do speaker cables make a difference???

[nusiclover]

the answer is a positive YES

recently i posted how interconnects made a difference. Tara Labs 5500i sounded more mellow and more agreable than monster THX (with music).

But now ive compared tara labs speaker cables (14awg) with Carol Superflex 12awg bought at home depot. I swear by this, cables make 110% difference for sure. There is no question, i gave them a very fair trial (to the point that i wanted HD to be the same! talk about bias i wanted them so much to be so the same that i went out of my way to do the trade!!) and the are not. As far as i am concerned, i am 110% sure that speaker cables DO make a difference. So, I will now look into higher quality (which of course comes with a bigger pirece tag) speaker cables. After all, i did spend a few grand on my system. Sorry to everyone that really thinks speaker cables make no audible difference - because they do! I swear by this too. So does my girlfriend to the point that not only did both of us say that Tara was better, but we both gave the same sound qualities that were different.

Again, sorry to all you non-believers because i really wanted to believe that there was no audible difference between speaker cables. Unfortunately (financially), there is.

[Thomas_A]

You are 110% sure?!

Nobody has ever shown that loudspeakercables of reasonable construction is audbile different from 12 AWG cable. From your description there is nothing that support your "110%". To do confidence testing you need to make a blind test. With the help of some friends and random trial. If you can pick correct cable 20/20 then you are close to 100% confidence.

You have shown nothing of this, and thus you claim that there are audible differences, is just something many claim but nobody has ever been able to prove during ≈ 30 years of cable debate.

T

[skeptic]

Another walking talking advertisement for the cottage audio cable industry. How do I know you are not a shill? OK, I'll play your game. Let's assume you're not.

"do speaker cables make a difference???
the answer is a positive YES"

"now ive compared tara labs speaker cables (14awg) with Carol Superflex 12awg bought at home depot. I swear by this, cables make 110% difference for sure. There is no question, i gave them a very fair trial"

You'd be the first one to ever do that. Did you give them an independently conducted DBT or did you just connect them and decided they sounded better than the other cables. What YOU call fair, people who really want to get at the truth would call a joke.

"So does my girlfriend to the point that not only did both of us say that Tara was better, but we both gave the same sound qualities that were different."

If you are telling us the truth about your girlfriend, it is probably what I have concluded all along and that is that women will say ANYTHING and have learned a long time ago to just AGREE with their audio geek boyfriends and husbands to just get them to shut up about this topic which is the ultimately boring subject for them.

"I will now look into higher quality (which of course comes with a bigger pirece tag) speaker cables. After all, i did spend a few grand on my system. "

Exactly what the cable industry is hoping for. Once you get caught up in this way of thinking, they've got you. Now there is no limit to what you will ultimately spend on cables because right, wrong, or otherwise, you took the bait and are firmly on their hook.

So the great cable farce goes on.

[E-Stat]

You'd be the first one to ever do that. Did you give them an independently conducted DBT or did you just connect them and decided they sounded better than the other cables.

Same tired old "we can't tell the difference with the POS equipment we're using" argument. None of you guys has EVER provided test results using anything better than mid-fi gear.

rw

[skeptic]

And you have the same tired old "I can hear it but I can't prove it" and "what do you expect from that mid fi junk you listen to?" Seems like you haven't give up either.

[weez82]

I worked for an audio shop for a month and I can tell you that the differance between a $15 cable and a $80 is the $15 cable makes about $1 commission and the $80 cable makes $9. Cables are marked up about 50-60%. The cable industry just wants your money, I mean the $80 cable must sound better then the $15 cable, it cost more and looks better, right?

[E-Stat]

And you have the same tired old "I can hear it but I can't prove it" and "what do you expect from that mid fi junk you listen to?" Seems like you haven't give up either.

The difference is that I qualify my comments with respect to the system involved. You make unsupported blanket claims. Which is indeed valid for the majority of folks asking what cable they should use with their Onkyo receiver.

rw

[mtrycraft]

The difference is that I qualify my comments with respect to the system involved. You make unsupported blanket claims. Which is indeed valid for the majority of folks asking what cable they should use with their Onkyo receiver.

rw

You can qualify you statement with anything you like. You still don't have supporting evidence, just speculations, guesses, daydreams. But, some are very happy with dreams. Enjoy.

[ToddB]

The difference is that I qualify my comments with respect to the system involved. You make unsupported blanket claims. Which is indeed valid for the majority of folks asking what cable they should use with their Onkyo receiver.

rw

Not necessarily, since I've had these speaker cables:

14 AWG zip cord
XLO ER-14
Kimber Kable KWIK-16
Kimber Kable 4PR

and these interconnects:

Radio Shack Gold
XLO Twinax Plus
Kimber Kable Tonik

in this system:

Onkyo TX-8211 receiver
Sony CDP-XE500 CD player
Paradigm Titan or Mini Monitor speakers
Paradigm PDR-8 or PDR-12 subwoofer

and it was easy enough to hear differences between the cables, even at this low level of resolution.

[Thomas_A]

Same tired old "we can't tell the difference with the POS equipment we're using" argument. None of you guys has EVER provided test results using anything better than mid-fi gear.

rw

Pure speculation.

T

[nusiclover]

first of all, my girlfriend is sitting right by my side. she actually likes stereo stuff almost as much as i do. in fact, she was the one that bought the more expensive cables, and i found a way to save her money by going with Home Depot 12awg. Without question, she was delighted at being able to save over $150 (after all, this means more shoes for her! {women have their weak points as well})
Anyway, i hoocked up the HD cables and i wanted them to work, i was very happy to have saved my girlfriend (which according to all of you should give a rats ass about stereo stuff to begin with) some money. She was very happy to do this. And then i said "honey come listen to the new speaker cable" and she flat out hated them. It made me qustion, bevcause for a moment i was psychologically overwhelnmed with wanting the HD to perform just as equal so that i could save her money which was my personal ultimate goal (wanna talk freudian here? ive read a book or two too). But she didnt like the system anymore. She said it was sounding like a car stereo(hopefully exagerrating) that it lacked soundstage and was very shrill sounding with no depth at all. Words from my girlfriend, words from the one true person that i even thought knew nothing about audiophile lifestyles! She said it, not me. And from under my dark corner i gasped, saying: sweetie, thats what i feel about these cables too! "Cables? cables?" she askied, "i thought you were playing best buy speakers just to trick me".
Guys, hear me now. there was no trick. all that was done is Home Depot cables were used in place of Tara Labs. Thats it. And she heard a difference so fast that she thought it was an entirely new system...really after this, how can you tell me there is no difference.

On another side,
If speaker cables Made No difference, then there would cease to be sooo many succesful speaker cable companys out there. You can use the "marketing" card for so long, but then it becomes mute, because neither I (captain frugal himself) nor a thousand other paying customers would simply succumb to expert marketeering unless they put "magic potion" in our cables so that when i touched them we would feel euphorically happy .
Come on, give it a rest, no cable companys are drugging us to HAVE to like their cables better. The simple truth is that, well, there are audible differences. So sorry if your ears can not dissiminate between the two. But, my ears work damn fine.

im not saying cables will make such an apparant difference in your system, what i am saying is that cables made all the difference in a hi-fi system. if you cannot hear this still, no worries, save yourself the extra bucks. be happy- thats what should be learned here. be happy and accept that sometimes, some people will hear a big audible difference between cable manufacturers, perhaps just not you. (dont forget for a moment that i was comparing 35c/foot cables with $10/foot cables.) you wouldnt want to drive a mercedes clk with honda civic tires would you? or do you not think there is a difference?

[Thomas_A]

first of all, my girlfriend is sitting right by my side. she actually likes stereo stuff almost as much as i do. in fact, she was the one that bought the more expensive cables, and i found a way to save her money by going with Home Depot 12awg. Without question, she was delighted at being able to save over $150 (after all, this means more shoes for her! {women have their weak points as well})
Anyway, i hoocked up the HD cables and i wanted them to work, i was very happy to have saved my girlfriend (which according to all of you should give a rats ass about stereo stuff to begin with) some money. She was very happy to do this. And then i said "honey come listen to the new speaker cable" and she flat out hated them. It made me qustion, bevcause for a moment i was psychologically overwhelnmed with wanting the HD to perform just as equal so that i could save her money which was my personal ultimate goal (wanna talk freudian here? ive read a book or two too). But she didnt like the system anymore. She said it was sounding like a car stereo(hopefully exagerrating) that it lacked soundstage and was very shrill sounding with no depth at all. Words from my girlfriend, words from the one true person that i even thought knew nothing about audiophile lifestyles! She said it, not me. And from under my dark corner i gasped, saying: sweetie, thats what i feel about these cables too! "Cables? cables?" she askied, "i thought you were playing best buy speakers just to trick me".
Guys, hear me now. there was no trick. all that was done is Home Depot cables were used in place of Tara Labs. Thats it. And she heard a difference so fast that she thought it was an entirely new system...really after this, how can you tell me there is no difference.

On another side,
If speaker cables Made No difference, then there would cease to be sooo many succesful speaker cable companys out there. You can use the "marketing" card for so long, but then it becomes mute, because neither I (captain frugal himself) nor a thousand other paying customers would simply succumb to expert marketeering unless they put "magic potion" in our cables so that when i touched them we would feel euphorically happy .
Come on, give it a rest, no cable companys are drugging us to HAVE to like their cables better. The simple truth is that, well, there are audible differences. So sorry if your ears can not dissiminate between the two. But, my ears work damn fine.

im not saying cables will make such an apparant difference in your system, what i am saying is that cables made all the difference in a hi-fi system. if you cannot hear this still, no worries, save yourself the extra bucks. be happy- thats what should be learned here. be happy and accept that sometimes, some people will hear a big audible difference between cable manufacturers, perhaps just not you. (dont forget for a moment that i was comparing 35c/foot cables with $10/foot cables.) you wouldnt want to drive a mercedes clk with honda civic tires would you? or do you not think there is a difference?

And there has been tests using Transparents top-of-the line cable vs Supra Ply 12 AWG cable with people of the "cable believer" side. No difference.

There have been tests using a top-notch speaker system, able to reproduce a perfect square-wave, ±1 dB at listening position, and extremely low distortion. No audible differences between cables.

What I can suspect, is that poor HiFi systems might benefit with good cables since poor equipment might be sensitive to cable impedance.

T

T

[mtrycraft]

[QUOTE=nusiclover] On another side,
If speaker cables Made No difference, then there would cease to be sooo many succesful speaker cable companys out there. You can use the "marketing" card for so long, but then it becomes mute, because neither I (captain frugal himself) nor a thousand other paying customers would simply succumb to expert marketeering unless they put "magic potion" in our cables so that when i touched them we would feel euphorically happy .
Come on, give it a rest, no cable companys are drugging us to HAVE to like their cables better. The simple truth is that, well, there are audible differences. So sorry if your ears can not dissiminate between the two. But, my ears work damn fine.
QUOTE]


Wrong, wrong, wrong. I suppose the psychics can really tell your future, talk to the dead. Holistic healing does heal people. John Edwards does talk to the dead, right.
After all, if they are not for real, why do so many people continue to run after these sharlatans.

No, marketing is everything but human nature being gullible is a tremendous asset of marketeers.

You have a lot to learn about human nature, perception, snake oil salesmen.

[mtrycraft]

Same tired old "we can't tell the difference with the POS equipment we're using" argument. None of you guys has EVER provided test results using anything better than mid-fi gear.

rw

Ah, but you have the burden to demonstrate that your system makes a difference in detectng ability. Your evidence can be found under which rock? It isn't anywhere, and you are just daydreaming as much as the next golden ear, regardless of your estats or 30 years of experience that is unreliable at best. So, in essence, you are the stuck needle in the groove with no evidence to support your wild claims.
When?

[pctower]

God love people and the web! Two extremes, each shouting past the other, each carrying on a glorious tradition that now spans decades:

"As far as i am concerned, i am 110% sure that speaker cables DO make a difference."
_____________________

"So the great cable farce goes on."
_____________________

Only now the whole world gets to "enjoy" this perpetual shouting match.

Is there anyone out there who just buys things because of the enjoyment he derives from his purchases (or lack thereof) and doesn't need every other human being to act and believe exactly as he does?

I guess we'd never run across such a person on the Internet. He'd be too busy listening to and enjoying his system to waste his and everyone else's time.

BTW, does all this "hot air" contribute to global warming?

[skeptic]

I would think that sitting on a fence would get rather painful after awhile.

[pctower]

I would think that sitting on a fence would get rather painful after awhile.

Not at all. What's painful is watching so many people make wild and foolish statements.

I dare say that my platform on the fence that divides the two opposing religious camps in the wire crusades is far cleaner and more solid than the slipery pig slop in which the dogmatists of both persuasions choose to wallow.

[skeptic]

Everytime you sit on your fence you get shot at from both sides. Each side figures you are really on the other side. You make statements which you think will provoke discussion and it only gets people angry at you. I'd have thought that by now you would have figured that out. Generally, in a war, neutrals have a tendency to duck a lot. It's their way of surviving.

[RGA]

Everytime you sit on your fence you get shot at from both sides. Each side figures you are really on the other side. You make statements which you think will provoke discussion and it only gets people angry at you. I'd have thought that by now you would have figured that out. Generally, in a war, neutrals have a tendency to duck a lot. It's their way of surviving.

If you're not on the fence you're wrong. Fact = no one has proven an audible difference with DBT's --- FACT = DBTs are not the answer in psychological testing. Therefore, both sides will never solve the issue because both sides do not understand psychological testing or validity. One side uses no science to back up their claim and the other side uses science ineptly to discredit the other. A DBT in its very definition cannot prove A=B no matter how they want to weasal around it that is a fact.

Thus you better be on the fence.

[pctower]

Everytime you sit on your fence you get shot at from both sides. Each side figures you are really on the other side. You make statements which you think will provoke discussion and it only gets people angry at you. I'd have thought that by now you would have figured that out. Generally, in a war, neutrals have a tendency to duck a lot. It's their way of surviving.

"You make statements which you think will provoke discussion and it only gets people angry at you. I'd have thought that by now you would have figured that out."

Just like everyone else, I make statements that describe my position. If people get angry at me, that's their problem. Anger is not healthy.

That's what I've figured out.

[mtrycraft]

Is there anyone out there who just buys things because of the enjoyment he derives from his purchases (or lack thereof) and doesn't need every other human being to act and believe exactly as he does?

Oh, there are. Few post here though Most have to make some sort of testable claims though.
Now only if they followed your suggestion, this place would be dead, nothing to comment on

[skeptic]

When I want to buy something pleasant to look at, I go to an art Gallery.

When I want to buy something to wire up my speakers with, I go to Home Depot.

I've never thought of wire as art. But then that's just me.

[Bjorn]

God love people and the web! Two extremes, each shouting past the other, each carrying on a glorious tradition that now spans decades:

"As far as i am concerned, i am 110% sure that speaker cables DO make a difference."
_____________________

"So the great cable farce goes on."
_____________________

Only now the whole world gets to "enjoy" this perpetual shouting match.

Is there anyone out there who just buys things because of the enjoyment he derives from his purchases (or lack thereof) and doesn't need every other human being to act and believe exactly as he does?

I guess we'd never run across such a person on the Internet. He'd be too busy listening to and enjoying his system to waste his and everyone else's time.

BTW, does all this "hot air" contribute to global warming?

Here's one guy that has heard some differences between cables, likes trying them out while enjoying music. Just bought a new set of cables to try and just going to spend some hours listening now, instead of posting really long posts But I know there's difference between cables.. Used to be cynic bout cables, but not anymore...

I

[Beckman]

But I know there's difference between cables..
I

Anything other than 12 AWG zip cord can only degrade the signal to make it sound different. In addition, any cable that does sound different can be duplicated with 12 AWG zip cord and inductors/capacitors so why spend the money?

[Thomas_A]

Norm Strong,

we say "på ren Svenska" in Swedish, i.e. "in plain Swedish".

T