Using Cables as Tone Controls

Using Cables as Tone Controls

In some discussions over at AK, one member has repeatedly discussed his use of various cables as Tone Controls. After reading his posts and results, and coming accross a pair of ICs that I have had for some time now, I was able to tame a particular setup by using this set of cables between my OPPO93, which I think lacks bass output in Analog mode, and my Rotel 1052 Integrated.

When I first got the OPPO, I posted my impressions here as well as in the Official thread at AVS. I got various responses around break-in and related gear, but nothing about cabling.

Secondly, this setup using the OPPO for CD playback driven by the Rotel feeds a pair of JM Labs Tantal 509s, which like most lower level JMs or Focals lack deep bass. Distinct and detailed yes, just no extension.

A few weeks ago I had to re-arrange a few components in my rack due to the Integra 30.3 giving off lots of heat with no room above it in the 7" shelf. While re cabling everything back up, and not even remembering where this set of ICs were, I decided to put them in the main setup between Pre and Amp in place of the regularly used Synergistic Research ICs. I did not like the sound compared to the Synergistic cables. Dark and bassey and lacking a little of the detail I was used to. I removed the ICs and put the SRs back to regain my expected sound.

Next, since I got my Hafler Pre-Amp repaired and back in place in the gym along with it's 9180 amp driving a pair of Polk Monitor 30s, I tried the cables there again between pre and amp. Way too much base output and I ended up using the tone controls, Bass all the way down and Treble all the way up to compensate.

So after my discussions over at AK, I decided to try the cables in my OPPO Rotel setup. All I can say is WOW, they solved 2 problems. The OPPO is no longer shy on bass and neither are the JMs. I put a pair of Tara Labs Quantum CX ICs in the Hafler setup and ended up with a much mellower sound without too much bass.

So what are the cables that did so much magic in my system? A pair of Groneberg Series 3 ICs made in Germany and purchased through Odyssey way back when I bought my Stratos Amp. By the way, they use the same cable for the internal wiring of all Odyssey amps which may contribute to the bass output they give, who knows.

Anyway, I just decided to look at the Odyssey page and found an interesting blurb;

""As a matter of fact, these cables, and especially the Quattro Reference cables for their specific price/performance ratio is so good that we decided to use only Groneberg cables in our Stratos amplifiers exclusively. Klaus Bunge

Designed and manufactured in Germany, this cable offers a very high value and performance. No need to use different cables for different signals. Patented Groneberg design (DE 43 36 230 C1) in TS Premium and Quattro Reference models solves the problem and cable can be configured for different purposes: IC, Idigital cooax, loudspeaker cable and power cord. One cable to rule them all.

Do not be reluctant to give this cable a try, maybe there are better ones, but they are much more expensive, and cheaper competitors stay far behind from the performance Groneberg cable achieves. Several reviews in Germany and Europe have rated this cable over products from other famous brands, you'll be surprised.

Groneberg Quattro Reference: Patented design for optimized and constant electron flow • Four conductor lines • Stabilizing inner core • Shielding braid • Excellent soundstage, detail and deep bass reproduction • Harmonics coherent • delicate and revealing mids & highs • Excellent voice reproduction • 530 pF/m • Propietary jacket formulation.

Groneberg Serie 3: Stripped version of Quattro Reference • Shielding braid • Open and detailed sound • Good bass extension • Slightly warm sound • 240 pF/m • Propietary jacket formulation. ""

Anyone here have a similar experience? Speaker cable or ICs? I don't notice as much of a drastic change in speaker cables between two quality constructed similar pairs as I do between various ICs.

I think cables can make a difference in your system. I once purchased a pair of IC's that were made from silver coated copper. At first I was pleased with the midrange and female vocalists. In two weeks I could not stand to listen to my stereo. Recently using my AntiCables I loved them when I first received them. Later when I twisted them I began to miss instrumental textures and the cables gave a glassy sound. Now that they are untwisted I am very happy with them again.

Cables can be used as tone controls and sometimes add tones you did not want.

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Originally Posted by Hyfi

Using Cables as Tone Controls

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Strictly speaking, I think that is a bad idea. Having said that, there certainly is great variance in the perceived sound of all sorts of cabling. I think the most important aspect is matching. Evaluating a cable by itself it virtually useless. A cable becomes part of the system between the two attached devices and affects both. One of the reasons basic red and white cabling sounds poor is because it has high capacitance. I've measured some at around 250pf / meter! Depending on the interaction, a high value can cause dullness or with others it can cause HF ringing.

The best cabling I've heard has a very low dielectric constant (capacitance x inductance), good shielding and solid connectors. Speaker cabling is fundamentally no different and depends upon the speaker and what's driving it.

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

Strictly speaking, I think that is a bad idea. Having said that, there certainly is great variance in the perceived sound of all sorts of cabling. I think the most important aspect is matching. Evaluating a cable by itself it virtually useless. A cable becomes part of the system between the two attached devices and affects both. One of the reasons basic red and white cabling sounds poor is because it has high capacitance. I've measured some at around 250pf / meter! Depending on the interaction, a high value can cause dullness or with others it can cause HF ringing.

The best cabling I've heard has a very low dielectric constant (capacitance x inductance), good shielding and solid connectors. Speaker cabling is fundamentally no different and depends upon the speaker and what's driving it.

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E-Stat... after reading much of you keen insightful postings over at Audioasylum I know you certainly know more about our hobby than I, but I don't think its altogether a bad idea.

One can certainly use cables to tone his system weather it be too bright or too boring. I've certainly found cable and speaker wire that I find does a fine job letting all the detail through and giving me a tone I love.

I too have discovered that cabling and speaker wire is just like the many components that make up our system. That is why I use the same speaker wire and interconnects as well as phono cabling from the same series and manufacturer. It acts as one single component.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

E-Stat... after reading much of you keen insightful postings over at Audioasylum I know you certainly know more about our hobby than I, but I don't think its altogether a bad idea.

One can certainly use cables to tone his system weather it be too bright or too boring.

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I agree with E-Stat. It is a bad idea :)

Considering that job of a cable is to transfer signal from point A to point B with minimum loss and attenuation, then it is not doing its job if in any way effect the signal it is carrying...even if it is for better.

Cable signature is undesirable effect in electronic world and cable will be labeled defective if have any type of signature (good or bad).

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

...use cables to tone his system weather it be too bright or too boring.

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I'm not sure how any cable can "fix" a boring system. Sure, you can rob the top end (along with resolution) with cheap cables for sure. I just think there are better ways to handle brightness.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

I too have discovered that cabling and speaker wire is just like the many components that make up our system. That is why I use the same speaker wire and interconnects as well as phono cabling from the same series and manufacturer. It acts as one single component.

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There's certainly nothing wrong with that approach.

After recently purchasing a few different pairs of IC's, I can see how you can make changes in your system's sound with cables. The Audio Nirvana cables have rolled off highs and a warmer sound. The Tara Lab cables that I have produce deeper bass and extended highs and are more musical. The top end is too hot for my system though. My reference cable are my Blue Jean Cables which have the most even sound. My favorite cable is my AudioQuest Corals from HCM audio. They lean on the warmer side and have a smoother high end than the BJC's. These changes are not subtle and are readily apparent.

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Originally Posted by Smokey

I agree with E-Stat. It is a bad idea :)

Considering that job of a cable is to transfer signal from point A to point B with minimum loss and attenuation, then it is not doing its job if in any way effect the signal it is carrying...even if it is for better.

Cable signature is undesirable effect in electronic world and cable will be labeled defective if have any type of signature (good or bad).

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And you have experience with cables now or just what you have read?

A cable with a signature sound is no different than a brand of receivers or amps with a "House Sound" such as Rotel gear.

A cable that seriously degrades the sound would be defective. I don't think my Synergistic cables are defective and I love what they do for the sound of my main system. When you save up enough to get some higher end gear you can then see for yourself that everything you read and all the DBT Naysayer camp stances may not always be the gospel.

Here's a question for thought. How do you know if a cable or piece of equipment is giving the right sonic signature? There is no right answer! Every piece of gear does impart some sonic signature. When music is recorded and mixed, it is on different gear and tuned to a particular sound on that gear.

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Originally Posted by blackraven

Here's a question for thought. How do you know if a cable or piece of equipment is giving the right sonic signature? There is no right answer! Every piece of gear does impart some sonic signature. When music is recorded and mixed, it is on different gear and tuned to a particular sound on that gear.

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That is exactly why we have so many options and cables and tweaks to get the sound to just as each of us like it.

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Originally Posted by blackraven

Here's a question for thought. How do you know if a cable or piece of equipment is giving the right sonic signature?

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The way my reviewer friends attack this question for really any component under review is to use it with different systems to get a better feel for what that component's signature is.

I certainly choose cables based on how my system sounds when they are in use. I have a pair of AlphaCore speaker cables that I love in the bass and mids but where are the highs? If I had bright electronics I might need them. Thinking about this topic I do think I use cables as tone controls but like tone controls I used them sparingly.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

I think cables can make a difference in your system...

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

I certainly choose cables based on how my system sounds when they are in use.

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How do you like the CAST cabling system on your Krell gear? Have you had the chance to compare it to standard analog interconnect L/R cables? Just curious because I always wondered if they delivered any sonic benefits other than plain convenience. Never had any experience with them myself.

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Originally Posted by TheHills44060

How do you like the CAST cabling system on your Krell gear? Have you had the chance to compare it to standard analog interconnect L/R cables? Just curious because I always wondered if they delivered any sonic benefits other than plain convenience. Never had any experience with them myself.

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I only have a Krell integrated amp so no need for the CAST IC between the pre-amp and power-amp. I have the Marantz SA 8001 so no balanced IC's are needed.

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Originally Posted by Hyfi

And you have experience with cables now or just what you have read?

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Well Hyfi, that is just common knowledge. Cable signature is a no-no and quality cable makers such as Belden strive to minimize that effect. However some audio cable companies seem to ignor that fact and concentrate on cable signature and sound and charge premium for it.

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A cable with a signature sound is no different than a brand of receivers or amps with a "House Sound" such as Rotel gear.

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This is where most poeple faulter as there is s a difference between cables and components. Cables are passiive and their job is to transfer signal. While components are active and their job is to amplify the signal. The latter might add its own signature when amplifying the signal, while the former should transfer the signal without any alterations.

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Originally Posted by blackraven

Here's a question for thought. How do you know if a cable or piece of equipment is giving the right sonic signature?

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To achieve right sonic signature (or transparency) in your system, your approach should be objectively rather than subjectively.

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Originally Posted by Smokey

Well Hyfi, that is just common knowledge. Cable signature is a no-no and quality cable makers such as Belden strive to minimize that effect. However some audio cable companies seem to ignor that fact and concentrate on cable signature and sound and charge premium for it.



This is where most poeple faulter as there is s a difference between cables and components. Cables are passiive and their job is to transfer signal. While components are active and their job is to amplify the signal. The latter might add its own signature when amplifying the signal, while the former should transfer the signal without any alterations.



To achieve right sonic signature (or transparency) in your system, your approach should be objectively rather than subjectively.

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Great in theory but in today's real world, Cables are now a Component and can be worked with as such. There have been some good discussions on the topic at AK recently.

Here is a set of questions posed and one person's answers.
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Originally Posted by robgmn
CAN a difference in cables exist? Yes, better question is, can two different cables be the same?

SHOULD a difference in cables exist? Absolutely.

If differences exist, WHY do they exist? Different cable topologies and materials.

CAN differences be measured? Yah shore, yew becha!

CAN we hear things that cannot be measured? Highly doubtful, if you know what to measure.

CAN things be measured that we cannot hear or sense? Yah shore, yew betcha!

CAN two things that are measured to be identical be proven to be perceived as different? Yes, if your measurements aren't extensive enough.

Can perception be verified with scientific testing (NOT belief; actual perception)? Yes, but it is rather painful (you must be conscious while the anal plug is inserted and removed).

- Have you ever tried different cables in your system? Yes, I have.

- Please describe cables (make/model or if DIY how constructed). You're kidding, right? Way too many to list.

- Did you hear a difference? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
- What are your reference components? Lots of stuff.

- Do you have any hearing issues that may impact your ability to detect differences. Age, and it isn't getting any better. Albeit, this is only a minor handicap.>>>

I suggest that when you score some gear capable of letting these differences show you do some experimenting on your own.

The whole premise of my post was that one CAN use cables to tame or enhance a system's lacking or overbearing characteristics. NOT should it or shouldn't it because the facts are, it does.

With your thinking, nobody should need an Equalizer either and while many use them for room correction, just as many or more know nothing about room correction and they use them to boost or cut the treble or bass.

Let me complete the sentence

To achieve right sonic signature (or transparency) in your system, you need to have highly transparent and resolving gear along with the right match of cables to suit ones own tastes in the sound of their setup.

This can rarely be done with a computer, TV, and $50 DVD players using Black & Reds.

Smokey, my question for you is how do you know which cable has the right sound as it was intended to be at the time of the recording. Cables and equipment sound different and we all have a personal likes and dislikes. What sounds good to me may sound like crap to you. For example, I love the Magenapan sound and RGA does not.

As for you comment about transparency, all the cables that I have convey transparency but the differences have mainly to do with warmth, general tone, high frequency extension, sibilance and bass.

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Originally Posted by blackraven

Smokey, my question for you is how do you know which cable has the right sound as it was intended to be at the time of the recording. Cables and equipment sound different and we all have a personal likes and dislikes. What sounds good to me may sound like crap to you. For example, I love the Magenapan sound and RGA does not.

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His comments were typical Nay Sayer with no real world experience comments. All theory and no practical experience. Anyone can repeat that stuff like a parrot but only those who choose to experiment will know the real answers.

I agree it would be nice to test cables in multiple systems to find a neutral cable. Of course at the end of the day it is still about how the cables interacts with your system. A cable that sounds neutral in several systems could be less than neutral between your amp and speakers.

My Krell S-300i is more neutral than other int. amps I have owned. When I had the original Cambridge Audio 640A I tried different cables trying to improve the sound. I almost wonder if like electronics, cables become more neutral as you step up a cable makers line?

I do find it interesting that when I read cable reviews they do mention when a cable would work better in a bright system or better in a warm system.

@Hyfi, thanks for sharing your cable experience with Odyssey products. As I am looking to do something different with a power cable I will have to check out Odyssey.

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Originally Posted by Hyfi

Great in theory but in today's real world, Cables are now a Component and can be worked with as such.

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Premisses of cable has not changed over a century. Although we have better material to build a cable, but functionality of cable has not changed. The concept here is that best cables are "soundless". Treated any other way and we are led into slippery slope...such as using an extension cord for speaker cable :)

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Originally Posted by blackraven

Smokey, my question for you is how do you know which cable has the right sound as it was intended to be at the time of the recording.

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To hear the intended sound of recording, your cable should be "soundless". Since every record sound differenet and your system might have its own signature, then the best approach to cable would be to choose the ones that are most transparent. And as it was said before, that can be better achived objectively rather than subjectively.

Smokey...answer me this question please. I have a Marantz AVR. When I use silver interconnects, the sound becomes brighter with more extended high frequencies and less bottom end . When I use copper on that same AVR, the sound is more neutral. The same happens with those same cables on my Musical Fidelity CDP. Would you say the interconnects changed the sound? OR am I just imagining things?

Also, smokey...what soundless cable do you use in your system. I may want to try it myself.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Smokey...answer me this question please. I have a Marantz AVR. When I use silver interconnects, the sound becomes brighter with more extended high frequencies and less bottom end . When I use copper on that same AVR, the sound is more neutral. The same happens with those same cables on my Musical Fidelity CDP. Would you say the interconnects changed the sound? OR am I just imagining things?

Also, smokey...what soundless cable do you use in your system. I may want to try it myself.

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Oh but it's just common knowledge that Silver is brighter than Copper, I'm sure he read that too.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Smokey...answer me this question please. I have a Marantz AVR. When I use silver interconnects, the sound becomes brighter with more extended high frequencies and less bottom end . When I use copper on that same AVR, the sound is more neutral. The same happens with those same cables on my Musical Fidelity CDP. Would you say the interconnects changed the sound? OR am I just imagining things?

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First you have to tell me if both silver and copper ICs are made same wire guage, with same material and geometry? Some sliver ICs are made thiner with no sheild vs their copper IC counterpart.

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Also, smokey...what soundless cable do you use in your system. I may want to try it myself.

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Although I use ordinary Radioshack speaker wire, my first choice for quality speaker cable would be 14 AWG Canare 4S11 (Star Quad) speaker cable. They are good for noisey enviroment due to its unique geometry, and use poly dielectric.

http://www.cs1.net/pic/canare/4S11_c...ion_detail.jpg

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Originally Posted by Smokey

Premisses of cable has not changed over a century. Although we have better material to build a cable, but functionality of cable has not changed. The concept here is that best cables are "soundless". Treated any other way and we are led into slippery slope...such as using an extension cord for speaker cable :)



To hear the intended sound of recording, your cable should be "soundless". Since every record sound differenet and your system might have its own signature, then the best approach to cable would be to choose the ones that are most transparent. And as it was said before, that can be better achived objectively rather than subjectively.

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That extension cord would be way better than the little wires all connected over a 70 foot run I have.

I give the same advice to those doubting the impact a cable will have on the sound. It is a tone control but only in the sense that one end or the other of the audio spectrum will be affected. They can bottleneck a signal to impede the PrAT of a sound as well. (ICs)

Most every audio forum will have scientific "experts" ridicule anyone commenting on differences in sound based on a cable. DBT and pre-conceived expectations are the biggest "lie" induced into the result. To the point that they will embarrass those claiming a difference as shills trying to market a cable to the new and impressionable hobbyist. They will double talk the person with scientific jargon and tell them they are delusional or a liar. For one to have such a high level of education, they can be very biased and ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Happy Camper

I give the same advice to those doubting the impact a cable will have on the sound. It is a tone control but only in the sense that one end or the other of the audio spectrum will be affected. They can bottleneck a signal to impede the PrAT of a sound as well. (ICs)

Most every audio forum will have scientific "experts" ridicule anyone commenting on differences in sound based on a cable. DBT and pre-conceived expectations are the biggest "lie" induced into the result. To the point that they will embarrass those claiming a difference as shills trying to market a cable to the new and impressionable hobbyist. They will double talk the person with scientific jargon and tell them they are delusional or a liar. For one to have such a high level of education, they can be very biased and ignorant.

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And one has never taken up my offers to come hear for themselves in my system in 15 years.

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

I think the most important aspect is matching. Evaluating a cable by itself it virtually useless. A cable becomes part of the system between the two attached devices and affects both.

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Yes, I agree with your position on the importance of matching to a system. I loved my Blue Marble Audio IC's and Digital Coax. The BMA had been in use strictly with solid state gear. Once I got the tube amps (Rogue and MiniWatt) it was like the BMA cables made each amp nosedive off a cliff. What at one time was a very integral component when connected to my former Rega and Belles gear then became basically unwanted and unneeded with the tube amps.

So, I concur with what you said ..."evaluating cable by itself is virtually useless"...

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Originally Posted by Hyfi

And one has never taken up my offers to come hear for themselves in my system in 15 years.

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It's the debate that's more important than the discovery. Arrogance wallowing in ignorance = bliss by ignoring the journey to avoid being proved wrong. I find it comical that all the naysayers will use DBT results as proof when we know human accuracy in audio is far from reliable.

When I first started listening to cables for a difference, I would listen to the main sound of the music. As I started listening to the fringes around the main music, I started noticing how the ambient sounds were being impacted. Then the acoustic responses in natural instruments, the decay of tones, a muffling of the delicate instruments. An analogy would be putting on a new set of windshield wipers. It clears up the sound and you can hear all that was intended.

A question was brought up in a recent article that maybe it's the component that's defective for a cable to have an impact on it's performance. There may be some truth to that. Since it's much more expensive to change components, a cable can transform the performance to hit that sweet spot.

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Originally Posted by Happy Camper

Most every audio forum will have scientific "experts" ridicule anyone commenting on differences in sound based on a cable. DBT and pre-conceived expectations are the biggest "lie" induced into the result. To the point that they will embarrass those claiming a difference as shills trying to market a cable to the new and impressionable hobbyist. They will double talk the person with scientific jargon and tell them they are delusional or a liar. For one to have such a high level of education, they can be very biased and ignorant.

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Have you ever thought the opposite may also be true whene one might seek higher education so they won't be bias and ignorant about cables. Some times "I can hear it" will not cut it in the real world where cables are not magical and out of realms of cable functionality :)

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Originally Posted by Smokey

Have you ever thought the opposite may also be true whene one might seek higher education so they won't be bias and ignorant about cables. Some times "I can hear it" will not cut it in the real world where cables are not magical and out of realms of cable functionality :)

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And sometimes, repeating everything you read as opposed to actually trying things for yourself becomes meaningless. Reading for education is great but real world practical experience counts just as much if not more.

Sometimes "you can't hear it because I read you can't" will not cut it either.

CAN a difference in cables exist?

SHOULD a difference in cables exist?

If differences exist, WHY do they exist?

CAN differences be measured?

CAN we hear things that cannot be measured?

CAN things be measured that we cannot hear or sense?

CAN two things that are measured to be identical be proven to be perceived as different?

Can perception be verified with scientific testing (NOT belief; actual perception)?

- Have you ever tried different cables in your system?

- Please describe cables (make/model or if DIY how constructed).

- Did you hear a difference?

- What are your reference components?

- Do you have any hearing issues that may impact your ability to detect differences?

My recent experience with AntiCables has been interesting. When the cables were not twisted in my system they are neutral. When twisted they brightened up and I lost instrumental textures and everything had a glassy sound. Twisted they are tone controls and non twisted and they are neutral.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

My recent experience with AntiCables has been interesting. When the cables were not twisted in my system they are neutral. When twisted they brightened up and I lost instrumental textures and everything had a glassy sound. Twisted they are tone controls and non twisted and they are neutral.

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No they didn't, you are just deaf and delusional. They sounded the same both ways or they are defective. I'm sure I read that somewhere.....:out:

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Originally Posted by Hyfi

No they didn't, you are just deaf and delusional. They sounded the same both ways or they are defective. I'm sure I read that somewhere.....:out:

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I have been told that before by someone who has never heard the cables. Just thinking a cable bad does not make it so.

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Originally Posted by Smokey

Have you ever thought the opposite may also be true whene one might seek higher education so they won't be bias and ignorant about cables. Some times "I can hear it" will not cut it in the real world where cables are not magical and out of realms of cable functionality :)

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Yes sir. Their education wasn't in the hobby but in their profession. The problem with this topic is that there are no documents supporting a change of cables in a formula that we are used to for scientific study. I was disappointed to find cables are pretty much "learn as you go" and there is no way of calculating what a cable will have on any two components. I've had similar issues with this synergy statement with components. How can one piece together a decent sounding rig without spending a lot of money.

Piecing a system together is a lesson in gear. For that, you can spend and learn yourself or you can trust a professional merchant to help. Thankfully I found a merchant willing to let me take home some stuff to learn. If one doesn't experience, they won't learn. Being loud and ignorant doesn't help anybody.

CAN a difference in cables exist? Yes

SHOULD a difference in cables exist? Yes if not built with exactly the same materials and specs. No if they are 2 identicle cables

If differences exist, WHY do they exist? Materials, build quality, design

CAN differences be measured? If measured properly yes, if just looking at 2 cables not hooked up to anything, maybe not

CAN we hear things that cannot be measured? Probably

CAN things be measured that we cannot hear or sense? Probably

CAN two things that are measured to be identical be proven to be perceived as different? Perception is hard to prove but to each individual it is real

Can perception be verified with scientific testing (NOT belief; actual perception)? Probably with the right conditions

- Have you ever tried different cables in your system? Yes

- Please describe cables (make/model or if DIY how constructed).
Too many to list but all from well known MFGs and price ranges from $5 to $350 per pair of ICs, Audioquest, XLO, Tara Labs, Synergistic, Radio Shack, Groneberg

- Did you hear a difference? Yes in some, not in all

- What are your reference components? see signature

- Do you have any hearing issues that may impact your ability to detect differences? what? None that I know of

Your turn, Smokey

Ok Hyfi I bite, but you probably already know what my answers going to be :)

-CAN a difference in cables exist?

Yes it can as not all cables are created equal.

-SHOULD a difference in cables exist?

That is a loaded question as even cable lenght will make a difference.

-If differences exist, WHY do they exist?

Materials, build quality, design, cable geometry and shielding.

-CAN differences be measured?

In most cases with proper instruments yes it can.

-CAN we hear things that cannot be measured?

From cables, I would say no. Cable technology as is as old as light bulb and we would have documented cases by now if things we hear can not be measured.

-CAN things be measured that we cannot hear or sense?

Most definitey. Harmonics are good example.

-CAN two things that are measured to be identical be proven to be perceived as different?

Sure. Good example would be when music sound different in the mornings than at nights, or depending on our moods.

-Can perception be verified with scientific testing (NOT belief; actual perception)?

Probably not. There is nothing as complex as human mind.

- Have you ever tried different cables in your system?

Not for sound, but for better specifications.

- Please describe cables (make/model or if DIY how constructed).

Bluejean aka Belden cables.

- Did you hear a difference?

Maybe I could if comparison was instantaneous. But going by memery, I would say no.

- What are your reference components?

That is an irrelevant question as cables sould be chosen independent of system cost.

- Do you have any hearing issues that may impact your ability to detect differences?

None that I am aware of.

- What are your reference components?

That is an irrelevant question as cables sould be chosen independent of system cost.


Nobody said anything about cost. Many lower priced gear is as revealing as high end gear. Just not all low priced gear. I have some that will show differences in cables and others not really.

The question was posed because cables react differently to the mating components. Thats why this argument is useless because measuring cables that are not connected to components means nothing. It is how they react with them that makes the difference.

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Originally Posted by Hyfi

The question was posed because cables react differently to the mating components. Thats why this argument is useless because measuring cables that are not connected to components means nothing. It is how they react with them that makes the difference.

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Ok. I go along with that statement :)

And on the same note, wouldn't you also agree that to keep differences to minimum, we should choose a cable with good specifications (regardless of listening to it) to achieve transparency?