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Thread: In The Heat of The Night

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    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    In The Heat of The Night

    Looking at this 1967 film with today's prespective which deal with a black detective from north helping out with a southern police chief to solve a crime, it remind us that we have come a long way in dealing with racial stereo types.

    Movie when was releaseed in '67 caused a sensation as USA was in grip of civil right movement. It won five academy awards including the 1967 award for Best Picture.Although it might be slightly dated today, but there is no denying its powerfull message about racial equality, or lack there of.

    Although Sidney Poitier put in a fine performance, this movie belong to his co-star Rod Steiger as town police chief. He have to walk a fine line between his duty to solve a crime and a town that hates black poeple.

    One problem I had with this movie was it look at racial issue in black and white with northerners being good and southerner being racey and prejudice. Just for the record, there are good hearted poeple in south, and certainly there are racist poeple in north.

    Four out of five star


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    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    Looking at this 1967 film with today's prespective which deal with a black detective from north helping out with a southern police chief to solve a crime, it remind us that we have come a long way in dealing with racial stereo types.

    Movie when was releaseed in '67 caused a sensation as USA was in grip of civil right movement. It won five academy awards including the 1967 award for Best Picture.Although it might be slightly dated today, but there is no denying its powerfull message about racial equality, or lack there of.

    Although Sidney Poitier put in a fine performance, this movie belong to his co-star Rod Steiger as town police chief. He have to walk a fine line between his duty to solve a crime and a town that hates black poeple.

    One problem I had with this movie was it look at racial issue in black and white with northerners being good and southerner being racey and prejudice. Just for the record, there are good hearted poeple in south, and certainly there are racist poeple in north.

    Four out of five star
    That is pretty much my assessment too, though I haven't see the flick in many years.

    I understand your "problem" but then it occurs to me that some things haven't changed all that much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    I understand your "problem" but then it occurs to me that some things haven't changed all that much.
    Living in the south I can tell you there have been alot of progress in racial issues, but as you noted we still have a way to go before being transparent racially. Void of racial prejudice, that is something that will never happen

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    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    Living in the south I can tell you there have been alot of progress in racial issues, but as you noted we still have a way to go before being transparent racially. Void of racial prejudice, that is something that will never happen
    Human beings have an instinctive "in-group" / "out-group" inclination that will never vanish. What comprises the "in-group" might change over longish periods of time.

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    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    Living in the south I can tell you there have been alot of progress in racial issues, but as you noted we still have a way to go before being transparent racially. Void of racial prejudice, that is something that will never happen
    Smoke, has the progress been in a better ability to hide racism, or that people's minds have actually changed on the issue. As we have seen over the last 6 years, many old school Americans(who were once firmly in charge of how things went) have hidden their racism, but once the opportunity to show it(without repercussions or regrets i.e the Tea Party) came, they were embolden to regurgitate old outdated racial beliefs and prejudices.

    Two weeks ago I went to Texas for Drum corps southwest Championships to support my nephew who was marching with the Cavaliers(just like his uncle did). It was pretty damn clear that a certain segment of Texans did not appreciate having to wait or serve a person of color. I felt that not much had changed from when I marched in the Southwest Championships some 25 years ago.

    I guess for me there are no levels of prejudice. Either you are, or you are not, on this issue, there is no grey area for me. If things have improved in the South, that improvement is lost on me.
    Last edited by Sir Terrence the Terrible; 07-26-2014 at 05:15 PM.
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    I don't think you can gauge anything by the behavior or attitude of Texans. The state seems to march to an entirely different drummer. Not to stereotype an entire population, just saying.

    It hasn't been that long ago a black man was dragged to death behind a truck in Texas by some white guys. On the other hand I lived in Atlanta for 2 years, well, lived in Lithonia but worked in downtown Atlanta, I was by far the minority were I lived and it was a non-issue, I rode public transportation, my experience would seem to support what Smokey was saying, in those two years race wasn't an issue. Diversity seemed to be working both at work and in the neighborhood I was in. Now moving to St. Louis after that was like going back in time, the city is pretty much segregated regionally by race, you can feel that segregation, it's hard to describe but it's like people of opposite race are expecting me to be prejudice so they are cold are withdrawn. I've lived here quite a while now and it seems things may be getting some better or maybe it's just possible those around me know me and understand race is not an issue where I'm concerned.

    I do agree unfortunately that prejudice will never go away, certain people will always find a reason to hate, and hate will be learned by the next generation from parents or others. It won't stop until we teach the children not to judge on appearance. If you ever notice elementary school children they play with each other no matter what, it's not until they get older and pick up the prejudices from others. Those who are evolved enough to think for themselves will still ignore differences, let's hope for more of them as time goes on.
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    Forum Regular Jack in Wilmington's Avatar
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    I just spent two weeks in Texas and the people couldn't be more friendly. I saw no signs of prejudice or racism and of course two weeks isn't a lot of time to form a real opinion on the people but it was a very positive experience for us.
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    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    There are degreeing levels of prejudce, at one point you just hate another base soley on color, culture and so on and are ready to do harm to that person for no other reason than that they exsist. Other levels are surrounded and cloaked in equality or inequality, where people will do whatever to keep others from achiving (education, housing, empolyment).

    Also your own experience plays a major role in how you view what is prejudce, Our own education system has done more damage in this area than many attitudes of closed minded people. When you pick up a grade school through high school history book and look to see what is said about blacks, you get about 1-2 pages of slavery and civil rights. No other information about the contributions of a whole race of people. So what value is placed on a whole race from our own history book, only good for as slaves and had to beg for equal rights that were given to all of those that pass through the ports of Eills Island. As a nation we have embraced people who at one point were our enemy, on the other hand we have created laws to keep (over the years) blacks from gaining equality in a nation they never fought against, but has fought to defend it since its inception.
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    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack in Wilmington View Post
    I just spent two weeks in Texas and the people couldn't be more friendly. I saw no signs of prejudice or racism and of course two weeks isn't a lot of time to form a real opinion on the people but it was a very positive experience for us.
    Jack, these days racism is so subtle and cloaked, that it is easy not to notice it if you have not experienced it yourself. I will give you an example.

    While in San Antonio we(Some Cavalier Alumni that marched with me back in the day) went to the same restaurant a couple of time - once for breakfast and the other time for dinner. Four white guys, and two Latino's sat down. When they brought out the silverware and napkins, the waitress(who was white woman) put the silverware out for the white men first even though the two latino's were much closer to her. The menu's were passed out to the white males first, and then the latino's. She took the white men's order first(keep in mind, myself and Manuel were closer to her than the other members of the party), and when she came with the bill, she put it in front of the white males(as if she knew we were not paying). This was not lost on anyone in our breakfast and dinner party mind you. She made eye contact with each of the white men, but she would not look at either myself or Miguel at all. When I handed her my credit card, she looked totally shocked, hesitated, and took care of the bill. In spite of the fact I gave her a 25% tip, she personally thanked each of the white men(and gave them eye contact as well), but didn't even look at Miguel or myself.

    When we got to the parking lot, my buddy Jeff(who is white) looked at me and said "What just happened in there?". I was surprised, because I didn't think he(or the other white guys Ben and Sam) even noticed, but Miguel and I certainly did. It was that obvious to us, and apparently to the others in our party. I said "welcome to the new racism in middle America". It is no longer overt, but more covert than in the past.

    Considering it was in Texas 25 years ago that several Cavaliers of color(both Black and Latino) were refused service at a restaurant, and the entire corp walked out without eating there, Jeff, Ben, and Sam wanted to walk back in there in confront the waitress much like the entire corps did years ago. Forget it, not worth my time.

    Somethings you can see easily, and some others are too subtle for some to notice. Rather than to not serve me(too obvious), I was not acknowledged or even thanked(more subtle) for my business.
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    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Jack, these days racism is so subtle and cloaked, that it is easy not to notice it if you have not experienced it yourself. I will give you an example.

    While in San Antonio we(Some Cavalier Alumni that marched with me back in the day) went to the same restaurant a couple of time - once for breakfast and the other time for dinner. Four white guys, and two Latino's sat down. When they brought out the silverware and napkins, the waitress(who was white woman) put the silverware out for the white men first even though the two latino's were much closer to her. The menu's were passed out to the white males first, and then the latino's. She took the white men's order first(keep in mind, myself and Manuel were closer to her than the other members of the party), and when she came with the bill, she put it in front of the white males(as if she knew we were not paying). This was not lost on anyone in our breakfast and dinner party mind you. She made eye contact with each of the white men, but she would not look at either myself or Miguel at all. When I handed her my credit card, she looked totally shocked, hesitated, and took care of the bill. In spite of the fact I gave her a 25% tip, she personally thanked each of the white men(and gave them eye contact as well), but didn't even look at Miguel or myself.

    When we got to the parking lot, my buddy Jeff(who is white) looked at me and said "What just happened in there?". I was surprised, because I didn't think he(or the other white guys Ben and Sam) even noticed, but Miguel and I certainly did. It was that obvious to us, and apparently to the others in our party. I said "welcome to the new racism in middle America". It is no longer overt, but more covert than in the past.

    Considering it was in Texas 25 years ago that several Cavaliers of color(both Black and Latino) were refused service at a restaurant, and the entire corp walked out without eating there, Jeff, Ben, and Sam wanted to walk back in there in confront the waitress much like the entire corps did years ago. Forget it, not worth my time.

    Somethings you can see easily, and some others are too subtle for some to notice. Rather than to not serve me(too obvious), I was not acknowledged or even thanked(more subtle) for my business.
    Of course there is residual racism in America and most other places. I have certainly witnessed it myself.

    But I wonder: are white people the only racists? Or are, say, Latinos occasionally racist? Can you tell us a story about an instance of Latino racism?

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    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I think once you have truly experienced prejudice and racism and realized how wrong it is you are less likely to practice it. Having experienced it you can see the subtle aspects of racism and prejudice quicker than those who have not had to live with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I think once you have truly experienced prejudice and racism and realized how wrong it is you are less likely to practice it. Having experienced it you can see the subtle aspects of racism and prejudice quicker than those who have not had to live with it.
    So is that like child abuse? The more you've experienced it the less likely you are to practice it?

    On the other hand, I don't doubt that the more you've experienced it, the more sensitized you become.

    I recently watched Spike Lee's Malcolm X, a pretty good movie: 3.5/5* In it we see Elijah Muhammad and his followers, including a younger Malcolm X. saying things about whites that were every bit as untrue, irrational, and hateful as anything whites might have though of blacks. Malcolm X himself reformed to his credit, ironically some might say, after going to Mecca and experiencing a truer variety of Islam than what he got from Elijah Muhammad. But Louis Farrakhan and his crew are scarcely improved.

    White racism no doubt caused black racism, but the bad example of former certainly didn't prevent the latter.

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    I haven't seen Malcom X in years but I remember really liking it. Also, brought to my attention what a stellar actor Denzel is. Good example though, all Malcolm knew was from his early life then what was taught in prison, but as you mentioned when he went to Mecca and saw whites and people of all color worshipping and getting along it was enlightening for him. Some people aren't that intelligent. For those who are communications and understanding go a long way to reduce prejudice. Different races have culture but as individuals each has their own heart and mind so stereotypes should not apply.

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    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Of course there is residual racism in America and most other places. I have certainly witnessed it myself.

    But I wonder: are white people the only racists? Or are, say, Latinos occasionally racist? Can you tell us a story about an instance of Latino racism?
    Bill,
    White people are not the only racists, anyone can be a racist. However, white people(generalization) started all of this, and Asians, Blacks, and Latino have been profoundly hurt by it. I don't blame them for wanting some way to retaliate back, but here we go around in circles - and it is just not worth it. My retaliation is much better. Don't hate, be great. Success is the best weapon against those that mean you ill will, and that is the path I chose. My grandmother(who was a white British woman) instilled in me enough self esteem, enough push, and more than enough support that racism didn't bother me as much as it would other minorities. I had a VERY hard time in school(I went to a mostly white private catholic boarding school) dealing with racism. I had my locker blown up by a cherry bomb(with all my books in it), and at times I had to kick some serious butt to get the aggressors off my back. But the ultimate revenge came at graduation when my twin brother and I ended up co-valedictorians, and secured nearly 3/4 of all the scholarship and grant money allocated to our school. We were asked by the school administration not to show up to the graduation ceremony for our safety, but there was no way I was going to miss it.

    IMO, it is one thing to be a racist because of the power, and the perception that you think you are better. It is another to be racist as a defense mechanism, and as a result of pain you have experienced from it. I know many Black folks that don't like whites(and visa versa), and most of them originated from the south. While I am sure there are racist Latino's, I have never in all of my life actually heard a Latino making racist statements...EVER. I know plenty of Asians who have complained about racism, but they seem to align themselves with the very folks they complain about. In other words, they take on the same racists tendencies towards Blacks and Latino's as racist white people do. Now that does not make much sense to me.

    Being the balanced guy I am, there have been quite a few situations where whites have actually come to my defense when I was confronted by racists. My Cavalier brothers(mostly all white guys) were so anti racism that when we travelled in the south, if any of the minorities in the corps were poorly treated, they would all walk out of that business without purchasing anything. Imagine having the chance to serve 128 young men in a restaurant(cha ching!), and because of the behavior of one waiter or waitress, you lose all of that money - and you are in a small town that does not attract that kind of business often.

    In saying all this, I hate racism. If you say you hate whites, then you hate my Grandmother. If you say you hate blacks, then you hate my Godmother who raised me. If say you hate Latino's, then you hate my mother. Too much hate in all that for me. I grew up in a racially integrated family. While mostly latino, whites were very well represented and so were blacks. I didn't know anything about racism until I started school.

    To me, it is all just a profound waste of energy.
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    Can a crooner get a gig? dean_martin's Avatar
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    I agree with Sir T, hit'em in the wallet where it hurts. In my small town, there's a clique of families that have been around for years and years which gives them a certain feeling of entitlement. The first difficult case I worked on as a law clerk while still in law school involved members of these families conspiring to apply the purchase price of a piece of property to erase loans of one these members at a local bank rather than applying it to the mortgage that member had on the property she sold. This meant that although the purchaser paid the full price in cash, the seller's mortgage was not released. After the sale, the bank proceeded with foreclosure on the property. The purchaser was a black man. The conspiracy/fraud involved the seller, a local lawyer and several bank board members all of whom were members of these "entitled" white families. They wound up paying more than 5x the value of the property and my man got to keep his property. Just think of the mindset it takes to do something like that. This Black man was totally insignificant to them. They never dreamt he'd hire a lawyer and fight back. Since then, we have tried to expose racism in the provisions of utilities and safety measures to predominantly black neighborhoods and in hiring and firing practices of large employers when the oppurtunities have arisen.

    Of course racism is often more subtle and most of the time it's not actionable. I'm almost ready for the Millennials to take over. That generation, at least the ones that don't have their crap spread all over social media, seems to have an inherent fairness about them - a way of looking at the world and its people that's new and fresh. They're not encumbered with as much social baggage. For example, some of my old relatives used racial slurs in my presence when I was a kid. Thankfully, they died (as old people do) and I didn't have to make a choice as to whether to take my own kids around them for "family visits". I think racism is learned and can be overcome through education and broadened experiences. If you don't "teach" it to your kids, you can actually watch inherent fairness develop. In other words, fairness and respect for all earthbound humans is the "default" human tendency while racism and certain prejudices are taught or learned and take individual development (and in some instances, the development of a whole people) on an unnatural course. What movie were we talking about?

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    Not interested in getting involved with the current debate, but cannot figure out why 2 or 3 OTA movie channels have been running this movie almost every day or night for the last several months.

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    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Not interested in getting involved with the current debate, but cannot figure out why 2 or 3 OTA movie channels have been running this movie almost every day or night for the last several months.
    Its a classic, based on the content and subject matter
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    Quote Originally Posted by recoveryone View Post
    Its a classic, based on the content and subject matter
    Lots of other classics that don't get rerun every night of the week, but OK.

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    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    I appreciate your comments. Your own background gives you an unusual (though not unique) perspective. Racism is a scourge of humanity, (along with organized religion, though you might not agree with the latter).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Bill,
    White people are not the only racists, anyone can be a racist. However, white people(generalization) started all of this, and Asians, Blacks, and Latino have been profoundly hurt by it ...
    This fair to say. It began with the rapid ascendancy of the West in the modern era dating from the mid-15th century. (Prior to then and for a while afterwards there was no reason to bet on the West over China or even the Ottoman Empire for world dominance.) Driven by the aggressively competitive nature of Western culture and subsequently by its technological and military precocity, the Western dominated the whole world by the mid-19th century. The dominance was accompanied by an arrogant sense of superiority and entitlement that bread and fostered racism.

    This is not say the Western attitude was entirely dissimilar to that of, e.g., the Chinese who were distainful of "barbarians", (anybody else), until the early 19th century.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    IMO, it is one thing to be a racist because of the power, and the perception that you think you are better. It is another to be racist as a defense mechanism, and as a result of pain you have experienced from it.
    ...
    This is fair to say to, but here some ironies creep into the picture.

    The racism of the south has two sources I would suggest.

    First, the racism of the slave owners who need to find away to justify their evil, un-Christian practice by casting the blacks as inferior. Some even convincing themselves that what they did was best for "the Negro".

    Secondly -- and relating to the idea of defensive mechanism -- the racism of the poor whites who need to cast blacks as inferior in order to boost their own low sense of self-worth. Most southern white racism you observe to day is of this source.

    Racism exists in the USA today, (and other places), but overt racism, or let's say, functional racism is declining while poverty and wealth inequality are emerging is bigger issue. Of course black and latinos are more frequently the victims of poverty, but even for them, their poverty is nowadays the greater issue the racism per se, IMO.

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    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    I appreciate your comments. Your own background gives you an unusual (though not unique) perspective. Racism is a scourge of humanity, (along with organized religion, though you might not agree with the latter).



    This fair to say. It began with the rapid ascendancy of the West in the modern era dating from the mid-15th century. (Prior to then and for a while afterwards there was no reason to bet on the West over China or even the Ottoman Empire for world dominance.) Driven by the aggressively competitive nature of Western culture and subsequently by its technological and military precocity, the Western dominated the whole world by the mid-19th century. The dominance was accompanied by an arrogant sense of superiority and entitlement that bread and fostered racism.

    This is not say the Western attitude was entirely dissimilar to that of, e.g., the Chinese who were distainful of "barbarians", (anybody else), until the early 19th century.



    This is fair to say to, but here some ironies creep into the picture.

    The racism of the south has two sources I would suggest.

    First, the racism of the slave owners who need to find away to justify their evil, un-Christian practice by casting the blacks as inferior. Some even convincing themselves that what they did was best for "the Negro".

    Secondly -- and relating to the idea of defensive mechanism -- the racism of the poor whites who need to cast blacks as inferior in order to boost their own low sense of self-worth. Most southern white racism you observe to day is of this source.

    Racism exists in the USA today, (and other places), but overt racism, or let's say, functional racism is declining while poverty and wealth inequality are emerging is bigger issue. Of course black and latinos are more frequently the victims of poverty, but even for them, their poverty is nowadays the greater issue the racism per se, IMO.
    Good gosh, I love this response. Thank you for you comment Bill!!!
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    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Not interested in getting involved with the current debate, but cannot figure out why 2 or 3 OTA movie channels have been running this movie almost every day or night for the last several months.
    Could somebody be telling you something? Just sayin.....
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  22. #22
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    I guess for me there are no levels of prejudice. Either you are, or you are not, on this issue, there is no grey area for me.
    But most poeple are in grey area as far as racial prejudice are concern. I agree with Recoveryone that there are degreeing levels of prejudice as some folks are more tolerant and acceptance than others, and some that are more vocal about it.

    My experience have been that if a person is racist, the racism apply to all poeple of color that are not their kind including latinos, middle easterns or orientals. Or differnet religion for that matter.

    If things have improved in the South, that improvement is lost on me.
    Well, we have a black president, so I would say that there have been some improvements on that front

    The problem with racials issues in the south is that there are more poverty, which breed more violence and nagative image of racial genders.I agree with you that education and economic power for african-americans is one way to shed negative sterero typing. For example, our regional manager for our company is black person and we look at him as a boss, not a black person.

    But on the other side of coin, we see poverty causes poeple to rob, shoot and do violence. That image will deepen our negative stereo typing.

  23. #23
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    But most poeple are in grey area as far as racial prejudice are concern. I agree with Recoveryone that there are degreeing levels of prejudice as some folks are more tolerant and acceptance than others, and some that are more vocal about it.

    My experience have been that if a person is racist, the racism apply to all poeple of color that are not their kind including latinos, middle easterns or orientals. Or differnet religion for that matter.
    Smokey, on the first point I completely agree. In practical terms there are degrees of racism exist among people -- most people in fact. A down-to-earth example would be the person who is genuinely OK with other races in the work place or as clients or tenants, but is unhappy with his daughter marrying one. This is not to say that racism is acceptable in any degree, but degrees do exist and some degrees are worse than others. The right way to look at is that any lessening of racism is a good thing and might lead to further lesseing.

    On you second point, I basically agree but I believe that people very often habor different degrees of racism, (see above), towards different races.

    Again no degree of racism is ultimately acceptable but degrees do exist.

  24. #24
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    But most poeple are in grey area as far as racial prejudice are concern. I agree with Recoveryone that there are degreeing levels of prejudice as some folks are more tolerant and acceptance than others, and some that are more vocal about it.
    My question to this response is why is racial tolerance better than racial neutrality(those that do not care an ounce about skin color). Anyone that is tolerant of something is quite frankly being superior in attitude(I tolerate this because I can, or it is beneath me).

    My experience have been that if a person is racist, the racism apply to all poeple of color that are not their kind including latinos, middle easterns or orientals. Or differnet religion for that matter.
    I agree with this.



    Well, we have a black president, so I would say that there have been some improvements on that front
    Upon careful scrutiny, the south did not contribute to this. The south voted overwhelmingly for Romney(Republican), even if they had problems with his religion. IMO partisan ignorance, and racial bias played a big factor in this.

    The problem with racials issues in the south is that there are more poverty, which breed more violence and nagative image of racial genders.I agree with you that education and economic power for african-americans is one way to shed negative sterero typing. For example, our regional manager for our company is black person and we look at him as a boss, not a black person.
    Your boss probably carries himself as a race neutral boss, which makes it easier for you to look at him much differently than a race bias boss.

    But on the other side of coin, we see poverty causes poeple to rob, shoot and do violence. That image will deepen our negative stereo typing.
    Poverty in and of itself causes race neutrality. If a white person is on welfare sitting next to a black person on welfare(food stamps or medi-whatever your state is) then it is very difficult to look at yourself as superior. Everyone is in the same pot, same place experiencing the same spirit degrading circumstances.

    Let's face it. Racism is most prominent in the south. The south also is the poorest part of America. The irony is poor black folks and poor white folks are in the same pool. But poor white folks in the south vote extensively for Republicans, who would like to keep them poor, ignorant, and out of the mainstream. Just take an honest look at southern governors policies, and you will clearly see that poor white people are dismissed entirely in favor of rich folks, and corporations(fair wage laws that are not fair at all). The midwest does not fair better in this area.

    Let's take a look at Kansas. Their Republican governor cuts taxes for the wealthy and big businesses. The state coffers took such a big hit, that schools and state infrastructure took huge cuts. Who does this hurt the most? The poor who rely on education to get them out of poverty, and the poor who have to pay more in taxes because of an unbalanced policy. Roads don't get built or repaved, schools are underfunded, and the middle class and poor suffer. In spite of this, Kansas is controlled by republicans, and keeps sending republicans to the governorship. Kansas is apparently not voting in their self interests, or they would they would not send those that do not support their beliefs or interests to the state house.

    I chose Kansas becuase i just watch a documentary called "What is the matter with Kansas"(I think that was the title name) on Netflix. Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee, Kansas, Arizona all have this same problem, and nobody seems to get it in those states.

    I want to be clear, these are generalizations, and don't represent everyone in each state.

    As far as there being levels or gradients of bias, to somebody on the other side of that bias, those gradients or levels are quite frankly irrelevant. This is like saying there are degrees of hate. Hate is hate, and those levels and gradients of hate are lost on those behind the bullet of hate. You cannot make a hard pillow soft just because it looks fluffy.
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  25. #25
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    My question to this response is why is racial tolerance better than racial neutrality (those that do not care an ounce about skin color). Anyone that is tolerant of something is quite frankly being superior in attitude (I tolerate this because I can, or it is beneath me).
    I don't think there is any question of tolerance being better than neutrality. But tolerance is a better than intolerance and tolerance can lead to neutrality. There is something of my personal journey in this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Poverty in and of itself causes race neutrality. If a white person is on welfare sitting next to a black person on welfare(food stamps or medi-whatever your state is) then it is very difficult to look at yourself as superior. Everyone is in the same pot, same place experiencing the same spirit degrading circumstances.
    History clearly shows that economic equivalence doesn't necessarily lead to racial tolerance much less neutrality. The US south is an excellent example of this.

    As I explained, people like to feel better than other people and when there is no objective basis for this, they will look else where. In the case of the South, it was easy for red-necks to say, "I'm ignorant and dirt-poor but at least I'm better than those black slaves". It was an attitude well cultivated by the wealthy plantation owners.

    I suspect the Civil War would never have happened if the non-slave owning farmers and tradesman who made up the large majority of the Confederate armyhad realized the the whole "Southern way of life" and "States rights" thing was bull****.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Let's face it. Racism is most prominent in the south. The south also is the poorest part of America. The irony is poor black folks and poor white folks are in the same pool. But poor white folks in the south vote extensively for Republicans, who would like to keep them poor, ignorant, and out of the mainstream. Just take an honest look at southern governors policies, and you will clearly see that poor white people are dismissed entirely in favor of rich folks, and corporations(fair wage laws that are not fair at all). The midwest does not fair better in this area.

    Let's take a look at Kansas. Their Republican governor cuts taxes for the wealthy and big businesses. The state coffers took such a big hit, that schools and state infrastructure took huge cuts. Who does this hurt the most? The poor who rely on education to get them out of poverty, and the poor who have to pay more in taxes because of an unbalanced policy. Roads don't get built or repaved, schools are underfunded, and the middle class and poor suffer. In spite of this, Kansas is controlled by republicans, and keeps sending republicans to the governorship. Kansas is apparently not voting in their self interests, or they would they would not send those that do not support their beliefs or interests to the state house.

    I chose Kansas becuase i just watch a documentary called "What is the matter with Kansas"(I think that was the title name) on Netflix. Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee, Kansas, Arizona all have this same problem, and nobody seems to get it in those states.
    Déjà vu all over again. Racism, religious dogmatism, and ethnic identity are tools of oppression of everybody, not just the targets of these attitudes. Look at the Balkans in the post-Yugoslav era. The current situation has a lot of similarity with the pre-Civil War era in that the wealthy foster regressive attitudes to gain the support of the ordinary people.

    People with insight realized that the agenda of the Republican Party favors the top 1% (or maybe more like the top 0.01%) ... BUT you don't win elections with 1% of the vote. The GOP has with huge success by verbally catering to, and stoking, the conservative biases of the gullible majority Americans in the South and Mid-west even though its policy a patently against the economic interests.
    Last edited by Feanor; 07-30-2014 at 04:24 AM.
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