Sansui Turntable - Cartridge?

[igloomaster]

Hi Folks. I own a mid-70s Sansui SR-222 Turntable. A very simple & basic spinner - - it's in top working condition as it's been fully serviced, and it sounds pretty good. I bought it for "a song" at a local repair shop. The technician installed a Stanton 500EMKII cartridge/stylus, which sounded decent, but I improved upon this when I switched to a Grado Black. More detail to my ears.
My question is this: I realize that the "Black" is the entry-level Grado. Will I be wasting my $ if I try to upgrade yet again? Have I hit the wall (because of this model of Sansui) or will I hear even more detail with higher end Grados, Ortofons, Shure...etc ? I'm willing to spend a few bucks on a great cartridge; as I said, I picked up the table for a song and it is in top working condition.

Also, another chap recommended perhaps adding some weight to the platter by putting some heavy modeling clay on it's underside. Anybody have any thoughts on the matter? Will this be too much for the motor/belt?

Thanks!!

[royphil345]

I think the SR-222 is a pretty nice sounding table. Don't think you "hit the wall" with the Grado Black. Though, the Black is about my favorite Grado model because it easily performs better than anything else you can get for the same price. For a little more money, I tend to like cartridges from Shure or Ortofon.

I'd probably shy away from the modeling clay mod. Belt drive turntables that are manufactured with a lighter platter than the really high-end ones usually have a stretchier belt and lower torque motor as well. Possibly rubber bushings on the motor mount that aren't that firm. The added weight might actually do more harm than good to wow and flutter. Would also add stress to the main bearing on this older table. Also, the weight probably wouldn't be perfectly distributed around the platter which might be really bad for the bearing.

[igloomaster]

thanks for the reply!

Indeed, I'm quite surprised and pleased by how good this table sounds! Somebody recommended the audio technica at440ML for this spinner.... Any recommendations from you?

I won't do any mods like add weight with clay, etc., but what about a record clamp?

Thanks again,
Igloo

[royphil345]

I had a 440ML. Switched to a Shure M97xE. The 440ML has better extension into the higher frequencies, will sound crisper, livlier and more detailed on a generally smooth-sounding system. Does seem to be a slight dip in midrange response though.

The M97xE is a little more rolled-off in the highs. Sounds very rich through the mids without sounding muddy or overly warm, which I like in my system. Probably a safer choice for systems where a little extra brightness tends to sound bad. Still , a little more detail than from the Grado Black. The Shure also tracks way better on my higher-mass tonearm than the AT 440ML did. The tonearm on my Sony PS-X5 is very similar and from about the same time period as the one on your SR-222.

I really liked the 440ML for classical music because of the clarity. Found that rock music lacked "power" due to the recessed mids and could sometimes sound a little harsh in the highs.

Those are my impressions on those two cartridges. Might somehow help you choose.
I've heard alot of good things about Goldring cartridges (probably models a little more expensive than the Shure or AT), but haven't heard one. For around $180.00 the Grado Gold is supposed to sound very detailed and rich in the mids. Haven't tried one of those myself either. Perhaps others could offer some more suggestions.

Oh... I am a firm believer in the use of record clamps.

[igloomaster]

Oh... I am a firm believer in the use of record clamps.

Thanks!

Which clamp do you prefer, and is the added weight of a clamp bad for my Sansui 222 bearing?

Thanks for the help - - I'm going to experiment with a Shure... mount on a seperate headshell, etc.

[JoeE SP9]

Among the clamps I have are 2 that add no weight to the platter. The "Pig" and a Planax clamp. The pig is a small rubber nipple and the Planax is a (delrin?) plastic disk. I think the needle doctor still sells the "Pig". For these and other clamps try www.needledoctor.com.

[royphil345]

I just use a KAB USA http://www.kabusa.com/usagrip.htm#CTOP, only one I've tried. It DOES make the records sound better. Think it might actually work better than some of the clamps that rely on weight alone to flatten the record.

Saw some 1 pound clamps on eBay that look pretty nice also, (around $40.00). Don't think the weight would be a big concern here because it would be perfectly centered and the weight would be near the center of the platter having less effect on the rotational speed/balance of the platter if the weight wasn't absolutely perfectly distributed.

[BRANDONH]

Thanks for the link great site I added it to my favorites.
Will this clamp work with any spindle?
I have a Pro-Ject 1.2

[royphil345]

should work fine

[igloomaster]

just picked up another Sansui SR-222 Mark 1 turntable off of ebay.... $76 includes shipping. i think that's good deal, since i paid $150 for my 1st one at a local hi-fi shop in the boston area. so now i'll have 2 of these for my basement studio set-up. (turntables on a table on the concrete basement floor = GREAT for zilch floor-borne vibrations!)

i've got new old stock Shure m75 cartridge on the way... going to experiment with it .... mounted on a separate headshell, so i'll trade off between Grado prestige series.

[royphil345]

Congrats!!! Does look like you got a sweet deal. Prices on anything Sansui usually seem high. Probably a lot of people putting together vintage Sansui systems. Don't know how you did it, but you did it.

Haven't heard an M75, but have owned some other older Shure cartridges. Seems the secret to Shure's better tracking is a firmer than most suspension on the cantilever. I've noticed that unless you buy a model with a smaller / lighter cantilever (any of the V15 models, M97xE), there's usually a considerable rolloff of the frequency extremes. Always did sound smooth though. Hope you love the M75. Don't let it scare you away from trying a M97xE someday if you don't though.

Don't think there's too much difference between the M97xE and the older V15s. The newer V15 has a more sensative motor assembly (lower output) and fancier stylus shape. Doesn't sound as musical as the older ones to my ear though.

[igloomaster]

thanks for the tips. i'm looking forward to checking out the M75 this week.

i've had my eye on that M97 you mentioned.

i was home yesterday, listening to records while working in my office. i realised (again) how much i enjoy spinning vinyl albums, so much more than CDs.