Pro-Ject TT

[blackraven]

A brand new line does not always mean better. It usually means higher prices.

[bob r]

you are right the fix is for the Debut 111

[frenchmon]

Oh...my bad noob...I thought the only difference in the two was one has a carbon tone arm and different plater?

[02audionoob]

The Debut III has the motor hanging on a rubber ring, like Pro-Ject has been doing for a long time. The instructions were to remove the transport screws from the motor mount flanges.

With the Carbon, Pro-Ject put Sorbothane grommets under the motor mount flanges and screwed them down, with no instruction to remove the screws.

[bob r]

i agree with 02audiono and i was not the one that had remove them in the first place
if i would of order it from the needle doctor i would of had the TT way before the store did as i have said i did wait over 3 months just because i wanted to do business in my own city and to have the in person experience

I would of read the instruction and as you have stated they don't tell you to remove them

And now i am wondering if i have over tighten the screws so far i have only snugged them down so far in fear over tightening them
( keeping on the safe side)

i have sent them another E-mail and asked them to send me a new motor because on the phone they offered to do it and i will put it in maybe but i want to run it first to see if it feels better to the touch

i feel like this should of not happen and feel like i am on some kind of mission

Thanks to all that have replied to this Thread you all have helped me a lot

Peace from the front line's
Bob

[bob r]

Thanks to all of you they are going to send me another Motor so that i can put in in myself
do any one of you know how to do it or could somebody let me know How to?

thanks again

Bob

[02audionoob]

Check out this thread -

The MMF-5 is back in action

[bob r]

heres the update i have the new motor i have not put it in as of today had some other things to do

thanks for the link am sure it will help and it doesn't seam to hard at all the store had offered to do the work but i am going to Waite until the end of this month
to see what they may do about giving me a new table as they have said they would

[02audionoob]

The problem could perhaps be related to how the motor suspension is installed. I don't really know--just a possibility. If that turned out to be the case, having one professionally repaired might be better than new.

[allanc]

My first turntable in years, a new Pro-ject Debut Carbon, hums way too much. It is almost positively motor vibration. The hum occurs only when the stylus is touching the record, even with the belt removed (record not turning), and only when the motor is turned on. Lift the tone arm or turn off the motor and the hum goes away.

My dilemma is whether to reject the table as defective and send it back or to try some form of vibration fix. Also, maybe all tables of this make / model have the same problem and I should look for a refund rather than a replacement?

Can one of the experts give me some advice? Thanks!

[02audionoob]

My first turntable in years, a new Pro-ject Debut Carbon, hums way too much. It is almost positively motor vibration. The hum occurs only when the stylus is touching the record, even with the belt removed (record not turning), and only when the motor is turned on. Lift the tone arm or turn off the motor and the hum goes away.

My dilemma is whether to reject the table as defective and send it back or to try some form of vibration fix. Also, maybe all tables of this make / model have the same problem and I should look for a refund rather than a replacement?

Can one of the experts give me some advice? Thanks!

Ask the dealer if it is acceptable for you to attempt to fix it without voiding your return or warranty rights. Then before you return it, try adjusting how tightly the mounting flanges on the motor are screwed down. Adjust them so they barely compress the soft washers, and then try a little more tightening and a little less. If none of that works, adjust the screws around the suspension ring, to try to reduce how much the ring is contacting the deck. Maybe also try wedging a little piece of felt under the ring to change the tension of it. I've been wondering why some experience this and some don't.

[bob r]

Thanks you seam to always post replies that make a lot of sense i think the first thing i will do is run the motor alone or without mounting it to the TT (suspension)

It would be nice if the Store where i brought it from would be a little more helpful
and concerned as i have posted the TT they have hocked up and on display when you walk thought the front door still has the rubber things missing and the mounting screws out and you can surely fell the vibration when you touch the tone arm

Even after the salesman and his manager told me to put them back inn and putting them back really did help a lot it my opinion.

02audiono has maid some great points and somethings for us to think about and it's why i haven't done anything as of yet.

i do know one thing if they do what they say's and give me a new turntable i will unbox it at the store the first time i went in to buy the TT he did want me to take the TT they had on display saying it had only been playing for a few hours i would of never done that without a deep discount even then it would of had to be a Deep
one

I am one of what some may say (NUTS) about my Audio system and only a few have even touched the volume control most wouldn't know even how to turn the master power switch on because i have a PanaMax every thing powers up from that
with 3 second delays for the Amp's i will save the Questions i have for all of that in another Thread

back to the fix
I sure understand how allanc feels about his brand new TT because it was also my first TT in years and i waited over 3 months for the store to get them inn from
Pro-Ject.

i rushed home and begun playing my LP's i could even here the HUM/ noise in another room at that time i wasn't to worried because i knew it had to be the ground wire (easy fix) i thought

[bob r]

My Dilemma as well but i still think for the money it's still a great TT unless you have the money to upgrade but IMHO you would need to spend $200-$300 more

for me i would had to spend $1,000 dollars so another $600 and in that market you could get a very nice TT i just don't have the money

the Pro-ject Debut Carbon sounds great to me but that just may be because of the 2M Red for a little more then $100 you can't go wrong if money is the issue

allanc don't feel rained on we our only a few of many with the same problem it's all over the internet with people like us telling our story i am not bashing Pro-Ject

they do and have helped me if i where you i would send them a E-mail first letting them know

keep us all posted on what happens theirs lots of people here that will help

[02audionoob]

I would think running the motor without the belt or without the suspension ring would not be a good indication of how the motor will run when properly installed and stabilized by the ring and the belt. Those little motors are rather light, with a spinning magnet inside. It's no wonder (to me) they vibrate with the belt off.

[allanc]

I ran the turntable with the belt off as a debugging step trying to eliminate causes. Hum occurred with the belt on, too. I never did remove the suspension ring.

[allanc]

I've returned the table and am awaiting a replacement. I am almost certain that excessive motor vibration was the cause. I could hear it during the lead-in and during normal speech (first track of test record). It would stop just as soon as I lifted the stylus a tiny bit (likely not magnetic interference or electrical grounding as the causes) or turned off the motor (likely not table bearings since the table slowed but didn't immediately stop).

[02audionoob]

My reference to running it without the suspension ring was in reference to bob r's plan to run his new motor without installing it on the ring.

Based on the fact that by far the most common problem people have written about in the forums is a motor vibration issue, it makes perfect sense that it's the same problem with yours. It would be a shocker if it wasn't. I suspect it must be a somewhat delicate operation getting those motors set up right in the turntable factory, and perhaps some of their technicians are not doing it quite right -- just my guess.

[frenchmon]

My motor does not touch the plinth whatsoever. But yesterday I fired up my TT and what do I hear? A slight hum. Looked at my motor and it was touching the table. I then remembered I slightly moved the table and didn't notice it slid a little and touched the table. I move it back and hum completely silent. I wonder if they could detach the motor in the Debute completely from that table.

[bob r]

could you please tell me if the motor mount screws and or if the rubber things were removed by the dealer

In my case the dealer removed the two screws (they say where for shipping purpose ) and left the rubber things in place i have still not gotten a strait Answer from Sumiko weather or not the screws should have been removed and or the rubber things should of been removed

What they did say was witch ever way made less Vibration and at the Dealer their display TT the same one we both have the screws and the rubber things were out even after they told me to put them back in

as my other Reply say's they had already removed the two screws
the day i brought it home and left the rubber things in-place when i went back they told me to remove them
it would be very helpful to me and a lot of others that have the same problem if i knew what your dealer told you about your TT

1. Question did your dealer remove the motor mount screws before you left the store?
2. Did they also remove the two rubber things under the motor mount?
3. Did you contact Sumiko by E-mail or phone?

Thank you in advance
theirs so many people on the internet that would like to know

Did anyone tell you as they did me that theirs a new TT model coming out in June or July from them because they told me that if i wanted to trade up i would be disappointed by not waiting on the new model

[bob r]

Am sorry what part is the plinth? Is that the part with the long rubber O-Ring on it?
thanks

[02audionoob]

The confusion about the screws and the rubber washers most likely comes from the fact that the previous Debut did not have the rubber washers. It did have the screws and the instructions were to remove them when you set up the turntable. Removing the screws isolates the vibrating motor from the plinth.

The new design attempts to isolate the motor vibration from the plinth without removing the screws. That's what the rubber washers are for. If your dealer recommends removing the rubber washers, he either is wrong in his understanding of Pro-Ject's design and instructions or he disagrees with them.

Regarding frenchmon's suggestion that Pro-Ject might be able to completely detach the motor -- I think the Music Hall MMF-5 does a nice job of getting very close, while using the same motor.

[bob r]

I suspect it must be a somewhat delicate operation getting those motors set up right
And that is why i haven't tried doing it myself as of yet i am going to wait a few more days
Thanks for all your help so far

[frenchmon]

Bob r...so whats up with your table now?

[bob r]

Bob r...so whats up with your table now?

Thanks for asking

about two weeks ago i did call the store to ask them that same thing they told me
To come on inn we have a new Table for you so i packed the TT up and had it in the car

then they called back and said don't bring it inn because the new TT had came from the same batch as the one i have

so i brought it back inn and set it back up But something must have happen because now i get no Bass coming from the left channel of my M&K Sub i do have two Subs (M&K) at first i said something is not hocked up right

so i checked the wires again seamed OK so i then put the C.D player on and every thing worked just fine so i called them back and told them

they said thats just the way TT are but i had never noticed it before

as i understand it Bass has no left and right if thats true then why would the Sub work with a CD playing

when i play LP'S i can touch the driver of the sub and feel nothing from it (left channel) and the right channel is pumping just fine

Has anyone had this happen to them?

Maybe it was like that before i don't no

[allanc]

The saga continues for me, also. I've just received a replacement TT and will set it up in the next few days. What's this about the "same batch"? Is there someone that knows about a bad batch? If yes, how does one identify that they've got one of those? Good luck!