Open Call to Mtry, Skeptic, Naysayers, and ABXers

[okiemax]

Mid Fi is a derogatory term invented by extremely stupid snobs who want to justify the outrageous prices they paid for equipment that may be no better in many, most, or all usable respects than far cheaper equipment. One guy's ultra high end is another's mid fi. The ultra high end of today is the mid fi of tomorrow and the mid fi of today was the cutting edge of yesterday. The rationale for buying much of the most expensive equipment on the market has nothing to do with usable performance. People who think that there is a lot which can't be measured and therefore doesn't show up in tests and specifications are mostly kidding themselves. Such differences if and when they exist are generally extremely subtle if they can be heard at all. And what you consider high end, I consider a joke. Examples? A $10,000 audio amplifier that can only produce 10 watts of power. A pair of $3000 loudspeakers which cannot reproduce the lowest octave or two of audible sound. A phonograph cartridge that costs hundreds of dollars and needs 1 1/2 grams of force to track most records. Cables costing hundreds of dollars for which not one shred of evidence exists that they perform any better than Home Depot wire except in the fantasies of the guys who bought it. To me that's all Low Fi. Low Finance that is. A total waste of money on useless oversold junk. See, it's a matter of perspective.

The term "mid-fi" may be derogatory if you feel a need to be defensive about owning audio gear you suspect is mid-fi. I certainly didn't mean to be derogatory in using the term. At times, mid-fi gear was all I owned, and I didn't feel that made me less of a person. I still use mid-fi gear in my computer room. It's much better than what came with the computer, which I would call low-fi, if I can use that term without being accused of snobbery.

Your seeing "mid-fi" in print launched you into a tirade. I don't understand why you react with such strong emotion to the fact that some people believe they can improve their listening enjoyment by buying better components. In what way have they harmed you?

[Resident Loser]

...I believe you are quite mistaken...In this arena, the term is usually used as one of derision and is hardly the result of some sort of self-loathing, contrary to your opinion.

I, for the most part, usually use the term as sarcasm in correspondence with the "golden-eared" among us who use it, with regularity, as some sort of arbiter of hearing ability...

One can achieve excellent results with well-chosen "mid-if" stuff and for a fraction of the price of the "salon" gear, new or used.

"...Your seeing "mid-fi" in print launched you into a tirade..."

Hardly a tirade IMO, seems a reasonable estimate of the genre, albeit a startlingly frank one...

"...I don't understand why you react with such strong emotion to the fact that some people believe they can improve their listening enjoyment by buying better components. ..."

"...believe they can improve their listening enjoyment..." Which opens a whole 'nother can of worms...and brings us right back to square one, beliefs and facts may be mutually exclusive and there is no accounting for what may seem to "improve their listening enjoyment"...

" In what way have they harmed you?"

That's not the point, skep and the rest of "us" know better...however there are those who don't!

jimHJJ(...both sides of the story and all that...)

[okiemax]

...I believe you are quite mistaken...In this arena, the term is usually used as one of derision and is hardly the result of some sort of self-loathing, contrary to your opinion.

I, for the most part, usually use the term as sarcasm in correspondence with the "golden-eared" among us who use it, with regularity, as some sort of arbiter of hearing ability...

One can achieve excellent results with well-chosen "mid-if" stuff and for a fraction of the price of the "salon" gear, new or used.

"...Your seeing "mid-fi" in print launched you into a tirade..."

Hardly a tirade IMO, seems a reasonable estimate of the genre, albeit a startlingly frank one...

"...I don't understand why you react with such strong emotion to the fact that some people believe they can improve their listening enjoyment by buying better components. ..."

"...believe they can improve their listening enjoyment..." Which opens a whole 'nother can of worms...and brings us right back to square one, beliefs and facts may be mutually exclusive and there is no accounting for what may seem to "improve their listening enjoyment"...

" In what way have they harmed you?"

That's not the point, skep and the rest of "us" know better...however there are those who don't!

jimHJJ(...both sides of the story and all that...)

The term "mid-fi" is not in any dictionairy that I can find. Regardless of how it might usually be used on this Forum, the word in itself clearly is not derogatory. A Google search confirmed the word usually is used to describe a level of quality, and that is the way I used it. Certainly, "mid-fi" could be used in a deragatory way, such as in .....

Ignore the advice of the meter readers, they only know mid-fi.

Hey tin ears, ditch that mid-fi garbage and get some real gear!

Double blind yourself, you mid-fi moron!

I would expect statements such as these to provoke an angry response. However, I only used "mid-fi" in reference to performance differences in components. Perhaps the mere suggestion of performance differences provokes anger.

Although "mid-fi" may not have a dictionary definition, "tirade" does, and here is the one from Cambridge Dictionaries Online .... "a long angry speech expressing strong disapproval." Sketic's speech was long, angry, and expressed disapproval. And his calling people stupid certainly is derogatory.

Why not address the reason for the anger underlying Skeptic's tirade? Anger usually stems from fear of being hurt or from having been hurt. Obviously, he has strong feelings about isteners who claim to hear differences in components. I'll ask the question again. In what way have they harmed you?

[skeptic]

I have never said that some equipment isn't better than other equipment. Exactly the opposite. However, the term mid fi would make that distinction based on an artificial caste system and the term was invented for exactly the same reason that all caste systems are invented. Caste systems exist to promote the notion that worth is not an objective measurable attribute but is related to the mystique imbued into certain products to elevate their position far beyond their intrinsic worth at the expense of better products which do not have the same cache. Most so called high end audio equipment today falls into that category. Even where so called high end equipment outperforms so called mid fi equipment, it usually does it very marginally. The only thing that isn't marginal is the vast difference in price. The good news is that the so called mid fi of yesteryear is not in great demand because of ignorance and therefore much of it is available on the used market for far less than it would otherwise be worth.

[Resident Loser]

...there are countless words and phrases in the English language which are innocent by themselves, but take on a completely different connotation when used in specific contexts...surely, I needn't explain THAT...

As I stated, IMO, a "tirade" it was not...It wasn't all that long and it wasn't all that angry..."frank" was the word I chose...Did it become a "tirade" to you when costs vs. performance issues were cited? Not nearly as farfetched as some "performance" and "improvement" claims I've witnessed...Also, I recall only "snobs" being referred to as "stupid"...

Anger? Wasn't it Dick Nixon who said something to the effect of " in order to be angry with someone, you have to respect them"? IMHO, he quite simply doesn't suffer fools easily...

In what way have they harmed you?

None. Again, that's not the point. In fact, I could give neither feather nor fig about how anyone spends their money...most have more money than brains...however, anecdotal postings should and will continue to be treated as they have thusfar...

jimHJJ(...both sides of the story and all that...)

[okiemax]

...there are countless words and phrases in the English language which are innocent by themselves, but take on a completely different connotation when used in specific contexts...surely, I needn't explain THAT...

As I stated, IMO, a "tirade" it was not...It wasn't all that long and it wasn't all that angry..."frank" was the word I chose...Did it become a "tirade" to you when costs vs. performance issues were cited? Not nearly as farfetched as some "performance" and "improvement" claims I've witnessed...Also, I recall only "snobs" being referred to as "stupid"...

Anger? Wasn't it Dick Nixon who said something to the effect of " in order to be angry with someone, you have to respect them"? IMHO, he quite simply doesn't suffer fools easily...

In what way have they harmed you?

None. Again, that's not the point. In fact, I could give neither feather nor fig about how anyone spends their money...most have more money than brains...however, anecdotal postings should and will continue to be treated as they have thusfar...

jimHJJ(...both sides of the story and all that...)

Now that you are the official lexicographer for the AR Forums, I hope we will be seeing an AR Forums Dictionary soon. It may be difficult dividing your time between this project, and your full-time job of telling people what they can and can't hear, but an authoritive reference is long overdue. I trust other members will be eager to contribute their own unique interpretations of word meanings.

You say audiophiles haven't harmed you, and in reference to their buying expensive components, you say "I could give neither feather nor fig about how anyone spends their money." If you haven't been harmed and don't fear being harmed by audiophiles, and you don't care how they spend, what motivates your attacks on their anecdotal postings?

[Resident Loser]

"...the official lexicographer for the AR Forums..."

Like the judge says "...ignorance of the law is no excuse..."

Your unfamiliarity with the connotation of the phrase used is your problem, no one elses...your feeble attempt at sarcasm is just that...

"...telling people what they can and can't hear..."

I said this? When was that? I always tell folks to listen for themselves...but, to be aware of the potential biases involved. Also, I try to familiarize them with the laws of diminishing returns and the perils of deception from without...I make no claims since I cannot replicate all the variables involved in each unique situation...

"...unique interpretations of word meanings..."

Whose?

"...what motivates your attacks on their anecdotal postings?..."

Your choice of the word "attacks" speaks volumes...Reread the paragraph beginning with "I said this?"

jimHJJ(...pay particular attention to the "I make no claims" part...)

[okiemax]

"...the official lexicographer for the AR Forums..."

Like the judge says "...ignorance of the law is no excuse..."

Your unfamiliarity with the connotation of the phrase used is your problem, no one elses...your feeble attempt at sarcasm is just that...

"...telling people what they can and can't hear..."

I said this? When was that? I always tell folks to listen for themselves...but, to be aware of the potential biases involved. Also, I try to familiarize them with the laws of diminishing returns and the perils of deception from without...I make no claims since I cannot replicate all the variables involved in each unique situation...

"...unique interpretations of word meanings..."

Whose?

"...what motivates your attacks on their anecdotal postings?..."

Your choice of the word "attacks" speaks volumes...Reread the paragraph beginning with "I said this?"

jimHJJ(...pay particular attention to the "I make no claims" part...)

Did I mistake you for a naysayer?