'Tis better to have loved Lost than never to have loved at all....

[ForeverAutumn]

4. Introduced all the taillies so they'd have more folks to murder.

I'd be watching my back if I were Bernard. He's the last Tailie left.

[GMichael]

When Lockie took that drug and went into a tent a few weeks back, he had flashes of the airport before they all left. Wasn't Benry one of the security guards at the airport.

[Kam]

GM - yep he was. he was frisking jack at a security checkpoint in the flashback.

RL - i saw the smoke flash in the trees behind eko as he was making his way towards the plane, before he made it to the water and before his first visions, which is what made me think that the smoke-monster IS the visions that everyone is seeing.

which brings up another thought... so far when we've seen the smoke monster in the shape of the smoke monster, it sounds mechanical and kinda like a printer. could the #'s control the smoke monster?

FA - i am loving this new rift (real or not) within the others and pitting Juliet against Benry with jack being the catalyst. or they could still all be using him for the same purpose.

so which station is left to be found where Mr. Pirate is? We've seen:
1- the swan
2 - the pearl
3 - the medical one
4- the hydra
5 - the tailies hatch
6 - ? we havent seen this one yet right?

So if the glass eye was found in the tailies hatch, could Mr. Pirate have been there the whole time? technically could be any hatch other than The Swan. And speaking of which, if the 'release' is now destroyed, what happens to that build up (magnetic, electro, nuclear, etc, whatever) every 108 minutes? isn't it still happening and still needing to be released or did the failsafe destroy the whole 'build up' that would needed to be released in the first place? in which case... why not just turn the fail safe key and never have to worry about ANYthing building up to be released?

and again, what's with the freakin' commercial so fast! does the show really move that fast or do commercials come more often? i gotta time it, it better not be every 8 minutes....

[ForeverAutumn]

Those commercials are brutal! We went to a bar to watch the hockey game last night so I watched Lost later. I didn't make note of what time I started watching it, but I figured that after fast forwarding throught the "previously on Lost" bit and the commercials, it felt like I was left with 35 - 40 minutes tops. I should watch it again and time it.

so which station is left to be found where Mr. Pirate is? We've seen:
1- the swan
2 - the pearl
3 - the medical one
4- the hydra
5 - the tailies hatch
6 - ? we havent seen this one yet right?

I assumed that the ? and the pearl were the same, since it was the ? burned into the ground that led Locke and Ecko to the Pearl in the first place.

So if the glass eye was found in the tailies hatch, could Mr. Pirate have been there the whole time? technically could be any hatch other than The Swan.

The Tailies hatch was pretty small. I suppose he could have been hidden behind a wall or something. Or, maybe that fake hatch that Sayid found in the Others fake village (where they took Michael) wasn't fake at all...

It's all very intriguing! "I guess he'll be expecting us".

And speaking of which, if the 'release' is now destroyed, what happens to that build up (magnetic, electro, nuclear, etc, whatever) every 108 minutes? isn't it still happening and still needing to be released or did the failsafe destroy the whole 'build up' that would needed to be released in the first place? in which case... why not just turn the fail safe key and never have to worry about ANYthing building up to be released?

The magnet was surrounded by a concrete casing. Someone was harnessing this magnetic power for some reason. My guess is that the build-up needed to be released from this casing. Once the hatch and the casing was blowed up, there is no longer any build-up to release. As for your question of why not just turn the fail safe key in the first place, I don't think that Desmond knew exactly what would happen if he turned the key. He thought that he was saving the world, remember?

Now, a new thought is forming as I wrote the last paragraph. Could the harnessed magnetic power have been providing some sort of electrical power to Othersville? Two weeks ago they made mention of all of their communication equipment being down. Could that be because they lost their power source when the hatch exploded? They obviously still have electricity, but maybe that was their link to the outside world.

[kexodusc]

Guys, was it just me, or was Benry a little...I dunno...submissive to Juliet? The whole flash carding Jack thing just isn't sitting well with me. Almost like they're testing his morals...a doctor is obligated to help a patient...he won't kill Benry. He can't.

Maybe I'm way off. But could Juliet be more than she appears to be?

[GMichael]

GM - yep he was. he was frisking jack at a security checkpoint in the flashback.
..

So where does he get off saying that a back surgen falling from the sky is proof of a God when he knew ahead of time that Jack was on the plane?

[Resident Loser]

Guys, was it just me, or was Benry a little...I dunno...submissive to Juliet? The whole flash carding Jack thing just isn't sitting well with me. Almost like they're testing his morals...a doctor is obligated to help a patient...he won't kill Benry. He can't.

Maybe I'm way off. But could Juliet be more than she appears to be?

...the whole subterranean-homesick-Juliet-bit stinks on ice...perhaps it's some new ruse or at least a way to get back in Benry's good graces...after all, Benry seemed a little more than ticked at her when he thought she deliberately showed Jack the X-rays...

jimHJJ(...cloaks and daggers, such intrigue...)

[Kam]

So where does he get off saying that a back surgen falling from the sky is proof of a God when he knew ahead of time that Jack was on the plane?

well i think locke's flashback about the airport with boone pushing him around wasnt a real flashback but an imaginary dream sequence or "vision" from the island or whatever he was smoking. showing the relations of different people and stuff, like they showed hurley behind the counter as a tickettaker for Oceanic.

[topspeed]

I don't trust either Juliet or Benry. With the way Benry plays with your head, there's an excellent chance that he doesn't have a tumor at all, and this whole thing is a set-up to "break down" Jack, just as he said earlier. The Other's always have a plan. Always.

I wonder what the meaning of the viking funeral was? Everyone knew they were going to set it afire. The question is whether or not there is some social significance to be gleaned from the act. There are plenty of ways to dispose of the departed, (buried, cremated, shot out of a photon torpedo...) but a viking funeral is beyond convention.

I can't believe they killed Eko. That sucks. I mean it really, really sucks! He was one of my favorite characters. I did like the closing shot of him walking with his brother as kids again. This was a time when they were both innocent, both without sin, before the world took them on separate paths. Whether or not other's thought Eko was good or bad, I think Eko made it pretty clear that he considered himself bad, justifiably or not. Really, the smoke monster released him of his anguish and returned him to a state of innocence.

We definitely need to see more of this new girl, btw

[ForeverAutumn]

I'm going to have to go back and watch my tape. I don't recall these flashes of Ecko and his brother playing ball or a closing shot of them walking together.

I was flipping channels to get the weather earlier and I saw Ecko on Regis and Kelly so I stopped there. I caught about the last 10 seconds of the interview and they were wishing him luck on his next project which has been in the development stage for 5 years and, I think that I heard them say, he's directing. Don't know what the project is, but it sounds like he may have asked to be written off the show to move ahead with this other project.

[ForeverAutumn]

Guys, was it just me, or was Benry a little...I dunno...submissive to Juliet? The whole flash carding Jack thing just isn't sitting well with me. Almost like they're testing his morals...a doctor is obligated to help a patient...he won't kill Benry. He can't.

Maybe there's more to Jack's back story than we know and there's good reason for Benry and Juliet to question his medical morals. Now wouldn't that be interesting.

Maybe I'm way off. But could Juliet be more than she appears to be?

I'd bet Kam's numbers toque on it.

[GMichael]

well i think locke's flashback about the airport with boone pushing him around wasnt a real flashback but an imaginary dream sequence or "vision" from the island or whatever he was smoking. showing the relations of different people and stuff, like they showed hurley behind the counter as a tickettaker for Oceanic.

Are you saying that drug induced illusions are not real and don't count? So half my life is a fake?

[ForeverAutumn]

Only half?

[Kam]

The "Fall" Finale:
"I Do"
Jack makes a decision regarding Ben's offer, Kate feels helpless when it looks like an angry Pickett is going to make good on his threat to kill Sawyer, and Locke discovers a hidden message that may guide him through the next steps of his journey to unlocking the secrets of the island.

Oooooooo i just got chills on that last part.

FA - on the jack's morals issue... i think it'd be a great turn to show the motivation behind his whole character's desire to "fix people" is because of something he did in his past where he either did NOT fix someone when he could have, or done something to deliberately hurt a patient. i wonder with the "i do" reference to the episode who will be the focus? maybe jack pre-marriage? who else is married on the island?
jin-sun, bernard-rose, kate-kam, nikki-kam... i think that's it right? although i'm sure the 'i do' will be another nice red-herring.

[ForeverAutumn]

One of my favourite Lost sites isn't operating anymore. I wonder what happened?

http://www.lostlinks.net/

[Groundbeef]

I liked Ecko, and am very suprised that they killed him. At this rate, there had better be another airplane crash to refill the roster.

I have a theory about why he was killed. I have a feeling that the Island is in some way a place to make peace with yourself, or your life. The black cloud is a manifestation of your failings/fears and cause for you to re-think your life.

Ecko felt that he had nothing to be forgivin for. Everything that he did in his life was calculated, and for HIS reasons. "I killed a man to save my brother" "I didn't confess for stealing food because my brother was hungry" "I killed the 3 men in the Church because they were stealing from it" The main theme was that perhaps society felt that he was a sinner and needed forgivness, but he didn't. This is why the island killed him. He would not bow to the greater power, and in fact rejected its "authority".

BTW all the Lost actors are tied to a 5 or 6 season contract. I wonder if ABC buys them out when they are killed. At least they would get a nice fat settlement check!

[Kam]

I have a theory about why he was killed. I have a feeling that the Island is in some way a place to make peace with yourself, or your life. The black cloud is a manifestation of your failings/fears and cause for you to re-think your life.

Ecko felt that he had nothing to be forgivin for. Everything that he did in his life was calculated, and for HIS reasons. "I killed a man to save my brother" "I didn't confess for stealing food because my brother was hungry" "I killed the 3 men in the Church because they were stealing from it" The main theme was that perhaps society felt that he was a sinner and needed forgivness, but he didn't. This is why the island killed him. He would not bow to the greater power, and in fact rejected its "authority".

so then shouldn't the island have left him alone because he had made peace with his past deeds? if the black cloud is a manifestation of his fears, (i.e that thematic element from the lil boy asking eko if he was a bad man) then he confronted that, and came to terms that he is NOT a bad man, but a good man who has done the things neccessary to survive. he has done bad things, but not as a bad man. so he had passed judgement on himself, and come to peace with his actions.

(just ruminating out loud here)
Now if the island is a greater authority and needs to be appeased regardless of coming to terms with yourself, then that would make sense with the island killing eko. but if the island represents "coming-to-peace-with-yourself", then it should have left him alone. the island can't have it both ways (i think) that the smoke represents coming to peace with yourself, but ONLY if that peace is also in line with the island's version of what IT thinks your peace should be?
in eko's case, the island wants eko to ask forgiveness for sins. Eko doesn't believe he has sinned. so the island kills him?
I think the smoke monster is malevolent in the sense that when you come close to terms with yourself, and perhaps piercing the secret of the island, it takes you out. Didnt the Others (i think? someone remember?) describe the monster as 'the islands defense mechanism'? (in the episode where michael is given back and the line-in-the-sand is drawn about side of the island). the island may not want you to be at peace with yourself, or at least not care about being at peace with yourself as long as you're not a threat to the island. i think when eko became at peace with himself, his next realization was to finish that church that he did still owe his brother. maybe the island didnt want a church built on it. didn't eko have a vision that led him away from building the church in the first place? (am confused).
ok... enough ramblings.

[kexodusc]

I think it's significant that Eko faced the smoke monster and died, whereas, Locke faced the smoke monster and lived...maybe Locke can control it or contain it...or he frightens it somehow?
Anyone else fight Smokey?

[Kam]

I think it's significant that Eko faced the smoke monster and died, whereas, Locke faced the smoke monster and lived...maybe Locke can control it or contain it...or he frightens it somehow?
Anyone else fight Smokey?

BUT... eko did face the smoke monster before and lived. this time he died. what changed from that first meeting to now?

[Worf101]

BUT... eko did face the smoke monster before and lived. this time he died. what changed from that first meeting to now?

The first time Eko faced the cloud he was whole, aware and unafraid. He looked it down, face to face and it left. I think he also hadn't been asked the question yet. He'd asked forgiveness of Benry for killing his people and was trying to live a good life at the time. When he faced it this time he was unrepentant and tired of being judged by others who never imagine the trials he'd faced.

Da Worfster

[Kam]

The first time Eko faced the cloud he was whole, aware and unafraid. He looked it down, face to face and it left. I think he also hadn't been asked the question yet. He'd asked forgiveness of Benry for killing his people and was trying to live a good life at the time. When he faced it this time he was unrepentant and tired of being judged by others who never imagine the trials he'd faced.

Da Worfster

ok so now i'm flipflopping (maybe) again. At first i thought that Eko was in the same position as before, but you're right, he did ask Benry for forgiveness for killing those Others that first night on the beach. He very well was still within his rights to protect himself and his fellow Tailies, but he still did a bad act (as a good man) and asked for forgiveness for that act. I guess its a nice philosophical debate about asking forgiveness for bad acts even if done with all the best intentions. violence is still violence, even if done to protect yourself, an "evil" is committed and remorse should (i think) be shown. Eko showed remorse and compassion for the evil he had done, understanding that while neccessary, it was still a horrible thing to do(the 40 days of silence). But when confronted about the evil in his past, he wasn't repentant about it. Yes it was probably 100 times more neccessary, he did save his brother's life (for the time being) by taking on the horrors he wanted to save his brother from, but while he had no reason to be ashamed of those acts, there was still reason to be remorsefull for them. maybe that's what the island was trying to tell eko.
although... he did ask forgiveness specifically from who he thought was his brother, just as he specifically asked benry for forgiveness... and the island's response.. 'you don't think you're talking to your brother do you?' (or something to that effect). so... i dunno, maybe i'm flipflopping back again to the island needing to be appeased according to its own morals (if an island can have morals) rather than your own.

or maybe the smoke just felt like killing a dude. who knows.

[Kam]

One of my favourite Lost sites isn't operating anymore. I wonder what happened?

http://www.lostlinks.net/

holy minkey did you see this:

http://www.lostlinks.net/whispers.htm

This is some unbelievable detail that's gone into this, i had no idea any of that was going on during the sayid-benry interrogation scene. very interesting.

[GMichael]

holy minkey did you see this:

http://www.lostlinks.net/whispers.htm

This is some unbelievable detail that's gone into this, i had no idea any of that was going on during the sayid-benry interrogation scene. very interesting.

Is all this really going on? What kind of equipment are these nuts using to pull this much detail out of the sound tracks? Are any of our "family nuts" going to confirm some of this on their pro-type-equipment? (hint hint)

[Groundbeef]

although... he did ask forgiveness specifically from who he thought was his brother, just as he specifically asked benry for forgiveness... and the island's response.. 'you don't think you're talking to your brother do you?' (or something to that effect). so... i dunno, maybe i'm flipflopping back again to the island needing to be appeased according to its own morals (if an island can have morals) rather than your own.

or maybe the smoke just felt like killing a dude. who knows.

I think that he did NOT ask his brother for forgivness. I will give it another watch, but I am sure he specifically (sp) said "I ask for NO forgivness...." and then explained that he was not in need of forgivness for anything that he had done. Then he referenced the killing he did to save his brother, THEN his "brother" asked why he was speaking to him as though he WAS his brother. (This indicated that he was talking to something/one other than his brother).

This is what pissed the island off I think. For whatever reason, I think that it was slighted that he was not bowing to its pressures.

As far as Locke goes, he may have seen the light, but the cloud didn't give him up willingly. Remember, he was being sucked down the hole and Jack or someone threw down either a grenade, or fire and made it release Locke. He may very well have been seeing the light, but I have no doubt that it was going to kill him except for the interference that the others in the group did.

[ForeverAutumn]

holy minkey did you see this:

http://www.lostlinks.net/whispers.htm

This is some unbelievable detail that's gone into this, i had no idea any of that was going on during the sayid-benry interrogation scene. very interesting.

Maybe I need better speakers, but all I can make out is noise. Nothing that even resembles words.