In The Heat of The Night

[Smokey]

Looking at this 1967 film with today's prespective which deal with a black detective from north helping out with a southern police chief to solve a crime, it remind us that we have come a long way in dealing with racial stereo types.

Movie when was releaseed in '67 caused a sensation as USA was in grip of civil right movement. It won five academy awards including the 1967 award for Best Picture.Although it might be slightly dated today, but there is no denying its powerfull message about racial equality, or lack there of.

Although Sidney Poitier put in a fine performance, this movie belong to his co-star Rod Steiger as town police chief. He have to walk a fine line between his duty to solve a crime and a town that hates black poeple.

One problem I had with this movie was it look at racial issue in black and white with northerners being good and southerner being racey and prejudice. Just for the record, there are good hearted poeple in south, and certainly there are racist poeple in north.

Four out of five star

[Feanor]

Looking at this 1967 film with today's prespective which deal with a black detective from north helping out with a southern police chief to solve a crime, it remind us that we have come a long way in dealing with racial stereo types.

Movie when was releaseed in '67 caused a sensation as USA was in grip of civil right movement. It won five academy awards including the 1967 award for Best Picture.Although it might be slightly dated today, but there is no denying its powerfull message about racial equality, or lack there of.

Although Sidney Poitier put in a fine performance, this movie belong to his co-star Rod Steiger as town police chief. He have to walk a fine line between his duty to solve a crime and a town that hates black poeple.

One problem I had with this movie was it look at racial issue in black and white with northerners being good and southerner being racey and prejudice. Just for the record, there are good hearted poeple in south, and certainly there are racist poeple in north.

Four out of five star

That is pretty much my assessment too, though I haven't see the flick in many years.

I understand your "problem" but then it occurs to me that some things haven't changed all that much.

[Smokey]

I understand your "problem" but then it occurs to me that some things haven't changed all that much.

Living in the south I can tell you there have been alot of progress in racial issues, but as you noted we still have a way to go before being transparent racially. Void of racial prejudice, that is something that will never happen

[Feanor]

Living in the south I can tell you there have been alot of progress in racial issues, but as you noted we still have a way to go before being transparent racially. Void of racial prejudice, that is something that will never happen

Human beings have an instinctive "in-group" / "out-group" inclination that will never vanish. What comprises the "in-group" might change over longish periods of time.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Living in the south I can tell you there have been alot of progress in racial issues, but as you noted we still have a way to go before being transparent racially. Void of racial prejudice, that is something that will never happen

Smoke, has the progress been in a better ability to hide racism, or that people's minds have actually changed on the issue. As we have seen over the last 6 years, many old school Americans(who were once firmly in charge of how things went) have hidden their racism, but once the opportunity to show it(without repercussions or regrets i.e the Tea Party) came, they were embolden to regurgitate old outdated racial beliefs and prejudices.

Two weeks ago I went to Texas for Drum corps southwest Championships to support my nephew who was marching with the Cavaliers(just like his uncle did). It was pretty damn clear that a certain segment of Texans did not appreciate having to wait or serve a person of color. I felt that not much had changed from when I marched in the Southwest Championships some 25 years ago.

I guess for me there are no levels of prejudice. Either you are, or you are not, on this issue, there is no grey area for me. If things have improved in the South, that improvement is lost on me.

[Mr Peabody]

I don't think you can gauge anything by the behavior or attitude of Texans. The state seems to march to an entirely different drummer. Not to stereotype an entire population, just saying.

It hasn't been that long ago a black man was dragged to death behind a truck in Texas by some white guys. On the other hand I lived in Atlanta for 2 years, well, lived in Lithonia but worked in downtown Atlanta, I was by far the minority were I lived and it was a non-issue, I rode public transportation, my experience would seem to support what Smokey was saying, in those two years race wasn't an issue. Diversity seemed to be working both at work and in the neighborhood I was in. Now moving to St. Louis after that was like going back in time, the city is pretty much segregated regionally by race, you can feel that segregation, it's hard to describe but it's like people of opposite race are expecting me to be prejudice so they are cold are withdrawn. I've lived here quite a while now and it seems things may be getting some better or maybe it's just possible those around me know me and understand race is not an issue where I'm concerned.

I do agree unfortunately that prejudice will never go away, certain people will always find a reason to hate, and hate will be learned by the next generation from parents or others. It won't stop until we teach the children not to judge on appearance. If you ever notice elementary school children they play with each other no matter what, it's not until they get older and pick up the prejudices from others. Those who are evolved enough to think for themselves will still ignore differences, let's hope for more of them as time goes on.

[Jack in Wilmington]

I just spent two weeks in Texas and the people couldn't be more friendly. I saw no signs of prejudice or racism and of course two weeks isn't a lot of time to form a real opinion on the people but it was a very positive experience for us.

[Smokey]

I guess for me there are no levels of prejudice. Either you are, or you are not, on this issue, there is no grey area for me.

But most poeple are in grey area as far as racial prejudice are concern. I agree with Recoveryone that there are degreeing levels of prejudice as some folks are more tolerant and acceptance than others, and some that are more vocal about it.

My experience have been that if a person is racist, the racism apply to all poeple of color that are not their kind including latinos, middle easterns or orientals. Or differnet religion for that matter.

If things have improved in the South, that improvement is lost on me.

Well, we have a black president, so I would say that there have been some improvements on that front

The problem with racials issues in the south is that there are more poverty, which breed more violence and nagative image of racial genders.I agree with you that education and economic power for african-americans is one way to shed negative sterero typing. For example, our regional manager for our company is black person and we look at him as a boss, not a black person.

But on the other side of coin, we see poverty causes poeple to rob, shoot and do violence. That image will deepen our negative stereo typing.

[Feanor]

But most poeple are in grey area as far as racial prejudice are concern. I agree with Recoveryone that there are degreeing levels of prejudice as some folks are more tolerant and acceptance than others, and some that are more vocal about it.

My experience have been that if a person is racist, the racism apply to all poeple of color that are not their kind including latinos, middle easterns or orientals. Or differnet religion for that matter.

Smokey, on the first point I completely agree. In practical terms there are degrees of racism exist among people -- most people in fact. A down-to-earth example would be the person who is genuinely OK with other races in the work place or as clients or tenants, but is unhappy with his daughter marrying one. This is not to say that racism is acceptable in any degree, but degrees do exist and some degrees are worse than others. The right way to look at is that any lessening of racism is a good thing and might lead to further lesseing.

On you second point, I basically agree but I believe that people very often habor different degrees of racism, (see above), towards different races.

Again no degree of racism is ultimately acceptable but degrees do exist.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

But most poeple are in grey area as far as racial prejudice are concern. I agree with Recoveryone that there are degreeing levels of prejudice as some folks are more tolerant and acceptance than others, and some that are more vocal about it.

My question to this response is why is racial tolerance better than racial neutrality(those that do not care an ounce about skin color). Anyone that is tolerant of something is quite frankly being superior in attitude(I tolerate this because I can, or it is beneath me).

My experience have been that if a person is racist, the racism apply to all poeple of color that are not their kind including latinos, middle easterns or orientals. Or differnet religion for that matter.

I agree with this.

Well, we have a black president, so I would say that there have been some improvements on that front

Upon careful scrutiny, the south did not contribute to this. The south voted overwhelmingly for Romney(Republican), even if they had problems with his religion. IMO partisan ignorance, and racial bias played a big factor in this.

The problem with racials issues in the south is that there are more poverty, which breed more violence and nagative image of racial genders.I agree with you that education and economic power for african-americans is one way to shed negative sterero typing. For example, our regional manager for our company is black person and we look at him as a boss, not a black person.

Your boss probably carries himself as a race neutral boss, which makes it easier for you to look at him much differently than a race bias boss.

But on the other side of coin, we see poverty causes poeple to rob, shoot and do violence. That image will deepen our negative stereo typing.

Poverty in and of itself causes race neutrality. If a white person is on welfare sitting next to a black person on welfare(food stamps or medi-whatever your state is) then it is very difficult to look at yourself as superior. Everyone is in the same pot, same place experiencing the same spirit degrading circumstances.

Let's face it. Racism is most prominent in the south. The south also is the poorest part of America. The irony is poor black folks and poor white folks are in the same pool. But poor white folks in the south vote extensively for Republicans, who would like to keep them poor, ignorant, and out of the mainstream. Just take an honest look at southern governors policies, and you will clearly see that poor white people are dismissed entirely in favor of rich folks, and corporations(fair wage laws that are not fair at all). The midwest does not fair better in this area.

Let's take a look at Kansas. Their Republican governor cuts taxes for the wealthy and big businesses. The state coffers took such a big hit, that schools and state infrastructure took huge cuts. Who does this hurt the most? The poor who rely on education to get them out of poverty, and the poor who have to pay more in taxes because of an unbalanced policy. Roads don't get built or repaved, schools are underfunded, and the middle class and poor suffer. In spite of this, Kansas is controlled by republicans, and keeps sending republicans to the governorship. Kansas is apparently not voting in their self interests, or they would they would not send those that do not support their beliefs or interests to the state house.

I chose Kansas becuase i just watch a documentary called "What is the matter with Kansas"(I think that was the title name) on Netflix. Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee, Kansas, Arizona all have this same problem, and nobody seems to get it in those states.

I want to be clear, these are generalizations, and don't represent everyone in each state.

As far as there being levels or gradients of bias, to somebody on the other side of that bias, those gradients or levels are quite frankly irrelevant. This is like saying there are degrees of hate. Hate is hate, and those levels and gradients of hate are lost on those behind the bullet of hate. You cannot make a hard pillow soft just because it looks fluffy.

[Mr Peabody]

here's a relevant read: My son has been suspended five times. He’s 3. - The Washington Post

[recoveryone]

Interesting read Peabody, and adds soild info to what many parents/families of color have suspected all along. Many studies have shown the large gap in discipline among students, especially male blacks. Which has been directly connected to the large number of male blacks being incarcerate.

And this devisive attiude even carries over into the home, where a child is told they will never amount to anything because of what appears to be a lack of control at school. at one point of their lives (mostly middle school age) they began to choose the path that has been told to them over the years. Between 8-10th grade most will drop out of school or be so far behind that they would not have much of a chance to graduate. Or worst, once becoming aware of being placed in special needs/special education classes feel the personal embarrassment knowning that they are not really in need of that status.

[Mr Peabody]

None of us realized how timely the discussion that took place here would become.

[recoveryone]

I have only heard a few sound bites, but would like to get more of the details.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

If one really wants to understand why Black folks are so angry at white, look up "Black in America" on Netflix with Dr. Henry Louis Gates(a brilliant man I might add). There are six episodes that break slavery and racism down in a time based linear fashion that I have never experienced while I was in school(my school didn't talk about slavery much, probably because the Catholic Church turned a blind eye to it). I cried, got angry, felt hope and despair, but ultimately had my eyes opened wide.

Feanor, I know you don't agree with this, but that is probably because you have not had to deal with this personally. After watching this series, I just cannot agree with you on this point. Blacks have a right to be angry as hell at the way they have been treated in this country. Put of these shoes and hat if you can. Just imagine being sold(by your own people I might add, who thought is was just commerce and business as usual), brought to a foreign country, stripped of your culture, given a new name. You are enslaved on a plantation, have a family, then they are sold off splitting up the family. You are treated in a profoundly harsh way, beat up, your women raped, and when they have kids, they are sold away as well. Then you are freed, you go off to war because you are promised freedom, and when you come back from war, you don't get your freedom.

A decree is signed giving you your freedom, but since you have never been free, you don't quite know how to adjust. When you finally adjust to your freedom, you are told you cannot mingle with whites in any venue, including the one you work in. You cannot choose the job you want(there are many jobs you cannot even get), you cannot choose where you want to live, or don't have many choices at all. You are free(sort of), but still poor, still not equal, and still in bad economic condition. Hell, you can't even vote. Every time you figure out the system works, the powers that be change the rules so you end up in the same condition as you were before. You can never gain any traction economically, and when you do, the rules change again and you lose your traction once again. Each time you do well as a race, the rules change, and you lose everything over and over and over again - for nearly 500 years. You should be mad as hell about this, and anyone that says you should not, probably is the one making the rules. Then the civil right era comes and there is new hope, but that hope is dashed because some 50 years later, the majority of your race is still poor, still does not have equal right, and your life means so little to so many(the senseless killing and incarceration of young black males). If you are not mad about this, then you have no feelings or emotion at all.

When your racism is a cruel and heartless as racism has been to Latino's, Indians, and Blacks in this country, you shouldn't just be mad, you should be mad as hell. However, what you do with that anger is very important. Do you just fight and hate back? Nope. You learn the game, and you play it hard. A few minorities have learned this, and done well. Unfortunately so many have not, and have given up hope which in my opinion is understandable(they been here before and not gotten ahead), but tragic at the same time.

Racism used to be a state of mind, but no in the US it is institutionalize and embedded in the American culture. I have said this before, and I will say it again. Racism will not go away until the baby boomers die out, and there is so much racial intertwining that nobody will be able to tell what race another is(we are already headed in this direction).

Lastly, and oddly enough - I made a bet with a few of my friends. I challenged them to take a DNA test, so they know exactly what their racial make up is. My white friends didn't want to participate, but my Black, Latino, and South Asian friend jumped at the bet willingly. Peer pressure finally got my white friends in the game, so we are waiting to see the results. Since I have done this before, I pretty much know my outcome. However, when I did this before, some people were VERY surprised at what their DNA test results were - almost to the point of disbelief and agony.

Here is just a little read, and just a crack in the door on Minority anger with the powers that be.

Reconstruction Era - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Mr Peabody]

What happened in the past is a disgrace but should not be used as an excuse for any minority today. No one today is/was a slave. As one speaker from the NAACP was saying minorities need to take advantage of education, take pride in themselves, get involved, vote, etc.

Racial Profiling is real as in the recent example of Barney's who had to admit they were guilty of it, and, something to be upset about. Many here are upset by racial profiling of authorities who took the oath to protect and serve. This is also a disgrace, as well the link I posted above, and it shows society hasn't come as far as we thought. This recent killing here and the one just a week or so in NYC are prime example of authorities gone too far and brought things to the boiling point. Justice is supposed to be fair and balanced, now those in charge have to decide whether they'll step up to the plate and effect real change and hold violators of rights responsible. This type of distrust will be virtually impossible to erase.

I mentioned above when I moved here from Atlanta it was like going back in time regarding race, it was interesting to hear a guest on MSMBC mention that St. Louis is still one of the most segregated cities in the country. Not sure how that bares out in Sir T's South as the villain theory. Although racism is every where.unfortunately, I just don't think we can stereotype one region of the country vs another.

[JohnMichael]

First off human trafficking is still happening today so slavery does exist. For years prejudice held many people back so they were not able to work to their abilities. To me that is a forced situation. Forcibly kept in poverty to me is a form of slavery. I heard a white male in my care mention when President Obama was elected that he thought they could only cut grass or haul trash. Look at the discrepancy in employment to know prejudice is still keeping minorities down.

I remember one day I was shocked while in my local audio shop. Three young white men were crowded back in the car audio displays. They went totally unobserved by the staff. Three young black men walked in and the salesmen stood up and watched them until I called them out for it. They did not realize their own bias.

I think some stereotypes are so deep seated and believed that people react to them. They may claim a lack of prejudice but their actions show otherwise. Keeping people in poverty to me is a form of slavery.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

What happened in the past is a disgrace but should not be used as an excuse for any minority today. No one today is/was a slave. As one speaker from the NAACP was saying minorities need to take advantage of education, take pride in themselves, get involved, vote, etc.

If you know the history of Black folks in that past, they have done all of this, and still have the highest unemployment rates, lower pay, and still experience institutional racism. Only a person who has never experienced multi-generational racism would make this statement.

Racial Profiling is real as in the recent example of Barney's who had to admit they were guilty of it, and, something to be upset about. Many here are upset by racial profiling of authorities who took the oath to protect and serve. This is also a disgrace, as well the link I posted above, and it shows society hasn't come as far as we thought. This recent killing here and the one just a week or so in NYC are prime example of authorities gone too far and brought things to the boiling point. Justice is supposed to be fair and balanced, now those in charge have to decide whether they'll step up to the plate and effect real change and hold violators of rights responsible. This type of distrust will be virtually impossible to erase.

This comment is exactly why it is not enough to get an education, take pride in yourself, and get involved. When the racism is so profoundly deep and embedded in the prevailing culture, no matter what you do, it is not enough to get you equality. History has proven this over and over again.

I mentioned above when I moved here from Atlanta it was like going back in time regarding race, it was interesting to hear a guest on MSMBC mention that St. Louis is still one of the most segregated cities in the country. Not sure how that bares out in Sir T's South as the villain theory. Although racism is every where.unfortunately, I just don't think we can stereotype one region of the country vs another.

My perspective is not limited to the south. I have said many times the Midwest is just as bad as the south, and I personally could never live in either place. The very idea that I could achieve great success in my career, and still be looked at as a second class citizen based on the region I lived in is very unpalatable to me.

[Feanor]

Feanor, I know you don't agree with this, but that is probably because you have not had to deal with this personally. After watching this series, I just cannot agree with you on this point. Blacks have a right to be angry as hell at the way they have been treated in this country. Put of these shoes and hat if you can. Just imagine being sold(by your own people I might add, who thought is was just commerce and business as usual), brought to a foreign country, stripped of your culture, given a new name. You are enslaved on a plantation, have a family, then they are sold off splitting up the family. You are treated in a profoundly harsh way, beat up, your women raped, and when they have kids, they are sold away as well. Then you are freed, you go off to war because you are promised freedom, and when you come back from war, you don't get your freedom.
...

Here is just a little read, and just a crack in the door on Minority anger with the powers that be.

Reconstruction Era - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sir T, I'm not sure what it is you think I disagree with.

Certainly slavery AND subsequent racism are abhorrent. It is disgusting the poor white antebellum farmers and workers in the South embraced racism that, in reality, served primarily wealthy plantation owners. It is disgusting that Southern white racists were allowed to impose the 'Jim Crow' laws after Reconstruction. It is disgusting the men of learning and stature such as Woodrow Wilson were racists and introduce segregation is areas like the Federal civil service where it hadn't been before. It is disgusting the lightly veiled racism one hears directed at Barrack Obama. And it's disgusting to hear lightly veiled racism today from the likes of Tea Party supporters.

Blacks have a right to be angry. But anger is one thing, hate and slander of whites is another. If neutrality is the goal, tolerance -- from both sides -- is a step along the way.

Lastly, and oddly enough - I made a bet with a few of my friends. I challenged them to take a DNA test, so they know exactly what their racial make up is. My white friends didn't want to participate, but my Black, Latino, and South Asian friend jumped at the bet willingly. Peer pressure finally got my white friends in the game, so we are waiting to see the results. Since I have done this before, I pretty much know my outcome. However, when I did this before, some people were VERY surprised at what their DNA test results were - almost to the point of disbelief and agony.

I would love to have my DNA tested, and having thinking of it for sometime. If you know organization that does this for a reasonable price, let me known. But note that I'm interest in a fine breakdown of male chromosome information; I'm reasonably certain that I am of 100% European descent, so what I would be looking for is a finer breakdown, e.g. Celtic vs. Scandinavian. It tends to cost good deal more to get the more detailed info.

~~
Speaking of minority anger, the minority today that needs to be a lot angrier is the poor -- whatever their race. I have an hunch that today the ongoing race issue tends to cloak for the even more widespread issue of poverty.

Actually a degree of majority anger is becoming apropos what with the weakening of the middle class, (of all races), in the USA and Western countries due to the increasing concentration of wealth AND political power in the hands of the <1%.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sir T, I'm not sure what it is you think I disagree with.

Certainly slavery AND subsequent racism are abhorrent. It is disgusting the poor white antebellum farmers and workers in the South embraced racism that, in reality, served primarily wealthy plantation owners. It is disgusting that Southern white racists were allowed to impose the 'Jim Crow' laws after Reconstruction. It is disgusting the men of learning and stature such as Woodrow Wilson were racists and introduce segregation is areas like the Federal civil service where it hadn't been before. It is disgusting the lightly veiled racism one hears directed at Barrack Obama. And it's disgusting to hear lightly veiled racism today from the likes of Tea Party supporters.

Blacks have a right to be angry. But anger is one thing, hate and slander of whites is another. If neutrality is the goal, tolerance -- from both sides -- is a step along the way.

I must ask Feanor, why is it okay for whites to hate and slander Blacks and Latinos, but it is not okay for Blacks and Latino's(out of sheer anger and frustration) to feel the same way? Your comments while intellectually correct are completely devoid of the emotional impact of nearly 500 years of inequality, nearly 500 years of frustration, and nearly 500 years of being looked at as an animal or second class citizen(which still exist today). Racism in America is is a extremely long term problem in this country, and let's face it, it was built on it from day one. Blacks and Latino's have been more than patient in trying to achieve equality in this country. Each and every time some level of success has been achieved, the powers that be change the rules, and minorities are back to square one. You can only take this kind of treatment for so long, and then you rebel(see riots in Miami, Los Angeles, Cincinnati, New York, and so on).

I would love to have my DNA tested, and having thinking of it for sometime. If you know organization that does this for a reasonable price, let me known. But note that I'm interest in a fine breakdown of male chromosome information; I'm reasonably certain that I am of 100% European descent, so what I would be looking for is a finer breakdown, e.g. Celtic vs. Scandinavian. It tends to cost good deal more to get the more detailed info.

Feanor, unfortunately I don't know of an organization that does this test for a reasonable price. I got my done as a classroom experiment in a race relations class at USC.

~~

Speaking of minority anger, the minority today that needs to be a lot angrier is the poor -- whatever their race. I have an hunch that today the ongoing race issue tends to cloak for the even more widespread issue of poverty.

Who is the poor in America? It is Blacks and Latino's and that is a fact.

Actually a degree of majority anger is becoming apropos what with the weakening of the middle class, (of all races), in the USA and Western countries due to the increasing concentration of wealth AND political power in the hands of the <1%.

We have seen this before during the depression. Anytime whites find themselves unemployed in wide numbers, they blame either Mexican immigration, or they tend to limit the financial possibilities of blacks via institutional racism. During the depression, one all black town in the south remained very prosperous(largely because they could not do business beyond their community) because the dollar in their community change hands WITHIN the community 36 times before going outside of the community. Whites became jealous of this success, and burn the town to the ground, and killed nearly all of its residents. While we are not killing people today in mass like back then, we are killing their spirit by economically limiting them.