• 05-16-2011, 02:18 PM
    Smokey
    HDMI Cable Brands Don't Matter
    According to PC magazine testing, for the vast majority of HDTV owners, a $5 HDMI cable will provide the same performance as a $100 one.

    They tested several different HDMI cables and found absolutely no effective difference between a no-name $3 HDMI cable you can order from Amazon.com and a $120 Monster cable you buy at a brick-and-mortar electronics store.

    They put the cables through three different tests: a technical quality evaluation, a blind video test, and a 3D-support test. All HDMI cables passed all three tests with flying colors.

    They concluded that as long as HDMI cable is 1.4 compliant (10.2 Gbps bandwidth) and it is less than 6 feet, they didn't see any performance differences between HDMI cables.

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385272,00.asp
  • 05-16-2011, 02:53 PM
    Luvin Da Blues
    I admit, I didn't read the article (I'm at work). Did they touch on build quality? They all may be fine in a bench test senario but the cheapos probably wouldn't stand up to very much twisting, turning and abuse.

    Love my BJ cables.
  • 05-16-2011, 03:10 PM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues

    Love my BJ cables.


    Luvin Da Blue Jeans

    Good questions. Same goes for the old argument of Interconnects. Yes every el cheapo cable will send a signal from one end to the other. But how good is the connection and build.
  • 05-16-2011, 04:14 PM
    Woochifer
    Unfortunately, HDMI is a badly designed connector. Even the best made cables cannot make up for a flawed design. I will agree that the cable brand is irrelevant to an extent. Problems occur over longer distances, and that's where you do see some variation between cables. But, that might simply be a case of the signal losing integrity at 15' versus 20'.
  • 05-16-2011, 05:27 PM
    Smokey
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Good questions. Same goes for the old argument of Interconnects. Yes every el cheapo cable will send a signal from one end to the other. But how good is the connection and build.

    But as oppose to old argument of Interconnects, the HDMI signal is digital which mean the signal will either get thru or it won't. They did mentioned that higher priced HDMI cables were better quality build than cheaper ones (like having lower gauage center wires), but they said as long as signal is passed, it is irrelevent.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wooch
    Problems occur over longer distances, and that's where you do see some variation between cables.

    That is exactly right. They say if HDMI cable is going to be over 10 feet, then should consider higher quality cables as they provide better shielding, lower guage wires and higher bandwidth.
  • 05-17-2011, 03:12 AM
    jjp735i
    Hdmi
    I usualy don't post here, but I have to chime in. I purchased a 25ft HDMI thru Amazon for $1.76 and have been using it for months on my HD projector. I don't see any difference from this cable to the smaller 3 foot $23.00 cable I also use.

    Although I still beleive there is a big difference in speaker wire and component cables, I don't think HDMI cables from 2 dollars to hunderds, which I've seen make that much difference.
  • 05-17-2011, 05:45 AM
    Luvin Da Blues
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Luvin Da Blue Jeans

    Right now I'm luvin' dis.....
  • 05-17-2011, 06:01 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    Right now I'm luvin' dis.....

    What is that? An imitation Harley?

    I can't tell what it is, looks smooth.
  • 05-17-2011, 06:38 AM
    Luvin Da Blues
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi
    What is that? An imitation Harley?

    I can't tell what it is, looks smooth.

    Suzuki Intruder 1500 LC, I can't afford a real HD right now with my audio habit an' all Ya know.
  • 05-17-2011, 11:29 AM
    frenchmon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    Suzuki Intruder 1500 LC, I can't afford a real HD right now with my audio habit an' all Ya know.

    I feel ya...with my daughters tuition in private school I can't afford nothin. At least your poverty is self imposed..mine is wife imposed.
  • 05-17-2011, 11:38 AM
    frenchmon
    Well I guess I wont be buying the Pangea Audio - HD-24PC - HDMI Cable - 4% Silver Plated at $69. per 2m and will be gettting some old cheap Mediabridge Ultra Series - High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet - Category 2 Certified - Supports 3D & Audio Return Channel [Latest HDMI Version Available] - (6 Feet)
    by Mediabridge at $10. per 2m.


    Thanks for the information.
  • 05-17-2011, 06:59 PM
    Mr Peabody
    Frenchmon, if our friend has the Pangea in stock maybe you can do a comparison.

    When I first got a processor with HDMI I didn't really want to spend $100+ so I bought what I thought would be reasonable, a $40.00 Belkin. My experience was not what they claim in the article. Not to go into the whole long story I had a audio issue with my AV8003 that gave me great buyer's remorse. After trying a variety of things to resolve the problem I switched the HDMI cable as a last resort. I maybe should have tried a cheaper or similar as well to see what happened but I tried a Tributaries. It cured the problem so that's what I stuck with. I thought there was a video improvement but can't be sure but the better cable definitely cured an audio issue, significantly improving the sound quality.

    If all there is to digital, delivering the signal, how does Esoteric get away with selling a mere reclocking unit for $13k? Those who think digital is only off or on are mistaken.
  • 05-18-2011, 02:14 AM
    frenchmon
    How long is your HDMI cable?
  • 05-18-2011, 03:53 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    Suzuki Intruder 1500 LC, I can't afford a real HD right now with my audio habit an' all Ya know.

    Wow! Do they look different now. Man you just stirred up some emotions for me.

    After riding my beloved '75 Norton Commando for many years, I got tired of dealing with the Lucas Electronics that were temper-mental. I sold it to the owner of a bike dealership and bought a brand new original Intruder 750 as below in black.

    I was riding it for about an hour each morning before going to work to break it in and get used to it. Shaft Drive is soooo different than a slapping chain. Anyway, day 6 of owning my first ever New bike, I rode for my hour and as I was preparing to turn into the lot of where I worked, I got plowed from behind by an uninsured-uninspected free loader female from North Philly.

    The cops impounded my bike instead of letting my co workers put it in the shop right there because the cops were in bed with the towing impound company and it cost me to get it out. They left the woman drive away and continue to drive that vehicle.

    Since I got run down by a drunk driver at 7am back in '79 on my old 250 BSA, then number two, that was the last day I ever rode and boy do I miss it. Just not real safe anymore in congested areas. Be very careful and enjoy!

    http://www.suzukicycles.org/photos/I...GL_blk_500.jpg
  • 05-18-2011, 04:13 AM
    Luvin Da Blues
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Wow! Do they look different now. Man you just stirred up some emotions for me.

    After riding my beloved '75 Norton Commando for many years, I got tired of dealing with the Lucas Electronics that were temper-mental. I sold it to the owner of a bike dealership and bought a brand new original Intruder 750 as below in black.

    I was riding it for about an hour each morning before going to work to break it in and get used to it. Shaft Drive is soooo different than a slapping chain. Anyway, day 6 of owning my first ever New bike, I rode for my hour and as I was preparing to turn into the lot of where I worked, I got plowed from behind by an uninsured-uninspected free loader female from North Philly.

    The cops impounded my bike instead of letting my co workers put it in the shop right there because the cops were in bed with the towing impound company and it cost me to get it out. They left the woman drive away and continue to drive that vehicle.

    Since I got run down by a drunk driver at 7am back in '79 on my old 250 BSA, then number two, that was the last day I ever rode and boy do I miss it. Just not real safe anymore in congested areas. Be very careful and enjoy!

    http://www.suzukicycles.org/photos/I...GL_blk_500.jpg


    I guess we're kinda hijackin' this thread.

    They sure have gotten bigger. I stand 6'4" so I need a large frame size which the Suzi has one of the largest available. It sucks to be hit like that, especially by one without insurance. No accounting for bad drivers so one really has to be aware and always have an escape route available.

    Right now I just ride to and from work (all highway cruising) and long slow rides in the evening and weekends. I try to stay out of traffic areas as much as I can. Riding safe is good for my old bones.

    Nuthin' like riding on a nice sunny spring day. :thumbsup:

    Now back to our regular programing.......
  • 05-18-2011, 12:57 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post
    Unfortunately, HDMI is a badly designed connector. Even the best made cables cannot make up for a flawed design. I will agree that the cable brand is irrelevant to an extent. Problems occur over longer distances, and that's where you do see some variation between cables. But, that might simply be a case of the signal losing integrity at 15' versus 20'.

    Jitter increases, and signal strength is reduced once past 15' without a signal amplifier in the chain.

    I stated that HDMI brands don't matter three years ago when debating with Peabody on the issue. He stated that one HDMI cable sounded better to his ears than another. I said that cannot be possible because there is no conversion taking place before the DAC in the HDMI cable, so no difference were possible. When it comes to video, either the cable could pass the signal, or it would fail to pass the signal. That is it - as there is no "signal quality" improvements to worry about with HDMI.
  • 05-18-2011, 02:02 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Jitter increases, and signal strength is reduced once past 15' without a signal amplifier in the chain.

    I stated that HDMI brands don't matter three years ago when debating with Peabody on the issue. He stated that one HDMI cable sounded better to his ears than another. I said that cannot be possible because there is no conversion taking place before the DAC in the HDMI cable, so no difference were possible. When it comes to video, either the cable could pass the signal, or it would fail to pass the signal. That is it - as there is no "signal quality" improvements to worry about with HDMI.

    That's why I've never liked HDMI turning into the default digital AV standard. The connector design sucks, and performance begins to breakdown well within normal distances. It just reeks of design-by-committee, with little attention to how it performs in real world applications. There are so many more robust connection standards out there for carrying digital data, why the HT industry standardized around HDMI is just puzzling (aside from the HDCP considerations).

    Tests I've seen indicate that certain cables will indeed show signal loss sooner than others, and the expensive cables weren't always the best performers. But, that still doesn't make up for the fundamental flaw of HDMI's poor performance over long runs. In my old configuration, I was using a 25' S-vid cable connected to the receiver. At that distance, there was no issue with S-vid or component video, and installers would routinely use much longer runs with analog cables. Those distances are far from routine with HDMI. In my current configuration, I am using a 15' HDMI cable along with an Oppo HM-31 switchbox (which has an equalizer and signal booster), and fortunately, I've not had any issues.
  • 05-18-2011, 04:34 PM
    Mr Peabody
    Frenchmon, my HDMI is only 2 meters.
  • 05-19-2011, 04:06 AM
    frenchmon
    Oh...you are driving it with the LINN...sorry I thought you where driving it with the CJ gear. How do you have your speakers connected? Are you using a splitter or switch for both systems?
  • 05-19-2011, 10:21 AM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post

    If all there is to digital, delivering the signal, how does Esoteric get away with selling a mere reclocking unit for $13k? Those who think digital is only off or on are mistaken.

    No they are not mistaken, and test after test has proven this. HDMI either works, or it does not. The cable just passes the signal from the transmitter to the receiver, and does nothing to the signal in the process. Esoteric can get away with anything they want via marketing BS, but it does not change reality. A reclocking unit will only be beneficial if the cable lengths are very long, which can cause jitter to increase with PCM signals. Dts MA and DTHD are not effected by jitter, they are packet based. Since most High Rez recordings on Bluray utilize Dts-HD Master audio and Dolby TruHD as audio carriers, a reclocking device is not needed. SACD is also not susceptible to jitter, so a reclocking device is not needed for that format as well.
  • 05-19-2011, 04:23 PM
    Mr Peabody
    I have HDMI going from my satelite receiver & BDP to the processor, RCA from processor to amp. I have two sets of speaker cables, one running from the CJ amps and another from the Linn. I hook and unhook at the back of the speaker using banana plugs depending on which system I want to use.

    I should have been more clear, Esoteric reclocks for CD, not sure about SACD or HDMI. However, save your breath because I clearly had an issue with HDMI cables and nothing you can say will change that reality.
  • 05-19-2011, 04:42 PM
    Smokey
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    However, save your breath because I clearly had an issue with HDMI cables and nothing you can say will change that reality.

    Maybe you might had a bad cable. Cable failure seem to be greater with HDMI than other type of cables.
  • 05-19-2011, 05:45 PM
    Mr Peabody
    The cable with the issue could have a flaw but it delivered the video and an audio signal, the audio signal was just not good quality. The same cable works fine for BDP to a display. My processor for some reason seems to need a higher quality cable. Although the Belkin had the current spec it still may not have been as high speed as the Tributaries, a possible reason for difference.
  • 05-20-2011, 08:23 AM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I have HDMI going from my satelite receiver & BDP to the processor, RCA from processor to amp. I have two sets of speaker cables, one running from the CJ amps and another from the Linn. I hook and unhook at the back of the speaker using banana plugs depending on which system I want to use.

    I should have been more clear, Esoteric reclocks for CD, not sure about SACD or HDMI. However, save your breath because I clearly had an issue with HDMI cables and nothing you can say will change that reality.

    Having a "issue" with a HDMI cable, and advancing the arguement that one cable sounds better than the other are two different things. If you are over taxing the cable(using a HDMI 1.2 cable with 3D or 4K) it will have a problem. If the cable is poorly made, and does not meet HDMI specifications, then it will have a problem. But if you use a certified high speed HDMI cable, you should have zero issues with anything that passes through it.

    If you understand how HDMI cables work, there is no way in hell you can make the argument that one HDMI cable sounds better than another. One will not deliver a better picture than another, it just does not work that way. Now the marketing people have a job. They have to get you to part with your money, so they make claims that are not supported by reality, and people believe them. This is why Esoteric, Monster, and ton's of other companies make the claims they do about their cables. As long as the cable meets HDMI specifications, and now passes HDMI certification, then that cable will not add or take anything away from the video or the audio.
  • 05-20-2011, 09:00 AM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    The cable with the issue could have a flaw but it delivered the video and an audio signal, the audio signal was just not good quality. The same cable works fine for BDP to a display. My processor for some reason seems to need a higher quality cable. Although the Belkin had the current spec it still may not have been as high speed as the Tributaries, a possible reason for difference.

    I think this is all in your head Peabody. HDMI cables do not alter the sound in any way as it passes through the cable. HDMI is not like co-axial or RCA cables. Unless you were using the cable on a very long run, or that it was not certified by HDMI, the cable will sound like any other cable. The processor has nothing to do with it, as yours is no special than anyone elses. If you are going to make that argument, then my processor would surely require an uber expensive, ultra special HDMI cable to pass its signals. I use a HDMI certified and tested ultra high speed cable from monoprice since it is passing 3D and 4K signals. The cable does not care what processor is in front of it, as long as the HDMI transmitter is functioning and the HDMI receiver on the other end is functioning, a processor is a processor to the cable.

    As long as you choose the right cable for what you are trying to pass through it, the Belkin is no different than the tributary in this respect. A 1.3 rated cable is a 1.3 rated cable, no matter who it comes from.

    Since Bluray predominately uses the lossless codecs, this further erodes your argument. The lossless codecs signals travel in packets, so they are impervious to jitter. Any cable rated 1.3 would easily pass the signal without degradation.

    When it comes to Bluray, a 1.3 rated cable is a 1.3 rated cable, no matter what manufacturer makes it.