Marantz SA8003 Initial Impressions

[Ajani]

Tony, dont skimp on the DAC. I'm sure the Cambridge and M are fine but they will not be in the same class as the Benchmark or PS audio. If your looking for the biggest improvement in sound then spend the extra money. The PS Audio Digital Link III has a USB port and is supposed to have a warmer sound and sells here in the U.S. for $1k. The benchmark sells for the same price. Both would be a big improvement in sound. The Cambridge and MF would be an improvement as well.

Another DAC to consider is the Van Alstine insight DAC for $899. Its well worth the money and it blew my Cambridge 840c CDP out of the water. It's a basic DAC with no frills but it has pristine sound with deep bass and leans to the warmer side slightly as all of VA's gear does. I auditioned it in my home and it was excellent. I ended up buying his more expensive Tube hybrid DAC. Give Frank Van Alstine an email and see if he would ship it to you. www.avahifi.com

Seconded...

The great thing about modern digital sources, is that products that are regarded by fans and reviewers as being legitimately high end, can be purchased new for as cheap as $900 (cheap by Audiophile standards only)... So if you spend the money and get a high quality DAC that you are really happy with, then short of winning the lotto you really don't need to give any thought to upgrading it...

However, if you buy a cheaper DAC, you may feel the need to upgrade it fairly soon... especially if it doesn't give you as much of a sonic improvement as you'd hoped...

If you are not in a rush to make a purchase, then you can wait to see what more magazines (such as Stereophile) think of the Musical Fidelity and Cambridge DACs.... I would expect one or more of these mags to compare those DACs to the more expensive Benchmark or PS Audio DAcs...

[tony340]

Thanks Blackraven!! Yes what you say is spot on.. I mean, the idea is for me to upgrade, and hence skimping on the DAC is thye last thing i should be doing.. I will send them a mail and see what they come up with.. Cheers

[tony340]

Thanks Ajani, yeah i will look into the mentioned DAC'S, cheers

[tony340]

Hey guys. I emailed Frank Van Alstine and he replied me with the shipping costs, the Insight DAC costs USD999 plus USD100 for shipping, hence total USD1099.. Now the fact is, i can also get the Rega Apollo CDP as well for the price.. Sorry i may sound silly, but its just that i want to be very sure about this upgrade, so please let me know.. I wont be buying it right now, but i would like to be certain.. Cheers

[blackraven]

Tony, the VA DAC is better than the Rega Apollo. It sounded better than my Cambridge Audio 840c which now sells for $1700 and is a much better player than the Apollo IMO. Believe me, you will be taken aback when you hear the difference a good DAC can make.

It looks like Frank raised his prices on his equipment.

[Ajani]

Hey guys. I emailed Frank Van Alstine and he replied me with the shipping costs, the Insight DAC costs USD999 plus USD100 for shipping, hence total USD1099.. Now the fact is, i can also get the Rega Apollo CDP as well for the price.. Sorry i may sound silly, but its just that i want to be very sure about this upgrade, so please let me know.. I wont be buying it right now, but i would like to be certain.. Cheers

I'm not sure how Van Alstine compares to the other DACs... but also consider the PS Audio Digital Link iii and the Benchmark DAC1 at the same price... Both the PS Audio and Benchmark have received great reviews.... I know nothing about the Van Alstine though, so I'll defer to Blackraven on that one...

When I chose between the PS Audio and the Benchmark, the deciding factor (since I couldn't audition them before buying) was features.. the PS Audio gave me a USB input (which I'd never use since I already have a Squeezebox)... while the Benchmark gave me a Headphone Amp (which I use daily) and has volume control on all its outputs (so I can use it as a preamp when I eventually add speakers and an amp to my setup)... The Benchmark is pretty much the Swiss Army Knife of High End Audio... To get a DAC, Headphone Amp and Preamp from PS Audio I'd have to pay $3K ($1K for each product)... so even if the quality might be better with PS Audio, I certainly wasn't willing to pay triple for it...

[blackraven]

On thing about the VA is that Frank has excellent customer service and offers to upgrade any of his equipment when new upgrades or models become available (for a price).

You will get a better cosmetic appearance with other brands and more features too, but VA is about value and best audio quality for the money.

I'm sure that any of these DAC's that you choose will be a big improvement in sound.

[tony340]

Thanks thanks thanks... Really appreciate both your advice.. I would have to make a decision on one of the 3, but i like the sound of the Van Alstine, seems the kind of Boutique specialized, to order products which along with your experience with it Blackraven, make it a very worthy option.. So i would consider between the Benchmark and the VA.. Cheers guys

[blackraven]

Tony, check out the Van Alstine audio forum, Audio Circles and read what people have to say about his equipment. Frank has a rather large following. Any one can join and there are a lot of people there that don't own his equipment. The forum is located in the Resources tab on his web site.

Good Luck!

[tony340]

Thanks BR I will do that, cheers..

[Ajani]

Thanks thanks thanks... Really appreciate both your advice.. I would have to make a decision on one of the 3, but i like the sound of the Van Alstine, seems the kind of Boutique specialized, to order products which along with your experience with it Blackraven, make it a very worthy option.. So i would consider between the Benchmark and the VA.. Cheers guys

Either way I suspect you'll be pretty happy with the outcome... The Benchmark is probably the 'safer' choice... but Boutique products like the Van Alstine can have mind blowing value for money... + it's pretty cool to own a relatively rare product....

[tony340]

I made a visit to the local Hi Fi mall this morning. I was accompanying a friend to purchase a mid priced CD player, and guess what: The Marantz agent is having a Christmas sale, the SA8003 is USD490! My friend who was looking for a sub $500 player got it.. Now since I'm trying to upgrade, do you think its worth for me getting one also? I mean, i could get this now and add a DAC later.. The fact is, DAC's would cost more than double this price.. Any opinions? Cheers

[Ajani]

Frankly for $490 (if I wasn't totally into Computer Audio)... I'd pick up the Marantz... that price is excellent!!!

[blackraven]

Thats a good deal on the 8003. I would buy it if money is an issue. Just make sure you use better IC cables then what come with the unit.
Have your friend bring his 8003 over to your house and give it a listen on your system and see if you liked its sound.

[MarkMark]

tony340:

I HAVE to know where you saw the steal on the SA8003. Please email, PM, (or post) that info!

The best price I've seen is $750 and was considering it at that price.

I made a visit to the local Hi Fi mall this morning. I was accompanying a friend to purchase a mid priced CD player, and guess what: The Marantz agent is having a Christmas sale, the SA8003 is USD490! My friend who was looking for a sub $500 player got it.. Now since I'm trying to upgrade, do you think its worth for me getting one also? I mean, i could get this now and add a DAC later.. The fact is, DAC's would cost more than double this price.. Any opinions? Cheers

[emaidel]

I'd suggest a good deal of caution when looking for a "deal" on the Marantz SA-8003 (or many another piece of gear). Most retailers offering very low prices on the 8003 aren't authorized Marantz dealers, and you'd be in for a real nightmare should the unit ever require servicing. Marantz will either flatly refuse to service the unit at all, or will charge you an arm and a leg to perform any needed repairs.

Marantz, and others, are deeply commited to supporting their dealer network, and are quite selective in choosing just who does, and does not, sell their products. Non-authorized dealers obtain the merchandise from other authorized dealers, and then resell the items at discounted prices just to take business away from others. This is a longstanding "dirty trick" used by retailers in the audio industry, and is referred to as "trans-shipping."

Marantz routinely checks for non-authorized sales of its products and does everything in its power to stop them. Ultimately, without such an effort on Marantz' part (or others), prices would erode, initially offering consumers better "deals," but ultimately, at the cost of resepectable retailers dropping the line and leaving the consumer holding the bag when it comes time for service.

Be careful.

[Ajani]

I'd suggest a good deal of caution when looking for a "deal" on the Marantz SA-8003 (or many another piece of gear). Most retailers offering very low prices on the 8003 aren't authorized Marantz dealers, and you'd be in for a real nightmare should the unit ever require servicing. Marantz will either flatly refuse to service the unit at all, or will charge you an arm and a leg to perform any needed repairs.

Marantz, and others, are deeply commited to supporting their dealer network, and are quite selective in choosing just who does, and does not, sell their products. Non-authorized dealers obtain the merchandise from other authorized dealers, and then resell the items at discounted prices just to take business away from others. This is a longstanding "dirty trick" used by retailers in the audio industry, and is referred to as "trans-shipping."

Marantz routinely checks for non-authorized sales of its products and does everything in its power to stop them. Ultimately, without such an effort on Marantz' part (or others), prices would erode, initially offering consumers better "deals," but ultimately, at the cost of resepectable retailers dropping the line and leaving the consumer holding the bag when it comes time for service.

Be careful.

Thanks for the info! I always wondered how non-authorized dealers got their paws on high end products... the sad part is to realize that 'carefully selected' authorized dealers are the ones who willingly supply the shady internet dealers...

[Rich-n-Texas]

See how greed works Ajani? Capitalism at it's finest!

And I agree, that was good info emaidel.

One problem. I've never understood the big attraction to Marantz. Am I wrong that they always played second fiddle to Pioneer back in the 70's?

[emaidel]

One problem. I've never understood the big attraction to Marantz. Am I wrong that they always played second fiddle to Pioneer back in the 70's?

Yes, you are wrong. Whether justifiable or not, Pioneer was considered at best only so-so by most retailers throughout the 70's, more due to the fact that everyone and his brother sold it, and making money on a piece of Pioneer equipment was all but impossible. Marantz receivers were actually a tad better performers than those from Pioneer, but the rest of the Marantz lineup then was no better than the rest of the stuff from everyone else.

Man, are you every bringing back memories!

[emaidel]

Thanks for the info! I always wondered how non-authorized dealers got their paws on high end products... the sad part is to realize that 'carefully selected' authorized dealers are the ones who willingly supply the shady internet dealers...

Trans-shipping was the bane of many a manufacturer during the heyday of the industry, and apparently, still is, at least for Marantz. Fortunately, very few of the "carefully selected" retailers were eager to sell to their neighboring, non-authorized retailers, but some were pretty blatant about it. Just as often as not, pushing a few items "out the back door" to a less worthy retailer was an easy way to get quick cash when money was tight. Apparently, many of these trans shippers felt that it really wouldn't hurt too much to sell a couple of receivers, or a few pairs of speakers to non-authorized retailers just for a quick buck. Little did they know...

Most of the time, a trans shipper will purchase only one or two items from an authorized dealer for the specific purpose of selling against that product. Sixth Avenue Electronics, back in the late 80's and early 90's was just such a retailer. They would bring in one or two pieces of a Denon item (usually a CD player), and then run an ad in the newspaper for a ridiculously low price on it. When the customer arrived, they were conveniently "sold out" of that item, but had something else that they pushed on the customer as a "better deal."

This was a very dirty business at one time.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Gee, it works just like that with car dealers. How strange.

I guess then it was the price tag that steered me away from Marantz back then. I wasn't really in an established career path so the much publicised Pioneer gear with their low low prices were the attraction.

What you'll notice about 6th Ave's website is how much they tout their 'Authorized dealer' status. I guess image and reputation is a big thing in retail. Regardless, I still won't complain about the deal I got from them for my Yamaha receiver. I'm just glad it worked out of the box.

[emaidel]

I haven't dealt with 6th Ave. Electronics for well over a decade, so I can't say for sure just what kind of retailer they are today. Still, when perusing their website, I couldn't help but notice how few items had the words "in stock" listed in their description. Most of the time it was "ships in 1-3 business days," or for even longer periods. That would be reason to give me pause.

In the DJ industry, and most likely, in the home audio/home theatre business, many a person chooses to start up an online business, and requests that his manufacturers "drop ship" merchandise for them. "Drop ship" means that the manufacturer, rather than shipping the item to the dealer, who in turn ships the product to the consumer, ships the product direct to the consumer, thereby saving the retailer the expense of either maintaining an inventory, or incurring shipping costs. In theory, the online retailer gets a customer's money, orders the item that day from the manufacturer, and the manufacturer then ships the item, at the manufacturer's expense, directly to the consumer.

The whole idea of such a situation is anathema to many a manufacturer, as the online retailer does little more than put together a webpage and then sit back and make money at everyone else's expense. Most manufacturers refuse to drop ship, since to do so incurs numerous headaches for the manufacturer, specifically, having UPS, or whomever the carrier, make numerous attempts at deliveries since the consumer more often than not, isn't home. Each attempt at another delivery costs the shipper (the manufacturer, in this case) more and more money.

Then, there's the issue of damaged goods.

An authorized online retailer, who maintains an inventory of merchandise, will often replace a damaged item with a new unit, and return the damaged unit to the manufacturer. A shady, non-authorized online dealer will leave the resolution of the damage to the consumer and just walk away. I've read of many instances where the "customer service" at 6th Ave. Electronics was all but non-existent.

If your Yamaha unit worked right out of the box, I'd say you were lucky. There are two ways to tell if the merchandise received from a retailer was legit: one is to examine whether or not the serial number has been removed from either the unit, or the carton, and the other is to see if somewhere on the carton, the original shipping label has either been removed altogether (a common practice), or a new one plastered over the old one. The "old" shipping label is the one for the authorized dealer who bought the item in the first place, which the non-authorized dealer will make every effort to eliminate.

As I mentioned initially regarding Marantz, manufacturers not only refuse to honor warranties on items purchased from non authorized dealers, but some refuse service altogehter. That's a pretty good reason to shop carefully.

[emaidel]

In all fairness to 6th Ave. Electronics, they are indeed authorized Denon and Yamaha retailers. Apparently, much has changed in the time since I originally dealt with them many years back.

[Ajani]

I haven't dealt with 6th Ave. Electronics for well over a decade, so I can't say for sure just what kind of retailer they are today. Still, when perusing their website, I couldn't help but notice how few items had the words "in stock" listed in their description. Most of the time it was "ships in 1-3 business days," or for even longer periods. That would be reason to give me pause.

In the DJ industry, and most likely, in the home audio/home theatre business, many a person chooses to start up an online business, and requests that his manufacturers "drop ship" merchandise for them. "Drop ship" means that the manufacturer, rather than shipping the item to the dealer, who in turn ships the product to the consumer, ships the product direct to the consumer, thereby saving the retailer the expense of either maintaining an inventory, or incurring shipping costs. In theory, the online retailer gets a customer's money, orders the item that day from the manufacturer, and the manufacturer then ships the item, at the manufacturer's expense, directly to the consumer.

The whole idea of such a situation is anathema to many a manufacturer, as the online retailer does little more than put together a webpage and then sit back and make money at everyone else's expense. Most manufacturers refuse to drop ship, since to do so incurs numerous headaches for the manufacturer, specifically, having UPS, or whomever the carrier, make numerous attempts at deliveries since the consumer more often than not, isn't home. Each attempt at another delivery costs the shipper (the manufacturer, in this case) more and more money.

Then, there's the issue of damaged goods.

An authorized online retailer, who maintains an inventory of merchandise, will often replace a damaged item with a new unit, and return the damaged unit to the manufacturer. A shady, non-authorized online dealer will leave the resolution of the damage to the consumer and just walk away. I've read of many instances where the "customer service" at 6th Ave. Electronics was all but non-existent.

If your Yamaha unit worked right out of the box, I'd say you were lucky. There are two ways to tell if the merchandise received from a retailer was legit: one is to examine whether or not the serial number has been removed from either the unit, or the carton, and the other is to see if somewhere on the carton, the original shipping label has either been removed altogether (a common practice), or a new one plastered over the old one. The "old" shipping label is the one for the authorized dealer who bought the item in the first place, which the non-authorized dealer will make every effort to eliminate.

As I mentioned initially regarding Marantz, manufacturers not only refuse to honor warranties on items purchased from non authorized dealers, but some refuse service altogehter. That's a pretty good reason to shop carefully.

To add to your point: some manufacturers (Revel for example) will not honor any warranty from a non-authorized dealer (but will service for a fee)... but they also take it a step further and will not even provide a paid servicing, if the serial number on the product has been in anyway tampered with... So if you bought from some shady Internet dealer and they replaced the serial number, then you are screwed if the product needs repairs...

[tony340]

Sorry fellows, i did not log onto AR for sometime, anyway happy new year to u all!!
The Marantz agent in Singapore was the one who had the 8003 going for the price (SGD750 OR USD490). If ur interested Mark, i can post you their contact details.