Best CD player for around 1K HELP

[vansonrider]

Hello,

Hello fellow Audio buffs. I’m looking to upgrade my CD player in my system. It’s a Sony CDP-C745 5 disk changer with optical out. I upgraded once to a HK fl8450 but the stupid thing died on me. The Sony is about 7 years old and has been faithful. I think it’s one of the weakest links in my system but I do love the changer feature. I know some audiophiles may scoff at the thought of a changer but I love the convenience. I’m willing to go single if I have to but would prefer a changer. My system is a follows.

Anthem AVM 20 1.12
Citation 7.1 x 2 amps
Revel M20 mains
Atlantic technologies center (I looking for a Revel C30)
Dynaudio audience 40 rears
Audioquest Mammoth speaker cables
Cardas interconnect to all sources
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD
JVC direct view TV
No sub I live in an apartment

I think my system is fairly good. Hey I'm trying...... I am willing to spend $700 to 1K on a player. Any suggestions and how should I hook it up?

Thanks
Vansonrider

[mtrycraft]

Hello,

Hello fellow Audio buffs. I’m looking to upgrade my CD player in my system. It’s a Sony CDP-C745 5 disk changer with optical out. I upgraded once to a HK fl8450 but the stupid thing died on me. The Sony is about 7 years old and has been faithful. I think it’s one of the weakest links in my system but I do love the changer feature. I know some audiophiles may scoff at the thought of a changer but I love the convenience. I’m willing to go single if I have to but would prefer a changer. My system is a follows.
I think my system is fairly good. Hey I'm trying...... I am willing to spend $700 to 1K on a player. Any suggestions and how should I hook it up?

Thanks
Vansonrider

Why do you think your Sony is the weak link? If anything, your speakers, your room and the recoded music are your weak links. Keep the Sony untill it dies. Then get a universal player for around $200.

[musicman1999]

i am also looking for a new cd player in this range as well.i have been looking at the new cambridge audio 640c($699 cdn),arcam cd73($999 cdn) also the latest rotel offering,dont remember the model number,but it was also about $1000 cdn.after careful listening the arcam was the clear winner,but the cambridge was close and $300 chaeper.you have good quality gear,and plugging either of these players into you rig,will make you think you upgraded your whole system.find a dealer that will let you bring one home if you can,that is the only way to really judge.good luck

[Arch]

I just went through the same selection process for a new CD player. Rotel RCD-1072 vs Arcam CD73t vs Cambridge Audio Azur 640c. I made the same conclusion as musicman1999. In the end I picked the Cambridge for its performance / price, and taking into consideration that the rest of my setup are now outmatched by the Cambridge. If you do have a system that can take advantage of the improved quality of the source, then Arcam it is.

[robin_v]

I just went through the same selection process for a new CD player. Rotel RCD-1072 vs Arcam CD73t vs Cambridge Audio Azur 640c. I made the same conclusion as musicman1999. In the end I picked the Cambridge for its performance / price, and taking into consideration that the rest of my setup are now outmatched by the Cambridge. If you do have a system that can take advantage of the improved quality of the source, then Arcam it is.

Somebody asked me to have a look at the Cambridge D500SE CD player for them. This I agreed to do. The more I examined this unpretentious little player, the more I liked what I saw, A major plus is the upgrade capability of the player. Current sampling rates are about 24 bits at the moment. This is included in the CD player BUT, should even higher sampling rates become available in the future, Cambridge have built this little beauty with a view to being upgraded, as technology developes. This is a nice feature.

Instead of wondering whether one needs to upgrade to a whole new 48 bit sampling CD player, for instance, one simply needs to upgrade a PCB inside the player.

The long and the short of it is that I ended up buying one for myself. I'm still burning it in but it is opening like a tender rosebud. Every session has it sounding sweeter and sweeter.This is after about 50 hours of playing time. They recommend 200 hours for it to reach it's best. I'll keep you posted.

I paid about 2500 SEK for this CD player (about $350) from the Swedish HiFi Club and it's at a price where one can afford to take a chance to have something to compare with.

What I didn't like about it was the fact that the text over the control buttons are extremely difficult to read. One needs 20-20 vision to see what each button is. However, after just a little practice, one gets to know which button does what.

With the introduction of the Azur series, shops are dumping the prices on the Classic series and this is an added bonus for the end buyer.

[Robert Seletsky]

i am also looking for a new cd player in this range as well.i have been looking at the new cambridge audio 640c($699 cdn),arcam cd73($999 cdn) also the latest rotel offering,dont remember the model number,but it was also about $1000 cdn.after careful listening the arcam was the clear winner,but the cambridge was close and $300 chaeper.you have good quality gear,and plugging either of these players into you rig,will make you think you upgraded your whole system.find a dealer that will let you bring one home if you can,that is the only way to really judge.good luck

---------
Hi,
I have used an HK HD-710 for years: very sweet, open, transparent sound. I just got--new--an HK HD-720 as a second deck, thinking myself lucky. It looks identical, except for a flimsy CD drawer, but sounds very different--really aggressive and bright. I wondered if anyone knows this unit and whether or not playing it in--and for how many hours--will make it less harsh. Thanks.

Robert Seletsky

[hertz]

Hi Mtry, skeptic,
I am very well aware of this loudness factor in cd players and I am very carefull when I do comparisons.
What I observe are as follows:
1.soundstage
2.depth
3.tonal accuracy (digital glare vs natural)
4.tonal balance
5.sheer musicality

I use the "burmester test cd" for most of my evaluations.
The tracks:
1.Melissa Walker: A time for Love
2.Gil Shaham and Göran Söllscher: Sonata Concertata
3.John Lee Hooker: Early one morning
4. Bennie Wallace: It's The Talk of the Town
5.Gioacchino Rossini: Sonata I G-Dur
6.Hans Theessink: The Planet
7.Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov: Allegro Molto
8.Bach Orgelwerke 1: von Hans-Jürgen Schnoor
9.Hugh Masekela: Stimela
10.Yim Hok-Man: Poem of Chinese Drums

I noticed that each of the cd players cast their own signature on all these factors.This friend of mine actually spend 3 months trying out different cd players at his home before he settled on the roksan cd player.The fact is that none of the cd players were perfect.He just picked up the one which had flaws he can live with.I liked the marantz better.

[skeptic]

Again, it is important to understand what the differences are, not merely that they exist. The car I now drive has an electronic throttle and a 290 HP engine. When it was first designed the action of the throttle made the car feel very sluggish because it didn't deliver the gobs of reserve power it had until the gas pedal was almost completely depressed. At that point as one mechanic explained it, it took off like a bat out of hell. The throttle was redesigned so that it "felt" more powerful. The same thing happens with a lot of products. An amplifier or reciever which gives you most of its gain in the first quarter turn of the volume control knob seems very powerful but it isn't necessarily any more powerful than the one sitting next to it which needs the knob turned to 1 or 2 o'clock for the same amount of gain. Two cd players may be virtually identical in every other respect but one sounds slightly diffferent because of minor frequency response shaping that the manufacturer knows will make it sound preferable to many users compared to other units sitting next to it on a shelf. This is pure illusion. And it can easily be duplicated or compensated for at low cost. Unless someone can demonstrate why the performance of one is superior to another by showing inherently better electrical characteristics that are of real value, I'm not buying it. And they can't because this is a product that has reached full maturity. It's one of those things where it's performance is so close to its theoretical limit within its paradyme that one unit is pretty much like another except for its features. And for me, that means 4 way repeat, a remote controllable volume control with variable output, and hopefully a 5 disc carousel with ply one while change at least 2. And please keep it well under $200. That's what is meant when we say a product is comoditized.

[mtrycraft]

Hi Mtry, skeptic,
I am very well aware of this loudness factor in cd players and I am very carefull when I do comparisons.
What I observe are as follows:
1.soundstage
2.depth
3.tonal accuracy (digital glare vs natural)
4.tonal balance
5.sheer musicality

I use the "burmester test cd" for most of my evaluations.
The tracks:
1.Melissa Walker: A time for Love
2.Gil Shaham and Göran Söllscher: Sonata Concertata
3.John Lee Hooker: Early one morning
4. Bennie Wallace: It's The Talk of the Town
5.Gioacchino Rossini: Sonata I G-Dur
6.Hans Theessink: The Planet
7.Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov: Allegro Molto
8.Bach Orgelwerke 1: von Hans-Jürgen Schnoor
9.Hugh Masekela: Stimela
10.Yim Hok-Man: Poem of Chinese Drums

I noticed that each of the cd players cast their own signature on all these factors.This friend of mine actually spend 3 months trying out different cd players at his home before he settled on the roksan cd player.The fact is that none of the cd players were perfect.He just picked up the one which had flaws he can live with.I liked the marantz better.

Yes, you may be very careful. Did you check the level differences, to .1dB? At 1kHz? 10kHz?
If not, how do you know one wasn't louder?

It seems you are using only one CD and swap. Even more reason for a DBT listening as your memory wonders. Sighted comparisons for what you are after, audible differences, is just unreliable.

[hertz]

Why do you think your Sony is the weak link? If anything, your speakers, your room and the recoded music are your weak links. Keep the Sony untill it dies. Then get a universal player for around $200.

Hi Mtrycraft,
What if somebody has good speakers, rooms and good recordings? Then, do you think a good cd player will make a difference ?
I have an audiophile friend who has an almost perfect room, musical fidility power and pre amps and dynaudio contour floor standing speakers.He has further tweaked his room with bass traps.Once you turn the music on, I almost get an errie feeling because of the realism in the reproduced sound. He has roksan and marantz cd players and a harman kardon dvd player.We have tried out all these in his music system.In fact I have checked out my nad cd player in his system.It is as clear as night and day that all of them sound different.Some of them differ slightly but some others are quite different.In fact I can clearly make out differences in his system if I change cables also.
But these things are not so apparant with my system which is not so high end and the room is less that perfect.I guess the bottom line is that, if you have a transparent system and a good room, all these differences suddenly becomes clear to you.

[mtrycraft]

Hi Mtrycraft,
What if somebody has good speakers, rooms and good recordings? Then, do you think a good cd player will make a difference ?
I have an audiophile friend who has an almost perfect room, musical fidility power and pre amps and dynaudio contour floor standing speakers.He has further tweaked his room with bass traps.Once you turn the music on, I almost get an errie feeling because of the realism in the reproduced sound. He has roksan and marantz cd players and a harman kardon dvd player.We have tried out all these in his music system.In fact I have checked out my nad cd player in his system.It is as clear as night and day that all of them sound different.Some of them differ slightly but some others are quite different.In fact I can clearly make out differences in his system if I change cables also.
But these things are not so apparant with my system which is not so high end and the room is less that perfect.I guess the bottom line is that, if you have a transparent system and a good room, all these differences suddenly becomes clear to you.

Your hearing is still the limiting factor. It has limits. Psychoacoustic reasearch over the past number of deacdes has shown that you will hear small volume differences as better sound. And, volume differences you need to differentiate varies with overall volume.
With louder sound you need smaller differences to detect but there is a limit what you can detect. Low levels may need as much as 3dB change to detect. Frequency response of the ear is also limited and need higher levels and higher differences at either end of the spectrum.

I seriously doubt that a well designed CD/DVD player is audibly different. One only needs to check the frequency response specs for that.

What will affect your perception is the good old bias issues in a sighted comparison

In a DBt you also need to set it up technically so the levels in each player is the exact same, to a very close tolerance for which you need instruments, not by ear.

Cables, unless they are not even closely comparable is a no brainer. Nothing there, especially if the receiver is doing the digital processing for all the players.

So, in the end, you need to do a DBT to be sure

[skeptic]

I seriously doubt that a well designed CD/DVD player is audibly different. One only needs to check the frequency response specs for that.


Cables, unless they are not even closely comparable is a no brainer. Nothing there, especially if the receiver is doing the digital processing for all the players.

IMO, from recent experience, minor differences in frequency response between one cd player and another make them audibly slightly different. The illusion is that one is actually better than the other. Pure nonsense. By compensating for this difference with slight tweaking of equalization, the differences can be completely cancelled out.

My main gripe about cd and dvd players is that they should have a variable output that they can be controlled with the same remote control that operated the rest of the player. Since my preamps and amplifiers mostly have manual only volume controls, I find it very inconvenient getting up every time I want to change it. I also need 4 way repeat for the musician in my household who uses it as a practicing aid. This was common on $200 players 15 years ago. Why isn't it parctically universal today.

As for interconnect cables, I have given a very easy test for determining whether or not they do their job perfectly. The $1 RS cables do. So do the cables that come with most equipment. Can companies which want to manufacture a cable that sounds different come up with something that does succeed? I have every confidence that the infinitely inventive human mind can find a way to wreck even the simplest device. If those audiophile cables attenuate the high end of your sound system because of their enormous shunt capacitance thereby reducing the shrill high frequency peak in a pair of audiophile loudspeakers that makes high mass mc cartridges sound listenable but cd players sound unbearable, maybe in this case, two wrongs do cancel out a right, but the way I see it, the current approach to buying audiophile equipment is completely off the wall. That's what keeps these people in business.

[musicman1999]

Your hearing is still the limiting factor. It has limits. Psychoacoustic reasearch over the past number of deacdes has shown that you will hear small volume differences as better sound. And, volume differences you need to differentiate varies with overall volume.
With louder sound you need smaller differences to detect but there is a limit what you can detect. Low levels may need as much as 3dB change to detect. Frequency response of the ear is also limited and need higher levels and higher differences at either end of the spectrum.

I seriously doubt that a well designed CD/DVD player is audibly different. One only needs to check the frequency response specs for that.

What will affect your perception is the good old bias issues in a sighted comparison

In a DBt you also need to set it up technically so the levels in each player is the exact same, to a very close tolerance for which you need instruments, not by ear.

Cables, unless they are not even closely comparable is a no brainer. Nothing there, especially if the receiver is doing the digital processing for all the players.

So, in the end, you need to do a DBT to be sure

while i do agree with you thatb many people will hear louder as better,these are casual listeners only.any serious listener should be capable of picking up differences in cd players as well as any type of component.any test of quality players,played through the same system,with the same music,at the same volumn level will reveal differences and no two players are the same.i have recently been through this myself in a search for a new player(cambridge audio,arcam,sim audio with a denon dvd-2200 thown in for comparison)
and while the results of a dbt would have been interesting,i doubt they would have been different.

[skeptic]

While there are minor differences in some players compared to others, because these are attributable to slight differences in frequency response, it is impossible to say that one player is better than another. It is also ludicrous to justify the huge disparity in cost when this type of difference is not only barely audible but easily and cheaply compensated for. Any real differences in performance would show up as differences in dynamic linearity and non linear distortion. But virtually every player far exceeds the ability of human beings to detect whatever minor differences in these regards exist. To those who think that equalization is process that should never be allowed in high quality audio systems, you not only are not knowledgeable about the way analog tapes, phonograph records, and FM broadcasts work, you don't understand what a loudspeaker crossover network is either. Therefore, you will be forever condemned to pay exhorbitantly high prices for equipment that performs no better than much less expensive equipment in an effort to achieve audibly flat frequency response without the use of inexpensive active equalization.

[mtrycraft]

while i do agree with you thatb many people will hear louder as better,these are casual listeners only.any serious listener should be capable of picking up differences in cd players as well as any type of component.any test of quality players,played through the same system,with the same music,at the same volumn level will reveal differences and no two players are the same.i have recently been through this myself in a search for a new player(cambridge audio,arcam,sim audio with a denon dvd-2200 thown in for comparison)
and while the results of a dbt would have been interesting,i doubt they would have been different.

Well, there are a great deal of DBT data that is contrary to your belief on audible differences.
Yes, it would have been very interesting to put your perception to the real lie detector. You didn't and now you don't know if there are audible differences, only think there is and is unreliable.

[bturk667]

I like the Rega Research Planet 2000, it is @ $900.

[dennis]

I like the Rega Research Planet 2000, it is @ $900.

The best cd player under $1000 is a "used" REGA PLANET .You can pick one up for around $400-$500....It's the sweetest sounding cd player this side of $1500!!!! READ THE REVIEWS

[bturk667]

I own the original Planet.

[plextor guy]

No offense but paying a G note for a cd player is insane. For about 700 less buy soemthing every bit as good as the niche market cd players (excluding tube/ss hybrids for those with a taste for the 'warm' ) and far more versatile - a Samsung DVD-HD931 for example. Funny how cd players are becoming what turn tables were about 15 years ago - championed by a few but ultimately obsolete.

[happy ears]

By this logic we all should drive the cheapest cars that are sold as it will go from A to B and back as the most expensive one does. The person I am working with has 3 snowmobiles and 2 quads does this make him insane as well. Maybe these are toys and a hobby for him, heck one of those sleds goes like a bat out of hell. I will ride it but never buy one for myself, just not my thing. Also should we all by the same type and size of house because one model fits everybody’s needs. If I had never bought a stereo, CD player, records, saved all the money from the meals I bought and the wine that I drank with it I still would not be able to afford Skeptic's house. I do not tell him not to buy it, heck go for it I would if I could. Given a choice having a life or sitting at home doing nothing I will pick having a good time. Should have gave Bill Gates $500.00 when he was desperate for money.

If you think the CD player costs too much do not even look at the bill for all the CD's. Heck I do not like to think about how much this adds up to. Honestly if you do not hear a difference buy the cheap one because anything more than that would be a waste of money for you, no insult intended. I bought a cheap pioneer CD player which did not impress me my father has it now, so you better add another $300.00 to the bill. Does the Samsung player get me a beer when I need one; maybe it plays two CD's at the same time that would be neat.

If you cannot afford the upscale models I fully understand, as I have been there myself. Unwilling to pay for the next model up I also understand. If you do not hear any difference there is no need to waste your money. But when you start telling me what I can hear and how much to spend it is a totally different story. Still think that everything costs twice as much as it should and I only make half as much money as I'm worth.

Oh, someone should tell the Radio Shack store I was in today that records are obsolete and ancient. Wait, that's exactly what the young kids told me at Circuit City one day, CD's are obsolete and everyone knows that MP3's are the only way to listen to music. Then they told me that they had 40,000 songs and did not pay for one of them, to which I said, is it correct to steal from the musicians. Apparently music is free because it is public information but they wouldn't give me free software.

Have A Great Day

[plextor guy]

You're comparing snowmobiles and houses to cdp's? You might as well compare digital watches to brands of herbal tea. CDP's are in fact obsolete. Way obsolete. Terms like 'revealing' are laughable. The only more wasteful hardware purchase ('high-end' cdp that is) would be high dollar interconnects.

[Sealed]

You're comparing snowmobiles and houses to cdp's? You might as well compare digital watches to brands of herbal tea. CDP's are in fact obsolete. Way obsolete. Terms like 'revealing' are laughable. The only more wasteful hardware purchase ('high-end' cdp that is) would be high dollar interconnects.

It is readily appearent that your presence here is just to troll, and thread-crap.

It is obvious you have never heard a high end system, nor are you an audiophile.

You don't belong in this thread.

Enjoy your mp3's. Ignorance is bliss.

[plextor guy]

Angry? Yes. I've came to the conclusion long ago that 80% of audio enthusiasm is based on nothing. It is an industry that is out of control in terms of hype. It is an arena where non technical people can aspire to look knowledgeable through the use of non technical, unproveable claims. All any newb wanting high quuality playback need know is that you must have speakers you like listening to, pay attention to how the speakers are placed in the room they occupy and that high quality source material makes all the difference in the world. EVERYTHING else is details. If you're being honest with yourself you'll admit that this is the truth.

[Tourist On Tilt]

If you cannot afford the upscale models I fully understand, as I have been there myself. Unwilling to pay for the next model up I also understand. If you do not hear any difference there is no need to waste your money. But when you start telling me what I can hear and how much to spend it is a totally different story. Still think that everything costs twice as much as it should and I only make half as much money as I'm worth.

Well said.

[Sealed]

No offense but paying a G note for a cd player is insane. For about 700 less buy soemthing every bit as good as the niche market cd players (excluding tube/ss hybrids for those with a taste for the 'warm' ) and far more versatile - a Samsung DVD-HD931 for example. Funny how cd players are becoming what turn tables were about 15 years ago - championed by a few but ultimately obsolete.

UMM..bad idea...very bad idea.

My system is ruthlessly revealing of any flaw in the chain. The least expensive cd player that is listenable on my system is thr AMC cd-8/solid state version. But there are cd players under and over $1k that have poor internal sheilding, cheap analog section and poor parts. That manifests itself in harshness that comes through (clearly) on a high resolution system.

The major design flaw of small and cheap cd player is that the power supply/switching p/s is too close to the motherboard and other sensitive components and the resultant mess gets amplified. The idea here is to achieve HIGH fidelity...not crap in=crap out.

One of those Samsung multi-carousel/cheap/ $100 multiplayer dvd's is virtually unlistenable at worst, poorly detailed or thin and unmusical at best. It would be like putting a $49 PC cd output into a hifi. I have a Technics DVD-A-10 , and the harshness on cd playback is very obvious. And no, it's not malfunctioning.

I have been there, tried that, and it sounds very bad.

Vinyl is not championed by just a few. In fact, I just bought a great turntable. In the past year, SACD sold 100,000 units. Vinyl sold 600,000 units, and that's just NEW sales. Give me a used $300 Rega p3 deck with an $80 cart over any cd player under $2k any day.