does little other than post nostalgic posts about how wonderful the industry was up until the end of the 1960's. Then, all went to hell in a handbasket, and the Japanese (who make only "junk" according to him) put all the American companies out of business and ruined an otherwise fine industry. Absolutely nothing of any worth seems to have been made since then, at least according to Melvin.

He also constantly makes comparisons between German and Japanese or American cars, placing the German cars on platforms as if they never had any peers, and thoroughly trashes Lexus and Corvette automobiles.

Just look back on this thread and elsewhere on AR. You'll find lots of stuff from this guy.

Yep, that sounds like a pretty apt description of Melvin....

[Luvin Da Blues]

Absolutely nothing of any worth seems to have been made since then, at least according to Melvin.

LOL..just like his posts...absolutely nothing of any worth.

EDIT: Ok, it is good for entertainment and wasting time.

[GMichael]

I know I haven't been 'round these parts much lateley, but who in the blue hell is Melvin and why does Bobby Styxx want to date his granddaughter?

You don't really want to know. Trust me.

Good to see you around. And good luck making sense of what's going on here these days.

[Groundbeef]

Another of my favorite hobbies is springing incredibly offensive jokes upon unsuspecting friends.

Heres one to try and get the topic back around.

A man boards a plane, and is seated next to an incredibly striking woman. Realizing that he has no chance in hell of actually snaring a catch such as her, he decides to ignore her.

However, after a time, he notices she is reading a rather 'adult' book, and works up the nerve to talk to her. He asks what she is reading, and after much hesitation she replies its a self help sex book. She then continues on to relate several poor encounters with strangers in the past, and how she has FINALLY solved her problems.

"How?" the man asks? Well, she replies in the book it suggests that she concentrate either on Indian Lovers, as they are commanding in the bed, or with Jewish Lovers, as they concentrate on pleasing their lovers. The man ponders this for a few moments, and then turns silent. After a minute he looks back, and asks her name. She replies "Jane", and then asks what his name is.

Without hesitation he replies "Tonto Berkowitz".

[SlumpBuster]

Melvin's supadupafly Porsche:

[basite]

Do a little research , review some of the past issues of Audio , High Fidelity , High Fidelity Stereo Review and Stereohile.magazines And you will find that Marantz generally recieved higher
test reviews than Mc.Intosh. Marantz generally was more expensive. Mack never made an amp equal to the Model 9's nor a tuner equal to the 10B Mack MC240 was rated lower than Marantz's 8B.

The Mack 60's was excellent power amps and so was the Mack MC75's. The MC275
while an excellent amp generally received average reviews.
The Marantz Model 8B also was highly regarded by audiophiles who had efficient speakers, such as horns are bass reflex enclosures.

As for as argue audiophiles as hobbyist , much as car hobbyist did have friendly debates as which
was which was the best , Mack or Marantz , Lansing or Bozak , Thorens or Fairchild.
Same as chevvy vs Ford , , Benz vs BMW , Corvette vs Cobra and Cadillac vs Lincoln.
I might add they did not use loose language !
Times have changed.

yes, and there you go again braggin about the past.

stop doing that. We live now, not 50 years ago. look what is now, and what will come in the future.

Now Mcintosh is clearly better than Marantz, and the few high end pieces Marantz still makes are outperformed by similarily priced Mcintosh gear. And how much reviews were made is not a good argument.

[Ajani]

yes, and there you go again braggin about the past.

stop doing that. We live now, not 50 years ago. look what is now, and what will come in the future.

I'll agree with that point...

Now Mcintosh is clearly better than Marantz, and the few high end pieces Marantz still makes are outperformed by similarily priced Mcintosh gear. And how much reviews were made is not a good argument.

Not so sure about this one though... while Mcintosh has focused solely on high end gear, Marantz has launched a full line of critically acclaimed gear from a $300 CD Player to a $7K one... from $600 amps to a $24K preamp + 2 monoblocks combo....... so I'm not sure whether Mcintosh is clearly better now....

[basite]

Not so sure about this one though... while Mcintosh has focused solely on high end gear, Marantz has launched a full line of critically acclaimed gear from a $300 CD Player to a $7K one... from $600 amps to a $24K preamp + 2 monoblocks combo....... so I'm not sure whether Mcintosh is clearly better now....

take the $24k pre and compare them to $24k mcintosh pre, you'll get their C1000C and C1000T (or P) combo for that...

their high end gear was critticaly acclaimed, but there is other gear that outperforms it that costs about the same.

[melvin walker]

yes, and there you go again braggin about the past.

stop doing that. We live now, not 50 years ago. look what is now, and what will come in the future.

Now Mcintosh is clearly better than Marantz, and the few high end pieces Marantz still makes are outperformed by similarily priced Mcintosh gear. And how much reviews were made is not a good argument.

Why do they teach history in schools. Reading your post I now understand why most Europeans are more aware of American history than Americans.
Small wonder that in a New York Times article , most young Americans thought that Japan was one of our allies in World War Two !

Why not know the history of two revered audio company ? Do you ever watch the History Channel ? History International ? How about the Discovery channel ?
Some of the material is 100 years old and older.

Small wonder an American politician can tell many young Americans anything , how would they know the difference.
Magazine reviews gives the interested consumer an opportunity to read about a test report
on an item they might buy. An informed consumer is a happy consumer.
Consumers Report is an example of a consumer based magazine informing the public through testing , therefor helping the consumer make an informed decision.

Is that bragging ? to compare two outstanding audio companies when they set a standard of excellence in audio equipment. Should you watch the History Channel , you see comparisons made between World War Two fighter planes, Tanks , rifles , even leaders.
Judging by your post that would not interest you. Am I right ?

[Rich-n-Texas]

LOL..just like his posts...absolutely nothing of any worth.

EDIT: Ok, it is good for entertainment and wasting time.

Good job LDB. Finally getting your feet wet I see.