My apologies for being LOST, but now I'm found.

[kexodusc]

WOW!

Did anyone else notice how stupid Sawyer's attack plan on the sub was? Ok, Hurley, Sayid, Jin you all have guns so you're with me - Oh and Sun, you can stand with us weaponless and exposed, but try to look good.

At least Sayid redeemed himself in the end...

Here's a question I'm not sure has been asked - if Jack is the leading candidate to be Jacob's replacement - where was Jacob planning to go before he was stabbed and burned? Retirement?

[Worf101]

Hmmm... Learned a lot last night, lost a lot too (no pun intended).

1. Sayid, not so with as we thought.

2. Sawyer, first class feck up if ever we saw one. But that's how they drew him

3. "Sayid... there is no Sayid!" Nice tip of the hat to "Dog Soldiers" my fave werewolf movie.

4. So, as I said months ago what we have here is "The Sentinel" writ large. Kinda disappointing.

5. Did we need the Sun and Jin "Titanic" moment? The old ladies crying her eyes out and I"m laughin' doing my best Benny Hill imatation. "Rubbage" I cried aloud. "Rubbage!!!".

6. Condolences to all the male and female lovers of the bare chested, swarthy, muscled, dreamy eyed, butcher from Bhagdad. I dug him too.

Well, I'll leave now before F.A. and the other round up the posse, and warm up the tar and feathers.

Worf

[ForeverAutumn]

damn that sun-jin moment was heart wrenching.

In hindsight we probably should have seen it coming. The way that they were talking about their daughter.

Sun: She's with my mother.
Jin: I've seen pictures of her.

That's the kind of dialogue that this show uses to tie up loose ends before someone is killed. But killing them both off was just so far out there that it never even occured to me...even after the close call at the pylons during their reunion . But the way that they were killed off really was truly beautiful if you think of where their relationship started in S1 when Sun wanted to leave Jin (you're a cold beast, Worf).

And my Sayid is gone! My lovely, lovely torturer and tortured Sayid.

Nice tease by the writers to make us think that it was Kate who was going to bite the dust. First Widmore says she's expendable and then she gets shot. Yet she survives the whole thing...for now.

My prediction is that Kate and Sawyer are the next to go. Kate's gonna get killed doing something stupid and Saywer will die doing something heroic to save Jack.

[ForeverAutumn]

WOW!

Did anyone else notice how stupid Sawyer's attack plan on the sub was? Ok, Hurley, Sayid, Jin you all have guns so you're with me - Oh and Sun, you can stand with us weaponless and exposed, but try to look good.

Yeah, it was lame. Especially since he had no idea who else was on the sub and if anyone would be there who could actually drive the thing. But that's who Sawyer is. He's not the smartest bulb in the box, never has been. Sawyer acts on emotion. It's Jack who has the capacity to think things through...hence his comments about not dismantling the bomb. What I thought was interesting about that scene was Sawyer coming right out and telling Jack that he doesn't trust him.

At least Sayid redeemed himself in the end...

That kind of made me wonder whether Sayid was really a Zombie or just trying to play Locke all along; to gain Locke's trust and get on the inside so that when the time came he would have the knowledge he needed to fight back. A little secret agent work that he could have learned in the army.

Here's a question I'm not sure has been asked - if Jack is the leading candidate to be Jacob's replacement - where was Jacob planning to go before he was stabbed and burned? Retirement?

That's a very good question. Why does Jacob need a replacement in the first place? Maybe he knew that eventually the man in black would succeed in killing him. But then, what was Jacob going to do once he found his replacement. Hmmmmm.

[Worf101]

In hindsight we probably should have seen it coming. The way that they were talking about their daughter.

Sun: She's with my mother.
Jin: I've seen pictures of her.

That's the kind of dialogue that this show uses to tie up loose ends before someone is killed. But killing them both off was just so far out there that it never even occured to me...even after the close call at the pylons during their reunion . But the way that they were killed off really was truly beautiful if you think of where their relationship started in S1 when Sun wanted to leave Jin (you're a cold beast, Worf).
And my Sayid is gone! My lovely, lovely torturer and tortured Sayid.

Nice tease by the writers to make us think that it was Kate who was going to bite the dust. First Widmore says she's expendable and then she gets shot. Yet she survives the whole thing...for now.

My prediction is that Kate and Sawyer are the next to go. Kate's gonna get killed doing something stupid and Saywer will die doing something heroic to save Jack.

That's how I learned to deal with grief in the Service, laugh at it... spit in death's eye. I'm not a cold beast, just need a thicker shell than others.

Worf

[Kam]

In hindsight we probably should have seen it coming. The way that they were talking about their daughter.

Sun: She's with my mother.
Jin: I've seen pictures of her.

That's the kind of dialogue that this show uses to tie up loose ends before someone is killed. But killing them both off was just so far out there that it never even occured to me...even after the close call at the pylons during their reunion . But the way that they were killed off really was truly beautiful if you think of where their relationship started in S1 when Sun wanted to leave Jin (you're a cold beast, Worf).

And my Sayid is gone! My lovely, lovely torturer and tortured Sayid.

Nice tease by the writers to make us think that it was Kate who was going to bite the dust. First Widmore says she's expendable and then she gets shot. Yet she survives the whole thing...for now.

My prediction is that Kate and Sawyer are the next to go. Kate's gonna get killed doing something stupid and Saywer will die doing something heroic to save Jack.

yeah i figured the body count was going to have a steep up-tick by the end of the season, but still sucks to see 'em go. Which is a great testament to the series as a whole, with all the connections the audience makes with the characters and to see who you really care about. thinking kate might die really didn't effect me at all, but the second it became obvious that sun was trapped and jin was not going to leave her alone... BAM!! right in the emotional guts. although i'm sure it was a powerful moment for most people not named Worf, i do tend to get hit with those types of moments, they really resonate for me. Same when Sayid took the bomb and ran... BAM!! right in the emotiona guts.

but i'm a total fanboy of 'sacrifice moments' in movies. As an e.g., it gets me everytime even without knowing anything about the character, like in Air Force One, that pilot who swings his F16 into the missile to protect the plane... BAM!! right in the emotional guts. and actually that's the only thing i remember from that movie.

that being said, if kate sacrifices herself to save jack/sawyer/a coconut, and i don't get the BAM!! right in the emotional guts, that really means i don't like the character.

was nice seeing Bernard again.

[Kam]

That kind of made me wonder whether Sayid was really a Zombie or just trying to play Locke all along; to gain Locke's trust and get on the inside so that when the time came he would have the knowledge he needed to fight back. A little secret agent work that he could have learned in the army.

That's a very good question. Why does Jacob need a replacement in the first place? Maybe he knew that eventually the man in black would succeed in killing him. But then, what was Jacob going to do once he found his replacement. Hmmmmm.

i was thinking about that too, Sayid snapped into pretty stark lucidity at the end, where before he seemed to be dreamwalking a lot. i guess that'll be an unanswered question, but i like to think that when push came to shove, that 'darkness spreading to his heart' that Temple Leader dude talked about could not overcome his desire to protect his friends. so sayid was being overcome by whatever darkness Smokey/Island/Weird Whirlpool of Death brought him back to life with, but he held it off to save his friends.

and i'd like to bring back into evidence my selective memory of one of my predictions back in season two... and the scene of Locke teaching Walt about backgammon, it's about light and dark, and how i thought that was going to be the answer of Locke vs. Mr. Eko in the light vs. dark battle... so i was a lil off BUT... i don't want to take credit for figuring out everything, but i tewtelly figured out everything.

hehehehehe

[kexodusc]

The one spot of the show that really resonated with me was Hurley's display of emotion at the end...he was sad for Libby, but really, since then I don't think there's been a more calm, even-keeled play-the-hand-that's-dealt character on the show.

And does Jack lose his street-cred with Losties since he was completely wrong about the bomb going off? Man, that would have been a crappy way to go...

Here's the other logic flaw with that scene- IF Jack was right and the bomb wouldn't go off because of his belief that Evil Locke couldn't kill them, THEN Jack should have had no problem with Sawyer pulling the wires anyway!!!

[Kam]

The one spot of the show that really resonated with me was Hurley's display of emotion at the end...he was sad for Libby, but really, since then I don't think there's been a more calm, even-keeled play-the-hand-that's-dealt character on the show.

And does Jack lose his street-cred with Losties since he was completely wrong about the bomb going off? Man, that would have been a crappy way to go...

Here's the other logic flaw with that scene- IF Jack was right and the bomb wouldn't go off because of his belief that Evil Locke couldn't kill them, THEN Jack should have had no problem with Sawyer pulling the wires anyway!!!

i thought the logic worked in favor of Jack. that if they did nothing to the bomb, that is, the bomb was left the way Locke put it in his bag, then nothing would happen. Just like the fuse going out of the dynamite at the Black Rock with Richard. BUT, if they tampered with it, if they did something to effect it themselves, then that is what would cause it to explode. Basically the ongoing themes of belief/faith/science/ etc.

If they believed in Jack (and so the power of jacob/the island) then by leaving the bomb alone, nothing would happen to them. But since sawyer tampered with it, that is what caused it to go off.

that was my take on it at least.

(edit - oh yeah, and Hurley's break down at the end was really powerful. kate's ... eh, she cries a lot so didn't effect me. but you're right, for hurley to break down really hits ya hard.)

[ForeverAutumn]

And does Jack lose his street-cred with Losties since he was completely wrong about the bomb going off? Man, that would have been a crappy way to go...

I agree with Kam. If Sawyer had trusted Jack and left the bomb alone then they would have been fine. The bomb as it was set by Locke couldn't hurt them. When Sawyer didn't trust Jack and he pulled the wires then it was Sawyer's action, and not Locke's, that set the chain of events that led to the bomb going off.

Locke can't kill them, but they can kill each other. That's what Locke was hoping for.

[Kam]

I agree with Kam. If Sawyer had trusted Jack and left the bomb alone then they would have been fine. The bomb as it was set by Locke couldn't hurt them. When Sawyer didn't trust Jack and he pulled the wires then it was Sawyer's action, and not Locke's, that set the chain of events that led to the bomb going off.

Locke can't kill them, but they can kill each other. That's what Locke was hoping for.

I think Locke can't kill anyone who is still a Candidate. he has to have someone else do it for him. Just like he couldn't kill Jacob, but got Ben to do it, which might be the "loophole" that Jacob was talking about, perhaps?

I guess the balance of the island is Smokey and Jacob can't harm each other, but can do so through the actions of others with 'free will' or the choice to do so.

[kexodusc]

Ahh...very plausible, and I agree with those assessments. Makes sense, and Jack did say that he was hoping they'd kill each other.

So, does Locke need to collect the bodies to avatar himself off the island?

[ForeverAutumn]

So, does Locke need to collect the bodies to avatar himself off the island?

That's going to be difficult with three of them floating at the bottom of the ocean.

I want to know how Locke knew that the Sub had sunk and that not everyone was dead.

[ForeverAutumn]

I just read that the finale is now 2.5 hours long! I hope it's not just an extra half hour of commercials.

[Kam]

I just read that the finale is now 2.5 hours long! I hope it's not just an extra half hour of commercials.

it'll be 30 minutes of Sawyer and Hurley on a small skiff paddling in the ocean and the repeated dialogue of:
Hurley: "Are we there yet?"
Sawyer: "No."
Hurley: "Are we there yet?"
Sawyer: "No."
Hurley: "Are we there yet?"
Sawyer: "No."
Hurley: "Are we there yet?"
Sawyer: "No."

[Groundbeef]

That's going to be difficult with three of them floating at the bottom of the ocean.

I want to know how Locke knew that the Sub had sunk and that not everyone was dead.

I'm thinking he would have taken on some sort of new powerful shape or something. But because whatever he was expecting to happen didn't by default he knew that something had gone arwy. (That's a guess on my part).

[Kam]

I'm thinking he would have taken on some sort of new powerful shape or something. But because whatever he was expecting to happen didn't by default he knew that something had gone arwy. (That's a guess on my part).

i figured he has some connections with the Island so has a general sense of what is going on around the place, so his 'smokey sense' tingled and told him that the sub blew up under the water but that people escaped.

[Groundbeef]

i figured he has some connections with the Island so has a general sense of what is going on around the place, so his 'smokey sense' tingled and told him that the sub blew up under the water but that people escaped.

I just watched it again last night, as my wife hadn't seen it yet. At the end, I think I have a better feeling now for Locke. I don't think he knows that ANYONE survived the sub sinking!

I think he was referring to Desmond who is still alive. Locke knows he has to go as well. Thats what I think he was (Locke) referring to when he said he had to finish what he started.

[Kam]

I just watched it again last night, as my wife hadn't seen it yet. At the end, I think I have a better feeling now for Locke. I don't think he knows that ANYONE survived the sub sinking!

I think he was referring to Desmond who is still alive. Locke knows he has to go as well. Thats what I think he was (Locke) referring to when he said he had to finish what he started.

ahhh interesting... so the 'but they're not all dead yet' quote he meant for everyone else left on the island. maybe that's the loophole? if every candidate kills every other candidate, he is set free?

[Groundbeef]

ahhh interesting... so the 'but they're not all dead yet' quote he meant for everyone else left on the island. maybe that's the loophole? if every candidate kills every other candidate, he is set free?

Maybe. Next week looks good. The old 'Black hat vs White hat' is going down at the OK 'Lost' Corral.

[ForeverAutumn]

Holy crap my head is spinning. Adam and Eve go back to Season one. So they really did have the story planned out from the beginning.

So, was that Locke with Jack and Kate in the cave or was it really Smokey?

[kexodusc]

There's still a lot of holy **** moments...right up to the end.

I've forced myself to accept that the ending will not answer everything - part of the fun after the show ends will be all the continued theorizing.

And ol' Smokey is really a tragic character after all.

[Groundbeef]

Holy crap my head is spinning. Adam and Eve go back to Season one. So they really did have the story planned out from the beginning.

So, was that Locke with Jack and Kate in the cave or was it really Smokey?

Locke. Remember Benry had to kill him (strangle). Smokey took over the body when it was returned in the casket on the beach. In my opinion.

Great story.

[kexodusc]

Ok - Jacob throws Smokey in the stream, he gets zapped by the purty lights, and he turns into Smokey the Magic Death Monster...
But Locke (real Locke) spins the wheel o' light, gets zapped by the rays and wakes up in the desert...

[ForeverAutumn]

I agree with that now that I've had more time to think about it. But I think that Smokey had designs on Locke right from the beginning. Since he was a kid he's been a game player; a strategist. He set his focus on Locke early on. He had to plan the steps towards his Loophole and he recognized that Locke was a "sucker" for the Island's power. Smokey knew that he could use that to his advantage.

One of the things that I'm going to look for when I rewatch the whole series is how Smokey might have influenced Locke and the desicions that Locke made early on.